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I was kind of excited at the brief possibility of Angela and the 7K teaming up when she warned them they were being duped. Just briefly recaptured the “holy poo poo, where are we going with this?” energy of the first few episodes
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Dec 17, 2019 00:33
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:when it's pretty much universally accepted that the show had 6-7 great eppies, 2-3 stink bombs, and didn't quire nail the landing. Outside of nerds in this thread, where else have you seen that?
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Dec 17, 2019 00:34
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:
You're the guy who said he needs to acknowledge the show sucked.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:34
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The Ninth Layer posted:You're the guy who said he needs to acknowledge the show sucked. 
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Dec 17, 2019 00:35
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Bushido Brown posted:Outside of nerds in this thread, where else have you seen that? Talking to other human beings! The Ninth Layer posted:You're the guy who said he needs to acknowledge the show sucked. I'm not sure where you get that. I don't even think the show sucked! It was pretty decent.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:37
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I'm not trying to be condescending You're doing a really funny impression of a condescending person then? Your entire post was saying I have bad taste ("it is an Admirable Trait to be easily pleased") so giving you the benefit of the doubt either you're accidentally being a prick, or you're trying to be a prick and then putting on an affable demeanor to cover it up. I didn't even say "DEBATE ME, COWARD" I literally just said that nobody has to acknowledge a show is bad just because you and some other people say it is, it doesn't matter what the "consensus" is. Hell, I didn't even say whether I liked the show/episode, I literally just said that you weren't making an actual argument. The Ninth Layer posted:You're the guy who said he needs to acknowledge the show sucked. Right??
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Dec 17, 2019 00:37
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Niwrad posted:The racial stuff turned out to be a red herring. The 7K were just pawns and wiped out easily by a super laser within seconds (by someone who had no beef with them). Hooded Justice, Tulsa Riots, 7K, masked cops acting like fascists was just tossed aside at the end to make it about Trieu, Manhattan and Viedt. People who weren't important characters for most of the series. “Racists with grievances are often pawns of the super-rich who want to rule the world? What the gently caress does that have to do with modern American society? Lex Luthor bullshit.” Maybe Dr Manhattan looking directly into the camera and saying “Even I do not have the power to end racism, the scourge of humanity” Is more your speed. Real Gorilla Grodd stuff when the Watchmen World racists abandon their electoral ploy in favor of violence and trying to fix the rules of the world so they can never lose. Where oh where do the writers get this stuff? (The news, pal).
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Dec 17, 2019 00:39
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Sleeveless posted:The Boys is a show about a mediocre white guy who is radicalized into becoming a genocidal terrorist because a black drug addict murders his girlfriend and it's portrayed as not only justified but heroic, it's exactly the kind of regressive garbage masquerading under a veneer of paper-thin wokeness people accused Watchmen of being and if you're willing to excuse that because it couches it in a protective ironic layer of quippiness and gore then that says more about you than any failings of this show. Its actually about the same thing every Garth Ennis work is: "dick jokes are funny and superheroes are gay lol" Also the characters in the show say that the black drug addict is bad and per your own review of watchmen a character kinda halfassedly saying a theme is enough so yes, they are equally good shows? I'm trying to meet you on your own terms here.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:40
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Talking to other human beings! Sure... Just a bit odd to me that "universally" people think the last three episodes sucked. Except the critics. And the people ITT who disagree with you. To match your anecdote, my experience includes people claiming it was the greatest season of TV, ever (which is laughably wrong). It seems to me that a certain type of nerd got really upset at the Calhattan reveal, but generally, otherwise, people liked the show, including the ending.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:42
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Each egg in the carton represents a portion of manhattans power. Since she only ate one she will be much less powerful but therefore also more human and less prone to paralyzing alienation. Becoming a full on abrahamic god is too much to bear but the powers of a minor greek good is more manageable. Ofc Jon knew she would throw the carton on the floor and ruin most of the eggs. That`s why he goaded her by saying "watch the eggs". There is also going to be conspiracy theory that Veidt did`nt kill himself about two weeks after the show ended. No one can track down the police officers who arrested him or the infamous "squid tape" which only adds to the mystery. Topher is going to grow up to become a masked vigilante just like his super-mom. If there is a season 2 let that be the premise.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:42
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Guy A. Person posted:You're doing a really funny impression of a condescending person then? Your entire post was saying I have bad taste ("it is an Admirable Trait to be easily pleased") so giving you the benefit of the doubt either you're accidentally being a prick, or you're trying to be a prick and then putting on an affable demeanor to cover it up. Ah, you think I was saying "i need people to acknowledge that the show was bad" I was telling sleeveless that he was missing the mark in his posts. He was pointing out similarities between the show and comic and I was trying to tell him "[if you're trying to refute people's problems with the show" you need to acknowledge [their argument that] it wasn't very good, not that it was too dissimilar to the source material" The rest of your beef, idk, feels like projection. I don't think you have bad taste or are stupid or whatever. Anyway, I give the show a solid 7 so if that's a high enough score to make us allies then that's cool and good
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Dec 17, 2019 00:46
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General Dog posted:I was kind of excited at the brief possibility of Angela and the 7K teaming up when she warned them they were being duped. Just briefly recaptured the “holy poo poo, where are we going with this?” energy of the first few episodes yeah, i never bought that for a second, keen and the rest of the rorscach chuds are dumb as poo poo and fully believe their own bullshit(just like real life) so of course they don't believe the truth.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:48
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Baudolino posted:Each egg in the carton represents a portion of manhattans power. Since she only ate one she will be much less powerful but therefore also more human and less prone to paralyzing alienation. Becoming a full on abrahamic god is too much to bear but the powers of a minor greek good is more manageable. Ofc Jon knew she would throw the carton on the floor and ruin most of the eggs. That`s why he goaded her by saying "watch the eggs". Since Manhattan can't see anything but his own future and past he was really banking on that egg thing working out and not one of the kids accidentally eating or them throwing it away or something It's also good that the family didnt own a dog
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Dec 17, 2019 00:51
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Barry Convex posted:Alan Moore: Superheroes are bad because they're inherently fascistic He is so embarrassing
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Dec 17, 2019 00:51
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Man people can never be pleased. If someone isn't woke he's a chud but if he is he is a super fake woke lib.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:57
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Skyarb posted:Man people can never be pleased. If someone isn't woke he's a chud but if he is he is a super fake woke lib. I dunno, I feel like there have been tons and tons of posts that were neither about the show being perfect or being garbo. It's like the meta commentary from Will Reeves at the end, "coulda done a little better"
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Dec 17, 2019 01:01
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I'm still really struggling with the fact that Trieu's plans basically got defeated by bad weather. It's like, by subverting the thing in Watchmen where the villain has made sure their plan is already foolproof, they basically reverted this show's villains exactly into "republic serial villains" who love monologues and are defeated in the last moment by a bunch of plucky do-gooders.
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Dec 17, 2019 01:02
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Ah, you think I was saying "i need people to acknowledge that the show was bad" This is a fair argument and makes sense, sorry for the misunderstanding quote:The rest of your beef, idk, feels like projection. I don't think you have bad taste or are stupid or whatever. Well, again, if I were giving you the benefit of the doubt I don't really understand how I was supposed to interpret the line about being "easily pleased", especially in context of the rest of the post where you feign embarrassment that someone was "still making this post" But since now you're psycho-analyzing me over the internet I think I have my answer, so thanks for that
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Dec 17, 2019 01:30
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This show broke the cardinal rule of television which is that you never get to the fireworks factory. All of the problems stem from Dr. Manhattan being anything more than a video on mars. It could have been about two factions racing to create their own version of Dr. M and both failing miserably in the process and it wouldn't have lost a single thing that made it fun to watch.
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Dec 17, 2019 01:41
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I thought this show was garbage personally
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Dec 17, 2019 01:44
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I was disappointed that there was no real interaction between Dr M and Laurie in the final episode. There seems like there would be something interesting to explore between Laurie/M/Abar but it never materialized.
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Dec 17, 2019 01:45
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I think like 2 of my friends watched this show. None of my coworkers even cared or never heard of it. Anecdotal but yeah
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Dec 17, 2019 02:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFNAxCIGcEs
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Dec 17, 2019 02:33
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Whatever you think of the show, Lube Man was definitely handled perfectly
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Dec 17, 2019 02:43
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I think like 2 of my friends watched this show. None of my coworkers even cared or never heard of it. Anecdotal but yeah I'm absolutely stunned that this show has done as well actually has given that it's billed as a sequel to a comic book from 30 years ago and pretty much throws you into the deep-end. Sounds like HBO would love a second season. quote:More impressively, HBO estimates Watchmen’s cumulative audience currently stands at more than 7 million viewers per episode, including replays and delayed digital viewing. That’s the best first season of a fall HBO series since Westworld’s freshman cycle three years ago, and the most-watched first season of any HBO original since Big Little Lies bowed in February 2017.
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Dec 17, 2019 03:00
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Disappointing. If the true emotional crux of your show is Angela and Dr. Manhattan's romance, why would you: 1) make their relationship a late-season twist 2) give barely one episode to depict their dynamic 3) have Angela fall in love with Dr. M off-screen 4) it all felt very contrived 5) the Cal and Angela scenes aren't even especially touching or moving The other main plot point was "stopping Lady Trieu before she becomes all-powerful!!" This was also disappointing because the show didn't really do enough to convince me she was a bad guy who urgently needed to be stopped; all we really got was that Veidt says she's bad  If the ultimate point is that no one should have Dr. Manhattan's powers, the show undermines itself by presumably giving those powers to Angela, a hyper-violent and impulsive cop.Episode 5 was my favorite of the season because it showed me what a decent sequel to Watchmen should be about : folks trying to grapple with the events of 1985, building a world in response to the physical and emotional damage it caused, and having the carpet pulled under their feet when they discover the truth. Episode 6 was great also for cleverly recontextualizing a character that previously was just "strong gay kinky man!" It simply is too bad that the show veered into territory that it could not possibly cover adequately in the span of 2 episodes, and which does not build on the high points that the show set for itself. Jay-V fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 03:17
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This show was amazing, all hail King Damon.
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Dec 17, 2019 03:31
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I respect the ideas of the show and what it was trying to achieve regardless if it failed or not but Damon Lindelof comes across in interviews as really awfully cringy ultra Liberal woke to the point where he's almost falling into that stereotype of the overly woke bro that you later find out was using his wokeness to creep on women and other heinous poo poo. It just comes across as incredibly forced. What I'm saying is I wouldn't be shocked if some creepy stories about him ever come out. Also i really wanted the end to be a cut away followed by a splash and one last "Motherfucker" from Angela. Edit: not far left, ultra Liberal is more accurate Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 03:37
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Jay-V posted:Episode 6 was great also for cleverly recontextualizing a character that previously was just "strong gay kinky man!" He was also a Russian, misogynist fascist with no empathy. Not bad for a character with one line. Look, it's a clever choice, but I don't think the episode makes it commensurate with the original work. We get an apologia for the fascism, but a) that's less interesting that him being fascist and also black, and b) I feel uncomfortable about white washing the character while also making the character black, and yeah, I recognise the irony in those words. I'm uncomfortable with any Watchmen adaptation featuring perfect (or at least, only marginally flawed) supes. Capes aren't good people. Watchmen's Capes are cultural imperialist arseholes with a legacy inherently tied to acts of oppression. The idea of Trieu, a capitalist oligarch with more money than God and an obsession with dynasty, makes a more compelling Watchmen Cape, and she's basically a cypher. But then again, so many Watchmen capes were. Just Chamber posted:Damon Lindelof comes across in interviews as really awfully cringy far left woke I... who? what do these words mean to you?
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Dec 17, 2019 03:38
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Wow that finale was surprisingly boring and terrible. Lindelof gonna Lindelof I guess. When the credits rolled I honestly was confused about whether there was another episode that was the real finale.
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Dec 17, 2019 03:43
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Despite my last post, I am still compelled to perform a victory lap over my multiple accurate predictions.Jay-V posted:Did anyone already mention this w/r/t Hooded Justice? Angela repeatedly asks Will, “Who are you? Who are you?” And in American Hero Story, HJ repeatedly says something like “So who am I? Who am I?” Jay-V posted:Eggs sure do seem to be important to this narrative, huh Jay-V posted:Wow good catch on his name. Also, "Excalibur" is the name of Laurie's Dr. Manhattan dildo. So you have: Jay-V posted:Per Peteypedia: Jay-V posted:Some more predictions and observations from yours truly, The One Who Knew Cal Was Dr. Manhattan: (nothing else in this last post was accurate  )
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Dec 17, 2019 03:49
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Finished it; it wasn't bad by any means and sure worth watching if you care at all about the IP. I was hoping for a larger scope than what they focused on. And I didn't like the Lady Trieu performance at all. Actually I didn't like Jeremy Irons take on Veidt either. Overall good but weaknesses abound.
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Dec 17, 2019 03:49
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Jay-V posted:5) the Cal and Angela scenes aren't even especially touching or moving https://tv.avclub.com/watchmen-composes-the-greatest-love-story-ever-told-1840286252
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Dec 17, 2019 03:53
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Show good, story good. Spooky Tooth good, NiN soundtrack good. I am satisfied.
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Dec 17, 2019 03:55
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Just Chamber posted:Damon Lindelof comes across in interviews as really awfully cringy far left woke to the point where he's almost falling into that stereotype of the overly woke bro that you later find out was using his wokeness to creep on women and other heinous poo poo. It just comes across as incredibly forced. Open Source Idiom posted:
Happened irl maybe thats why you missed it
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Dec 17, 2019 03:55
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Open Source Idiom posted:He was also a Russian, misogynist fascist with no empathy. Not bad for a character with one line. Yeah I was pretty flippant and I respect this POV. Ep 6 is great if you're bought into Will Reeves as a character and you think his story was paid off. Obviously that's a big "if." Taken by itself, the HJ of Watchmen '85 definitely contributes to a strong thesis it has about the worship of superheroes and authority figures in general. edit: Zaphod42 posted:https://tv.avclub.com/watchmen-composes-the-greatest-love-story-ever-told-1840286252 Two points: 1) I meant the pre-reveal "Cal and Angela" scenes in episodes 1-7 2) Yes, I read that review when it came out and simply disagree with the writer. Angela's love of Dr. M feels like the writers just needed it to happen for plot reasons, not because it was an organic, natural relationship. Jay-V fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 03:58
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Open Source Idiom posted:I... who? what do these words mean to you? This show has always felt to me like he decided to show the world just how aware he is of racism and how bad it is in a really ineffectual and eye rolling way that would fit in with any cringy college kids first screenplay where it's good guys vs racism. The stuff he does well is the weird out there poo poo like Veidt on Europa but any time anything to do with race showed up on the show it was so eye rollingly bad, which is fine as its a comic book story but you read the interviews with Lindelof and he comes across like he believes he's genuinely tackled the subject in a deep and meaningful way. Personally I think the show feels very much how a white person would write a race revenge fantasy story, like I would honestly love to know how diverse the writers room was, judging by Wikipedia not very at all and imo this material needed it. There's a lot of stuff in there that on paper could be very powerful, like making Dr Manhattan a black man, but in execution was ultimately hollow and meaningless. It was there for people to clap at rather than to make people think or tell a very powerful story. Also i acknowledge my comments about him being a creep was very harsh. I think it comes from seeing too many super Liberal white guys on twitter outed as creeps and phonies. Also yes he's not far left but he's trying so hard to be ultra Liberal. Wolf in sheep's clothing indeed. I don't trust Hollywood types.
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Dec 17, 2019 04:02
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Comparing the left-fieldiness of the show's finale to "veidt summon squid, so good" is disingenuous or shallow, I think. The novel's entire run is overshadowed by this looming fear and anxiety of the modern world and the cultural, moral, and actual apocalypses it seemed to guarantee. Then, at the oft-referenced eleventh hour a new, audacious, somehow more terrible yet more acceptable apocalypse is revealed. The squid isn't some random shock panel, it's the integral climax to the entire tone and theme of the novel. And that's not even taking into account all the direct foreshadowing and references embedded in the narrative, itself. I don't believe that "Trieu's millennium clock is secretly a cyber-materia that siphons out dr. manhattan's power after she dupes the red skull-kkk" hits that same level of resonance when compared to all the show's material on eggs, identity, appropriation, historical revisionism, etc without a very generous reading of the season as a whole. It feels as though the heavier, better ideas were really flexed early on, then the show began to become a reductionist/rushed treatment of itself.
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Dec 17, 2019 04:05
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Just Chamber posted:I would honestly love to know how diverse the writers room was, https://gen.medium.com/damon-lindelof-heard-some-hard-truths-in-the-watchmen-writer-s-room-24101b6c11b7 ETA: lol, just lol, at how easy some of y'all make this
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Dec 17, 2019 04:07
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Adrian coaching Dr M on how his black face is a lil problemeatic was a good bit Oh gently caress, are they deleting the peteypedia in 24 hours??? Is that what that meant??!
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Dec 17, 2019 04:07
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