UKMT General Elexmas 2019 - casually eating surstromming

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justcola: May 22, 2004; La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Jel Shaker posted:

It�s going to take 3-4 elections for people to learn the lesson that the Lib Dem�s split the votes on the left

that's why I'm going to canvas for the Lib Dems and start shouting about skills wallets and raising tuition fees.

I'm trying to find an alternative news source to the guardian, Al Jazeera is okay but I want more regional stuff like 'otter found in shed'

e: A sign saying �350m on the side of a bus is all you need to govern a country for ten years.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 11:50

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# ? May 25, 2024 01:16

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

I would love to watch a movie about the Jo Swinson campaign, hubris out of the blocks (I will be PM with 300 MPs), sneaky �winning here� lies then a couple hundred of voters deciding that no, squirrelpocalypse isn�t a good policy

# ? Dec 18, 2019 11:51

RockyB: Mar 8, 2007; Dog Therapy: Shockingly Good

Rik Mayall is trending because Johnson has, surprise surprise, broken his promise about the nursing bursery.

https://twitter.com/Gavoth/status/1204770150232268800

E: Specifically he's bought the bursary back... but it's 4k less than tuition fees. Where the old bursary was cash and no fees.

https://news.sky.com/story/first-victory-in-campaign-to-restore-student-nurse-grants-11889437

RockyB fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Dec 18, 2019

# ? Dec 18, 2019 11:58

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Braggart posted:

Jose posted:
lmao i don't think i've ever seen this

https://twitter.com/Faduma_LDN/status/1207008916812509185?s=20

Ooh, a Lib Dem dodgy bar chart in cake form

Edit: I'm exhausted, but perhaps someone else could make a bar chart out of cake in the Photoshoppe?

We polled a pub bathroom and found more urinal cakes than any other kind! Red velvet cake can't win here!

By the way, that blue ain't food colouring...

"Only cake can win here."

We'll cake the red flag flying here!

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:01

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

justcola posted:

that's why I'm going to canvas for the Lib Dems and start shouting about skills wallets and raising tuition fees.

I'm trying to find an alternative news source to the guardian, Al Jazeera is okay but I want more regional stuff like 'otter found in shed'

e: A sign saying �350m on the side of a bus is all you need to govern a country for ten years.

Speaking of which, are there any good twitter follows of journalists and other people in UK politics who aren�t either toxic centrists or like sectarian Marxists? Not that there�s anything wrong with sectarian Marxists but here in the US I feel like there is a sort of middle space that doesn�t really seem to in the UK. Even centist/non-Left commentators like Dave Weigel or Eric Levitz at New York Magazine don�t harbor the deep hatred of the left that most of your centrist commentariat seem to

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:03

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

there's a Novara interview with Ian Lavery up; he seems like a sound lad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINkzhnHljI

brian posted:

imo (which i will not expand on because i'm lazy and hate posting) the labour party is done as having any route towards implementing socialism and will be neutered by the same endless appeasing of the right that's marked its entire history (inc corbyn), even if it's the left most candidate they won't perform any of the democratisation or frankly, purging that needs to be done, none of them will push the party towards local community service building and probably continue the long history of underfunding CLP driven initiatives in that vein. On a vaguely accelerationist bent though I also don't think we'll be talking about electoralism in the same way in 5-10 years when the great climate migration starts hitting, although i'm pretty pessimistic about there being much of a left uprising with how unions have been defanged of their community integration over the years. To me corbyn was the last chance for saving liberal capitalist 'democracy' from itself and he bet it all on winning power over fixing the party and I'm not sure I blame him for that, there probably wasn't time.

I'm not optimistic. The Purpose Of A System Is What It Does, and what's Labour's purpose? Top-down electoralism and compromise are what the organisation has evolved around, and not movement-building for all the claims of it. Any organisation that's been around that long has developed mechanisms to resist change, it's going to be incredibly difficult to push the party out of its present equilibrium. Maybe Momentum could achieve something, but imo it's too heavily-integrated into Labour, so it's just going to be subject to the same pressures from the Labour Party structures. I'd say that any "reform" to the party that achieves what the left needs results in something that isn't the Labour Party any more - it'd be an internal revolution.

Dreading what climate change will do to our options, frankly

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:06

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Lavery apparently nicked money meant for miners who got sick from t'pits to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds. Seems former miners are rather pissed at him for it.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:11

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

oh for gently caress's sake

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:16

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

This is the time to change the Labour Party. We can't particularly affect the government for the next few months, so I think the Left should tighten its grip on the party apparatus. Make it stronger and more useful for future opportunities.

I also agree with the non-parliamentary outreach ideas people have mooted. Demonstrate that the left is a force for good at a local level. Build trust and enthusiasm that way. Let's build for the next big battle.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:16

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Today in why the Liberal Democrats should all be shoved in a thresher https://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1207249599443767296?s=20

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:21

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

Now, as ever, gently caress Yvette Cooper

centrists first choice posted:

And that is not a left/right issue, and this is where both the Jeremy Corbyn and Tony Blair challenge comes in, because both the left and the right of our party are seen as internationalist, not patriotic, at the moment.

And that might not be fair, but it is how they are seen. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Tony Blair are seen as internationalist, not patriots, and we should be able to be both patriotic and outward looking because that�s what we were in 1945.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:47

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Kinder, Kirche, Kooper.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:48

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Both Corbynite internationalism (helping people abroad) and Blairite internationalism (massacring people abroad) are equally bad.

I, Yvette Cooper, stand for isolationism or something!

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:49

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

SAY SORRAY JEHREHMRHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Seriously, I can't look at the news anymore. Probably a good thing.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:50

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

forget the Olympics, back to THE WAR

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:51

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Outward looking at themmuns over there from behind her wall of sandbags.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:52

minema: May 31, 2011

As well as not covering tuition fees any more, the NHS bursary only applies to nurses now, not any of the other AHPs as it previously did.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 12:53

Bobstar: Feb 8, 2006; KartooshFace, you are not responding efficiently!

Bit late, but Michael Rosen is a national treasure, and I'd really like for him, Corbyn and Billy Bragg to hang out together and be beardy and lefty.

(This is where someone tells me Billy Bragg is HGM. I'm fairly sure Michael Rosen isn't)

vvv that's what I could have done with on Friday. I could only find the Brexit variant.

Bobstar fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Dec 18, 2019

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:02

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

https://twitter.com/ZeeZeeMooMoo/status/1207037514290270210?s=19

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:05

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

Bobstar posted:

Bit late, but Michael Rosen is a national treasure, and I'd really like for him, Corbyn and Billy Bragg to hang out together and be beardy and lefty.

(This is where someone tells me Billy Bragg is HGM. I'm fairly sure Michael Rosen isn't)

vvv that's what I could have done with on Friday. I could only find the Brexit variant.

Pretty sure he was in the SWP for ages before he left ovee comrade delta

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:20

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

I wonder if it would be finically more sensible to go to one of the nursing schools in the Philippines and just come back to work in the NHS , similar to how failson/daughter brits go to Romania for med school and (being a British National) trump those for training posts who studied in the U.K. while being foreign (boo! Hiss!)

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:23

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

Michael Rosen is the best and got canned by the BBC for being too left-wing and corrupting the youths

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:25

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

kustomkarkommando posted:

Pretty sure he was in the SWP for ages before he left ovee comrade delta

Yep. I mean, at least he left when they went from annoying to unredeemable.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:34

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

With his Premiership secure, Boris takes the opportunity to recognise all of his illegitimate children:

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:39

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/AmazonChique/status/1206601941955964933?s=20
https://twitter.com/SecretGamerGrrl/status/1206701297233276928?s=20

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:39

Ikwaylx: Aug 19, 2011; Drop the bandibass!

How come the SWP are unredeemable? I've always wondered this, I see posts on Facebook from some people who are members of SWP now and again. Is it some sort of problem with the leadership or what?

Sorry about my ignorance on the subject and all

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:40

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Ikwaylx posted:

How come the SWP are unredeemable? I've always wondered this, I see posts on Facebook from some people who are members of SWP now and again. Is it some sort of problem with the leadership or what?

Sorry about my ignorance on the subject and all

One of the senior leadership is a rapist. When the victim came forward, the leadership team circled the wagons and harassed her before kicking her out of the party, and punished anyone who brought it up. Led to a mass resignation from the party.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:43

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Tesseraction posted:

One of the senior leadership is a rapist. When the victim came forward, the leadership team circled the wagons and harassed her before kicking her out of the party, and punished anyone who brought it up. Led to a mass resignation from the party.

This, but also Trots & no one likes Trots. To quote Emma Goldman, "I admit, the dictatorship under Stalin's rule has become monstrous. That does not, however, lessen the guilt of Leon Trotsky as one of the actors in the revolutionary drama of which Kronstadt was one of the bloodiest scenes"

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:47

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

Has anyone got an easy list of reasons why Jess Phillips is terrible?

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:47

Ikwaylx: Aug 19, 2011; Drop the bandibass!

Tesseraction posted:

One of the senior leadership is a rapist. When the victim came forward, the leadership team circled the wagons and harassed her before kicking her out of the party, and punished anyone who brought it up. Led to a mass resignation from the party.

Well then, that's absolutely disgusting. Thanks for helping me understand

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:48

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Ikwaylx posted:

How come the SWP are unredeemable? I've always wondered this, I see posts on Facebook from some people who are members of SWP now and again. Is it some sort of problem with the leadership or what?

Sorry about my ignorance on the subject and all

An effortpost I found on another forum several years back is always useful at times like these.

quote:

OK, time for that big ol� SWP post. And boy, it is big.

First, let�s have some background. This is not the first time a scandal like this has hit a Trotskyite party. The predecessors of the Socialist Workers� Party, the Workers� Revolutionary Party, were effectively destroyed in 1985 when their leader and founder, Gerry Healy, was exposed as a serial rapist who�d abused his position to exploit over two dozen young, female recruits. Worse, the other WRP bigwigs had been covering for him, and some continued to do so after he was outed � most notoriously, Corin Redgrave of the Central Committee was asked whether he believed Healy was a rapist and replied by listing off the dude�s achievements and concluded with (I poo poo you not here) �If this is the work of a rapist, let�s hire more rapists.�

Another big scandal hit the American Socialist Workers� Party (same structure, same ideology, no relation) in 1988, when its rapid transformation into a paranoid, insular cult via a string of purges was interrupted by the arrest of one Mark Curtis. Curtis, a mid-ranking SWP member, was convicted of sexually assaulting a fifteen-year-old black girl in her own home. Her eleven-year-old brother had spotted him and called the cops, who literally caught him with his pants down. The SWP reacted to this in the most sensible, reasonable manner possible � by calling it a government conspiracy and mounting an enormous campaign for his release (before surreptitiously terminating his membership). So yeah, Trotskyite parties have a bit of a systematic problem with transparency, accountability, and teenagers getting raped.

Second, a bit of context on the SWP as an organisation. Long story short, it�s a hideously disorganised mess that can be (and has been) abused to hell and back. They have a �parliament�, the fifty-member National Committee, and a �cabinet�, the Central Committee, which consists of their most senior officers (in rank, not necessarily age), and currently has about eleven members. The National Committee meets every year, and theoretically supersedes the Central Committee, which handles the day-to-day running (or, more accurately, lumbering) of the party.

In practice, though, the Central Committee rules the party with an iron fist, presenting an eerily unified front even whilst they�re having screaming rows with each other behind closed doors (which apparently happens a lot). The other important bit is the Disputes Committee, a loose agglomeration of enforcers who deal with professional ethics within the party, have members of the Central Committee sent to join them when they�re adjudicating something serious. Everything else is a shapeless morass of temporary committees and tribal cliques who all hate each other�s guts.

Into this poisonous, volatile environment, the Comrade Delta incident was dropped like a hand grenade in a petrol tank.

The SWP membership first found out about this case in 2011, when they were told that a member of the Central Committee, called �Comrade Delta� to preserve his privacy, had broken up with the woman he was having an affair with (another SWP member named �Comrade W�) and had got into trouble for harassing her afterwards. They were assured that the Disputes Committee � which is, as I mentioned, an extension of the Central Committee Delta belonged to � would deal with this, and then the allegations were quietly glossed over as Delta gave a speech about the virtues of the SWP to carefully-choreographed rapturous applause.

There were a few problems with this. First, �Comrade W� had actually been seventeen years old when the fifty-year-old Delta started a relationship with her. Second, he hadn�t broken up with and stalked her two years later, he had raped her. Third, he wasn�t just a Central Committee member � he was Martin Smith, national secretary of the SWP.

Smith had a chequered history even before this incident. He had been arrested several times on antifascist marches, including for one incident of assaulting a police officer � though to be perfectly fair, the usual relationship between the police and left-wing protesters means that it�s unclear whether that assault was him being as thuggish in other fields as he reportedly is in the bedroom, or whether it was him recklessly and irresponsibly stopping a truncheon with his skull. More damningly, he had brought a lot of bad press to the party through his friendship with the rabidly anti-Semitic jazz musician Gilad Atzmon, which required him to break ties after a few years when the party started haemorrhaging money and members.

After the true extent of the allegations against Smith came to light, Atzmon ranted that it had all been a Jewish conspiracy to unseat the national secretary because of his love for jazz music. Bizarrely enough, this actually had some tenuous connection to reality. Several members of the Central Committee, including Smith, are big fans of jazz, to the point where failing to attend one of their scheduled jazz events, regardless of your musical tastes, will get you cautioned for disloyalty, which has had a predictable effect on party morale. Not only that, but getting rid of dissidents by expelling them on sexual harassment charges was actually a tactic taught to SWP organisers for a while (though it should be pointed out here that it was used by the party elite on low-level peons who dared to question their rightful rulers, and never the other way around).

As one might assume, the Disputes Committee �trial� was a farce. Even ignoring the patent ridiculousness of trusting the adjudication of a crime as serious as rape to a team of ideologically-attuned amateurs who only had the power to expel people from the party at most, the DC hearing was held, in its majority, by friends and co-workers of Smith. The age gap was dismissed as not being a concern, and the national secretary was cleared of all charges. He ate a demotion, and was told to lay low for a bit before his triumphant return to party politics, but that was it. Unlike her rapist, Comrade W was refused a chance to speak in public and give her side of the story.

Of course, you know how rape charges tend to encourage other victims to come forward? That�s what happened here. �Comrade X�, another SWP member, reported that she had also been raped by Smith. This evidence was withheld from the W trial despite coming out at the same time, X was asked some very insulting questions by the DC (�you like a bit to drink, right?�), and then she lost her job with the party. Other women also came forward with tales of harassment and abuse. They were all ignored.

Doubters were reassured that the DC knew what they were doing � they had handled nine rape cases previously. This did not reassure anyone, especially after it was revealed that a district organiser had beaten and raped a subordinate a short time after the Smith trial. The DC had given him a two-year suspension from the party as punishment, the same that had been given to the �Facebook Four� who had dared to criticise the party�s handling of the Smith case on the Internet. In contrast, one member had been expelled for life for suggesting the party set up a cultural magazine.

The consequence was open civil war. An attempt to reform the party at a special conference was only narrowly outvoted in a format that almost inevitably turns out unanimous decisions one way or the other despite every dirty trick the Central Committee tried to pull, including wheeling along the elderly wife of the party�s founder to a private faction meeting and explaining to her that the big bad rebels wouldn�t let her in.

Every seething resentment against the CC and DC bubbled up at once, from financial mismanagement to bullying to yet more incidents of sexual abuse, and mass resignations swiftly followed, resulting in the party losing a fifth of its two thousand members (perhaps a larger fraction, given the SWP�s habit of inflating its numbers) and three of the eleven CC officers. The CC�s complete failure to engage with or understand the Internet was a particular problem � every website they told members not to visit immediately encountered a massive traffic spike, and their desperate attempts to preserve their beloved secrecy (particularly in regards to Comrade Delta�s real name) were worse than useless.

Eventually, Smith resigned properly, and the DC agreed to hear Comrade X�s case, but the general consensus was that it was like rubbing disinfectant on a missing head. The damage had been done, and the reputation of them and their party had been irrevocably tainted.

Rape, cronyism, and party-mandated jazz. Welcome to the wonderful world of Trotskyite Communism.

Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Dec 18, 2019

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:49

Rarity: Oct 21, 2010; ~*4 LIFE*~

Also worth noting that the SWP will latch onto any protest or demonstration that people are doing and spam the crowd with signs to overamplify their presence.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:49

willie_dee: Jun 21, 2010; I obtain sexual gratification from observing people being inflicted with violent head injuries

Tesseraction posted:

One of the senior leadership is a rapist. When the victim came forward, the leadership team circled the wagons and harassed her before kicking her out of the party, and punished anyone who brought it up. Led to a mass resignation from the party.

God dammit.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:50

Rarity: Oct 21, 2010; ~*4 LIFE*~

Pesmerga posted:

Has anyone got an easy list of reasons why Jess Phillips is terrible?

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:50

willie_dee: Jun 21, 2010; I obtain sexual gratification from observing people being inflicted with violent head injuries

Darth Walrus posted:

An effortpost I found on another forum several years back is always useful at times like these.

Thats really good, thanks, it led me to here after some googling.

https://livesrunning.wordpress.com/2016/05/22/why-i-dont-buy-socialist-worker/

quote:

In the SWP, you will be told that this incident belongs to history, that the SWP has learnt from its mistakes. It hasn�t, the men and women who attempted to cover up a crime are all still in its leadership.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:56

BizarroAzrael: Apr 6, 2006; "That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

Pesmerga posted:

Has anyone got an easy list of reasons why Jess Phillips is terrible?

Off the top of my head:

Relentless self-promoter, often makes things about her
Stooge to Murdoch and co for favourable coverage
Pretends to be working class when her mum was a senior administrator in the NHS and owned a house in France
Frequently makes comments that could be read as anti Black (lists women in Labour but only white ones) and anti trans. Is also anti sex work
Hostile to traveller communities
Proudly claims to have told Diane Abbot to gently caress off, apparently a lie, which is weird as it seems racist if true
Frequently enters a meter radius of JRM, who remains unstabbed.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:57

Deketh: Feb 26, 2006; That's a nice fucking fish

I had to go on a serious news/media/thread blackout after the results, for the sake of my sanity I couldn't bear to see the second guessing and crowing and gloating of the victorious apparatus of the upcoming national suicide.
Took a look today and there's a loving war criminal still talking poo poo, what a surprise. Christ I hate the media.
I'd like to see Long-Bailey or Rayner at the top, I heard some mention of them running jointly as leader and deputy. As dark as things seem I don't want the left to throw the towel in. Whatever went wrong with strategy, whatever was inevitably deeply stacked against us, I still know where I want my Labour party to be because it's the right thing to do. Albeit with lessons well learned. I'm curious to see what Starmer does, I don't want him as leader but he does seem to be very palatable to the media.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 13:59

Rarity: Oct 21, 2010; ~*4 LIFE*~

Jessflaps is the epitome of white middle class feminism

# ? Dec 18, 2019 14:00

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

BizarroAzrael posted:

Off the top of my head:

Relentless self-promoter, often makes things about her
Stooge to Murdoch and co for favourable coverage
Pretends to be working class when her mum was a senior administrator in the NHS and owned a house in France
Frequently makes comments that could be read as anti Black (lists women in Labour but only white ones) and anti trans. Is also anti sex work
Hostile to traveller communities
Proudly claims to have told Diane Abbot to gently caress off, apparently a lie, which is weird as it seems racist if true
Frequently enters a meter radius of JRM, who remains unstabbed.

Diane Abbott has only said she doesn't remember Jess telling her to gently caress off, which is entirely understandable given how much poo poo she gets on a daily basis.

# ? Dec 18, 2019 14:00

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# ? May 25, 2024 01:16

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

quote:

In her memo to Mr Corbyn, Ms Thornberry wrote: �We need to ask the question, �What would we prefer? Boris Johnson in power for a few more months until a referendum, or Boris Johnson with a parliamentary majority for five years, and a mandate to do whatever else is on his anti-public services agenda?�

Her detailed memo said Mr Johnson had aimed from the start to force a �Brexit election� and unlike Theresa May in 2017 would succeed.

�Much as we might wish it, we must all realise that pattern will not be repeated this time around,� she wrote. �If we are honest, we know they will likely succeed in turning the general election into a simple choice on Brexit where Theresa May failed, not least because of the imminence of the decision, and the fact that it can genuinely be presented as a �crisis election�.�

well then

# ? Dec 18, 2019 14:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT General Elexmas 2019 - casually eating surstromming

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