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Synnr posted:It probably depends what, when, and where you mean exactly. Like as social movements in the West? Or like as revolutionary movements?
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Dec 17, 2019 18:46
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Wasn't that one of the first big divides in the Societ Union, ie do we export the Revolution or focus on ourselves first?
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Dec 17, 2019 18:58
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SlothfulCobra posted:Although they often fail to deliver at their split welfare/extermination policies. https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Beneficiaries-Plunder-Racial-Welfare/dp/0805087265 brugroffil posted:In some ways yes, but per thread favorite Wages of Destruction, the Nazis pretty quickly crushed their own internal labor supporters and abandoned work programs in favor of militarization. All the while getting big German businesses on board with the ending of parliamentary democracy. moreover, both are opposed to liberalism, pluralism, and the entire liberal idea of politics as policies you can debate rather than a life or death existential struggle. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 19:29
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Oberndorf posted:It was deliberately constructed to give it the talking points of the left and the right simultaneously. edit: If you all ever see something online calling itself "Third Position," that's fascist. "Third" if left wing and right wing are "first" and "second." Similarly for anything calling itself "metapolitics" or claiming to "get beyond politics" in general
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Dec 17, 2019 19:31
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The XVIII thing has made the Washington Post. I’d expect a genuine inquiry into it
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Dec 17, 2019 19:36
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FastestGunAlive posted:The XVIII thing has made the Washington Post. I’d expect a genuine inquiry into it i hope someone loses their job, not just for the nazism but for the anime fanart
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Dec 17, 2019 19:39
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Nessus posted:
Not as much as you would think. Ground contamination from lead is a problem if you’re talking shooting ranges and the like (although even there it’s easily mitigated by digging it out once every few years) but the real nasty poo poo from a shooters perspective is from the primers. Most modern primers use a lead compound for ignition, and that poo poo is the main thing to worry about, especially if you shoot a lot in poorly ventilated indoor ranges. Now all that changes with era of course. If you’re squatting over a camp fire and melting lead for musket balls then yeah you’re going to inhale some nasty fumes. Conversely if you were shooting with the primers they made before WW2 those didn’t use lead compounds so you’re not getting exposure that way.
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Dec 17, 2019 19:39
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HEY GUNS posted:i hope someone loses their job, not just for the nazism but for the anime fanart you can totally tell it is someone who thinks they're brilliant and witty and insightful and he/she gets increasingly irritated as the thread goes on and people don't recognize the spielberg-esque storytelling
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Dec 17, 2019 20:02
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zoux posted:You guys ever have a crackpot paper purporting to overturn decades of historical theory and research invade your specific areas. In my line of work we call these "judicial opinions."
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Dec 17, 2019 20:13
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HEY GUNS posted:edit: If you all ever see something online calling itself "Third Position," that's fascist. "Third" if left wing and right wing are "first" and "second." Similarly for anything calling itself "metapolitics" or claiming to "get beyond politics" in general Emmanuel Macron's party describes itself as "beyond politics". They're fascist?
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Dec 17, 2019 20:36
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Spacewolf posted:Emmanuel Macron's party describes itself as "beyond politics". They're fascist? Him, probably just a big ego and a small dog.
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Dec 17, 2019 20:54
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bewbies posted:you can totally tell it is someone who thinks they're brilliant and witty and insightful and he/she gets increasingly irritated as the thread goes on and people don't recognize the spielberg-esque storytelling Was it’s XVIII Corps or 10th Mountain, I feel like I saw the latter originally Either way 
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Dec 18, 2019 00:52
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Does anyone have a handy source for retaliations, revanchist reactions, or preventative measures in response to the Christmas truce in WWI?
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Dec 18, 2019 01:03
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HEY GUNS posted:moreover, both are opposed to liberalism, pluralism, and the entire liberal idea of politics as policies you can debate rather than a life or death existential struggle. (editor's note: this is not an endorsement of policies generally termed "liberal" in tyool 2019)
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Dec 18, 2019 01:07
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Spacewolf posted:Emmanuel Macron's party describes itself as "beyond politics". They're fascist? No. The thing is, while "Third Position" tends to be fascist, it shouldn't be confused with "Third Way" movements, which, while it originally started in the 60s among the Eurocommunists, sort of culminated in the 90s, with people like Blair in the UK and Clinton in the US, which is a centrist movement coming out of the left wing, which asks, "How do we accomplish left wing goals through market reforms. Macron is more in this mold. (Confusingly, there was actually a small Third Positionist party in France in the 80s called "Third Way", which took as its motto "Neither trusts nor soviets", and claimed that both communism and capitalism were Jewish plots to enslave the French worker).
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Dec 18, 2019 01:22
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Cyrano4747 posted:Not as much as you would think. Ground contamination from lead is a problem if you’re talking shooting ranges and the like (although even there it’s easily mitigated by digging it out once every few years) but the real nasty poo poo from a shooters perspective is from the primers. Most modern primers use a lead compound for ignition, and that poo poo is the main thing to worry about, especially if you shoot a lot in poorly ventilated indoor ranges. Not so much a problem for humans but one big reason lead shot has been banned in many places is that it's really bad for water birds. This is because dabbling ducks tend to swallow the shot and keep it in their gizzards to help grind up food, and end up getting severe exposure that way HEY GUNS posted:not the Old Right though, the Old right is monarchism and guys with vons in their names. This comes after the development of mass politics, and it's one reason why people joined new organizations like the SS, because they wanted a way to rise socially that older organizations might not let them. This is New Right...alt, if you will... one reason why I think it can become real difficult to describe political movements as fascist in the mid-late 20th century is that most of these third world dictatorial governments didn't really have a foundation in mass politics, but were instead founded by small conspiracies within the military. It means they have a very different kind of political base. However regardless of how they came to power there is often a clear influence on the political ideology and aesthetics of many of their leaders. Epicurius posted:No. The thing is, while "Third Position" tends to be fascist, it shouldn't be confused with "Third Way" movements, . oops 
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Dec 18, 2019 01:36
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CMS posted:Does anyone have a handy source for retaliations, revanchist reactions, or preventative measures in response to the Christmas truce in WWI? Nothing specific, it's the sort of thing that gets mentioned in passing in other books. You'll probably find some stuff in Fritz and Tommy, which I haven't got round to, but is by good people.
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Dec 18, 2019 02:19
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CMS posted:Does anyone have a handy source for retaliations, revanchist reactions, or preventative measures in response to the Christmas truce in WWI? Barthas says that after their little communist rally with the Germans, they were told that any unauthorized parties in no man's land would be fired on by artillery. No matter which side they were from.
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Dec 18, 2019 04:19
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sullat posted:Barthas says that after their little communist rally with the Germans, they were told that any unauthorized parties in no man's land would be fired on by artillery. No matter which side they were from. And so the tradition of nationalist hooligans throwing firecrackers and flares to the soccer field was born.
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Dec 18, 2019 13:27
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Our very own Ensign Expendable got a plug from Gun Jesus in his most recent video's description. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypn7UJvHNtM
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Dec 18, 2019 13:55
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Cessna posted:Was this as lethal as artillery? Of course not, but that's not the point - the primary role of the machinegun was to kill enemy troops; failing that, it forced them to halt their advance and go to ground / dig in. Once the enemy was halted the artillery could commence to methodically murdering them. I dunno if that was answered in the interim, but was artillery really that responsive in WWI, or is that if a major attack is on the way, shelling No Man's Land is enough to hit what you need to hit? Like I have the impression that arty wasn't really tactical back then.
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Dec 18, 2019 15:00
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JcDent posted:I dunno if that was answered in the interim, but was artillery really that responsive in WWI, or is that if a major attack is on the way, shelling No Man's Land is enough to hit what you need to hit? Like I have the impression that arty wasn't really tactical back then. Isn't this what mortars and Minenwerfers were for?
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Dec 18, 2019 15:21
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JcDent posted:I dunno if that was answered in the interim, but was artillery really that responsive in WWI, or is that if a major attack is on the way, shelling No Man's Land is enough to hit what you need to hit? Like I have the impression that arty wasn't really tactical back then. When I say "methodically murder" I'm not talking about a WWII style barrage where a FO attached to the infantry calls in spotting rounds and walks them onto a relatively small target in a matter of minutes; that wasn't really possible in WWI. But, that said, once a unit was pinned in place by machineguns it would be a very tempting target for enemy artillery fire; barrages would be planned and carried out. It won't happen quickly, but it will happen. Cessna fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 15:54
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zoux posted:
So, the origins of the Polish state, and the early history of the founding Piast dynasty, are not very well known. There are next to no written sources (and virtually none from inside the country). The generally accepted narrative is that the Piasts were locals who came to rule the Polanie tribe in and around the Gniezno area. From there, they conquered the other tribes of what is now known as Greater Poland (most likely by force, at least in most cases), and kept them in line by using their entrenched hillforts. Over the course of another generation or two, they continued the conquest of Lesser Poland, Masovia, Kuyavia, and Silesia. (There is a minor rogue theory that the Piasts themselves were rebellious Scandinavian mercenaries who overthrew local rulers and took power over the Polanie for themselves, but there is very little to support that claim.) What we know for pretty much certain is that they rule the aforementioned areas in 966, when Mieszko I agrees to baptise himself and his country, which is traditionally considered the beginning of Polish history. This is not in any great contention... ...aside from one archaeologist who is insanely insistent that none of it is true. In his view, the Piasts were actually Christian long before 966. Their conquest of Greater Poland and then the rest of the country was made possible because they were actually refugee lords from Great Moravia. They came north, fleeing the collapse of their country, and with their war parties conquered the local tribes, then the land. So, what is his fundamental proof for that theory? He researched a plank found in the doorstep of the Gniezno palatial chapel and found that it was cut down from a tree that grew before 966, so, CLEARLY, the baptism of Poland had to have been earlier. He goes to every single mediaevist conference in the country, talks about his bullshit, and elicits a round of exasperated sighs every single time.
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Dec 18, 2019 15:57
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His name wouldn't happen to be Heribert Illig, would it?
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Dec 18, 2019 16:11
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zoux posted:
Yeah, but in my field it got taken seriously until recently.
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Dec 18, 2019 17:25
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Yeah, but in my field it got taken seriously until recently. Which paper's this?
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Dec 18, 2019 18:37
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Hi friends new entry in the awesome ship names book, USCG vessel Found it in Mark Felton's Roundup of World War 2 ships still being used. Russia has a German WW2 floating crane still in use, and some type of submarine tender dating from the days of the Czar Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 18:42
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I've read horror stories about cannonballs that had to be oiled and maintained in army warehouses because some Tsarist quartermaster wrote "store indefinitely" on the label.
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Dec 18, 2019 20:23
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Ensign Expendable posted:I've read horror stories about cannonballs that had to be oiled and maintained in army warehouses because some Tsarist quartermaster wrote "store indefinitely" on the label. Supposedly the British army still has a few Crimean War-era Soyer stoves sitting around. Internet sources claim that most of them were lost in the sinking of the Atlantic Conveyor during the Falklands war. If anyone knows anything about the Soyer stove please post about them, as they are cool as hell. Here is a possibly unreliable blog post about them. https://calculating.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/forgotten-history-soyers-stoves/
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Dec 18, 2019 20:53
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While we're chatting about WWI again, how important was allied counter-battery efforts on the Western front in 1917-18? I seem to remember they invested a whole lot of effort into it but maybe I'm making that up.
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Dec 18, 2019 21:42
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Mr Enderby posted:Supposedly the British army still has a few Crimean War-era Soyer stoves sitting around. Internet sources claim that most of them were lost in the sinking of the Atlantic Conveyor during the Falklands war. Very cool! Not like the cannonballs at all though really, those stoves sound handy as hell vs a useless cannonball.
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Dec 18, 2019 21:58
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Useless? If you know of a better way to give yourself enormous metal testicles, I'm eager to hear it
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Dec 18, 2019 22:16
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In either the last iteration of this thread or the one before it, Desiderada wrote a series of effort posts on fascism. Does anybody have a link or remember which thread it was in?
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Dec 18, 2019 23:11
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Tevery Best posted:So, the origins of the Polish state, and the early history of the founding Piast dynasty, are not very well known. Look, we all know full well that the Poles come from the ancient Sarmatians 
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Dec 19, 2019 13:08
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Poles come from trees, unless they are made of metal.
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Dec 19, 2019 13:20
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Poles come from trees, unless they are made of metal. In our neck of the woods, juniper, it is very rot resistant
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Dec 19, 2019 13:46
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HEY GUNS posted:not the Old Right though, the Old right is monarchism and guys with vons in their names. This comes after the development of mass politics, and it's one reason why people joined new organizations like the SS, because they wanted a way to rise socially that older organizations might not let them. This is New Right...alt, if you will... Ah yes like Paul von Hindenburg, notable for installing Hitler as chancellor and signing the Enabling Act. Truly a stalwart antifascist. Hitler spoke to The Old Right, and they supported him in turn, because most of their aims were aligned. The monarchists' complaints were either interpersonal or aesthetic: they wanted their bloodthirsty ultranationalist at the top, with a pretty hat. They didn't want commoners in their old boys club. So loving what? They still leant themselves ably to war and genocide.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:21
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I love colorized old photos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibvXiQ64Ss here's a bunch of colorized old photos from the WWII era that are neat
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Dec 19, 2019 16:32
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Mr Enderby posted:Supposedly the British army still has a few Crimean War-era Soyer stoves sitting around. Internet sources claim that most of them were lost in the sinking of the Atlantic Conveyor during the Falklands war. Unfortunately I'm going to cast doubt on the Atlantic Conveyor story using another, cooler story. Quartermasters are not allowed to lose things. It is their job to know where things are. Sometimes quartermasters lose things and have to come up with a story of where they are so that the things they lose don't include their leave. Enter Atlantic Conveyor, which was loaded with such haste that nobody actually ever had a full manifest of what she went south with. She was still almost full when she went down and nobody is loving about on the bottom of the South Atlantic doing a stocktake. As a result just about every piece of British Army equipment that went missing between 1975-85 was noted down as lost on the Atlantic Conveyor, which was presumably at about ten times her rated displacement when she was hit. I would not be surprised if the stock of Soyer Stoves was slowly attrited from negligence, wastage, poorly driven armoured vehicles, theft, loss and bored squaddies between about 1946 and 1982 at which point every quartermaster in the Army independently arrived at the wizard wheeze of claiming that their Soyer Stoves were lost to enemy action, with the result that an incautious or credulous historian could well come to the conclusion that Atlantic Conveyor was carrying five Chinooks, a thousand feet of Marston Matting and the rest of the ship was full of Victorian cooking equipment.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:19
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