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Snow Cone Capone posted:Ok, so I have acquired access to TOS. Anything I should know going in? I have no idea what you do know, but it's some goofy poo poo that the rest of Star Trek mostly takes broad strokes from, watch with a laid back attitude by whatever means available to you. If you still have patience after it, TAS is probably an ideal followup.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:01
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Ok, so I have acquired access to TOS. Anything I should know going in? Original effects > HD effects
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Dec 18, 2019 18:03
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Ok, so I have acquired access to TOS. Anything I should know going in? It's better than a lot of fans suggest, but avoid most of season three.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:05
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CPColin posted:Original effects > HD effects They're blu-rays so I dunno if I have that option  Ghost Leviathan posted:I have no idea what you do know, but it's some goofy poo poo that the rest of Star Trek mostly takes broad strokes from, watch with a laid back attitude by whatever means available to you. If you still have patience after it, TAS is probably an ideal followup. I've watched DS9 a bunch of times, TNG a few times, and am mid-Voyager. I think watching Trials and Tribblations again finally pushed me to give TOS a shot.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:09
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:It's better than a lot of fans suggest, but avoid most of season three. No don't, watch everything, even the bad episodes. Then watch TAS. Snow Cone Capone posted:They're blu-rays so I dunno if I have that option Pretty sure the enhanced modern effects were created for the blu rays. Snow Cone Capone posted:I've watched DS9 a bunch of times, TNG a few times, and am mid-Voyager. It's really good OP, makes Voyager look like a pile of poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:17
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Snow Cone Capone posted:They're blu-rays so I dunno if I have that option The TOS blurays do that rare decent thing of giving you the choice of watching the original effects or the remastered effects.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:19
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MikeJF posted:They lightened up a bit after a few seasons, but early on, once they were past the first two or three episodes of TNG there was a deliberate mandate to avoid TOS in order to allow the show to build its own identity rather than just being forever only a sequel. They decided at the end of season 3 to relax that rule starting with Sarek. Even then, it was allegedly a huge battle just to mention that Sarek had a son (or that his son was Spock... now I'm fuzzy on which it was).
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Dec 18, 2019 18:20
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Ok, so I have acquired access to TOS. Anything I should know going in? The final episode in "All Our Yesterdays". There is no such thing as "Turnabout Intruder".
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Dec 18, 2019 18:22
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marktheando posted:Pretty sure the enhanced modern effects were created for the blu rays. They were created for re-broadcast on TV, back when high-def was still novel. Part of the reason they look cheap is because the effects company was under the gun to get them turned around quickly as they were still doing the CGI as episodes were being aired.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:23
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I don’t think the HD effects are all that bad because they inadvertently retained the slightly lovely look of the original effects. The blu-rays give you a choice anyway, just watch what you want. 
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Dec 18, 2019 18:26
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:They were created for re-broadcast on TV, back when high-def was still novel. Part of the reason they look cheap is because the effects company was under the gun to get them turned around quickly as they were still doing the CGI as episodes were being aired. Huh that's wild, I assumed it was gouging fans on blu ray box sets from the beginning. I'm surprised there was enough money to do the remaster from tv rights.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:30
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marktheando posted:Huh that's wild, I assumed it was gouging fans on blu ray box sets from the beginning. I'm surprised there was enough money to do the remaster from tv rights. It was kinda weird how they did it. They also remastered and aired all the popular and iconic episodes first, so by the end of it you had stuff from the bottom of the season 2/3 heap airing with maybe only two or three new effects shots.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:32
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I don’t think the HD effects are all that bad because they inadvertently retained the slightly lovely look of the original effects. Yeah, I love the TOS CGI because it looks like the kind of effects you'd see if the show had been made on a similarly shoestring budget and rapid turnaround in the 2000s. It would be weird to go from "we literally just glued a horn to a dog" to photorealistic models.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:34
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What was the deal there anyway, I had the impression that TOS was shot on film so it was relatively straightforward to remaster, unlike TNG which needed to have all the effects shots recomposited. Was there some practical issue with the existing TOS effects footage or was it just deemed too primitive for modern audiences?
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Dec 18, 2019 18:46
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Ok, so I have acquired access to TOS. Anything I should know going in? Don't listen to anybody else's opinion of which episodes are good or bad, just watch and form your own opinions. Also it sounds like you will have an interesting perspective, having seen all the newer ones first, if you feel like posting your thoughts after each one that would be cool.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:49
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Minidust posted:What was the deal there anyway, I had the impression that TOS was shot on film so it was relatively straightforward to remaster, unlike TNG which needed to have all the effects shots recomposited. Was there some practical issue with the existing TOS effects footage or was it just deemed too primitive for modern audiences? My guess would be "we have CGI now, add some" "but sir, why??" "BECAUSE IT'S THERE" e: I just watched a video of a comparison and while the space scenes are comparable, holy poo poo is this CGI bad: 
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Dec 18, 2019 18:50
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Minidust posted:What was the deal there anyway, I had the impression that TOS was shot on film so it was relatively straightforward to remaster, unlike TNG which needed to have all the effects shots recomposited. Was there some practical issue with the existing TOS effects footage or was it just deemed too primitive for modern audiences? Partly both, a lot of the space shots were reused as stock footage from episode to episode, so the original elements were in poor condition.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:50
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Don't listen to anybody else's opinion of which episodes are good or bad, just watch and form your own opinions. I'm gonna have to try real hard to jettison my general disdain for old TV shows for this one. I think I'm mostly gonna be keeping an eye out for the germ of future concepts; a lot of the episode desriptions I've seen seem pretty silly.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:52
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Minidust posted:What was the deal there anyway, I had the impression that TOS was shot on film so it was relatively straightforward to remaster, unlike TNG which needed to have all the effects shots recomposited. Was there some practical issue with the existing TOS effects footage or was it just deemed too primitive for modern audiences? It was a 40th anniversary gimmick Snow Cone Capone posted:I'm gonna have to try real hard to jettison my general disdain for old TV shows for this one. I think I'm mostly gonna be keeping an eye out for the germ of future concepts; a lot of the episode desriptions I've seen seem pretty silly. Star Trek is silly
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Dec 18, 2019 18:53
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Snow Cone Capone posted:My guess would be "we have CGI now, add some" "but sir, why??" "BECAUSE IT'S THERE" Aw man the replacement of cool electronic components with featureless smooth "tech" for the Mudd android is just tragic
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Dec 18, 2019 18:54
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Minidust posted:What was the deal there anyway, I had the impression that TOS was shot on film so it was relatively straightforward to remaster, unlike TNG which needed to have all the effects shots recomposited. Was there some practical issue with the existing TOS effects footage or was it just deemed too primitive for modern audiences? If I recall correctly, the reasoning was that in HD, a lot of the original effects would have looked laughable. Like "you can literally see that it's a toy held up on strings in front of a black cloth" levels, which would just rip the viewer right out of the story. So most of the time they just tried to create a better rendering of whatever it was the original effect was trying to show, in a way that doesn't look out of place next to the original footage. And for the most part, that's what they did -- although they did occasionally indulge their inner George Lucas and go too far putting new stuff in.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:56
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Minidust posted:What was the deal there anyway, I had the impression that TOS was shot on film so it was relatively straightforward to remaster, unlike TNG which needed to have all the effects shots recomposited. Was there some practical issue with the existing TOS effects footage or was it just deemed too primitive for modern audiences? The quality wasn't good enough to start with. Keep in mind that the TOS effects were optically composited, so, if there were multiple elements in an effect, you were basically layering them together. That meant you had multi-generation copies of the original filmed element by the time you were done. And you know what happens when you make an analog copy of an analog medium, especially several times over. In TNG, they had the original filmed motion control passes with individual elements that they could then use a modern pipeline to composite. With TOS, all they had was film of the optically composited effect shots. So, for live action they had a first generation element to scan that came out nice and clean. For the effects, there really wasn't much more detail to get out of them than the original broadcast since they were already multi-generation copies by virtue of the effects process. That makes it pretty jarring to go from a nice clean live action segment to a very grainy and fuzzy effects shot. I still maintain that the basic CGI work was solid in most cases to stand in for the models. What really trips the effects up is the lack of post processing. Applying a grain filter to attempt to match the texture of the live action footage would have done wonders to make the shots feel like they were more modern re-creation of the original models than computer cut scenes.
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Dec 18, 2019 18:58
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skasion posted:It was a 40th anniversary gimmick For sure. Maybe once I watch some TOS episodes I'll be able to put my finger on the different kinds of silly between say, Move Along Home with a TOS episode. Unless the best part is that there is no difference 
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Dec 18, 2019 19:01
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I always thought the fuzzy generational loss special effects shots in TOS looked cool.
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Dec 18, 2019 19:10
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Snow Cone Capone posted:For sure. Maybe once I watch some TOS episodes I'll be able to put my finger on the different kinds of silly between say, Move Along Home with a TOS episode. Move Along Home doesn’t quite capture the quality of TOS comedy, but it’s close. The Thaw (Voyager episode with evil clown) is also in the ballpark — the ending of “I, Mudd” always reminds me of that one. The best part is how this kind of goofball PG shenanigans is blithely juxtaposed with a vision of the universe full of dead and dying civilizations, nuclear war, plague, madness, malevolent gods, killer robots and Lovecraftian horrors.
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Dec 18, 2019 19:17
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Any episode with Q in it is just as silly as anything in TOS.
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Dec 18, 2019 19:27
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marktheando posted:Any episode with Q in it is just as silly as anything in TOS. I'm not sure All Good Things is, at all, depending on how you feel about the court scene. Sherwood Forest shenanigans, sure.
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Dec 18, 2019 19:41
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The "silliest" part of TOS is the goofy musical cues to punctuate the occasional joke or wacky scenario, it basically sounds like it's right out of a 60s sitcom. Good info on the degraded effects shot, that makes sense... thanks people!!
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Dec 18, 2019 19:44
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marktheando posted:DS9 mirror universe episodes were definitely the weakest recurring storyline in DS9. The last one they did with Quark and Rom was good though.
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Dec 18, 2019 20:12
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Snow Cone Capone posted:A significant amount of my desire to finish Voyager has been sucked out, as I have been told that this is a non-canon original character for the Timelines game So if regular Janeway does warcrimes, what does that make mirror Janeway? E: I can't unsee her as Red from OitNB. Like I know it's the same actress, but when I started watching Orange, my brain didn't make the connection until someone pointed it out. Even then, Red doesn't read as "Janeway but in prison" as much as that card reads to me as "Red but a space renegade." Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 20:57
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Oxyclean posted:So if regular Janeway does warcrimes, what does that make mirror Janeway? Honest?
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Dec 18, 2019 21:08
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Preperator Janeway was the Terran Empire's most vicious ambassador; sent by the Emperor herself to prepare countless slave races for future Terran rule, her methods were known to produce particularly compliant populations. But a species known as the Borg had been sniffing around Terran space, promising knowledge and freedom to worlds under the thrall of the Emperor. Janeway, sent to deal with the problem, is instead stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Inspired by the freedom and enlightenment in the worlds of the quadrant, Janeway turns against the oncoming Terran fleet, fighting the conquerors that were her own people.
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Dec 18, 2019 21:13
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Oxyclean posted:"Red but a space renegade." ngl I'd watch the poo poo out of this
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Dec 18, 2019 21:20
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Snow Cone Capone posted:ngl I'd watch the poo poo out of this (Russian accent) You come into my quadrant, and you threaten my girls? Bozemoi, you are pathetic. Listen, you filthy Kazon motherfucker, you just get right back into that pathetic little ship of yours, turn around, and gently caress off. Do you know what we do to people like you where I'm from? We cut off your balls, stuff them with garlic, and make you eat them.(/Russian accent.) Meanwhile, Worf is over in the corner, experiencing a very disturbing mix of fear, admiration, and arousal.
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Dec 18, 2019 22:11
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You'd think growing up where he did, Worf would have quickly realized that Russian people are the Klingons of humanity e: I googled "klingon slav squat" but sadly no joy, someone get on it
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Dec 18, 2019 22:16
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marktheando posted:Any episode with Q in it is just as silly as anything in TOS. The silliest bit of Q-Who isn't Q, but it's still pretty serious overall
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Dec 18, 2019 22:41
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Oxyclean posted:E: I can't unsee her as Red from OitNB. Like I know it's the same actress, but when I started watching Orange, my brain didn't make the connection until someone pointed it out. Even then, Red doesn't read as "Janeway but in prison" as much as that card reads to me as "Red but a space renegade." I wonder if that's deliberate? Like how the Army Chaplain Odo is a reference to Rene Auberjonois's role as a chaplain in MASH
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Dec 18, 2019 22:52
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They also did a "Siddiq from Game of Thrones" one, so it's a distinct possibility! 
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Dec 18, 2019 22:56
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Please don't make me reinstall Timelines.
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Dec 18, 2019 23:05
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There had better be a Prince Morn card.
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Dec 18, 2019 23:17
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