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H110Hawk posted:If you are making deposits large enough to be multiple % of your whole portfolio regularly enough for it to matter that's a good problem. I'm still vesting so I am and I've been considering adding the exact thing dexter6 is asking about just to make things a bit easier.
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Dec 17, 2019 19:35
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I just realized that next November I'm going to have some vested money that I'll have to figure this out for anyway, so I'll see what I can do. You've put my "this is an interesting problem" hat on my head.
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Dec 17, 2019 19:52
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Residency Evil posted:Are there any good alternatives? The issue with google finance is that we have various accounts across multiple providers. 2nding Personal Capital. I have a referral code that gets you a $20 Amazon GC if you sign up using it, and I get one too. Let me know if you want it, I'll PM you. It's free, they only charge if you want to talk to an advisor. I've been using it to replace Google Finance after a custom =GOOGLEFINANCE formula spreadsheet was just too much legwork to maintain and futz with. Does everything quite nicely.
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Dec 17, 2019 20:20
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Motronic posted:I'm still vesting so I am and I've been considering adding the exact thing dexter6 is asking about just to make things a bit easier. I just let it swing off into la la land and have my 401k walk it back. I'm just OK with it going from 70/30 to 80/20 for 6 months while I ignore it. I make little best guess swags at it but don't overthink it. Full View shows me their little number and I can see it moving around, seems great. Most people don't have this problem, and even if they do it's only quarterly. "Ok I got $100k from a stock sale, so I'll send $30k to the feds, $10k to the state, and toss $60k in my taxable so I need to glance at my accounts and see which has more than $60k in $FUND to sell so I can buy it in taxable." Sure machines could do this for you, but the input effort if it's not something you do day in and day out is going to be not worth the effort in my book for something done 4 times a year - plus at that rate you're probably going to exhaust your ability to do it in your IRA/401k depending on how well you've done at saving there over the past however many years. I'm not going to google how to do linear algebra to solve this. 
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Dec 17, 2019 20:35
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Just got an email from Citi's Accelerate Savings Account dropping from either 2.1 or 2.05 (I forget) to 1.85%. But it's still competitive against Ally and such.
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Dec 17, 2019 20:44
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Hoodwinker posted:I just realized that next November I'm going to have some vested money that I'll have to figure this out for anyway, so I'll see what I can do. You've put my "this is an interesting problem" hat on my head. The amount you need to buy/sell from each asset class is a simple calculation. The pieces of information you need are the following: your portfolio's total balance, the intended percentage of your portfolio for each asset class, and the actual percentage of your portfolio for each asset class. Apply each percentage (intended/actual) to your total balance, and you've got your intended balance and your actual balance for each asset class. Simply subtract your actual balance from your intended balance. The list of these are your rebalance amounts. For each item in the list, if the number is positive, you need to add this much and if the number is negative, you need to subtract this much. When you do this on your entire portfolio, you may notice something - the sum of the rebalance amounts is $0. This means if you were to do nothing but a straight rebalance, these calculations will tell you exactly what asset class to sell, how much, and then specifically where to add it. An example: quote:Total Balance - $100,000 The next step is also simple: if you're adding money to the portfolio, increase your cash allocation by the amount you're adding. If you redo the previous calculations using your new increased balance and your cash allocation as an asset like any other, then the same principles will hold. The rebalance amounts will show you exactly where money needs to be added, and where it needs to be removed. This works whether you're adding $0 or $1,000,000. This doesn't address the issue of, "Okay, which accounts do I need to buy/sell from?", but I feel like as an exercise that part is trivial compared to the simple math of, "How much needs to go into which bucket?" H110Hawk posted:I'm not going to google how to do linear algebra to solve this. Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 20:46
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Hoodwinker posted:The next step is also simple: if you're adding money to the portfolio, increase your cash allocation by the amount you're adding. Right, everything up to and including this part is straight forward math. Now what? As H110Hawk said, it's linear algebra that I have not used for decades and don't remember anymore. My wife probably does. She's weirdly good about remembering every last bit of math she's ever learned.
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Dec 17, 2019 21:07
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Motronic posted:Right, everything up to and including this part is straight forward math. Edit: I'm doing some poking around and I think I see what you're getting at. If you want to have your portfolio rebalanced without having to reproduce a 4-fund in each account so you can apply the appropriate balance based on only the money you're adding to the account, it gets a little weird, because you have to sell assets from another account to make up for the difference you might be applying to the first account. Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 21:21
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If you’re adding a fixed, known amount of funds, you don’t.
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Dec 17, 2019 21:37
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MJP posted:2nding Personal Capital. I have a referral code that gets you a $20 Amazon GC if you sign up using it, and I get one too. Let me know if you want it, I'll PM you. I use personal capital as well. Just much easier.
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Dec 17, 2019 21:50
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More poking around and I'm not really seeing a huge issue? If you get a big windfall and you dump it into VTSAX in taxable, the auto-balancer will tell me how much I need to sell VTSAX in tax-advantaged accounts to turn it into bonds or international or whatever to make up the shortfall.
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Dec 17, 2019 21:51
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Hoodwinker posted:More poking around and I'm not really seeing a huge issue? If you get a big windfall and you dump it into VTSAX in taxable, the auto-balancer will tell me how much I need to sell VTSAX in tax-advantaged accounts to turn it into bonds or international or whatever to make up the shortfall. Yeah, I get that. It works for adding things, not so much for automatically suggesting a rebalance. It's probably not very important. I just made another column for "proposed (addition/removal)" per asset class on a copy of my main tab where you can just play with numbers to see how your balance ends up. Pos/neg for a straight rebalance and/or make sure the sum of that column ends up at the number you are adding. It's not like exact precision is needed here. I'm probably overthinking it as more of an interesting problem than a "close enough" thing.
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Dec 17, 2019 21:56
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Motronic posted:Yeah, I get that. It works for adding things, not so much for automatically suggesting a rebalance. It's probably not very important. I just made another column for "proposed (addition/removal)" per asset class on a copy of my main tab where you can just play with numbers to see how your balance ends up. Pos/neg for a straight rebalance and/or make sure the sum of that column ends up at the number you are adding. It's not like exact precision is needed here. I'm probably overthinking it as more of an interesting problem than a "close enough" thing. I just added this to my spreadsheet so if I want to know what it'll take to do a rebalance, I can scan this and figure out which account I can sell a higher asset to buy the lower asset in as long as it has a sufficient amount of the one I need to sell.  I feel like this has gone assumed and therefore unspoken until this point, but we should all be on the same page that you rebalance the portfolio and not the account, so the original premise of, "How do I balance a purchase inside of a given account?" doesn't really make sense because you can always shift money in other accounts into the balances you need for your overall allocation. I know you know this (and basically everything I've brought up so far), Motronic, but I'm not sure about others. Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 22:10
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Hoodwinker posted:I feel like this has gone assumed and therefore unspoken until this point, but we should all be on the same page that you rebalance the portfolio and not the account, so the original premise of, "How do I balance a purchase inside of a given account?" doesn't really make sense because you can always shift money in other accounts into the balances you need for your overall allocation. I know you know this (and basically everything I've brought up so far), Motronic, but I'm not sure about others. Correct. I understood your line of spreadsheet magic as goal solving to the account:ticker level. The logic I was aiming for is this screenshot: It's super easy to talk past each other on the internet. Even if your'e wrong.
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Dec 17, 2019 22:33
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Hoodwinker posted:I feel like this has gone assumed and therefore unspoken until this point, but we should all be on the same page that you rebalance the portfolio and not the account, so the original premise of, "How do I balance a purchase inside of a given account?" doesn't really make sense because you can always shift money in other accounts into the balances you need for your overall allocation. I know you know this (and basically everything I've brought up so far), Motronic, but I'm not sure about others. Yeah, we're on the same page with rebalancing a PORTFOLIO, not accounts. But I think what you have up there is the same as my "diff" column. In which case a $0 in rebalance where you sold 4400.75 of your total market funds to rebalance would actually be overselling. That's why I basically made a scratch-pad calculator for "what if" scenarios.
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Dec 17, 2019 22:38
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Motronic posted:Yeah, we're on the same page with rebalancing a PORTFOLIO, not accounts. But I think what you have up there is the same as my "diff" column. In which case a $0 in rebalance where you sold 4400.75 of your total market funds to rebalance would actually be overselling. That's why I basically made a scratch-pad calculator for "what if" scenarios.  If I had instead sold the full $4,400.75 and distributed $3,964.46 to bonds and ~$706.28 to international, I would be totally zeroed out. Where does the overselling come from? H110Hawk posted:Correct. I understood your line of spreadsheet magic as goal solving to the account:ticker level. The logic I was aiming for is this screenshot:
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Dec 17, 2019 22:54
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Yeah, we're at the point of sharing spreadsheets/examples. Because it feels like we all missing each other and I'm probably the dumb one so I want those formulas. My power is out and I'm phone postin. I'll get to it later when I have a real machine to work off of.
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Dec 17, 2019 23:44
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Motronic posted:Yeah, we're at the point of sharing spreadsheets/examples. Because it feels like we all missing each other and I'm probably the dumb one so I want those formulas.
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Dec 17, 2019 23:52
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I have Personal Capital, and I use Wealthfront and Betterment solely as trackers (looked into their products, not a fan), but honestly my favorite is still just good ol' lovely Quicken, which I pay like $50 a year but I like it the best. It's a nice mix of automated and easily manually adjusted.
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Dec 18, 2019 05:11
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Quicken 2008 was perfect, it's a shame intuit cripples it by disabling transaction downloads after 3 years.
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Dec 18, 2019 15:08
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I realize it's not worthwhile to try to time your investments, but what about timing Roth conversions?
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Dec 18, 2019 19:56
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Small White Dragon posted:I realize it's not worthwhile to try to time your investments, but what about timing Roth conversions? I mean, that's a tax question not a investment timing the market question. What are you trying to accomplish? Backdoor roth annual conversion or trickling money out of a traditional IRA into Roth?
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Dec 18, 2019 20:51
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Small White Dragon posted:I realize it's not worthwhile to try to time your investments, but what about timing Roth conversions? Here's an example using a 22% federal tax rate: quote:First, the starting values: Now if you want to do it because you don't have as much money on hand to cover the tax burden of the conversion with, that's a different story. There's always the possibility that by delaying, the market goes up and your timing might get hosed up if you need 5 years for the money to season and the market decides to rise another 20% in the next year. If you have the ability to cover the taxes on the conversion now and timing of your withdrawal later is a factor, you probably want to just bite the bullet and convert now. Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 22:29
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I mean, timing Roth conversions means timing tax rates, we are at lows historically but who knows what the future brings?
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Dec 19, 2019 04:15
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Higher taxes almost inevitably. They can't get much lower anyway, and if they don't get higher soonish we are going to have a lot of problems on our hands.
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Dec 19, 2019 04:23
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moana posted:I mean, timing Roth conversions means timing tax rates, we are at lows historically but who knows what the future brings?
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Dec 19, 2019 05:56
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I like personal capital, but make sure to use a Google voice number or some sort of burner because they are RELENTLESS with the phone calls to get you to sign up for their paid services.
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Dec 19, 2019 07:26
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Minty Swagger posted:I like personal capital, but make sure to use a Google voice number or some sort of burner because they are RELENTLESS with the phone calls to get you to sign up for their paid services.
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Dec 19, 2019 13:07
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I got a million calls at first but it stopped. They do reach out whenever you use the retirement feature. Might be other triggers as well that I haven't noticed. I never answer but I think if you do and tell them you aren't interested they stop for a while. To me its a low price for a great app. I'd totally pay for a reasonable subscription price.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:07
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Google fi sends the calls from them straight to voicemail and my phone doesn't even ring. I will notice a voicemail weeks later. I sometimes feel bad, I mean I could answer once and just say no thanks, I know that works. I like the features though for checking my allocation and running Monte Carlo simulations.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:23
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Hoodwinker posted:In this context, absolutely. I'm basically always in favor of doing a conversion ASAP if you can afford it and your current rate is low. (I wasn't there for that meeting but my boss said he was ready to jump off a cliff by the end of it trying to convince them)
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Dec 19, 2019 16:47
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moana posted:Want to tell that to the clients who didn't want to do any roth conversion this year at zero income because they would "pay extra in taxes"?
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Dec 19, 2019 16:54
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Re: Personal Capital sales calls, I flat out told them that I was using a Boglehead-ish portfolio that I was managing myself, I had no plans to make major changes, and it was doing well enough over time, so I was just using the service to track everything in one place. They stopped after that. Doesn't help that my "personal financial advisor" whose face pops up every few logins looks like a slightly less skinny version of Kenneth from 30 Rock, and his name is Bucky Bamford, which is totally the Winter Soldier, and the cognitive dissonance just makes me laugh. I'm sure he's a decent guy, just an unfortunate match for my pop culture exposure. Going onto the question about timing conversions... I have a trad IRA that's got around $83k in it. My wife's is around $36k (she was disabled for a few years and we could only contribute the tax-break maximum). We've been income-limited from trad IRA benefits for a few years now and I opened up a Roth so I can draw from it when I'm retired. My accountant calculated that it'd be best to convert it over in $5,000/year chunks ($2500 for each of our IRAs) to keep capital gains taxes low. Is there any reason I shouldn't convert it over time and just get it all done in one big chunky taxy swoop?
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Dec 19, 2019 20:14
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MJP posted:My accountant calculated that it'd be best to convert it over in $5,000/year chunks ($2500 for each of our IRAs) to keep capital gains taxes low. Is there any reason I shouldn't convert it over time and just get it all done in one big chunky taxy swoop? Example: You're MFJ and your AGI is otherwise $50,000 and your marginal rate is 12%. You have $5,000 in liquid cash available. You can safely convert up to $28,950 because the next marginal rate (22%) starts at $78,950. You have more than the ~$3,500 available in liquid form to cover the tax liability ($28,950 * 12%) from the conversion, so you're golden. Example 2: You're MFJ and your AGI is otherwise $50,000 and your marginal rate is 12%. You only have $600 in cash available to cover the additional tax liability, so you can safely convert only up to $5,000 ($600 / 12%) even though your marginal rate ceiling is much higher. Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 20:16
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Unless you know you're going to have a year in the near future where your taxable income is going to be significantly lower and drop you into a lower tax bracket, then there's no point in waiting, particularly if you want to get started on backdoor Roth IRA contributions. This is subject to the limitations that Hoodwinker mentioned, would not do enough to push you into the next income tax bracket and make sure you have enough cash on hand to cover the tax liability.
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Dec 19, 2019 21:50
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Chu020 posted:Unless you know you're going to have a year in the near future where your taxable income is going to be significantly lower and drop you into a lower tax bracket, then there's no point in waiting, particularly if you want to get started on backdoor Roth IRA contributions. This is subject to the limitations that Hoodwinker mentioned, would not do enough to push you into the next income tax bracket and make sure you have enough cash on hand to cover the tax liability.
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Dec 19, 2019 21:53
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SlapActionJackson posted:Quicken 2008 was perfect, it's a shame intuit cripples it by disabling transaction downloads after 3 years. Intuit sold Quicken to a private equity firm a few years ago. Which is when they turned it into SaaS essentially.
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Dec 21, 2019 02:10
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I soured on Quicken twelve or so years ago. My online banking account kept getting locked on a regular basis because Intuit's servers were making regular requests using old credentials, even though I had completely removed that account from Quicken months before. If I didn't manually log into my account though a browser every few days, it would trigger too many incorrect logins in a row and lock me out. No one was able to help me, so I had to create a new login for my bank, which in turn disabled the hosed account. I still use that weird variation of my username to this day.
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Dec 21, 2019 02:17
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Wait so is QuickBooks no longer associated with Intuit’s opposition to simplified taxes?
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Dec 21, 2019 05:22
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Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I have three nephews who are all under seven years old. When I turned 25(or around there, can't remember exactly) my mother gave me a bunch of savings bonds she, my grandmother, etc all bought me when I was little and I cashed them in. They all appreciated a good amount in value and I thought it was a really cool thing, and I'd like to do something like that for my nephews - buy them some each year for their birthday's so when they get older they have a nice pile of cash. However, I looked into it and apparently this isn't a smart thing to do anymore because the interest rates are so low on them. Is there anything else I can do like this? I'd like to be able to put some money somewhere for them as gifts that will gain interest as they get older, then they can cash in after x amount of years.
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Dec 22, 2019 23:50
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