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Jedit posted:Lyta is the only character said to have gone beyond the Rim before the actor died. Didn’t she just go to the vorlons home planet?
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Dec 12, 2019 11:52
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Coming to the end of S1 in the rewatch, 3 episodes to go - Babylon Squared, The Quality of Mercy and Chrysalis. I think I'll watch them all tonight rather than worry about the election.
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Dec 12, 2019 12:13
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:They didn't know if they'd be cancelled or not, so they recorded a proper series finale. Then, surprise, they weren't cancelled, so they moved that finale to season 5 and made that! I didn't hate it but yeah, it's a bizarre episode. Hah! Interesting. SlothfulCobra posted:I thought it was neat, although each of the scenes is flawed in its own way, and there's no self-contained story. Yeah, I mean the only part I genuinely hated was the scene with the historians. What the gently caress was that even trying to say? Historians and commentators get a kick out of discrediting the Great Men and Great Women who shape our times? I didn't think it was a clever discussion of the role of history and memory at all. CainFortea posted:The holographic bit was pretty great in and of itself. I can't recall there being any bad parts of that bit specifically. The holographic bit was much. I mean, Babylon 5 in general is much, but that part... like, so first they have a Roko's Basilisk machine that they needed to use in order to generate deep fakes, but in doing so these simulations have total access to computer systems? It was silly. Platonicsolid posted:How do you not love the accidental Canticle for Leibowitz scene? Yeah it was fun scene, but it didn't make sense. So, the earth was wiped out in the nuclear war hundreds of years prior, sure, I can see that, but so was all knowledge of basic industrial techniques and the last few hundred years of scientific advances? For example, we see these guys are now copying books by hand like it's the dark ages, and the rangers are preparing to introduce a combustion engine. It just don't see that as a possibility.. regardless of a nuclear holocaust, if people survive at all, conceptual advances like the printing press aren't going anywhere. We can even make combustion engines that run on wood fumes. I did like the human/Vorlon suit at the end. I haven't posted my thoughts since around the middle of season 3, I believe, so I might as well barf out the tl;dr here and now. I've been watching the show with my wife, so there are now two more people in the world who've seen four season of Babylon 5. I've enjoyed it a lot more than she has, sadly. I'll just spoiler the rest because why not. I've enjoyed the show quite a bit, and I'm sad it's creaking to a close knowing the best is behind me. I'm not sure what my favorite part has been so far, probably the Narn/Centauri war and the first part of the Shadow war. The resolution of the Sinclair and Babylon 4 plot was alright, I guess, with those laugh-out-loud goofy Vorlon angels. Sheridan going to Z'ha'dum was a terrific episode... but how could he possibly have not been vaporized by that nuclear explosion before falling into the magic hole?! For gently caress's sake it was right there! I liked liked Lorien, especially his makeup, despite some of the pretty basic truisms about language or whatever that the show was passing off as ancient wisdom. The first half of season 4 was fun as all hell for the most part. I did love the Vorlon reveal when they started genociding folks and everyone is, like, "poo poo." Still, I was disappointed that it all ended so soon! I felt that the resolution was rushed, I would have really liked a few more episodes dealing with the crisis of dealing with both Vorlons and Shadows killing everyone. It would have definitely been preferable to agonizing hours of rear end in a top hat brainwashed Garibaldi loving everything up or that full (and pointless?) bottle episode of Sheridan torture. The resolution to the shadow/Vorlon war was... to show unity and to scold them? That was it?! If only someone had figured this out over the last million years! That was was anticlimactic. The show really does not have a light touch. There are a lot of these "and the whole class stood and clapped" moments. So what was the deal with Good Kosh anyway? He was the nice Vorlon and the rest of the Vorlons are assholes? Yet he still brought on Jack the Ripper to torture Delenn to see if she and Sheridan were The Chose Ones who were pure enough to... uh.. uhm.. Too bad he never told Sheridan earlier "Hey, if you get the Vorlons to attack right now I'm going to get loving killed and down the line millions of innocent people will die." I guess the Vorlons just aren't great at communicating, huh? Every single scene with either Londo or G'Kar was gold, and those actors just performed circles around everybody else. G'Kar even managed to pull off the second of three torture episodes (so far), and it definitely hurt to watch G'Kar suffer. I loved all of their interactions. Londo opening up to G'Kar in "Between the Darkness and the Light" was perfect. The stuff with the mad-emperor was fine, and Londo begging Vir to kill him to save the planet from the Vorlons was great. Actually, I think my favorite moment might have been Londo calling up Sheridan asking if they had a plan to stop the Vorlons, and Sheridan telling him they had a week until the Vorlons got there. Londo's bitter sort-of laugh being informed he had a week was spot-on. Vir was terrific too and had great chemistry with Londo. Friend-zone Lenier ruled, and kept saving everyone's asses with little-to-no acknowledgment. One of favorite Lenier moments was when he programmed the White Star to automatically GTFO from Z'ha'dum. Speaking of Lenier, what the hell happened to Garibaldi's motorcycle? The second half of Season 4 was okay and picked up at the end. I got a bit tired of watching rear end in a top hat-Garibaldi gently caress things up and yet more Minbari drama, which was resolved, as always, with everyone telling Delenn that she was pure and perfect and good and right and they should all listen to perfect Delenn. I did like her giving the worker caste power, that was fun. My wife and I were making jokes about the worker caste being idiots or something since we never actually see them speak. Basically imagining the worker caste leaders speaking really slowly (like the Pakleds in Star Trek) and going "Okay, so the worker caste thinks we need to build more roads. We're voting for more roads and more houses." The human characters are mostly meh, but this is way too long as it is. The only part of the rear end in a top hat-Garibaldi plot I liked was Bester's reveal. Really, every scene with Bester is great. I never realized Walter Koenig was any good! He's been awesome. The war to liberate earth was okay. From seasons 1 to 4, the special effects went from terrible to good to great, which has certainly helped. I didn't like the conclusion under the new President. So, earth was taken over by totalitarian monster who even personally tried to wipe out the whole planet, but whatever, let's just give everyone amnesty and hold hands now. They need a real purge and some war crime trials. In conclusion, Babylon 5 is a land of contrasts.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:40
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Delthalaz posted:
You may want to hold on saying this opinion until the final episode.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:04
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Delthalaz posted:
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:14
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CainFortea posted:You may want to hold on saying this opinion until the final episode. Oh interesting. I was under the impression people don't like Season 5 as much.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:42
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I think it's fair to say that a lot of folks didn't like season 5 as much as season 4. However, the final episode is also very frequently praised as one of, if not the best, episode.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:53
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The last episode of Season 5 was actually filmed to be the Season 4/series finale, then held for Season 5 when they found out TNT was ordering a fifth season.
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Dec 12, 2019 22:00
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Delthalaz posted:
Basically. The Vorlons and Shadows have a different approach but are both poo poo. Kosh had a personal soft spot for the younger races.
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Dec 12, 2019 22:53
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WRT Kosh: Sure Kosh I was "good" but keep in mind that the Vorlons view the younger races as something like we may view chimpanzees. Wow they can do some cool tricks, I suppose, but they are largely beneath notice, and certainly not anything worthy of any kind of real respect. On the other hand, their whole schtick is to guide the younger races, so they don't just ignore them - they actively manipulate and modify the younger races thinking that they are "helping", because they have lost perspective on what they were originally supposed to do. Really, the only "old one" that is truly beneficent is Lorien. But regardless, the Vorlons see us as something to study, toy with, and do with as they please within certain nebulous rules. Kosh, is one of the less zealous of the Vorlons. JMS says that he's a venerable and well respected Vorlon. So he holds a decent amount of sway back home. He's the one going, "Gee, maybe it's not a good idea for us to dissect them all the time, maybe we should reach out a bit" and the other Vorlons are like "fff gently caress that go ahead if you want." That doesn't mean Kosh is purely good. He still finds humans and the younger races to be unworthy of engaging as anything other than inferior. We don't know how much of a hand he had in Lyta's modification, but it's presumed he at least kept them from killing her. But it's also strongly implied that even HE was sort of using her against the Shadows. (won't spoil too much of S5, but that much at least becomes clear in S4) It wasn't really until Sherdian nearly enrages Kosh into killing him that Kosh says "Whoa, gently caress we are wrong here." Kosh knows that convincing the Vorlons to strike directly means that the Shadows will come for him. He knows also that it's the only way to spark the Vorlons into waking up and doing what they should be doing. At this point who knows how much convincing he had to do, or maybe he had a cadre of Vorlons that would act on his behalf - speculation. He didn't tell Sheridan any of that because at that point, why? He knew what he had to do, and he wasn't going to back out. And before that he was being a smug prick. Regardless, his death presumably makes the other faction of Vorlons who were against engagement with the younger races go "SEE? WE loving TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN!" and then the Vorlons went fairly insane. Presumably the faction of Vorlons who are "imperious" sent Kosh II as a "OKAY WE AREN'T loving AROUND ANYMORE - YOU WILL DO AS WE SAY" That's why the B5 crew had to get rid of him, as he would have completely spoiled any battle plans against the Vorlons. Kosh II's real name is Ulkesh BTW.
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Dec 12, 2019 23:50
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While we know that the Vorlons did some monkeying around long, long ago, I don't think we've ever saw them actually interfere or teach or anything that isn't for the sake of the war against the Shadows. I don't know if that means they're much more subtle than the Shadows or if they've just gotten lazy after their control over the galaxy went unopposed for so long. Kosh seemed like he genuinely cared at the end, but that was also through the filter of his telepathy where there's a whole extra layer of perceived empathy. You could also interpret his sacrifice as conceding that just like with the last Shadow war, the "lesser" races don't have what it takes without a little cheating, and giving his life to help win the war. I don't know what the whole intent was behind what he did with G'kar though. It's weird that the other races see Kosh as a specific religious figure, as opposed to humans just seeing him as a generic angel.
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Dec 13, 2019 02:18
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SlothfulCobra posted:While we know that the Vorlons did some monkeying around long, long ago, I don't think we've ever saw them actually interfere or teach or anything that isn't for the sake of the war against the Shadows. I don't know if that means they're much more subtle than the Shadows or if they've just gotten lazy after their control over the galaxy went unopposed for so long. Kosh seemed like he genuinely cared at the end, but that was also through the filter of his telepathy where there's a whole extra layer of perceived empathy. You could also interpret his sacrifice as conceding that just like with the last Shadow war, the "lesser" races don't have what it takes without a little cheating, and giving his life to help win the war. I don't know what the whole intent was behind what he did with G'kar though. Oh don't get me wrong. I'm sure Kosh did care but until Sheridan forced him to face it, I don't think he realized that the Vorlons were being just as bad as the Shadows until the very end. I mean hell, even the whole "fight legends" thing was to his benefit, not Sheridans. I guess if you want to get all biblical allegory, Kosh didn't really turn completely good until he realized he had to sacrifice himself or doom the galaxy to another pointless war. poo poo now I want to watch Interudes and Examinations. The whole Kosh thing is profoundly moving for me, if you can tell. 
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Dec 13, 2019 02:30
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Calling Intersections in Real Time pointless, is it
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Dec 16, 2019 15:27
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Calling Intersections in Real Time pointless, is it It's a pretty neat episode in my opinion because the titular "intersections" are the commercial breaks, which is lost on a streaming/DVD viewing.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:47
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Does anybody have the sweet Incel'shok picture handy? I need to save that one.
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Dec 17, 2019 05:00
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Amazing that Jerry Doyle developed the entire set of mannerisms, speech patterns and character gestalt for Michael Garibaldi 2 years prior to landing the role. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUrWcKwzsEk
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Dec 19, 2019 04:45
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I started watching this today for the first time. The Gathering wasn't nearly as bad as I was led to believe, I didn't have any problems getting through it. I love Londo and how Sinclair constantly sounds like he's trapped in a Command & Conquer FMV cutscene. I watched up through that episode where Londo gets horny and gets his files stolen while Garibaldi tries to figure out who keeps using all the dial-up
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Dec 19, 2019 05:00
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I'm currently watching it with someone who is seeing it for the first time, and she thought season one was really good. We just started season two.
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Dec 19, 2019 05:01
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shadow puppet of a posted:Amazing that Jerry Doyle developed the entire set of mannerisms, speech patterns and character gestalt for Michael Garibaldi 2 years prior to landing the role. lol if you think Garibaldi wasn't essentially Doyle as himself. JMS has said as much. mystic pimp posted:I started watching this today for the first time. The Gathering wasn't nearly as bad as I was led to believe, I didn't have any problems getting through it. I love Londo and how Sinclair constantly sounds like he's trapped in a Command & Conquer FMV cutscene. I watched up through that episode where Londo gets horny and gets his files stolen while Garibaldi tries to figure out who keeps using all the dial-up You're in for a good time then, please keep posting your thoughts.
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Dec 19, 2019 05:20
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also vir playing on his gameboy like gently caress you during an important diplomatic meeting owns. all the poo poo between londo and g'kar is great so far. I also forgot to mention that I love kosh's encounter suit, he looks like a loving marathon enemy
mystic pimp fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 06:36
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mystic pimp posted:I started watching this today for the first time. The Gathering wasn't nearly as bad as I was led to believe, I didn't have any problems getting through it. I love Londo and how Sinclair constantly sounds like he's trapped in a Command & Conquer FMV cutscene. I watched up through that episode where Londo gets horny and gets his files stolen while Garibaldi tries to figure out who keeps using all the dial-up mystic pimp posted:also vir playing on his gameboy like gently caress you during an important diplomatic meeting owns. all the poo poo between londo and g'kar is great so far. I also forgot to mention that I love kosh's encounter suit, he looks like a loving marathon enemy You're me two months ago! I finished the series a few weeks ago and I didn't like it. I LOVED IT Can't wait to watch your observations, please keep them coming and don't hold back.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:17
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watching "infection" right now. i love how much scenery the loving doctor chews. IT WAS THE DAWN OF THE THIRD AGE!!! this intro whips rear end. this episode reminded me a lot of tng. nelson looked like discount tetsuo the iron man for a while which was cool though. lol @ sinclair chewing scenery the ENTIRE last half of the episode and doing his best evil guy voice while taunting the terminator alien. this poo poo was so goofy I loved it someone told me this is one of the worst season 1 episodes so honestly i dont think ill have a problem getting through the rest of it mystic pimp fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 19:12
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mystic pimp posted:watching "infection" right now. i love how much scenery the loving doctor chews. IT WAS THE DAWN OF THE THIRD AGE!!! this intro whips rear end. this episode reminded me a lot of tng. nelson looked like discount tetsuo the iron man for a while which was cool though. lol @ sinclair chewing scenery the ENTIRE last half of the episode and doing his best evil guy voice while taunting the terminator alien. this poo poo was so goofy I loved it That's a funny way of spelling TKO. Was Infection when Sinclair got called out on his bullshit for continually running into danger? I found that to be so refreshing because I thought it was just stupid normal 90s bullshit where the lead did all of the high profile stuff that he had staff for.
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Dec 19, 2019 19:51
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TraderStav posted:That's a funny way of spelling TKO. yes it is and its one of the serious moments in this episode i liked the most
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Dec 19, 2019 19:54
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mystic pimp posted:yes it is and its one of the serious moments in this episode i liked the most I think that was actually the moment (other than goons insisting) that I realized that the show was something else than of the era that it was created in. It was something it took very seriously and mindfully about the story it was going to tell. Hope you get some time off for the Holiday, it's a great way to spend two straight weeks. With a few exceptions....
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Dec 19, 2019 20:10
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mfw my old associate du'rog is already dead and very shortly i will be too
mystic pimp fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 20:12
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Hell of an assassin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr68ynrKVo0
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Dec 19, 2019 20:15
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s1e6  i lost my loving mind at ironheart literally turning into the galaxy brain meme. this show is loving wild i love it so much
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Dec 19, 2019 22:34
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mystic pimp posted:watching "infection" right now. i love how much scenery the loving doctor chews. [...] this episode reminded me a lot of tng. mystic pimp posted:yes it is and its one of the serious moments in this episode i liked the most mystic pimp posted:s1e6 Lemme check this list ... ah, Believers is S1E10. Enjoy.
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Dec 19, 2019 22:45
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did j michael strazynski go through a bad breakup or something this is like 3 episodes in a row where someones ex has showed up on the station lol i love that sinclair asks kosh for help and hes busy watching the history channel on his tv and just totally doesnt give a gently caress mystic pimp fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 22:51
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mystic pimp posted:did j michael strazynski go through a bad breakup or something this is like 3 episodes in a row where someones ex has showed up on the station Yeah you have no idea. Short version - he fell for a woman who joined a cult and he then joined, but he finally came to his senses and left but she wouldn’t. Then he moved to San Diego where he got mugged so bad he nearly died. So that explains the ex thing, the telepath thing, and the ruins of San Diego all in one go.
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Dec 19, 2019 22:59
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oh okay well i guess that makes sense jesus christ
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Dec 19, 2019 23:10
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Doctor Zero posted:Yeah you have no idea. Short version - he fell for a woman who joined a cult and he then joined, but he finally came to his senses and left but she wouldn’t. I need to read his memoirs sometime.
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Dec 20, 2019 00:27
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Doctor Zero posted:Yeah you have no idea. Short version - he fell for a woman who joined a cult and he then joined, but he finally came to his senses and left but she wouldn’t. Hahaha I had no idea San Diego getting nuked and made permanently uninhabitable sprang from a personal grudge he had, that's amazing.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:20
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mystic pimp posted:did j michael strazynski go through a bad breakup or something this is like 3 episodes in a row where someones ex has showed up on the station You'll love Kosh even more after Deathwalker
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Dec 20, 2019 01:45
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Midjack posted:I need to read his memoirs sometime. There are spoilers. For an autobiography. Let’s just say that he might be able to turn his early life into a movie but people would think it too improbable to be true. And that his family were a real piece of work.
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Dec 20, 2019 03:53
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TraderStav posted:You'll love Kosh even more after Deathwalker
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Dec 20, 2019 05:44
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Hahaha I had no idea San Diego getting nuked and made permanently uninhabitable sprang from a personal grudge he had, that's amazing. It's not even the only time JMS did it. After he pulled Crusade because Ted Turner was loving with it, he turned Chicago into a criminal wasteland in his comic Rising Stars.
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Dec 20, 2019 09:24
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Jedit posted:It's not even the only time JMS did it. After he pulled Crusade because Ted Turner was loving with it, he turned Chicago into a criminal wasteland in his comic Rising Stars. But Turner lived in Atlanta, and TNT is still headquartered there. 
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Dec 20, 2019 17:17
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jng2058 posted:But Turner lived in Atlanta, and TNT is still headquartered there. I may be misremembering. It was definitely "gently caress over a city where Ted Turner was based" though, and specifically for that reason.
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Dec 20, 2019 17:28
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