|
White Pig updated. It’s about a girl reincarnated as the fat backup character to the villain of a shoujo manga, and her efforts to lose weight and not be dragged down by said villain.
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 04:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
Siegkrow posted:And little by little I realize that Garm is a dog-dude and suddenly it clicks. He acts just like a dog would with their master. I didn't realize that but you're right. Amy's definitely got some cat-like tendancies too, though nowhere near as pronounced as Garm.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 09:03
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:White Pig updated. It’s about a girl reincarnated as the fat backup character to the villain of a shoujo manga, and her efforts to lose weight and not be dragged down by said villain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 10:22
|
|
|
EponymousMrYar posted:On the first point, it's helpful to remember that their dumbness is grounded by their ability to resurrect. It's part stupidity and also part lazyness. Why bother with tactics when you can just throw yourself at a problem again and again until you brute force it? Even if it means you have to die a few times to do so. Tsutomo's respect/fear of death and pain are part of what sell the stupid angle because it's a thing that everyone can relate to. I don't really buy the laziness part. We've been shown that dying in the dungeon means having to deal with trying to get your gear back as well as huge loss of profit. Amy's previous guild went in the red from repeated failed raids, and the preparations to take down the red dragon put the MC's guild in the red at least before they sold their loot. Garm and Amy had to be taught something as simple as chugging down potions if they're hurt. Garm's skills can lure enemies to him and they all seem to know about drawing aggro. Is the author seriously expecting us to look at all this and suspend our disbelief that no one has ever thought "hey maybe we can be more efficient"? As for the second one, I agree that he coached Garm the same as the other two, it's why I only got a vibe from it. It's really how the female reporter was dealt with and her fate that had me raising an eyebrow.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 11:30
|
|
|
Jackard posted:Isn't that the one where they've never heard of soap before and treat it like this amazing new thing despite it all taking place in what looks like the 1700s or some poo poo Yes, that's the one. It's wholesome, that doesn't necessarily mean it's smart about history.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 13:57
|
|
|
Artificer posted:What was that isekai someone posted before that was described as Dark Souls the Isekai? Was it good? https://mangadex.org/title/37415/samayoeru-tensei-sha-tachi-no-relive-game That's the one I've seen described as Dark Souls the Isekai (except with all the anime tiddy) It is uh... not entirely wholesome, though its unwholesomeness is pretty much entirely on the horny end of things rather than slavery and pedophilia.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 15:40
|
|
|
amigolupus posted:I don't really buy the laziness part. (spoiler) The MC has been micromanaging his party from the word go. Including yelling at his damage dealers to hold back  And as someone who's played a lot of MMOs, it does not break my disbelief at all that yes, no one thought to actually think more about the mechanics and processes of what they were doing/seeing. A good solid 40-45% of my experiences with real-live people in similar situations would slot right into the world, no questions asked. Oh right, I can agree with you there on that sort of vibe. At it's most charitable, you can see the reporter's situation as a repeat of the little 'but i just wanted to be like lucky boy!' aside from earlier. Except worse because she's now in the same situation Tsutomo was when she did her smear ad on him. It's karmic retribution. And said retribution can get ugly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 23:08
|
|
|
The odds of any individual player being dumb are pretty high, but the odds of an entire group, or an entire culture, being dumb are slim to none. Any power fantasy that relies on the MC being the only person on the planet with any common sense is an instant no from me. Video game logic in particular is specifically designed to be "easy mode." The player is presented problems that are designed to be solved, with mathematical certainty. Unlike, you know, the rest of life which is a billion times more complicated. Which is why people like to retreat into the simplicity of video games in order to feel smart and powerful. Clarste fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 17, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2019 23:14
|
|
|
Uhh have you seen MMO players? There was some pretty dumb stuff in Vanilla WoW, or even today in Classic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 00:26
|
|
|
Clarste posted:The odds of any individual player being dumb are pretty high, but the odds of an entire group, or an entire culture, being dumb are slim to none. Any power fantasy that relies on the MC being the only person on the planet with any common sense is an instant no from me. But when the people with power are those with high power, the culture itself twists itself so those in power stay in power, and in a case like this, they would keep the juicy secrets to their own.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 00:33
|
|
|
Jackard posted:Uhh have you seen MMO players? There was some pretty dumb stuff in Vanilla WoW, or even today in Classic. Yeah but that lasted a couple months until people adapted. Most people learned or solved the system. The people in the Isekai have apparently, as a culture where this poo poo is a reality everyone is forced to live in, never tried to experiement or do anything but what the dumbest most inexperienced people do in week 1 of an MMO.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 00:35
|
|
|
Jackard posted:Uhh have you seen MMO players? There was some pretty dumb stuff in Vanilla WoW, or even today in Classic. Aheehehehehe. Oh god I've spent years playing WoW, players are imbeciles, they parrot opinions with no understanding, and try to do what the top guilds do disregarding the fact that those strategies require a very high skill floor, and some strategies are simpler and would allow someone with lower skill higher damage than doing the big strategy while unskillful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 00:35
|
|
|
Yea its like, if you're placing your faith in these people, you must not have much experience with MMOs.
Jackard fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Dec 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 00:49
|
|
|
Siegkrow posted:Aheehehehehe. That's the point though: bad players will mindlessly try to copy the better players. And the better players will freely share all their secrets for bragging rights. From what was described, that doesn't seem to be the case here: instead the community consists entirely of the lower-skilled players and no one has even considered doing better until the MC shows up. Because, as a society, they are all apparently just dumb and lazy. Edit: You also have to consider that you yourself are another average player, and the fact that you existed in your groups to look down on everyone else as an idiot is a relevant piece of this puzzle. Essentially the story is reinforcing your own naive illusion that you are the only intelligent person in the world. Clarste fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 01:10
|
|
|
Clarste posted:That's the point though: bad players will mindlessly try to copy the better players. And the better players will freely share all their secrets for bragging rights. From what was described, that doesn't seem to be the case here: instead the community consists entirely of the lower-skilled players and no one has even considered doing better until the MC shows up. Because, as a society, they are all apparently just dumb and lazy. I mean, that's really Alliance PVP in a nutshell...
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 01:31
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Edit: You also have to consider that you yourself are another average player, and the fact that you existed in your groups to look down on everyone else as an idiot is a relevant piece of this puzzle. Essentially the story is reinforcing your own naive illusion that you are the only intelligent person in the world. I will say that my summing them up as dumb and lazy is a bit of an oversimplification. The MC's knowledge isn't perfect, since the world isn't a game world and thus the enemies in the real dungeon aren't rigidly controlled by AI routines. And thus he spends a lot of time sitting around watching the dungeon feeds to learn what's different. This includes tricks and tactics that some parties use to deal with encounters. It's just that most of that stuff is either pretty niche or not as overall effective as the reigning strategy due to how much it costs for gear, potions, etc. It is more like a 'mindless copying of a strategy good players came up with' situation from the way it's presented. In addition to Kamiya's Dragon Change bit earlier, the MC also learns to buff one of his own abilities from a bird lady who adapted a 'lower enemy accuracy' attack into something that deals damage at range. And she learned to do that through sheer practice. khy posted:Honestly it reminds me a lot of a sports movie/show where the people are very skilled but there's a mentor character who helps them refine that skill and push themselves to their limits to be the best they can be. Except not with sports, with dragons and crabs and swords and magic instead. Which is far more entertaining than sports. I like this interpretation of it too. The monitors and the sheer publicity that the dungeon groups get (including sponsorships) brings in the Sports/Idol culture angle naturally. EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Dec 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 02:38
|
|
|
EponymousMrYar posted:The MC has been micromanaging his party from the word go. Including yelling at his damage dealers to hold back Ok, so where's the isekai where the protagonist's cheat power is that he's the only one with Deadly Boss Mods installed?
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 03:40
|
|
|
Experimentation is going to be more limited when you feel actual pain, run the risk of actual death, and you have actual human beings instead of alts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 03:51
|
|
|
I mean that didnt stop medical science from advancing Or military tech and tactics, more applicably
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 03:55
|
|
|
Plus it's not like they've got wikis to share information. A guild wants to keep something secret, they've got a lot more options, from avoiding the 'dungeon cameras' to preparing behind closed doors etc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:I mean that didnt stop medical science from advancing Yeah, this, basically. The story is assuming that this society is cripplingly stupid/complacent compared to real life. You can come up with all the rationalizations you want, but all I'm hearing is "actually, I am that smart compared to literally everyone else in the world." Edit: I mean, forget "advancement" people have been eating poison for centuries in the name of medical research. The fact that a battle in a dungeon would have a more obvious positive or negative outcome just means that people would be even more experimental with it. Clarste fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Dec 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 04:33
|
|
|
Nemo2342 posted:Ok, so where's the isekai where the protagonist's cheat power is that he's the only one with Deadly Boss Mods installed? That's just FFXIV.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 04:57
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Yeah, this, basically. The story is assuming that this society is cripplingly stupid/complacent compared to real life. Dude, please, we are living in THIS world, we willingly eat poison daily because it tastes good (insert any fried monstrosity US junk food here). I'm not above that! I eat junk good! I Know it is bad for me. I'm not even going to go I to all the weather bullshit. People Are Stupid.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 05:46
|
|
|
I don't think we can convince them that this is a totally plausible scenario. Might as well move on. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 07:28
|
|
|
Either way, the idea that the MC comes in and teaches the locals how it's done is a sketchy premise at the best of times. I mean, who'd have thought that Japanese food was the tastiest cuisine in history, am I right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 07:40
|
|
|
Jackard posted:I don't think we can convince them that this is a totally plausible scenario. Might as well move on. I wanted to post about it but considered that we've been talking about this for a page because I started nitpicking some intrigue in that universe. If stuff at that level is bothering me, then I'm a hypocrite for taking status screens, skills, and classes as being normal. Clarste posted:I mean, who'd have thought that Japanese food was the tastiest cuisine in history, am I right? Hamburg steak! The flavor just melts in your mouth! You should try it with... MAYONNAISE! And afterwards, bathe with shaaaaampooooo! What I'm taking from this is an impression that Japanese schools have a home-ec course where they all make hamburg steak and there's probably a common project where everybody makes some conditioner or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 08:14
|
|
|
EponymousMrYar posted:In addition to Kamiya's Dragon Change bit earlier, the MC also learns to buff one of his own abilities from a bird lady who adapted a 'lower enemy accuracy' attack into something that deals damage at range. And she learned to do that through sheer practice. It bugged me that the MC's reaction to seeing the bird lady's skill was, "Hmm, she's using this as an attack? I remember that this is supposed to be a debuff skill in the MMO." It felt like a backhanded compliment. Paracelsus posted:Experimentation is going to be more limited when you feel actual pain, run the risk of actual death, and you have actual human beings instead of alts. The thing is that the manga never plays up that aspect at all. It runs on the premise that everyone is so used to being resurrected that they're all blasé about pain and death. Even Amy and Garm told the MC to just jump off cliffs so he'd get used to heights in one of the lower levels of the dungeon. If people act like pain and death are meaningless, then there's no good reason they wouldn't have tried experimenting at all. Clarste posted:Yeah, this, basically. The story is assuming that this society is cripplingly stupid/complacent compared to real life. Pretty much. The world of Live Dungeon relies on trying to sell us that there's no innovation whatsoever and it just falls under its own weight when you think about it. Despite there being skills like Garm's that can draw aggro and having high vitality, no one has ever thought of tanking. Despite a potion shop existing in the city, pro adventurers like Garm and Amy had to be taught it's okay to do something as basic as drinking potions mid-battle to keep fighting. Despite white mages having Heal as part of their basic toolkit, no one has ever thought of having them heal up the party mid-fight. This world's culture revolves around exploring dungeons and seems to have a bustling economy. It feels impossible for them to get this far and not have people think "How could we do this better?" or have people bumblefuck their way into a working strategy and have others refine those ideas.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 09:04
|
|
|
For reference, soap making is at least 5 thousand years old. We've got ancient cuneiform tablets with soap recipes on them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 09:05
|
|
|
i would much rather be having this conversation on how it's dumb because that's not how people work than having the other conversation this premise provides: colonialist fantasy
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 09:19
|
|
|
Read a chapter of something good instead: Retired Heroes updated
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 17:53
|
|
|
Been reading Undead Adventurer LN and Rentt really is the best adventure buddy you could ask for. He's also dense as gently caress about people's thoughts and opinions on him especially Lorraine's. Brought it up because a new chapter got uploaded as well. https://read.ptscans.com/read/fe6b8a15-d62e-44da-9a9c-73efbb569c9f/ I really loving hope this gets an anime someday. With my luck...probably this coming year or next.  I am very deeply upset that the manga skipped the lake village incident since it was very good, and hope that it's only being moved or added as a bonus chapter doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Dec 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 20:00
|
|
|
doomrider7 posted:Been reading Undead Adventurer LN and Rentt really is the best adventure buddy you could ask for. He's also dense as gently caress about people's thoughts and opinions on him especially Lorraine's. Brought it up because a new chapter got uploaded as well. To be fair, the lake village incident is a bit of a weird sidequest that breaks up the flow of the story. It would be much better suited as a bonus chapter/sidestory unless the novels start calling back to it at some point. Right now I really want to know when volume 5 is coming out in English. Volume 4 finally starts teasing that there might be something to Rentt's rebirth other than "I dunno, poo poo just happens" and I'm really eager to get some more development on that front.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 20:31
|
|
|
Nemo2342 posted:To be fair, the lake village incident is a bit of a weird sidequest that breaks up the flow of the story. It would be much better suited as a bonus chapter/sidestory unless the novels start calling back to it at some point. Agree. Still liked it lots though and further solidifies Rentt as an Uber Bro.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 21:15
|
|
|
I enjoy Live Dungeon, it has good moments and it has warts. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting about it so much amigolupus posted:This world's culture revolves around exploring dungeons and seems to have a bustling economy. It feels impossible for them to get this far and not have people think "How could we do this better?" or have people bumblefuck their way into a working strategy and have others refine those ideas. Live Dungeon just has the one city. That's a fairly homogeneous environment for science to be carried out. The MC is a fresh pair of eyes, a different way of thinking on their practices and procedures and thus his work is turning the wheel of progress forward. At least, that's my take on it  Everything Burrito posted:Read a chapter of something good instead: Retired Heroes updated Oh good, I was about ready to drop it in my 'appears dead' bin. Glad to see a new chapter after so long!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 01:11
|
|
|
"So I'm a Spider, So What?" goes some really weird places in the light novel. I appreciate that they've more or less stopped with the several page long stat blocks for creatures finally. But the apparently complete abandonment of (manga spoilers as it hasn't gotten this far yet) of the hero's story as soon as he meets our titular character only to jump into a several book flashback is a really weird narrative choice by the author. I appreciate how the manga is more or less completely ignoring the entire hero's arc since it all happens like a decade in the future from White's time in the dungeon. There's no need to introduce that story jumping back and forth between those two time periods and it'll avoid the issue of dropping it for several books so you can catch up White's past story up to the Hero's present.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 04:57
|
|
|
Everything Burrito posted:Read a chapter of something good instead: Retired Heroes updated I feel like this is a little unfair, given that I can’t think of a single isekai manga as good as Retired Heroes. Maybe Bakarina.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 05:16
|
|
|
Live Dungeon It's worth pointing out that you don't need a dedicated tank or a healer up front for the first 60 or so levels and that there are clans using different strategies and that there are clans out there who use a healer for more than resurrection spells. It's just that none of them can utilise a tank because the MC is currently the only person with a long range heal. There's no point to a tank if you can't heal them. amigolupus posted:It feels impossible for them to get this far and not have people think "How could we do this better?" or have people bumblefuck their way into a working strategy and have others refine those ideas. This is working in Japan to a tee where the answer to 'why are we doing it this way' is 'because we have always done it this way'. Culture plays a huge part in innovation and it's really not unheard of for people to get stuck in a certain mindset. Ask anybody who's working in a Japanese company or in white collar Japan about how many stamps/seals they have because how else can I pick up my mail or do my banking unless I have the right stationary?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 05:26
|
|
|
nrook posted:I feel like this is a little unfair, given that I can’t think of a single isekai manga as good as Retired Heroes. Maybe Bakarina. I was thinking about what my top tier ones are and they're the ones that are basically just fantasy stories rather than strictly isekai manga: Retired Heroes, Faraway Paladin, The Wolf Won't Sleep, and S-Rank Daughter
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 06:01
|
|
|
Everything Burrito posted:I was thinking about what my top tier ones are and they're the ones that are basically just fantasy stories rather than strictly isekai manga: Retired Heroes, Faraway Paladin, The Wolf Won't Sleep, and S-Rank Daughter
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 06:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
Nihilarian posted:your top isekai are 1 isekai and 3 not-isekai? paladin and wolf are both isekai so more like 2/2 I don't actually like isekai that much honestly, I like fantasy stories and unfortunately to find those I end up having to trawl around in the isekai trash heap for good ones
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 07:02
|
|