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BigglesSWE posted:https://twitter.com/johnboyega/status/1207632579245019136?s=21 Still the most wasted actor in the trilogy.
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Dec 19, 2019 13:50
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Pollyanna posted:I mean, that’s the thing. Star Wars doesn’t need to be good, the entire point is flashy hype machine. It’s beer and popcorn. It sucks to say it, but if I want a good movie, I’ll watch something else. I swear! I'm going into RoS today (if I can get a ticket lol), and I'm going in primarily for the starfighter and capital ship porn, swelling John Williams score, and fun chase and gun/swordfight scenes. That's what Star Wars has really been for me and what keeps me coming back as a grown rear end man (tm). Sure, I can pontificate on Luke's Hero's Journey, the successful delivery of political drama in children's storytelling in the PT, how movies like the OT teach positive values to the youth who watch it, and the special effects technical master class. But really, I'm here for the pew pew, zoom zooms, and wham whams. And it seems like RoS brought that to a ridiculous degree. "Palpatine shows up alive with like a thousand Star Destroyers. Armed with loving Death Star Lasers! And everyone loving fights that poo poo out in open space." is right out of a 9 year old's very first fan fiction SW sequel and it's glorious. That's why people (myself included) were taken aback. These movies were never designed to be Very Serious Business to begin with. Except to the stockholders, of course. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 13:50
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El Perkele posted:i really like how the Plot Device changes extremely rapidly, often in just minutes, and old plot devices or plots are resurrected just to be killed again. it's great, really. wonderful. It's because Abrams is trying to perform narrative sleight of hand. There is no possibility that the Emperor coming back would pass any scrutiny without multiple movies of setup, so he is forced to do one narrative trick: he starts in media res, with the thing having happened. Now, much like not showing the monster too much in a horror movie so your mind fills in the blanks, the idea is that you fill in the blanks with stuff that works for you. In media res is a very good narrative trick, but the problem is: it works best when the things make sense. Your mind is good at rationalising, so for many things, this will work just fine. It's especially interesting when the in media res start is later explained fully satisfactorily, and entire masterpieces have been made on this - movies like Memento, for instance. The problem with this flick is that it makes zero sense that Palpy is back. If you think about it for one second, you realise: "hang on. Why is he offering Kylo the job he already has? How did he hide? Where did the star destroyers come from?" and the questions begin to compound. The only way to make this work is not give you enough time to think, so the pacing needs to be breakneck. And once you start questioning it, the feeling that everything is stupid and cringy begins to compound on other scenes. It is not helped by the way some of those clips are cringy out of context. Which is why there's mainly two types of reviews: "It was alright, quite fun" from people who suspended disbelief and on whom the narrative tricks worked, and "What the gently caress is this?" from people for whom the illusion failed. Not an indictment of either group, narrative tricks is how fiction works. It's just, the movie is poorly concepted and had to resort to those tricks to even have a chance. I personally read the leaks and already went "this is loving stupid" so it's probably not gonna work for me at all, and I won't be seeing it. It doesn't even sound like it's a glorious disaster, just super meh and boring. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 13:53
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Pollyanna posted:I mean, that’s the thing. Star Wars doesn’t need to be good, the entire point is flashy hype machine. It’s beer and popcorn. It sucks to say it, but if I want a good movie, I’ll watch something else. But I don't even want a good movie, I want a movie where the plot makes at least a bit of sense with maybe a few plot holes. TROS doesn't have a scenario that is remotely coherent, it's a bunch of action scenes that happen because the writers wanted them to happen. Dark Forces, an FPS from the 90s, had a better plot than this movie despite it being only a pretext to shoot some Stormtroopers.
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Dec 19, 2019 13:53
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Hey cool, we've moved on to 'star wars is supposed to be mindless trash!' a day or two ahead of schedule.
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Dec 19, 2019 13:53
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Necrothatcher posted:Yeah, but TROS is not even a good flashy hype machine. I’ll have to actually see it in whole to judge that, but from what I’ve seen of the high moments, it’s at best okay. A lot of people who care about the world and characters from all over the main series will be let down. A lot of people who liked The Last Jedi (I’m on the fence) will hate it. A lot of people who hated The Last Jedi will still hate this one. A lot of people who want to see cool space battles and lightsabers and things going boom will be bored for large chunks of the movie. A lot of people who don’t give a poo poo and want to see Star Wars branded (and completely insipid) drama and then post YEAHHH STARB WARB I CRY EVER TIM on Twitter will have fun.
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Dec 19, 2019 13:55
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Btw, the narrative trick thing also applies to The Last Jedi. There, the trick is subversion of expectations. The problem with the Last Jedi is that the last 30 minutes undo a large chunk of what the movie built up, so it's the trick done poorly. But if it works on you and you can ignore some things, you'll have enjoyed that movie, too.
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Dec 19, 2019 13:58
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dex_sda posted:Btw, the narrative trick thing also applies to The Last Jedi. There, the trick is subversion of expectations. The problem with the Last Jedi is that the last 30 minutes undo a large chunk of what the movie built up, so it's the trick done poorly. But if it works on you and you can ignore some things, you'll have enjoyed that movie, too. I’m still mad about that, but I’ve become far too invested in this series that hasn’t been good in a long time. Dishwasher posted:I swear! I'm going into RoS today (if I can get a ticket lol), and I’m going in primarily for the starfighter and capital ship porn, swelling John Williams score, and fun chase and gun/swordfight scenes. I genuinely wish you good luck.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:10
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Star Wars is character driven melodrama. It was never about mindless action. There isn't really that much action in the OT (especially in ESB) and when it happens, it has a storytelling purpose. That's what makes the lightsaber fights in ESB and ROTJ interesting - they are about the interaction of the participating characters.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:13
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Captain Jesus posted:Star Wars is character driven melodrama. It was never about mindless action. There isn't really that much action in the OT (especially in ESB) and when it happens, it has a storytelling purpose. That's what makes the lightsaber fights in ESB and ROTJ interesting - they are about the interaction of the participating characters. Compare the throne room in ROTJ to that clip of Palpy merking himself, lol.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:16
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Pollyanna posted:A lot of people who don’t give a poo poo and want to see Star Wars branded (and completely insipid) drama and then post YEAHHH STARB WARB I CRY EVER TIM on Twitter will have fun. I'd say there's not much wrong with that either. Building emotional connections to brands that make up for how a product lacks in other critical ways is the backbone of selling anything from breakfast cereal, to cars, to Star Wars. Necrothatcher posted:Hey cool, we've moved on to 'star wars is supposed to be mindless trash!' a day or two ahead of schedule. Maybe people wouldn't be so mad at the trilogy if more held this viewpoint. Star Wars is not a religion or a worldview. Just fun movies (with hella, hella other media tie-ins) to look at that sometimes are even well-written. But I understand the pain of the die-hards as well. It's been a rough trilogy. All possible puns intended. 
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Dec 19, 2019 14:19
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Pollyanna posted:I’m still mad about that, but I’ve become far too invested in this series that hasn’t been good in a long time. They genuinely were going in an interesting direction, and I was mesmerized at Ben's offer to Rey. Had the movie ended there, it would have been good; fix the casino scenes and it would have been great. It helps I am tired of fanservice culture and up to that point it was going against that grain. But no, they burned down SW cliches only to rebuild them exactly the same from the ashes. What a waste.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:19
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Why were the Knights of Ren following our heroes when they could just attack them, at any time? Why did our heroes get TWO vehicles on the party planet? Poe hot wired one (much to the surprise of everyone else. Why?) and then they take two with them. Why take a 2nd one? Why HOTWIRE one and not the other? There was no narrative need for two either, they didn't split off or deal with the troopers differently! And then they lose both of them right at the place they needed to be and landed without any issues either! Ahahahghghghghhhhhhhhhh Why did the First/Final (which one was it at that point?) Order blow up an entire planet that they already occupied. That they already had troops on. Sucks to be those Stormtroopers I guess. I can't wait for the year or so when someone goes through every single scene and eviscerates it. That will be fun to watch. Comstar fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 14:26
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'maybe star wars was always bad???' is nonsense that's letting disney off the hook for making a bunch of crap films
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Dec 19, 2019 14:28
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Brother Entropy posted:'maybe star wars was always bad???' is nonsense that's letting disney off the hook for making a bunch of crap films The takes in this thread strike me as more "you people are dumb for wanting Star Wars to be good"
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Dec 19, 2019 14:34
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Are the ancient Jedi texts resolved in any way or are we to assume Rey did some studying before the movie and that's how she is such a Mary Sue
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Dec 19, 2019 14:40
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kidkissinger posted:The takes in this thread strike me as more "you people are dumb for wanting Star Wars to be good" my reaction to that is still the same like yeah, if someone just plain doesn't like star wars more power to 'em but going 'oh they're kids movies they're not supposed to be good' is this weird like, excusing of mediocrity coming from people who are ostensibly fans of star wars
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Dec 19, 2019 14:43
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SpaceDrake posted:Except that I assure you, children are dumb enough to spot plot holes like Sheev's Million Of Dudes Out Of Nowhere. Remember how we had a whole movie about getting a million dudes and how big a deal it was to do without anyone noticing
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Dec 19, 2019 14:45
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I hope Boyega goes on to be in better films, like whatever Martin Scorsese's directs once Disney reduces him to a lump of flesh without a mouth it can torture for all of eternity.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:49
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Edit: on second thought, this post was really bad.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:50
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Kill All Cops posted:Are the ancient Jedi texts resolved in any way or are we to assume Rey did some studying before the movie and that's how she is such a Mary Sue She respecced from warrior to healer and rbwus why she loses the fight to kylo
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Dec 19, 2019 14:55
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Brother Entropy posted:my reaction to that is still the same Yeah, I used to be into SW a lot, then I grew out of the fanservice 'I know what that is!!!' culture and realised most SW media is crap. however, the old trilogy and stuff like Kotor 2 show that this stuff can be real, real good. It just no longer is, and that take is disingenuous. ESB is one of the best sequels of all time, and a great movie in it's own right. This universe can be fun. It makes me sad how far it fell, but I also feel schadenfreude at Disney having failed.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:56
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Brother Entropy posted:my reaction to that is still the same I am emphatically not a longtime fan of Star Wars, I just decided to check them out as films before Skywalker comes out and found a lot of schlock from RotJ onward.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:58
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BisonDollah posted:Saw the movie, went back and read the last ten pages of this thread in anticipation of cool and good posts about it. What was space socialism about it?
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Dec 19, 2019 15:03
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The one person I know who was looking forward to see this film saw it. They said the following: This film is good because it doesn't have anything stupid like the lava fight or General Grievous (the way Rey killed Palpatine was stupidly anime but not as stupid as those things.) Also, Palpatine being alive is fine because how he died in Jedi was stupid. Jedi is a bad film and the ending was too childish so it's okay for this one to be bad, too. I guess I'm glad they enjoyed it (??) but it all sounds weird to me, like to make it look good you have to tear the others down.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:09
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Horizon Burning posted:The one person I know who was looking forward to see this film saw it. They said the following: It's emotional sunk costs all the way down
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Dec 19, 2019 15:10
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Horizon Burning posted:The one person I know who was looking forward to see this film saw it. They said the following: What the gently caress is that guy talking about? gohmak posted:What was space socialism about it? I would love to know this too.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:10
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I am not one to defend the prequels, but the lava fight at least had something going on between the characters, schlock though it was. Don't really see how the RoS fight can have that, but maybe it is better in context.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:13
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I really didn't have the heart to drill down on any of it.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:13
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quote:space socialism Force healing is great in theory but who's gonna pay for it?
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Dec 19, 2019 15:13
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I saw the film
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Dec 19, 2019 15:16
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Frankston posted:I saw the film Donald, it was a movie.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:17
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El Perkele posted:i really like how the Plot Device changes extremely rapidly, often in just minutes, and old plot devices or plots are resurrected just to be killed again. it's great, really. wonderful. It's because Abrams is a complete loving hack who can't write or direct anything that doesn't have "big superweapon villain man" in it
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Dec 19, 2019 15:20
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dex_sda posted:It's because Abrams is trying to perform narrative sleight of hand. There is no possibility that the Emperor coming back would pass any scrutiny without multiple movies of setup, so he is forced to do one narrative trick: he starts in media res, with the thing having happened. Now, much like not showing the monster too much in a horror movie so your mind fills in the blanks, the idea is that you fill in the blanks with stuff that works for you. In media res is a very good narrative trick, but the problem is: it works best when the things make sense. Your mind is good at rationalising, so for many things, this will work just fine. It's especially interesting when the in media res start is later explained fully satisfactorily, and entire masterpieces have been made on this - movies like Memento, for instance. Moreover, Palpatine coming back is boring. We already saw this guy reaching ultimate power, we saw his master plan unraveling because he underestimated a young Jedi and didn't control his pawn as much as he wanted. TROS is pretty much regurgitated ROTJ, only instead of a powerful Emperor who controls the entire galaxy, the protagonists confront his shriveled husk threatening them through pirate broadcasts. I didn't like the First Order. It seemed cheap that after the heroes of the OT defeated the Emperor, the new characters find themselves in the exact same situation, fighting the reskinned Empire as plucky rebels. But I accepted the argument that it was nonsense to expect an entire state capitulate just because their leader died, that all those officers and Moffs had to go somewhere and I believed Disney will do something interesting with it. Having them to be just a smokescreen for Palpatine is the most unimaginative thing they could do.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:25
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Dishwasher posted:I swear! I'm going into RoS today (if I can get a ticket lol), and I'm going in primarily for the starfighter and capital ship porn, swelling John Williams score This is easily the worst Star Wars score and I'm including Solo and Rogue One in this assessment. I re-listened to Phantom Menace (which is a really, really excellent score and possibly top 3 in the series) and then Revenge (as a more fitting comparison) to compare, and the big issue is that this one has nothing really new at all for themes. I mean, it has two new themes/motifs, but they don't seem to peak anywhere or do anything interesting and sound like lesser versions of stuff from his scores from, like, Minority Report. So then, everything else are just motifs peaking in and out of Mickey Mousing. However, the difference is that stuff from the OT was MOSTLY only hinted to in the PT scores outside of the standby Force theme or done in really interesting/good ways (Anakin's theme segueing into the Empire theme, the celebration theme at the end of Phantom being a happy version of the Emperor's theme), with the scores mostly weighing on the new motifs or actual pointed scoring. In the ST, only Rei's theme really stands out (and ends up being overused in this), Kylo/First Order's was always somewhat weak, and the Resistance theme, while okay, is barely used at all, with the rest of the thematic work being just straight up OT stuff...again. And with that, even Solo did a better job of recycling OT stuff AND Han's theme is better used.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:26
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Gantolandon posted:Moreover, Palpatine coming back is boring. We already saw this guy reaching ultimate power, we saw his master plan unraveling because he underestimated a young Jedi and didn't control his pawn as much as he wanted. TROS is pretty much regurgitated ROTJ, only instead of a powerful Emperor who controls the entire galaxy, the protagonists confront his shriveled husk threatening them through pirate broadcasts. I mean, I fully agree, but I think the entire concept of the first order is a boring rehash and the emperor is at least hammy fun, so I gave that a pass in my analysis. The narrative trick is definitely not helped by the concept being boring.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:30
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Are the Duel of the Fates remix or the rework of the Emperor's Theme that were used in a bunch of the trailers not in the score?
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Dec 19, 2019 15:31
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Gantolandon posted:It seemed cheap that after the heroes of the OT defeated the Emperor, the new characters find themselves in the exact same situation, fighting the reskinned Empire as plucky rebels. No, you know what’s cheap? After the heroes of the OT defeated the Emperor, the original heroes find themselves in the exact same situation, fighting the reskinned Empire as plucky rebels, and then they loving die. Literally, in one case. It’s like, what was the point, then?
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Dec 19, 2019 15:31
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Horizon Burning posted:The one person I know who was looking forward to see this film saw it. They said the following: I liked the lava fight; especially the call back to the final duel between Luke and Vader in Jedi.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:32
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I think solo was worse than the last Jedi
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Dec 19, 2019 15:33
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