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suck my woke dick posted:This, basically. I agree to an extent that the EU helps to prevent war between the EU members, but I also think that a train of thought that is also often lost on Europeans themselves is that the EU is a necessary counterbalance to the interests of Russia and China, and even the US to an extent. People in Europe don't want to accept that Russia is the enemy; at least that's the impression I got while over there. Most people seem to think that the entire notion is purely an American construction and not based in reality, but the truth is that Putin and his regime have been angling for the dismantlement of the EU for a reason: the European states are weaker apart, and he can leverage Russia's political resources a lot more if the EU isn't in the way. Forcing Europe to cooperate on matters of policy is a way of countering Russia's interests. And it should be noted that Russia's current interests are definitely not the interests of Europe. At their best, they are a kleptocratic oligarchy run by a narcissistic despot who only seeks to maximize his own wealth and influence, and at their worst they are a crypto-fascist revanchist nightmare state that is trying to make the global situation more amenable to an eventual use of armed force to retake what they see as rightfully theirs. This is coming from a guy who used to defend Russia and decry depictions of them as the enemy in media. The invasion of Ukraine and their meddling in Western countries has proven to me that they are very much the enemy, and in fact may be far worse than the Soviet Union ever was in that regard. As for China, well, I don't think I have to explain why China is bad. They are a totalitarian, Orwellian regime that seeks to expand their way of running things oversees by leveraging their economic assets. We are already seeing China's creeping tendrils here in the west. In America, people are getting kicked out of NBA games or shut down at gaming conventions for expressing pro-Hong Kong or anti-Chinese sentiment. This is only a fraction of what China hopes to do in all countries. They want to be able to spread their oppressive censorship across the globe just as they have done domestically. It really is Orwellian, down to the idea of controlling thought itself, something China cannot achieve unless it does so globally. And the US... well, the US is a collapsing neoliberal empire that will do anything for the benefit of the wealthy that control it, and unfortunately Europe is not much different. The main difference, I think, is that the European population are much less likely to take that fight sitting down, and will eventually crack if their plutocrats push too far. Americans though? We're just a lazy bunch, drugged out of our minds with food, TV, and literal drugs. We will almost certainly end up like Russia soon: a flailing, angry, washed-up Cold War superpower dominated by a corrupt oligarchy siphoning money away from the people while the common man lives in squalor, which only spurs on the growth of extremism. The EU is a pretty poo poo organization, but if Europe wants to be able to go toe-to-toe with any of these three superpowers, they absolutely need to keep the EU around. Otherwise, you can accept another Cold War situation where the nations and peoples of Europe just get bullied around by larger empires.
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Dec 19, 2019 03:00
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I dont disagree with what you have said, but you imply, by omission, that the EU is not a collapsing neolib empire bent on siphoning out the money. I mean, they de ided to give companies a 5 year lead to find new tax haven tricks once they were dragged into discussing the double Irish in the EP. I am very sympathetic to your points, the world loving sucks, the US sucks, Russia Megasucks, China Ultrasucks. But North Korea doesn't justify Russia sucking, you can't say "well, Russia has problems but only to avoid being NK!" That poo poo doesn't fly. And Russia doesnt justify the EU sucking. "Yeah, wefuck up the economy with austerity, have the ECB buy Repsol's bonds, turn a blind eye to every repressing law anybody passes... but it's to be able to go toe-to-toe with Russia!" (Toe to toe but maybe not how you meant it) ... aw we are hosed.
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Dec 19, 2019 05:45
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Well look, we all have to be reasonable people here. If the systems erected and enabled by the EU means we're all stuck in a hellscape ruled by people who would make Gordon Gekko do a double take, that is just the price we must pay for security.
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Dec 19, 2019 08:59
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GABA ghoul posted:Plus side, cities will finally be able to pass socially and fiscally progressive legislation and maybe even start to address the issue of climate change. And rural areas can do their mad Max poo poo and hunt immigrants for food or whatever the gently caress hey are secretly dreaming about. LOL goddamn, u really hate country folks. Weird.
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Dec 19, 2019 09:57
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MinisterSinister posted:The main difference, I think, is that the European population are much less likely to take that fight sitting down, and will eventually crack if their plutocrats push too far.  All they have to do is point at a brown person.
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Dec 19, 2019 10:45
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Zombiepop posted:LOL goddamn, u really hate country folks. Weird. With a few notable exceptions, country folk are each country's base for the republicans/tories/CSU and stir poo poo up to stop any kind of change whatsoever.
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Dec 19, 2019 11:00
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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SplitSoul posted:
it's darkly funny how accurate this is
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Dec 19, 2019 11:11
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Tesseraction posted:darkly funny 
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Dec 19, 2019 11:35
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The EU sucks, I agree, yet it does do some good things for the common European. After dealing with literal third-world telecom infrastructure across three different continents for the last ten years and barely missing the move to fiber optic in each of my places of residence, my podunk mountain town full of olds in Spain is finally getting fiber internet infrastructure installed because of a EU development fund. Soon I will be able to shitpost at the same speed as the rest of the civilized world!
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Dec 19, 2019 11:53
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The EU vastly benefited the post-Communist countries, only pity is that it allowed places like Hungary and Poland to go fash in order to keep their majority in the EUparl.
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Dec 19, 2019 12:56
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it sounds like we need less EUrope and more WErope
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Dec 19, 2019 14:46
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Sulla Faex posted:it sounds like we need less EUrope and more WErope Because it's so much more enlightened. sidelong glance at Denmark, Germany (austerity-wise), Italy, UK and the Netherlands (Wilders and burqa bans) e: or the French burqa bans, for that matter Private Speech fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 15:52
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Private Speech posted:Because it's so much more enlightened. you sure read a lot into that joke
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Dec 19, 2019 16:23
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i say swears online posted:you sure read a lot into that joke Oh, whoops, I blame my wounded eastern european nationalist pride. It does get repeated unironically by some in the media to be fair.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:32
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Rural folk are throwing a shitfit in my country for maybe, possibly having to think about producing slightly less so the Earth doesn't fireball quite as fast. So yeah, gently caress em.
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Dec 19, 2019 19:07
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Private Speech posted:Because it's so much more enlightened. Or the Danish ban.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:54
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Dawncloack posted:I dont disagree with what you have said, but you imply, by omission, that the EU is not a collapsing neolib empire bent on siphoning out the money. Oh don't get me wrong, I agree wholeheartedly with your points, I'm just arguing that people who want to tear down the EU are short-sighted. We should work to improve the EU and restructure it, which will first have to start with improving the countries within. How depends on where you align on the political spectrum.
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Dec 19, 2019 21:34
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edit: whatever, I was just agreeing aggressively.
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Dec 19, 2019 21:59
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Croatian presidential elections are on Sunday. The big three: Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović, current pres Traditional right (HDZ). Lacks substance and intelligence, speaks in shallow and predictable slogans. Wants to act tough but can't because the PM Plenković is from her party and politically similar. Her voters (Hi, dad!) admire her looks - at the same time attractive and motherly. Zoran Milanović Traditional left (SDP). Former PM who was ineffective, argumentative, and pretentious. Miroslav Škoro Far right. Singer, wine maker, investor, talent show judge, politician, economist, comedian. I guess likes changing jobs? Relies on the right wing of HDZ, who feel Grabar-Kitarović and Plenković are too European and soft. Somewhat significant: Mislav Kolakušić Low ranking judge who spoke candidly about corruption in judicial system and attacked both main parties. Got a lot of attention for that and it made him a little crazy. Sees himself as a future pharaoh or something. Also running: Anto Đapić, far right politician who was influential in the 90's. I was honestly surprised that he was still alive. Katarina Peović, communist and former guitarist in a bad metal band. Dario Juričan, movie director who runs an absurdist campaign in which he fights for more corruption and idolizes the king of corruption, Zagreb's mayor Bandić. Ivan Pernar, semi literate youngster, an MP who's popular in some circles for being anti-establishment and obstructing parliament sessions until they physically carry him outside. Dalija Orešković, lawyer who used to head the conflict of interest board. Stood up against some important politicians. Lost her job but became briefly popular. Dejan Kovač, economist and post doc at Princeton. Promotes liberal and rational values. Nedjeljko Babić, some guy. tl;dr - None of this matters.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:13
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Belgium update: It's been over a year since the government resigned, over half a year since we had elections and the most progress we've had towards a new government is the acceptance that maybe perhaps the N-VA and PS have too many differences to form a coalition. Meanwhile the extreme Flemish nationalists of Vlaams Belang are up to 27% in Flanders, according to a recent poll. Together with N-VA they're just shy of 50%, so if this keeps up get ready for a terribly executed Flemish independence.
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Dec 20, 2019 12:38
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Doctor Malaver posted:Zoran Milanović Since Zoran seems to be the least worst, what's the likelihood of him winning? Also I tried to look up the metal band and all I can find is she does a lot of writing? Or has it been conveniently scrubbed from her Wikipage?
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Dec 20, 2019 12:52
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nimby posted:Belgium update: Proposal: trade Flanders for Scotland
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Dec 20, 2019 13:04
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Sulla Faex posted:Proposal: trade Flanders for Scotland There's a Ned Flanders joke in here somewhere but I'm not Scottish enough to come up with it.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:06
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nimby posted:Belgium update: What's the opinion and attitude of the non-Flemish people about this?
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Dec 20, 2019 13:07
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An independent Flanders will be a bigger clusterfuck than Brexit. So I expect it to happen shortly.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:08
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Angry Lobster posted:What's the opinion and attitude of the non-Flemish people about this? "No more Geert Wilders?  "
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Dec 20, 2019 13:09
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Tesseraction posted:"No more Geert Wilders? Uhh what? That motherfucker would probably be pushing for a Greater Netherlands within seconds of Flemish independence.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:12
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Tesseraction posted:There's a Ned Flanders joke in here somewhere but I'm not Scottish enough to come up with it. Geert Wilders: "stupid sexy Flanders" Ned: "orrite neighbourino"
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Dec 20, 2019 13:14
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Angry Lobster posted:What's the opinion and attitude of the non-Flemish people about this? The opinion poll in Wallonia indicates they're going harder to the (far) left. So one region is going nationalist neo-liberal, the other enviro-commie.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:15
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what's the plan on brussels in the case of independence?
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Dec 20, 2019 13:16
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Orange Devil posted:Uhh what? I mean, I would be absolutely there to watch a bunch of nationalists get stomped. Europe's overdue a bit of internal bloodshed.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:17
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Tesseraction posted:Since Zoran seems to be the least worst, what's the likelihood of him winning? He's a centrist that really likes neoliberal policies with occasional but plays like an enlightened leftist. Imagine Tony Blair but more articulate and aggressive. And will he win? I don't think so, he will get trounced in the second round by Skoro and by KGK. He is really unpopular, and for s good reason. Tesseraction posted:Also I tried to look up the metal band and all I can find is she does a lot of writing? Or has it been conveniently scrubbed from her Wikipage? https://youtu.be/CX09adT4GUI She's basically a socdem, but our overton window is so to the right that anyone who doesn't give sloppy blowjobs to capitalism and the rich is called a goddamned commie. She's good (with some blind spots tho), it's just a bloody shame she will probably end up dead last. We have a choice between Theresa May but a bit dumber and more fashy, Trump that's not completely repulsive and Emmanuel Macron but without the popularity or charm. In short, we are hosed.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:22
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Gervasius posted:He's a centrist that really likes neoliberal policies with occasional but plays like an enlightened leftist. Imagine Tony Blair but more articulate and aggressive. And will he win? I don't think so, he will get trounced in the second round by Skoro and by KGK. He is really unpopular, and for s good reason. Ewwwwwww. Oh man that's not even entertainingly bad. It's just crap Guns and Roses. Gervasius posted:She's basically a socdem, but our overton window is so to the right that anyone who doesn't give sloppy blowjobs to capitalism and the rich is called a goddamned commie.  , sorry to hear you're following the global trend
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Dec 20, 2019 13:25
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nimby posted:The opinion poll in Wallonia indicates they're going harder to the (far) left. So one region is going nationalist neo-liberal, the other enviro-commie. Interesting times indeed. V. Illych L. posted:what's the plan on brussels in the case of independence? I won't be suprised if the plan is independence from the other two regions as well, would suit perfectly the current trend.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:56
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watch flanders institute a blockade of brussels when the EU does something they don't like
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Dec 20, 2019 13:57
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Nobody has given any real thought as to what to do with Brussels. Or if they have it's such a laughably one-sided deal that it'll never happen. The French speaking community has more influence in Brussels and they've taken to calling themselves the federation Wallonie-Bruxelles, but that'd be such an economic suicide I don't see even the most ardent Flemish nationalist let that happen.
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Dec 20, 2019 14:08
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Guessing that Flanders gains its independence, France absorbs Wallonia, and after Flanders completely fucks up as an independent country, the Netherlands absorbs them into their fold rest in piss Belgium
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Dec 20, 2019 14:09
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Venomous posted:Guessing that Flanders gains its independence, France absorbs Wallonia, and after Flanders completely fucks up as an independent country, the Netherlands absorbs them into their fold This presumes that: A) France wants Wallonia and B) The Netherlands wants Flanders I'm not convinced of either.
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Dec 20, 2019 14:25
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V. Illych L. posted:what's the plan on brussels in the case of independence? Civil war
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Dec 20, 2019 14:32
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Gervasius posted:She's basically a socdem, but our overton window is so to the right that anyone who doesn't give sloppy blowjobs to capitalism and the rich is called a goddamned commie. - She announced that some successful and important privately owned companies will be nationalized. - She's the candidate of the party named Worker's Front. - They fly red flags with yellow hammer and sickle. - RF's Mate Kapović was recorded explaining to an inner circle of party members that they have to approach small business owners by saying that they were against big business. However once RF takes power, all private owned business will be the enemy. Later the video disappeared from YT and dissenting members were thrown out. He never apologized or explained and is still in the party leadership. - Bringing down capitalism is literally in the party long term program. - They routinely criticize successful and popular Croatian business people (regardless of how happy their employees are) just because they are exponents of capitalism. If that's not how communism looks like in 2019, I'd like you to describe it.
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Dec 20, 2019 16:24
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