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Gantolandon posted:Moreover, Palpatine coming back is boring. We already saw this guy reaching ultimate power, we saw his master plan unraveling because he underestimated a young Jedi and didn't control his pawn as much as he wanted. TROS is pretty much regurgitated ROTJ, only instead of a powerful Emperor who controls the entire galaxy, the protagonists confront his shriveled husk threatening them through pirate broadcasts. The First Order is literally Disney and Abrams just needing a setup to do a New Hope Again. There is no reason ever given why the Imperial Remnant just gets that strong and has openly brought the New Republic to it's knees other than it it has to to make the dumb rehash plot work, or why the First Order would ever blow up the former capital of the Galactic Empire and economic hub of the entire Galaxy, possibly setting back galactic development for untold decades, other than "hey Alderaan got blown up, we need to blow a planet up" It's Abrams blowing up Vulcan again for no real reason other than artificially raising the stakes to an extreme way The sad thing is I think Rey, Kylo, Finn, Po etc. Can all be interesting characters, but Disney and Abrams were content with just rehashing loving everything TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 15:33
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Mat Cauthon posted:Are the Duel of the Fates remix or the rework of the Emperor's Theme that were used in a bunch of the trailers not in the score?
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Dec 19, 2019 15:44
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TulliusCicero posted:The First Order is literally Disney and Abrams just needing a setup to do a New Hope Again. There is no reason ever given why the Imperial Remnant just gets that strong and has openly brought the New Republic to it's knees other than it it has to to make the dumb rehash plot work, or why the First Order would ever blow up the former capital of the Galactic Empire and economic hub of the entire Galaxy, possibly setting back galactic development for untold decades, other than "hey Alderaan got blown up, we need to blow a planet up" That's why I consider Abrams a much worse director than Johnson. The latter at least had some original ideas. They didn't push out and their execution was awkward, but at least he didn't try to make the same movies that had been already made in the seventies.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:45
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The new trilogy is boring as gently caress because, as other posters said, it’s just “a new hope, empire, and return of the jedi” rehashed. You have unlimited money and resources and a HUGE universe of which to draw on for ideas and the best Disney/Abrams could come up with was “lets redo the OT but worse” It’s extra frustrating because the characters had a lot of potential but seem to be wasted. Like as much as people give the prequels poo poo (and they should) at least Lucas tried to do something different with them and there was a general narrative arc (the fall of Anakin). Blah. Ill wait to see TRoS in January too many other good films coming out this month.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:47
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Gantolandon posted:That's why I consider Abrams a much worse director than Johnson. The latter at least had some original ideas. They didn't push out and their execution was awkward, but at least he didn't try to make the same movies that had been already made in the seventies. I feel like Johnson at some point got hit by disney and the film's plot and ideas got changed hard, because the editing and pacing in TLJ is legit wierd. I honesy feel bad for Johnson and the writing staff, becaue Abrams left an incoherent and inconsistent mess for them to put the pieces together of to make anything resembling an overall arc for the trilogy, with no explanation or idea of how plot points connect or who some new characters even are I don't like TLJ all that much, but at least Johnson tried something different. Abrams makes the same movie beat for beat TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 15:48
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Mat Cauthon posted:Are the Duel of the Fates remix or the rework of the Emperor's Theme that were used in a bunch of the trailers not in the score? The trailer stuff is not the score stuff, but Duel of the Fates kind of sneaks in mixed in with the Imperial theme somewhere, but not super bombastically obvious (it's way more obviously used when Maul first catches up to everyone on Tatooine, as a comparison). Note that I'm referring only to the soundtrack album; not the full movie score in the film itself, which could possibly have better/more usage of stuff. I mean, the funniest thing to me is in the album, at least, Rose's theme, which was an entire track and focus in the last score, wasn't heard once, or at least I didn't notice it. That would be like if Leia's theme never got woven into Jedi or something.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:48
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Darko posted:I mean, the funniest thing to me is in the album, at least, Rose's theme, which was an entire track and focus in the last score, wasn't heard once, or at least I didn't notice it. That would be like if Leia's theme never got woven into Jedi or something.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:52
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Cant decide if the Johnson apologism or the "They are kids movies aniways" are the best hot takes in this thread. Johnson , Jar Jar and Kennedy are all to blame for this trillogy as is Bob Igor for letting it get so far. TFA layed out a brittle boned foundation that Johnson was very eager to crush in the name of subverting expectations - which seems to be the entire motivation behind TLJ - and giving zero fucks how the so important middle piece would connect the opener with a conclusive end, which would have been on kennedys desk to assure. I got Rogue One out of Disney Star Wars that i love, which is more than i expected and the Mando is very enjoyable too in my opinion. The ST started weak, had a stupid middle part and ended as a joke. And everyone involved is to blame.
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Dec 19, 2019 15:56
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Rogue One is bad
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Dec 19, 2019 15:58
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I think Johnson could have made a decent trilogy if it was all his stuff, but his ideas didn't mesh well with Abrams, and Disney not having an overarching plan or being so willing to just go 'meh whatever do what you want' with multiple directors for a trilogy made things a lot worse. Like that's the silliest bit of the whole thing to me. Disney decided to make a trilogy without any sort of plan and somehow hosed up both on making a safe series of films that probably would have done well a la the MCU or something more out there at the same time. Gorelab fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 16:00
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TulliusCicero posted:The First Order is literally Disney and Abrams just needing a setup to do a New Hope Again. There is no reason ever given why the Imperial Remnant just gets that strong and has openly brought the New Republic to it's knees other than it it has to to make the dumb rehash plot work, or why the First Order would ever blow up the former capital of the Galactic Empire and economic hub of the entire Galaxy, possibly setting back galactic development for untold decades, other than "hey Alderaan got blown up, we need to blow a planet up" They didn't blow up Coruscant, they blew up some bullshit called Hosnian Prime that no one has ever heard of, real emotional impact there.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:01
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clown shoes posted:Rogue One is bad i never said it was good, im not a movie critic or an Industry Insider. i said i love it. And the audience scores put it equal to TFA and (dare i make that prediction already) far above the rest of the ST Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 16:01
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Potential BFF posted:They didn't blow up Coruscant, they blew up some bullshit called Hosnian Prime that no one has ever heard of, real emotional impact there. Wait, that huge city planet wasn't even Coruscant or Corellia? Lmao "We will now destroy this former space cow farm planet, to show you how serious we are!" That has to be a post production retcon right? TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 16:02
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Combat Theory posted:Cant decide if the Johnson apologism or the "They are kids movies aniways" are the best hot takes in this thread. Easily the worst post I've read in fifty pages
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Dec 19, 2019 16:03
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It's kinda weird that the Star Wars producers come down super hard on some directors messing with the formula while also not giving a poo poo about working out the basic plot of their big trilogy. It's almost like they're totally incompetent.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:03
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Combat Theory posted:Cant decide if the Johnson apologism or the "They are kids movies aniways" are the best hot takes in this thread. I don't buy this argument, because JJ Abrams made 66% of the new trilogy and didn't manage to add anything even remotely original. Every single part of the plot in his movies was copied from somewhere else, but worse. I'm pretty sure if he also got a middle part, it would pan out as less coherent Empire Strikes Back.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:05
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Rogue One had bits and pieces of an amazing movie but you can tell it was gutted to poo poo. Solo was a disaster as soon as the late as gently caress trailers came out and all the news of Lord and Miller getting fired spread like wildfire.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:07
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Combat Theory posted:Cant decide if the Johnson apologism or the "They are kids movies aniways" are the best hot takes in this thread.  if you think Abrams had any idea where he was going with anything in The Force Awakens other than "BAD GUY EXPLODING PLANET"
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Dec 19, 2019 16:07
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So I didn't expect the more casual fans to latch on to "So in Rise of the Skywalker, the Skywalkers are all killed and then a Palpatine takes the name" as an issue. Not because it isn't the stupidest conclusion, but I actually didn't expect Casual fans to... make that jump.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:07
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Combat Theory posted:Cant decide if the Johnson apologism or the "They are kids movies aniways" are the best hot takes in this thread. It was a stupid foundation that was just going to give us the same cookie cutter stuff that would lead to the last movie being Return of the Jedi with Snoke subbed in for the Emperor. There are a million more interesting things you can do with a third movie with a setup of "There is no real Resistance anymore, but Luke's sacrifice is inspiring a new generation of new Lukes (I don't know HOW that kid heard about it, but whatever) and now the protagonists are finally together and might actually get to become friends," combined with "angsty teen is running the galaxy completely unopposed and unbound by an old, decrepit Sith master dude, how does this affect his personality over time and what kind of villain would this create." TLJ had its issues, but changing course is the best thing that it did. What you can blame Johnson for, I guess, is being too shortsighted to realize that current film studios aren't letting this kind of course correction happen to tent poles and would inevitably roll it back to standard.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:07
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Necrothatcher posted:It's kinda weird that the Star Wars producers come down super hard on some directors messing with the formula while also not giving a poo poo about working out the basic plot of their big trilogy. I'm pretty sure this is what they did with the MCU too. Endgame really felt like they threw it together in an afternoon after Infinity War.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:08
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Gantolandon posted:I don't buy this argument, because JJ Abrams made 66% of the new trilogy and didn't manage to add anything even remotely original. Every single part of the plot in his movies was copied from somewhere else, but worse. I'm pretty sure if he also got a middle part, it would pan out as less coherent Empire Strikes Back. i Agree, but that doesnt make TLJ better in my books. JJ cant come up with new Ideas and Johnson lost it as a director of a single middle movie. the accredition of both in this order was a mistake. And if i dare making that prediction, a JJ trillogy would have equally sucked if not more.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:10
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Gantolandon posted:I don't buy this argument, because JJ Abrams made 66% of the new trilogy and didn't manage to add anything even remotely original. Every single part of the plot in his movies was copied from somewhere else, but worse. I'm pretty sure if he also got a middle part, it would pan out as less coherent Empire Strikes Back. Again, this is the guy that just had to use Khan again, for no reason except because it had been done before, even though there were like a hundred other augments that could be used. Also the Spock/Kirk role reversal sacrifice scene that we totally didn't see coming.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I'm pretty sure this is what they did with the MCU too. Endgame really felt like they threw it together in an afternoon after Infinity War. Here's a dirty narrative creation secret: endings should be easy. Don't fall on your face and close most threads as simple as possible. Breaking Bad did it and is universally beloved. ROTJ did it and is fondly remembered despite most of that movie being pointless schlock. It's when you try to be clever with your ending when it fails spectacularly, because you want to be one of the select few who manages a clever ending. Sherlock, Mass Effect... Endgame did exactly what it needed, which was close the story and don't ruin anything. As a result, while it's functionally equivalent to being dead for 3 hours but you're eating popcorn, it got a good reaction. The issue here is the blatant ignoring of anything before this movie in order to make it fit the ROTJ formula.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:15
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clown shoes posted:Rogue One is bad It's incredible they made a movie where the lead was just in jail for a decade and definitely not committing terrorism like her surrogate father look stop asking questions , terrorism is bad ok
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Dec 19, 2019 16:16
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I've never listened to Rey's theme before and it's incredibly bland. So yeah, John Williams absolutely nailed the character with it, great work by him once again
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Dec 19, 2019 16:20
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Darko posted:Again, this is the guy that just had to use Khan again, for no reason except because it had been done before, even though there were like a hundred other augments that could be used. Also the Spock/Kirk role reversal sacrifice scene that we totally didn't see coming. But that was "Visionary" to have Khan not be the bad guy (except he was in in the most obvious plot twist ever, and he has absolutely no reason to hate Kirk at all) It would have actually been more interesting if Khan genuinely needed Kirk's help and went in a completely different direction, or just do something you loving came up with on your own, but that would require creativity, soooo Again, this trilogy could have gone in a a number of different interesting ways, but Abrams went "hey let's do Return of the Jedi again! Get that old guy in the chair!"
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Dec 19, 2019 16:20
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Combat Theory posted:TFA layed out a brittle boned foundation that Johnson was very eager to crush in the name of subverting expectations - which seems to be the entire motivation behind TLJ - and giving zero fucks how the so important middle piece would connect the opener with a conclusive end, which would have been on kennedys desk to assure. At least TLJ tried something new, which is more than can be said for the other two movies. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 16:20
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clown shoes posted:Rogue One is bad Rogue One is a better spectacle than TFA, TLJ, or TROS. Is it a good movie? Eh, a little. Is it fun as hell to watch the ship battles in that movie? gently caress yeah. Popcorn movie.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:22
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the dead speak!
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Dec 19, 2019 16:22
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So, just got back. I am pissed about how they wasted Finn. The whole thing with the ex-stormtroopers on Endor is basically taking the idea of Finn leading a stormtrooper rebellion and doing it in a way that makes him completely irrelevant. Did they desert because he inspired them? Nope! Does he convince them to join the Resistance? Nope! Does it do anything other than minimize Finn's status as a uniquely moral individual who could break through the Empire's indoctrination? Nope! All it does is mean that in the final battle, he's reduced to just another face in the crowd. Oh, and also they tease that he's going to confess his feelings to Rey when they're facing death, but it goes nowhere. Gotta leave her pure for Kid Fascist, after all! Plus, we get the second film in a row where Finn infiltrates an enemy ship and his background never proves useful or interesting. Bleh. I'd forgive a lot of the rest of this mess if they'd at least done something interesting with the guy.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:24
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Pollyanna posted:Rogue One is a better spectacle than TFA, TLJ, or TROS. Is it a good movie? Eh, a little. Is it fun as hell to watch the ship battles in that movie? gently caress yeah. Rogue One could have been great if they spent any of the run time establishing the character's motivations and personalities at all, so we actually give a poo poo if they die, and not just "HERE'S YAVIN 4, TIE FIGHTERS!"
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Dec 19, 2019 16:25
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Onmi posted:So I didn't expect the more casual fans to latch on to "So in Rise of the Skywalker, the Skywalkers are all killed and then a Palpatine takes the name" as an issue. Not because it isn't the stupidest conclusion, but I actually didn't expect Casual fans to... make that jump. Are you sure they’re taking an issue with it? Most casual fans I see are crying like they just won an Academy Award for watching a Star Wars movie, as if that was an accomplishment.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:25
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mastershakeman posted:It's incredible they made a movie where the lead was just in jail for a decade and definitely not committing terrorism like her surrogate father look stop asking questions , terrorism is bad ok I enjoyed Rogue One despite the obvious reshoots and huge problems with the movie, but I still want to see the version where Jyn is a hardened teen terrorist instead of just "random naif with an important last name who happens to have incredible combat skills". As it stands it's still the most entertaining of the latter day movies.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:26
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Pollyanna posted:At least TLJ tried something new, which is more than can be days for the other two movies. That may just be my opinion but i dont dig participation trophies for multi Billion Dollar Entertainment projects.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:26
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It feels like I haven't seen the movie yet and it was just a weird boring dream I had last night.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:26
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I still don't get the appeal of Reylo as like an actual thing, by the by. Like at least for the first two films being a conflicted guy on the side of Space Nazis is still a dude who's down with a lot of really horrid poo poo, even if you can understand why he is angry as poo poo at Luke/the Jedi et all.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:27
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Disney shoots first drafts. Why? Because they work with IP that A) makes a billion dollars almost every time, and B) they reboot and retell everything. Don't worry, they'll do a proper Star Wars reboot in like 2035. Meanwhile they're going to bounce ideas off Disney+. Hell, that's their strong suit, when they actually have an entire roadmap to work from. I fully expect the new episodes 1-9 to be superior second drafts.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:27
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Mat Cauthon posted:I enjoyed Rogue One despite the obvious reshoots and huge problems with the movie, but I still want to see the version where Jyn is a hardened teen terrorist instead of just "random naif with an important last name who happens to have incredible combat skills". This. She operated with a Rebel terrorist cell against the Empire for years. Give us that. Show us these characters' backstories It's like they were afraid of doing underworld Star Wars, and as the Mandalorian proves, that's the most interesting poo poo
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Dec 19, 2019 16:27
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TulliusCicero posted:But that was "Visionary" to have Khan not be the bad guy (except he was in in the most obvious plot twist ever, and he has absolutely no reason to hate Kirk at all) Never mind that they had to call Old Spock so he could explain why Khan was bad, because the movie had no idea how to bring that across.
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