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The Last Jedi was a decent idea that didn’t stick its landing at all and it’s not entirely Rian Johnson’s fault.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:43
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sean10mm posted:I agree with this, and feel like that movie has a great look/feel/texture to it for the reasons you described. Especially everything involving Luke/Rey/Kylo. Holdo should've been Leia. Would've helped sell the conflict of new fan favorite versus old fan favorite without the need to explain who the character was, and her big sacrifice would've meant more than just looking cool. The only thing you lose is her interacting with not-Luke at the end, which is eh anyway. It also solves having to find ways to film a dead actress into the third movie but obviously that wasn't a problem they were expecting.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:46
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I dunno if Fisher killing herself in both the movie and in real life would've gone over very well
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Dec 19, 2019 16:50
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Hobo Clown posted:Holdo should've been Leia. Would've helped sell the conflict of new fan favorite versus old fan favorite without the need to explain who the character was, and her big sacrifice would've meant more than just looking cool. The only thing you lose is her interacting with not-Luke at the end, which is eh anyway. It also solves having to find ways to film a dead actress into the third movie but obviously that wasn't a problem they were expecting. Agree 100%. Also it's not hard to imagine reasons WHY Poe would start to crack under the pressure of a forever war against space nazis where every victory ends up being hollow and your friends keep dying, but none of this is actually explored at all so his arc has no weight and makes no sense. In fact he hardly has any inner conflict until his spontaneous epiphany at the end, and just seems to like being loving dumb now.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:53
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Hobo Clown posted:Holdo should've been Leia. Would've helped sell the conflict of new fan favorite versus old fan favorite without the need to explain who the character was, and her big sacrifice would've meant more than just looking cool. The only thing you lose is her interacting with not-Luke at the end, which is eh anyway. It also solves having to find ways to film a dead actress into the third movie but obviously that wasn't a problem they were expecting. Could've had her reach out to Luke using the Force, and he could've communicated back to her.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:58
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I rewatched TLJ in anticipation of seeing the new movie tomorrow night. I enjoyed Canto Bight more on a rewatch. I still don't know why Holdo kept her plan under wraps. I still enjoyed the throne room fight. My biggest problem with the film is that the "hopeful" bits fell completely flat with me. "Our movement has been totally destroyed, but we'll be the spark that starts the revolution" is not a hopeful circumstance. I know what that looks like in actual history, and it means that you're decades away from achieving anything. I know with metaphysical certainty that the last film is going to involve the Rebellion (Resistance? I don't know) coming back and defeating the First Order, and I have no idea how they're going to plausibly do that. (Yeah, I know, it's Star Wars. But ANH establishes the military/political reality in a way that makes sense with a few lines of dialogue.) Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 16:59
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Halloween Jack posted:I know what that looks like in actual history, and it means that you're at least a generation away from achieving anything. Exactly, we're at least a generation away from Disney doing a full reboot
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Dec 19, 2019 17:03
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Steve Yun posted:Mandalorian swings wildly in quality based on the writer/director. If you bounced because of how bad 3-5 were, please give 6 a try. Who the hell thinks the 3rd episode was bad? I mean, I can see spacing out a bit on 4 and 5, but 3 was amazing. And yes, 6 and 7 also rule.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:05
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thrawn527 posted:Who the hell thinks the 3rd episode was bad? I mean, I can see spacing out a bit on 4 and 5, but 3 was amazing. Episodes 4, 5 & 6 are very much the usual "mid-season streaming TV show filler" meant to pad out the episode count without advancing the story any. 6 is a blast though so it's forgivable.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:10
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Telling anodyne Western stories in Star Wars is honestly a very good holding pattern to be in considering the writing of the films, and I'd still be happy to watch multiple seasons of The Mandalorian just cycling through that.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:13
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The prison ship was kinda boring and I didn't like the reusing of the same old hallway. But to each their own. It's still a fantastic show. My faves have been last nights and the Return to Tatooine.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:14
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Vintersorg posted:The prison ship was kinda boring and I didn't like the reusing of the same old hallway. But to each their own. It's still a fantastic show. My faves have been last nights and the Return to Tatooine. One thing I did like about it was the added scale of how even these most badass of the criminal underworld folks are going to get completely obliterated by even the most stock rebellion/imperial forces if they draw too much attention. The Seven Samurai episode was like that too. EDIT: Sorry about that Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 17:34
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Keep in mind, there's a star wars spoilers thread. I still haven't seen Mando cause we're trying to finish our Sopranos rewatch first
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Dec 19, 2019 17:36
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I’d rather have these movies have the joy of Star Wars with flaws than the lifeless crowd pleasers that are most marvel movies.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:36
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That because Marvel movies are supposed to be brainless schlock, that’s the entire point.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:50
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thrawn527 posted:Who the hell thinks the 3rd episode was bad? I mean, I can see spacing out a bit on 4 and 5, but 3 was amazing. It’s me, I think the series is bad (well at least 1-4, I quit watching)
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Dec 19, 2019 18:17
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Well I’ve caught the flu or possibly the goddamn plague, so I guess I’ll sit at home and rewatch some Star Wars films rather than hacking my lungs out in the cinema and not being able to enjoy the new film on whatever level it’s actually decent.
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Dec 19, 2019 18:17
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I’m not seeing the film until the day after Xmas so I’m hoping this thread will remain spoiler free. I guess I’m rolling the dice at this point but oh well
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Dec 19, 2019 18:19
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Colonel Whitey posted:I’m not seeing the film until the day after Xmas so I’m hoping this thread will remain spoiler free. I guess I’m rolling the dice at this point but oh well This thread will have more black bars than the Mueller report after around 7pm tonight
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Dec 19, 2019 19:00
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There is a spoiler thread in this forum too
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Dec 19, 2019 19:01
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I thought the movie comes out at midnight tonight?
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Dec 19, 2019 19:02
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Pollyanna posted:I thought the movie comes out at midnight tonight? My showing starts at 6:30pm. The idea of "midnight release" got a little fluid over the past decade
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Dec 19, 2019 19:05
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Yeah I’m hoping spoiler chat will be contained to the other thread, and people will post some general spoiler free impressions here
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Dec 19, 2019 19:07
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Halloween Jack posted:I rewatched TLJ in anticipation of seeing the new movie tomorrow night. I enjoyed Canto Bight more on a rewatch. I still don't know why Holdo kept her plan under wraps. I still enjoyed the throne room fight. Except it also is implied (if not outright stated) that they actually have many allies who if they join together might have a fighting chance against the FO, but are holding back out of fear. They get to Crait and are depressed as they aren't hearing from their allies, but the end of TLJ points to the allies regaining hope, which means the next movie would be the allies coming together and joining the fight. It's only about two lines of dialog through so it's easy to miss.
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Dec 19, 2019 19:15
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Also I think part of the idea is that Luke’s actions on Crait will inspire people
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Dec 19, 2019 19:18
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Bongo Bill posted:Also can't quite put my finger on the tone of anything they were going for with Finn. Is he trying to act cool because he's trying to figure out who he wants to be? His whole infiltration arc is shot like a joke, only the punchline is he's gonna get executed. It's the closest this series has come to situational comedy (outside of Solo, an aborted spoof). My understanding is that there was originally much more written for Finn, something about his departure causing the other stormtroopers to think about defecting (hence why Phasma wants to make such a meal of brutally executing him) and the Finn/Phasma fight after the lightspeed attack was originally the climax of a full-on stormtrooper revolution. I haven't looked much behind the scenes but one problem with the writing and pacing seemed to be that Johnson forgot to only write one movie and they to cut the final script way down
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Dec 19, 2019 19:34
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How cool would it have been if instead of the casino zone they had Finn and Rose infiltrate the FO ship using Finn’s insider know-how, and had to evade Phasma and get off before the ship was destroyed? It would have played out largely the same, they could have had DJ be a prisoner on the ship and had to break him out in sort of a call back to ANH (maybe too much? I dunno). This would have created a larger role for Phasma and a better personal connection to the action for Finn. They would have had to scrap the broom boy inspirational and war profiteering angle but having them inspire stormtroopers to defect instead would have been awesome.
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Dec 19, 2019 19:41
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Colonel Whitey posted:How cool would it have been if instead of the casino zone they had Finn and Rose infiltrate the FO ship using Finn’s insider know-how, and had to evade Phasma and get off before the ship was destroyed? It would have played out largely the same, they could have had DJ be a prisoner on the ship and had to break him out in sort of a call back to ANH (maybe too much? I dunno). This would have created a larger role for Phasma and a better personal connection to the action for Finn. They would have had to scrap the broom boy inspirational and war profiteering angle but having them inspire stormtroopers to defect instead would have been awesome. But then we wouldn't have gotten an ultimately meaningless mention of the military industrial complex and another ultimately pointless horse chase.
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Dec 19, 2019 19:49
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Colonel Whitey posted:How cool would it have been if instead of the casino zone they had Finn and Rose infiltrate the FO ship using Finn’s insider know-how, and had to evade Phasma and get off before the ship was destroyed? It would have played out largely the same, they could have had DJ be a prisoner on the ship and had to break him out in sort of a call back to ANH (maybe too much? I dunno). This would have created a larger role for Phasma and a better personal connection to the action for Finn. They would have had to scrap the broom boy inspirational and war profiteering angle but having them inspire stormtroopers to defect instead would have been awesome. It would also have added to Luke's disappearing act humiliating the supreme leader in front of his own men. Johnson you hack!!
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Dec 19, 2019 19:53
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I still think the movie was great but it definitely could have been improved in that area.
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Dec 19, 2019 19:55
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About the lightspeed ram: that's totally a call back to TFA, right? In TFA: Kylo tries to get Rey on his side. As Rey violently refuses, the planet they're on violently splits apart. In TLJ: Kylo and Rey almost join sides, before it becomes evident that there's too much ideological disagreement. As they push against each other, the First Order fleet is violently split apart.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:07
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Colonel Whitey posted:I still think the movie was great but it definitely could have been improved in that area. You can say that about all of them. TFA, for example: Rey could've been the abandoned child who instead was raised by Von Sydow. Kylo shows up because Von Sydow a datachip to Luke's location. Von Sydow passes it the datachip onto Rey, and tells her to escape with while Kylo orders the execution of the village. Now Rey's being pursued by Troopers, fights some of them off with rudimentary Force use, but when it seems like she's outnumbered, she's rescued by Han and Chewie, who swoop in in the Falcon. Han, who isn't separated from Leia (because that whole plot point was pointless), has been searching for his son, and has arrived on Jakku because he heard reports of the FO's attack, and rumors that Kylo was there. Rey confirms that he was, mentions that he was searching for someone called Skywalker, and Han invites her aboard the Falcon just as TIE Fighters arrive ...
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Dec 19, 2019 20:11
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theblackw0lf posted:Except it also is implied (if not outright stated) that they actually have many allies who if they join together might have a fighting chance against the FO, but are holding back out of fear. They get to Crait and are depressed as they aren't hearing from their allies, but the end of TLJ points to the allies regaining hope, which means the next movie would be the allies coming together and joining the fight. Figures.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:15
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Disney doesn't care if their movies are well received by critics, they care if audiences want to give them a billion dollars. So TLJ being critically well received doesn't mean poo poo to them. Fortunately, it still made a billion dollars, and if audiences like this movie and give them a billion dollars, Disney is happy with it. All their live action remakes get tanked critically, still audiences pump a billion dollars into them so it does not matter. Like this isn't a cynical take, it is what it is.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:25
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Donovan Trip posted:Disney doesn't care if their movies are well received by critics, they care if audiences want to give them a billion dollars. So TLJ being critically well received doesn't mean poo poo to them. Fortunately, it still made a billion dollars, and if audiences like this movie and give them a billion dollars, Disney is happy with it. An excellent take, and a compelling reason not to give Disney any more money.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:30
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Bogus Adventure posted:An excellent take, and a compelling reason not to give Disney any more money. This could be applied to every studio.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:33
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It really, really couldn't. Yes, all studios want to make a profit and to keep creating. No, not all studios operate like Disney to get there.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:34
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They know all this but they are still feeling the heat from the bad reviews but yeah Aladdin made a billion loving dollars. But it isn't like they don't know they need to make better movies. Live posting from inside the belly of the beast, btw.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:39
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Donovan Trip posted:Disney doesn't care if their movies are well received by critics, they care if audiences want to give them a billion dollars. So TLJ being critically well received doesn't mean poo poo to them. Fortunately, it still made a billion dollars, and if audiences like this movie and give them a billion dollars, Disney is happy with it. What's your point?
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Dec 19, 2019 20:39
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Apparently it’s out today not tomorrow, so I was off by a day  I’ll prolly still go see it tomorrow because train wreck etc. Might cancel actually, depends on audience score.
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Dec 19, 2019 20:42
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