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Pochoclo posted:Christ. "casually eating surstromming" is not a sentence that should be humanly possible yet there it is Look at how he eats the red onion
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Dec 20, 2019 00:11
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Jose posted:Look at how he eats the red onion or does a shot of fermented fish juice. Man's an inspiration to us all
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Dec 20, 2019 00:13
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Yer man must have the constitution of a loving pressure cooker.
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Dec 20, 2019 00:22
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https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1207793313484554241?s=19
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Dec 20, 2019 00:47
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If you're writing to corbyn do you just send it to the palace of westminster?
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Dec 20, 2019 00:52
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OwlFancier posted:If you're really up for arguing I'd probably start with how they even define man/woman in the first place if not by social role performance. Is it not which part of the reproductive partnership they fulfill?
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Dec 20, 2019 01:04
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Jose posted:btw for anyone who ever needs cheering up i recommend pangzai. he eats and drinks some heinous stuff and also makes some heartwarming videos FWIW his name translates into taking a poo poo - literally 'leave poo poo'.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:05
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Jose posted:btw for anyone who ever needs cheering up i recommend pangzai. he eats and drinks some heinous stuff and also makes some heartwarming videos gently caress yeah that is the real North China right there. Seen so many guys like that dude but this is the first time seeing it in English. E: I think his name is 河北胖仔 (Hebei Fatboy). Him being from Hebei checks out - it’s the hinterlands of Beijing and hard guy culture there is mental. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 01:06
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Illuminti posted:Is it not which part of the reproductive partnership they fulfill? Raises some questions about people who are celibate/sterile/post menopausal/had a hysterectomy/vasectomy/orchidectomy/were born with sex organs not commonly found with their other physical traits.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:06
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https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1207699450279399425?s=21 Wow, this genuinely wasn't a tweet I expected to see, given how melty Maugham is.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:17
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OwlFancier posted:Raises some questions about people who are celibate/sterile/post menopausal/had a hysterectomy/vasectomy/orchidectomy/were born with sex organs not commonly found with their other physical traits. Not really. None of those things have any bearing on which part of the reproductive partnership you would fulfill. Unless you are saying effeminate men are not real men?
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Dec 20, 2019 01:24
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OwlFancier posted:If you're writing to corbyn do you just send it to the palace of westminster? Generic mail can be sent to Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP, House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA I think that'll get to him. I'm going to get up early tomorrow and send him a Christmas card.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:26
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Illuminti posted:Not really. None of those things have any bearing on which part of the reproductive partnership you would fulfill. Unless you are saying effeminate men are not real men? it's true, lots of sterile people reproduce all the time. its just biological facts
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Dec 20, 2019 01:27
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Illuminti posted:Not really. None of those things have any bearing on which part of the reproductive partnership you would fulfill. Unless you are saying effeminate men are not real men? Sounds like it's time to lay down some definitions, since what is a "reproductive partnership" if they can't reproduce?
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Dec 20, 2019 01:28
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Illuminti posted:Not really. None of those things have any bearing on which part of the reproductive partnership you would fulfill. Unless you are saying effeminate men are not real men? I'm saying that if you base gender on reproduction it causes a few problems for people who can't, won't, or don't reproduce, or who can't, won't, or don't do it in a way consistent with their social portrayal of gender... Your reproductive behaviour is entirely your own business and clearly is not how you gender people in day to day life. Unless you run around with a very elaborate set of medical instruments. namesake posted:Generic mail can be sent to Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP, House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA I might too.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:31
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Shakespearean Beef posted:it's true, lots of sterile people reproduce all the time. its just biological facts Well, down the hole I go.... So if a father gets a nasty accidental dose of radiation and becomes sterile he's no longer a man?
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Dec 20, 2019 01:35
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Illuminti posted:Well, down the hole I go.... You're the one who is arguing that gender is based on reproduction here... You tell me?
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Dec 20, 2019 01:37
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Tesla was right posted:Sounds like it's time to lay down some definitions, since what is a "reproductive partnership" if they can't reproduce? Ok the reproductive partnership is how a species creates offspring. Not referring to individuals in that species
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Dec 20, 2019 01:37
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OwlFancier posted:You're the one who is arguing that gender is based on reproduction here... You tell me? No I'm saying male and female are the two sexes of a species required to produce offspring. So yes. obviously he is still a man. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 20, 2019 01:40
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1207699450279399425?s=21 I've seen him come out in defence of Trans people before. He may be a melty centrist wanker but he does have at least some of a heart. Like as much as it pains me to say I don't think Maoam is actually a bad person as such. Somebody is probably going to post some seriously heinous poo poo he's said in response to this, now.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:40
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WhatEvil posted:I've seen him come out in defence of Trans people before. He may be a melty centrist wanker but he does have at least some of a heart. I don't stand with Maya, sounds like she is a horrible prick.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:52
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1207699450279399425?s=21 TBH it’s what we should expect; liberals should be at the forefront of minority group acceptance. What is weird is when people identify as liberals but hold socially conservative views on trans or other people.
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Dec 20, 2019 02:01
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Illuminti posted:No I'm saying male and female are the two sexes of a species required to produce offspring. According to your framework, where being a man or a woman is dependant on your reproductive capacity, I guess not?
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Dec 20, 2019 02:12
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Beefeater1980 posted:TBH it’s what we should expect; liberals should be at the forefront of minority group acceptance. What is weird is when people identify as liberals but hold socially conservative views on trans or other people. I dunno about that to be honest, I don't think there's a rule that says you have to be that as a liberal or that being that is especially liberal itself. I know that in recent history liberals have made it kind of their thing to a greater or lesser degree but I think that's mostly because they ran out of other things to argue about during the end of history 
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Dec 20, 2019 02:17
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Shakespearean Beef posted:According to your framework, where being a man or a woman is dependant on your reproductive capacity, I guess not? That's not what I'm saying though, I never said it was based on your ability to reproduce. I'm saying that in the species there are two sexes required to produce offspring. One is male and the other is female. Being sterile or having a vasectomy has nothing to do with it.
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Dec 20, 2019 02:20
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Illuminti posted:That's not what I'm saying though, I never said it was based on your ability to reproduce. I'm saying that in the species there are two sexes required to produce offspring. One is male and the other is female. Being sterile or having a vasectomy has nothing to do with it. They very much have everything to do with the ability to reproduce. The question being posited I believe is whether a vasectomy has any bearing on you being male or a man/a hysterectomy has any bearing on you being female or a woman, as far as I can tell. I think the answer is an obvious no, but I've been caught out with some centrist baggage in similar areas before so I'll happily stand corrected. E: Just gone back for another recap. It was you that set the parameters that the definition is by which part of the reproductive contract they fulfil. Which as is rightly being pointed out to you, nullifies like literally everyone without children, for whatever reason. NinpoEspiritoSanto fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 03:33
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You don't go around investigating people's reproductive role is the point, you look at how they dress, how they wear their hair, how they speak, how their body is shaped, and you make assumptions based on that. Because gender is a series of signifiers that you communicate to other people with the intent of getting them to identify you as your preferred gender. And this may have very little to do with how, if at all, they gently caress.
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Dec 20, 2019 03:38
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It's not whether or not you actively fulfill the male or female part of a reproductive cycle. It's what part you would take if it came to it. A man stuck on an island with no human contact for the rest of his life is still a man. I made it very clear what I meant by reproductive pair and the fact that you are all sticking to the idea that i meant literal reproduction resulting in a child doesn't exactly make me think you have much of a response. To be clear. If you were to take part in the production of biological offspring with another human your sex is determined by whether you would provide the eggs or the sperm.
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Dec 20, 2019 04:21
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So what if you can't provide either? Plenty of people can't for whatever reason. And sex != gender, too.
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Dec 20, 2019 04:23
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I forgot to make a guess for the election sweepstakes thing, i would have been wrong so thats £50 sent to my local food bank. gently caress the Torys.
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Dec 20, 2019 04:37
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OwlFancier posted:I dunno about that to be honest, I don't think there's a rule that says you have to be that as a liberal or that being that is especially liberal itself. I know that in recent history liberals have made it kind of their thing to a greater or lesser degree but I think that's mostly because they ran out of other things to argue about during the end of history I mean, Liberalism JS Mill style is that you let people make their own choices and interfere only to the extent necessary to make sure their choices don’t hurt others. Apply this to economics and you get turbocapitalism but apply it to minority groups in society and you get the principle that people get to choose who they want to be and how they want to live instead of having someone else tell them. To be clear, this isn’t an argument for Liberalism over Socialism as actually *helping* marginalised people requires concrete support, but this line of thought explains why liberals traditionally build the intellectual case that lifestyles currently thought of as alternative are actually good and normal.
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Dec 20, 2019 04:40
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I guess it depends whether you're dealing with capital L Liberals or just "people who don't want to take any principled stances so gravitate towards the most boring middle of the road status quo political position" Sort of like the labour party paradoxically is not full of militant syndicalists.
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Dec 20, 2019 04:46
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Illuminti posted:It's not whether or not you actively fulfill the male or female part of a reproductive cycle. It's what part you would take if it came to it. Dude why do you care?
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Dec 20, 2019 04:52
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OwlFancier posted:So what if you can't provide either? Plenty of people can't for whatever reason. You're just being disingenuous. If you could provide one or the other which would it be? In 99.9% of cases it is obvious. Unless there is some significant percentage of people wandering around producing eggs with a womb and sperm in their testes? Or even with a womb but no eggs and testes but no sperm. A sterile man is still a man and we all know it. Pretending this has in someway altered his sex is pointless I don't think I've used the word gender once.
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Dec 20, 2019 04:52
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Gonzo McFee posted:Dude why do you care? I'm just having a discussion. thanks for your input though
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Dec 20, 2019 04:53
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Illuminti posted:You're just being disingenuous. I'm not being at all disingenuous, you're the one who's advocating for this way of categorizing people and it's not one I subscribe to? I think that gender is performative, and I also note that I did start by talking about gender. So if you want to veer off into your own world that's on you. I also don't think that sex as reproduction is at all a rigorous concept of it. There absolutely are lots of people in the world who do not conform to that categorization and again, what about people who just can't reproduce? The idea of "if you could" makes no sense, what do you mean "if you could?" If you're born infertile what are you using to assume which reproductive capability you would have? Because I'm willing to bet it's just looking at people and loving guessing. If you have your reproductive capacity removed what then? Does having bollocks at one point in your life confer magical perpetual maleness or something in your weird reproduction based view of sex? If you don't like that your concepts of gender or sex don't make loving sense when you really examine them that's your problem. If you have to resort to "we all know it" then that suggests you don't have an actual rigorous concept of it and you just don't like thinking about it. Because I drat well know different. I don't think reproduction has anything to do with your gender and is a very incomplete concept of sex as well. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 04:57
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Glad to see that wanker got probated before he could build up to his  transphobia 
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Dec 20, 2019 06:43
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just realised most of the PLP will be fine with the boundry changes. controlled opposition, guaranteed job for life, then a nice post-parliamentary job as a consultant for some think tank set up by a saudi oil scion to launder his arms and child trafficking money. the most they'll have to do is pop up on twitter or newsnight every now and again to explain why we need to keep arming jihadis in syria or wherever the next imperial war is happening. probably catalania at this rate. as long as they can perform outrage they're golden. this is everything they ever wanted, no wonder they're delighted about the result. does make me wonder why we're getting invested in a leadership contest tho. like it literally does not matter anymore.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:07
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Beefeater1980 posted:I mean, Liberalism JS Mill style is that you let people make their own choices and interfere only to the extent necessary to make sure their choices don’t hurt others. Apply this to economics and you get turbocapitalism but apply it to minority groups in society and you get the principle that people get to choose who they want to be and how they want to live instead of having someone else tell them. Unless those minorities try to be something or live in a way that goes against the diktats of turbocapitalism, of course. Beefeater1980 posted:To be clear, this isn’t an argument for Liberalism over Socialism as actually *helping* marginalised people requires concrete support, but this line of thought explains why liberals traditionally build the intellectual case that lifestyles currently thought of as alternative are actually good and normal. When did this tradition become established, exactly?
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Dec 20, 2019 07:20
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John Locke is widely considered the father of Liberalism and thought slavery was fine, so no, liberalism definitely does not 'traditionally let minorities do as they wish' or whatever.
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Dec 20, 2019 08:21
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