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Angepain
Jul 13, 2012

what keeps happening to my clothes
this looks pretty damning

https://twitter.com/heatherisone/status/1208019082097942528

https://www.facebook.com/heatherpeto.rushcliffe.52/posts/608250319980703

quote:

As a Co-Chair of LGBT+ Labour I had to keep quiet during the election about my frustrations with the way regressive elements on the NEC and in the leader’s office undermined LGBT+ rights in the manifesto. They projected their own prejudices onto women & working-class voters as an excuse to incorporate a section in the manifesto vilifying transgender women and not having a separate LGBT+ manifesto.

Before coming to the offending section, I should say it is sexist and classist to claim women & the working-class are opposed to extending LGBT+ rights. Being LGBT+ is not restricted to a gender or class! Communities only turn on minorities when the quasi-fascists persuade them that one group's rights come at the expense of another. Trans rights do not take away from women’s rights, this false narrative comes from misinformation and vilification in the Tory press and on social media by anti-trans campaigners. The Labour Party does itself no favours by pandering to this.

The paragraph that caused most pain to the trans community during the election was on page 66 of the manifesto:

Labour would… “Ensure that the single-sex-based exemptions contained in the Equality Act 2010 are understood and fully enforced in service provision.”
Until we intervened this was spun as an acceptance by Labour that transwomen would be excluded from women’s spaces.

I am told that this wording was different from what was originally in the Manifesto draft before the Clause V meeting, and the final text in the manifesto was as much of a surprise to the shadow equalities and youth ministers as it was to LGBT+ Labour’s team.

The paragraph caused alarm and offence to the trans community. During the campaign Dawn Butler and LGBT+ Labour tried to say that what the section was clumsily worded and what it meant was that because transwomen are women, transwomen would not be excluded from single-sex spaces. However, this did not stand up to scrutiny of interviewers who pointed out different interpretations by frontbenchers, and that if this was pro-trans it would have been included in the LGBT+ section of the manifesto, not the women’s section.

Labour could have rescued all of this with the release of a separate LGBT+ manifesto to coincide with Trans Day of Remembrance (20th Nov) or World Aids Day (1st Dec). There were separate manifestos for other groups and minorities but not LGBT+. Great policies developed by LGBT+ Labour were assigned to the scrap heap instead.

We need a frank investigation as to how the trans exclusionary section was incorporated into the main manifesto and no separate LGBT+ manifesto published. This is what I am told by several sources happened in the production of the manifesto:

In the run up to the election there were rumours that Boris was going to weaponize trans-rights to win voters in northern working-class constituencies. Socially conservative voices close to Jeremy Corbyn seized on this to argue there should be no separate LGBT+ manifesto and Labour’s commitments to self-declaration for gender recognition dropped.

During the Party’s consultation on the manifesto two Unions (Unite and GMB) initially argued to dilute or remove commitments to self-declaration in GRA reform. They dropped their objection after pressure to agree the TUC’s line. LGBT+ Labour’s proposals to protect QIA+ people in law and to introduce equality tribunals to decide discrimination in education and services, were seen as too radical for this manifesto. Other LGBT+ policies on education, health & social care, housing, law & order, and asylum would mainly be covered by general commitments in the manifesto.


Labour’s draft manifesto was put before the Clause V meeting. The draft was supportive of self declaration in GRA reform and did not qualify trans rights. Chair of Equalities on the NEC, Ann Henderson (JC9 CLP division), raised several objections and concerns about the impact on women of trans rights. While there was murmurs of support from a few, Dawn Butler & Cat Smith rejected that there was any conflict between equalities.

No vote was taken at Clause V to change the text on trans rights but somehow changes made it into the final manifesto! Cockup or conspiracy? In my opinion we need an investigation to get to the bottom of this. Only a few people can change the draft manifesto and we need to know who changed it and why? It could be sinister, or it could be ignorance? If it were ignorance, it could have been avoided by running the wording by LGBT+ Labour or someone with experience of the trans community.

Did this sacrifice of LGBT+ rights win its target voters? No, the number of voters who place being anti-trans as more important to how they vote than the NHS is an extremely small fraction of a percent. However, having a negative message about trans rights drowned out Labour’s positive manifesto commitments to women such as: ending the gender pay gap, flexible working, ending the stigma and ensuring that no woman is put at a disadvantage from menstruation to menopause, etc. Following a frontbencher’s interview, the headlines & trendings were not about the cuts to domestic refuges under the Tories and Labour’s commitment to fund them & give paid leave for survivors, the headlines were anti-trans claims about transgender women being a threat to others.

Labour is making a mistake if it takes LGBT+ voters for granted; like it took its northern Red-Wall. We cannot have this happen again or we will find Labour’s Pink-Wall of voter which crumble at the next election.

e: 365 is a number

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baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Gonzo McFee posted:

After we leave the EU it's going to be hilarious watching everything go to poo poo and the BBC saying nothing about it because the government refuses to talk about it or send anyone to talk about it.

if they make the government look bad that's unbalanced

Pesmerga
Aug 1, 2005

So nice to eat you

Apraxin posted:

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1208032905781534721
‘The programme motion has been passed by 353 votes to 243.

The deputy speaker wishes members a very peaceful Christmas and they file out.

There is now an adjournment debate on the “progress of Southend towards city status” and then parliament breaks up til 7 January.’

Nice to see they found time for the truly important issue of the day :unsmith:

Somewhere, Lisa Nandy is screaming out of her seven mouths.

Lady Demelza
Dec 29, 2009



Lipstick Apathy
The WAB might have passed parliament, but doesn't the EU have to unanimously vote on the withdrawal too? There are still problems with the Irish border and rights of EU citizens in the UK, so what are the chances that they vote against it? And what happens if they do?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Their LGBT+ section was one of the weakest parts of the manifesto. I remember when we did the manifesto podcast ep it was one of the only bits we were really down on. Glad we got some insight on what happened there.

Skull Servant
Oct 25, 2009

Lady Demelza posted:

The WAB might have passed parliament, but doesn't the EU have to unanimously vote on the withdrawal too? There are still problems with the Irish border and rights of EU citizens in the UK, so what are the chances that they vote against it? And what happens if they do?

I think it only has to if there are significant changes made to it on the UK side, of which I don't think there are any?

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Lady Demelza posted:

The WAB might have passed parliament, but doesn't the EU have to unanimously vote on the withdrawal too? There are still problems with the Irish border and rights of EU citizens in the UK, so what are the chances that they vote against it? And what happens if they do?

I'm not sure if they have to vote? The agreement was basically drafted on behalf of and then backed by the EU leaders, it's basically a declaration of how we (us and the EU) intend to handle the issues caused by withdrawal

There's still a year of the transition period left, which gives us no time to do the next negotiating stage - agreeing the future relationship including trade deals, customs arrangements etc. That's probably when we'll see the EU start to lean on us to get what they want, it's even possible we'll end up with a soft brexit where EU citizens' rights are guaranteed, we're locked into alignment with them, they have the same say over ARE FISHERIES etc because we need them more than they need us. Also probably why the government is hoping to hide under some coats for as long as possible

Apraxin
Feb 22, 2006

General-Admiral
https://mobile.twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1208036791623831552
*laughs hollowly*

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Lady Demelza posted:

The WAB might have passed parliament, but doesn't the EU have to unanimously vote on the withdrawal too? There are still problems with the Irish border and rights of EU citizens in the UK, so what are the chances that they vote against it? And what happens if they do?

No, according to an article from the German newspaper from today, that part is done, Britain will just leave.

What the EU has to do next:

March 2020: Memberstates give the EU a Mandate for negotiating the future relationship

November 2020: All negotiations must be concluded, so the EU can vote and implement the new treaties in time

2021, January: If the above didn't happen fast enough, chaos reigns (also tariffs)

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
some good news from elsewhere

https://twitter.com/jhmommers/status/1208079662318051328?s=20

sinky
Feb 22, 2011



Slippery Tilde
Also

quote:

Former France Télécom bosses given jail terms over workplace bullying
Former executives at France Télécom have been given prison sentences and fines after being found guilty of “institutional harassment” and creating a culture of routine workplace bullying that sparked a number of suicides at the company.

The landmark ruling is likely to send shockwaves through the French business world. It is the first time managers have been held criminally responsible for implementing a general strategy of bullying even if they had not dealt directly with the staff involved.

Imagine bosses here being held responsible for anything ever :eyepop:


Can imagine this bit though :smith:

quote:

Between 2008 and 2009, 35 employees killed themselves. The company had been privatised and was undertaking a restructuring plan during which bosses set out to cut more than a fifth of the workforce – more than 22,000 jobs.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010
https://twitter.com/CorbynistaTeen/status/1207948576787185664?s=19

loving scary times.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider


Very distressed to see Ann Henderson named here, she’s always been presented as one of the good left wing choices for NEC.

Pound_Coin
Feb 5, 2004
£


There's some extremely dumb fuckery going on on wikipedia atm;

Keir Starmer's wiki page has had a sub-section about his "private wealth" added 2 days ago stating he was a millionaire because he owns a house in London, this was removed as its loving dumb to say with london house prices as they are, the torygraph is running a story that it has been deleted, but not that it was just added.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Keir_Starmer#Private_wealth

https://twitter.com/niko_tinius/status/1207627459845402625

Oh and the Sun's political editor is trying to remove the fact that he publishes literal nazi propaganda from his own bio, under his own name;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Newton_Dunn#Far-Right_Conspiracy_Incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tom_Newton_Dunn&action=history

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

Very distressed to see Ann Henderson named here, she’s always been presented as one of the good left wing choices for NEC.

Heather Peto is a full Progress type, it's worth considering when she's talking specifically about left wingers

The LGBT bit of the manifesto was poo poo though so

The DPRK
Nov 18, 2006

Lipstick Apathy

Jose posted:

Can I interest anyone in some of the most doomsday economics ever published essentially unrelated to climate change?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/20000-feet-under-the-sea/603040/

Wow, what an article. Thanks for sharing Jose.

Lady Demelza
Dec 29, 2009



Lipstick Apathy
Oh okay, so passing the WAB means that on the surface nothing changes for the next year, Brexiteers get to gloat that the world hasn't ended, whilst businesses and individuals quietly enact whatever plans they have for when Brexit properly kicks in in January 2021?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I think you'll find that we Got Brexit Done. Any evidence to the contrary is a communist plot, friend computer is never wrong.

Qwertycoatl
Dec 31, 2008


Ah, the Conservative and Unionist Nothern Tory Seats group photo

Braggart
Nov 10, 2011

always thank the rock hider
The poo poo from the caahs in the norf and the caahs in the saaf comes together and makes Tories!


It will really help me if you laugh at this joke and display it in your window.

Braggart fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 20, 2019

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Lady Demelza posted:

Oh okay, so passing the WAB means that on the surface nothing changes for the next year, Brexiteers get to gloat that the world hasn't ended, whilst businesses and individuals quietly enact whatever plans they have for when Brexit properly kicks in in January 2021?

Essentially, yes. How hard the kick lands in 2021 depends on how much negotiations get done, however. If Boris fucks this up (Narrator: He will gently caress this up), Brexit will kick in so hard Albion will be torn in half

Considering all those thorny questions that are still unsolved, like what has to be done with Northern Ireland, Boris has his work cut out for him. He has some time to prepare for negotiations in January-March and then the EU is ready to work and the race is on. And in November everything has to be already ready and finished for the EU-members / EU-parliament to vote on and turn the new treaty into a real boy.

My personal prediction is that the new treaty will stay a dead piece of wood and 2021 will be the Year of Horror for Britain.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Lady Demelza posted:

Oh okay, so passing the WAB means that on the surface nothing changes for the next year, Brexiteers get to gloat that the world hasn't ended, whilst businesses and individuals quietly enact whatever plans they have for when Brexit properly kicks in in January 2021?

It's not that nothing changes, just that the changes don't have to be in place until the end of that period. Like with one year to get things sorted out a responsible government would be getting on it immediately, but this lot spent 3 years sending people like David Davis to sit there with empty binders and play with his watch menacingly like it was full of dangerous spy gadgets

you had ministers saying 1 year was completely inadequate, that we were looking at extending by 2 or 3 years just to have time to do everything we needed to do. And you'd think that we'd want as much time as we needed, right? Not being rushed into things, not ending up desperate because we hit a deadline we're unprepared for. But Johnson's making it illegal for the government to ask for another extension, the cliff edge is fixed and the brakes are cut

So either he's planning for a no deal crashout, or he's planning on getting bounced into an agreement by the EU that he can blame on them, or he genuinely thinks he can play chicken and win. Who the heck knows which at this point, and they're going dark so nobody knows until it's too late. Our fine journalists will definitely investigate and keep everyone informed though :thumbsup:

Braggart
Nov 10, 2011

always thank the rock hider
https://twitter.com/g_gosden/status/1208016103433277440?s=19





Old Chlory.

Lord_Hambrose
Nov 21, 2008

*a foul hooting fills the air*



The EU should just go ahead and slit the UKs throat and hurl the body in a dumpster. Just get it over with. I am not confident anything will be done in the next year.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

As we know, brits love americans more than anything.

Pesmerga
Aug 1, 2005

So nice to eat you
The chance of anything being effectively negotiated by Jan 2021 is frankly laughable. Getting it done in time to be ratified by the EU institutions and national parliaments as necessary by January 2021 is flat out impossible.

sinky
Feb 22, 2011



Slippery Tilde

Braggart posted:




Old Chlory.

:yum:
https://twitter.com/brianfharrison/status/1207084347775488006

crispix
Mar 28, 2015

Grand-Maman m'a raconté
(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)

Hello, dear
We're doing a crash out of the EU. It's what the country loving voted for.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Libluini posted:

Considering all those thorny questions that are still unsolved, like what has to be done with Northern Ireland, Boris has his work cut out for him. He has some time to prepare for negotiations in January-March and then the EU is ready to work and the race is on. And in November everything has to be already ready and finished for the EU-members / EU-parliament to vote on and turn the new treaty into a real boy.

honestly as far as I can tell "what has to be done with Northern Ireland" is already settled, because it's laid out in the WA that the EU negotiated. Johnson just pretended that stuff wasn't in there, and the media said "Tories say this, Labour says something else, we report you decide" instead of, like, telling people what the agreement actually sets out

basically there's a border in the Irish Sea (one of May's red lines - she wanted any arrangement to apply to the UK as a whole, so Johnson got a deal when everyone said he couldn't by... conceding on something the EU wanted) which puts various burdens on NI businesses and anyone in GB that trades with them. It also binds NI to follow any relevant future laws the EU enacts, and gives the EU oversight and authority over the UK on these matters

NI's alignment with the EU means that if the rest of the UK diverges too much, NI will be forced to juggle two different sets of conflicting rules and regulations. If the UK signs a super great very cool trade deal with the US, which is incompatible with customs and market rules in the EU, NI won't be able to balance those two requirements - the burden will be too heavy

But Johnson has basically made the NI government responsible for what happens by punting it as a devolved issue - if NI has to break away from EU alignment resulting in a hard border with Ireland, well that's just the choice of the Northern Irish people now isn't it? Nothing to do with us. And if things go the other way, and NI becomes a de facto EU member instead (maybe officially leaving the UK or maybe just becoming an entirely separated territory) then it's their fault, we certainly didn't cause the breakup of the union

it all looks pretty much laid out, the mystery box just contains all the trade deals that have to magically appear in one year. love to cause the kind of economic disruption you'd dream of inflicting on an enemy in a war

Braggart
Nov 10, 2011

always thank the rock hider

Oh my god and who wants a mouthful of Cameron? :barf:

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

after hearing about US pork farms it's hard to imagine they could get any worse... hey whose beer is this in my hand??

The DPRK
Nov 18, 2006

Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1207960704998952960

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
If it weren't in such a bad taste, I would make jokes about wondering if Brexit is just karmic payback for the British blockade of Germany in WWI :v:

Ash Crimson
Apr 4, 2010
If only corbine had not failed

if only the english hadn't collectively gone gammon full degeneration and degenerates

Ash Crimson fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 20, 2019

Pesmerga
Aug 1, 2005

So nice to eat you
There’s not a single person running for leader so far that I’m remotely inspired by.

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Libluini posted:

November 2020: All negotiations must be concluded, so the EU can vote and implement the new treaties in time

I thought this would be in like June at latest, since everything needs to be ratified by all the parliaments and whatnot

Firos
Apr 30, 2007

Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism



Pesmerga posted:

There’s not a single person running for leader so far that I’m remotely inspired by.

Do keep us updated.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013


That's a hell of a feed that account has.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

jaete posted:

I thought this would be in like June at latest, since everything needs to be ratified by all the parliaments and whatnot

Apparently the Süddeutsche is convinced November is still OK. It's basically the last possible date, however. And Halloween would probably be too late already

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happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

Lord_Hambrose posted:

The EU should just go ahead and slit the UKs throat and hurl the body in a dumpster. Just get it over with. I am not confident anything will be done in the next year.

Why, the enjoyment will be over too soon then.
Better to watch them squirm and pretend everything is fine ruling over a pile of sinking poo poo for a decade or two.
Also there's also going to be the joy of deporting UKers back to the UK.
Detention centers full of people going 'Don't you know who I am!"

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