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I want to say there’s a good gradenko blog post about that but I can’t pull it up right now. E: Here it is: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/designing-boss-monsters/ Kaysette fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 00:41
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lightrook posted:My campaign has reached the point where I'm planning for my level 7 party to fight a young metallic dragon. I'm aware of the various pitfalls of single entity boss encounters, so I'm thinking about allowing it legendary actions and/or accompanying it with some other flying units as support. What's the recommended guideline for beefing up a monster with legendary actions and building an encounter around it? Wouldn't a young dragon be kinda weak for a level 7 party? They are only CR8 which is trash mob difficulty at that level. Maybe give them a full grown adult, which comes with legendary actions. That would be a proper boss.
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Dec 21, 2019 00:47
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Marathanes posted:I can't speak for anyone else, but for single boss encounters, I simply don't have a boss HP total. MMO boss mechanics are definitely a good way to go, if you're able to figure out how to let your players "not stand in the fire" using Legendary Actions while still obeying initiative order. Abilities that force a player to take an action to avoid (but don't otherwise incapacitate them) are also a good way of toning down the 4-on-1 action economy of a boss encounter.
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Dec 21, 2019 01:16
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Honestly the big worry with bosses is that the PCs will disable it and then clown it.
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Dec 21, 2019 02:43
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So, going into a Dungeon of the Mad Mage game in a few weeks and I'm debating what to make. A Gloom Stalker would be useful and with the free bonus feat the DM is letting everyone take I can try some build that needs a feat without just going variant human. On the other hand, I could do a variant human ancestral guardian barbarian and have 18 AC at level 5, but damage would be lacking. I'd be a monster at keeping stuff where I want I guess. Also might go for a gimmicky melee sorcerer using shadow blade and green flame blade, with high dex and the dragon bloodline giving me better AC. Rest of the party is still up in the air. Anyone got ideas for gimmicky builds I could make since everyone playing gets an extra feat?
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Dec 21, 2019 03:47
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Make sure the environment is VERY against the players. The dragon chose to lair here for a reason, and it should have every advantage you can think of. - waterfall that creates ankle deep water on the floor of the lair, which the dragon can freeze to immobilize players and create difficult terrain that causes slipping into prone - large underground waterways that feed out into a lake for escapes and ambushes - huge banks of snowfall which let the dragon dive into concealment and pop out elsewhere, and if players wade into the snow, the can be breath frozen into blocks of ice That kind of thing
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Dec 21, 2019 03:48
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xanthan posted:
I kinda want to try this at some point but it would need to be a game that started at higher levels: Monk Sorceror, take Shadow Blade as your second level spell, make Shadow Blade your kensai weapon, quicken a booming blade and hit with it, etc.
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Dec 21, 2019 04:01
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xanthan posted:So, going into a Dungeon of the Mad Mage game in a few weeks and I'm debating what to make. A Gloom Stalker would be useful and with the free bonus feat the DM is letting everyone take I can try some build that needs a feat without just going variant human. On the other hand, I could do a variant human ancestral guardian barbarian and have 18 AC at level 5, but damage would be lacking. I'd be a monster at keeping stuff where I want I guess. Try an elf with a double bladed scimitar, and the feat that makes it a finesse weapon and gives you +1 AC while you're holding it.
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Dec 21, 2019 07:07
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Infinite Karma posted:MMO boss mechanics are definitely a good way to go, if you're able to figure out how to let your players "not stand in the fire" using Legendary Actions while still obeying initiative order. Abilities that force a player to take an action to avoid (but don't otherwise incapacitate them) are also a good way of toning down the 4-on-1 action economy of a boss encounter. My general solution to this is to have environmental hazards that do damage do so at the end of a player's turn so a player has a choice. Perhaps also when they first appear, if it's supposed to be nasty or is the result of an attack (say a fire attack that leaves an area of burning pitch on the ground), but aside from when they first appear it should generally be a player choice whether or not they want to deal with environmental damage to achieve some goal or if they want to avoid it.
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Dec 21, 2019 16:37
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Honestly, look at Monster Hunter monsters, especially the big setpiece guys like Gogmazios or Dalamadur, but even Behemoth and Lunastra in MHWorld have very similar ideas. There's definitely a lot of neat ideas that can be pulled from the series and gussied up enough to disguise it from the players, and you could even do cool poo poo like the whole "Fight a big nasty dude while on the back of this massive other monster" like with Zorah Magdaros and Nergigante.
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Dec 21, 2019 20:07
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I have something for this topic I just did recently, actually. I kinda sorta absolutely completely ripped off a blind dragon boss from World of Warcraft. Mine was different in that it was partially cybernetic and blind through horrible scarification, it was a red dragon who had stuff attached to replace its normal fire breath with a lava breath, that did so much damage that even saving for half would kill anyone in the party. There were gongs in the room, and it was a dead end, so they tried the gongs first, that's when the dragon showed up and melted the gong. I had a meter of sorts built into the dragon's body so they knew when the breath would be going off, and made it clear the dragon was finding them based on sound, so they would ring the gongs when the breath was going to go off. The actual stats of the dragon made it way out of their league, but since one of the big dangers of a dragon is the breath weapon, it really cut it down to something manageable for them, while making them use action economy in a way that lengthened the fight without dragging it out too long (at least, it seemed that way to me)
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Dec 22, 2019 01:19
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I've been playing a lot of Into The Breach lately and it has inspired some boss battle ideas. The big bad is an artificer genius who protects the hallway to his secret chamber with magically infused automatons, equipped with crossbows, axes and flamethrowers. They go first in the initiative order and move to line up their attack, but their mechanisms take so long to wind up they don't actually attack until the start of the next turn. The automatons are magically resistant and near impervious to physical attack, but the big bad infused their weapons with powerful magical piercing qualities that can in theory pierce their own armour. Thus the easiest way to beat them is to manipulate the positions of the automatons after they have lined up their shots/attacks so they shoot each other at the start of the next turn.
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Dec 22, 2019 01:25
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Re: using videogames for encounter inspiration, I've had luck a couple of times with a "PVP-style" encounter (one where the party is fighting a rival group of human/oid opponents with distinct abilities) by basing them on characters from League of Legends. All MOBA characters have this basic, 2-5 ability "playbook" and a defined playstyle that makes them exactly the right complexity to be a single boss in a multiple enemy climactic encounter. Put 3-5 together with appropriate HP and hit bonuses, and you've got a stew goin.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:40
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i'm in an skt game and recently started playing a new character fairly late into the campaign (level 8). bladesinger wizard. to be at parity with the other characters, i got to start with a magic item. i chose broom of flying, although we nerfed it to 30ft of movespeed instead of 60ft. my DM is frustrated by my character combat-wise, basically because they are almost impossible to hit with an effective 26 AC and good at everything because they're a wizard. i've suggested throwing in more ranged opponents or spellcasters, or pointing out that the character is incredibly squishy if their defenses are pierced, but to no real avail. what should i do to not piss off my dm but not be punished for my character being optimized.
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Dec 23, 2019 03:15
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Play a Ranger.
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Dec 23, 2019 03:58
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Your DM is going to plan an encounter explicitly designed to murder you.
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Dec 23, 2019 04:16
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Farg posted:i'm in an skt game and recently started playing a new character fairly late into the campaign (level 8). bladesinger wizard. to be at parity with the other characters, i got to start with a magic item. i chose broom of flying, although we nerfed it to 30ft of movespeed instead of 60ft. my DM is frustrated by my character combat-wise, basically because they are almost impossible to hit with an effective 26 AC and good at everything because they're a wizard. i've suggested throwing in more ranged opponents or spellcasters, or pointing out that the character is incredibly squishy if their defenses are pierced, but to no real avail. what should i do to not piss off my dm but not be punished for my character being optimized. Remind your DM that you still have saving throws, and likely more than one that you aren't proficient in, which is probably tied to a dump stat.
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Dec 23, 2019 04:20
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Yeah, point out to the DM that you have a bunch of other defenses that are easier to penetrate than your AC. Or don't worry about it, and just prepare to groan when he pulls some DM-fiat punishment out. If the other players are playing unoptimized characters, tho, you could take Conspiratorist's almost-definitely facetious advice seriously and consider playing something other than a Wizard with a ludicrous AC and a Broom of Flying.
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Dec 23, 2019 04:54
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Yup just tell them to say “make a wisdom save” at you every round.
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Dec 23, 2019 04:57
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How did you get 26AC with only one magic items anyway? That implies 21AC before Shield which seems tricky to reach even for martials.
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Dec 23, 2019 04:59
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mage armor+bladesong+high dex from rolled stats also advantage on wis saves from forest gnome lol
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Dec 23, 2019 05:17
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You aren't losing that AC without rewriting the character or action from the GM side so maybe just modify your wizard playstyle so that you don't choose to be good at everything, especially in terms of going for supporting the party instead of invalidating encounters? See if you can use your wizard's abilities to make the rest of the party look awesome I guess. Also like, go hit them with your sword sometimes maybe, take a lot of opportunity attacks, etc. Frankly though 26 AC is going to remain untouchable no matter how much the GM does, triply so on an book adventure where all the encounters are pre-written.
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Dec 23, 2019 05:31
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i mean yeah i'm already using my big high level spells on greater invising my friends or polymorphing near-dead allies into mammoths and poo poo so i dunno what else to do. sometimes i upcast shadowbalde and go nuts in melee so i could tone that back
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Dec 23, 2019 06:29
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I thought bladesinger was an elf-only thing?
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Dec 23, 2019 06:57
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It is but a lot of people just ignore that because it's sword coast specific lore that can be excised if you're not playing forgotten realms and also because it's dumb.
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Dec 23, 2019 07:05
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Paladins don't have to be Lawful or Good any more, as a for instance, so who cares about subclass racial restrictions? In a world where an 8 STR Monk can potentially whip around hand-and-a-half axes, hammers, and swords more effectively than a baton? Its a dumb hold-over requirement that "trained by elves" should remove and thus should no longer exist. "In the Forgotten Realms, this is an Elven tradition, so work with your DM to reskin it if necessary" done.
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Dec 23, 2019 07:20
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cowboy
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Race restrictions actually have a design function, unlike alignment ones, because races have meaningful mechanical consequence - for example, you could restrict a Wizard subclass to races with no INT bonus - but it's really obvious that it's completely a theme/lore thing with Bladesinger and they probably didn't think about the mechanical impact of a restriction at all.
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Dec 23, 2019 07:43
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I agree with your point, but I am drawing a blank on subclasses with racial restrictions other than Bladesinger.
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Dec 23, 2019 07:49
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They do flat out say it's only a thing in the Forgotten Realms and even then can be altered. Not like the book is slapping you in the face for wanting to be a goblin Bladesinger. As for other racial restrictions, the only other one is the Barbarian Battlerager which is dwarf-only because... somehow only dwarves can wear spiky armor and hug enemies.
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Dec 23, 2019 07:56
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Oh, that'd also be a Forgotten Realms thing. Ask me anything about R. A. Salvatore's FR novels 1988-2009 and notable axe idiot Thibbledorf Pwent.
stringless fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 07:59
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I have to say, the elves only bit might be there because all that defense plus advantage on wis, int and cha magic saving throws is kinda bullshit. Add flight to the mix so you can dip in and out of enemy range and its not really even fun anymore. My only suggestion for your DM would be to really let you have it with dex or con saving throw spells, especially ones that do half damage on a save. Kung Food fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 08:04
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Silence is a second level spell and Bladesingers get two up-to-one-minute uses of bladesong per short rest. /e Silence doesn't end it RAW but it's a limited resource and they never get more uses per short rest outside of homebrewed magic items, so eh who cares unless it's one combat per day and even then, oh no Do as above and then prepare Counterspell lol stringless fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 08:07
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Kung Food posted:I have to say, the elves only bit might be there because all that defense plus advantage on wis, int and cha magic saving throws is kinda bullshit. Add flight to the mix so you can dip in and out of enemy range and its not really even fun anymore. Arms of Hadar and Earthen Grasp are both strength saves for half damage, restrained as well as full damage on failure. Once you're restrained you're at disadvantage on dex saves, move speed 0, and attacks against you are at advantage. Level 1 and 2 spells, respectively.
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Dec 23, 2019 09:49
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Farg posted:i'm in an skt game and recently started playing a new character fairly late into the campaign (level 8). bladesinger wizard. to be at parity with the other characters, i got to start with a magic item. i chose broom of flying, although we nerfed it to 30ft of movespeed instead of 60ft. my DM is frustrated by my character combat-wise, basically because they are almost impossible to hit with an effective 26 AC and good at everything because they're a wizard. i've suggested throwing in more ranged opponents or spellcasters, or pointing out that the character is incredibly squishy if their defenses are pierced, but to no real avail. what should i do to not piss off my dm but not be punished for my character being optimized. Play in a different campaign or play a less optimised build defensively. However what you really should do is talk to your dm 1 on 1 and and work out a solution that way.
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Dec 23, 2019 13:21
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What are the good Barbarian builds now? We're going to start the next book after Hoard of the Dragon Queen (Rise of Tiamat?) and we can rebuild our characters if we wish. Currently I'm a Gnoll* Totem Barb with Wolf Aspect. We have a couple other melee, including a sword and board Fighter, so Wolf was very helpful. We also do ASI+Feat. Starting at level 8, I'll probably take Great Weapon Master still; not sure what the next best feat would be. *  From an unofficial supplement that makes playable species of all the MM creatures. I don't know if Gnolls have an official release but I wouldn't mind switching if it's better. This version is merely average but I really wanted a Gnoll. I also ignore the "they're all evil!" garbage.
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Dec 23, 2019 14:17
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WotC said gnolls will never ever get an official release in 5e because “they’re all evil*.” *Because we retconned them to all be evil this edition. Maybe they decided there should be at least one race it’s completely ok to slaughter thoughtlessly?
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Dec 23, 2019 14:43
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??? What retcon? I always remember gnolls being big, scary, demon worshipping hyena folks that are big into murder.
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Dec 23, 2019 14:49
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Farg posted:mage armor+bladesong+high dex from rolled stats I must be missing something here. Assuming you have +5 in Dex and Int due to rolling for stats, Mage armour is 13 + Dex = 18 + plus blade song is only 23. *Edit, unless your base AC is a bit lower and you're including Shield into the equation.. but at least that is chewing resources. Nutsngum fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 15:04
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Glagha posted:It is but a lot of people just ignore that because it's sword coast specific lore that can be excised if you're not playing forgotten realms and also because it's dumb. we're in forgotten realms but we backstory'd it to make sense and also the character is a gnome but has the form of a human but that doesn't affect racial feats RAW anyways the conclusion we came to was to get rid of the Max hp rule that was put in as a low level crutch for everybody
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Dec 23, 2019 15:10
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Nutsngum posted:I must be missing something here. Assuming you have +5 in Dex and Int due to rolling for stats, Mage armour is 13 + Dex = 18 + plus blade song is only 23. +3 to dex but counting shield
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Dec 23, 2019 15:15
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