Star Citizen: $48,000 is only $334/month for 12 years

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: $48,000 is only $334/month for 12 years

monkeytek: Jun 8, 2010; It wasn't an ELE that wiped out the backer funds. It was Tristan Timothy Taylor.

stinch posted:

everybody knows the score with those schemes. temporarily attracting jobs and outside money while some rich arseholes pay less tax is about as good as it gets. the produced game is supposed to be British which sc and sq42 are obviously not which might be an issue if they ever release but i doubt it actually will be..

from the uk governments perspective the more money cr scams from outside the uk and spunks up the wall in the uk the better.

It just seems that it is very similar to Curt Schilling (38 studios) and his "video game" that managed to steal millions in gov't. loans promising the same crap. The state eventually came to their senses and came down on them for suspected fraud.

Taxxe:
https://twitter.com/dog_rates/status/1207465592896335872?s=20

Looks like my doofus

monkeytek fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 21, 2019

# ? Dec 21, 2019 21:00

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 16:59

colonelwest: Jun 30, 2018

Sarsapariller posted:

I think this has been our mistake for a while now. At one point I thought 40 million per year was big money for an early access game and probably unsustainable, but it's pretty apparent by now that there are lots of paunchy white dudes out there with zero free time and no actual interest in games, but who have piles of disposable income, and this project is the feel-good "Hobby" purchase that they make to avoid thinking about not really being all that connected to the dreams of their childhood.

I don't know that there's a true end to that cycle anymore. Chris very deliberately isn't offering those guys a video game. He goes out of his way instead to offer them validation- that they're wealthy donors patronizing a guy out there who gets them, who speaks for them, who demands of his studios quality and luxury and fidelity and a bunch of poo poo that they won't credit the rest of the games industry with in order to justify why no other game has managed to hold their interest in the last decade. He flatters them with quote-unquote luxury dinners and butters them up with commercials that never break the fiction of the universe- not even selling the game anymore, just the idea of things that it might contain. By never really releasing he lets them avoid thinking about the fact that maybe multiplayer games are kind of toxic and awful if you don't have a social group, and none of them have friends in their middle age who share these interests, and likely they wouldn't actually enjoy it all that much if it was actually playable.

He gives them validation, they tithe a couple thousand bucks per year, and the product- a virtual sandbox that is never really complete enough to be called a "Game" but that definitely exists- lets them feel like it's not all just a big money pit. We joke about a cult but it really does have more in common with religion than with game development. For a lot of these guys, I think it occupies the same mental space and energy.

That seems to be the attitude of a majority of the whales. You could see it in the trip reports that came out of the last big whale dinner. They seemed pretty laid back and just enjoyed the process of perpetual development and the feeling of being important benefactors.

I think though there is a deeper lunatic core of cultists who really believe that Star Citizen will be an end-all-be-all universe sim in which they will be important and powerful figures in, and live out all of their sci-fi fantasies without the limitations of current games. I always go back to Starloop�s famous meltdown in which they very sadly admitted that Star Citizen had become all they had or could look forward to in life.

Then there is also a large group of past backers who show up on Reddit once in a while to see if any real progress is being made or if CIG has stopped being a bunch of sleazy morons. When the answer is invariably �no� to both questions, they trash the project pretty hard to the point that the regular resident cultists on the sub can�t contain it. You can see this dynamic in the latest SQ42 roadmap update.

# ? Dec 21, 2019 21:24

Kharan: Jun 28, 2005; Ned is dead

O hi. This makes two games I've released since I started following this thread. First was Cave Digger, this time it's ArtPulse for PSVR, a bit more casual artistic/audiovisual game.

Just checking in. Think I can make a few more before this poo poo show finally collapses.

# ? Dec 21, 2019 21:31

Strangler 42: Jan 8, 2007; SHAVE IT ALL OFF
ALL OF IT

All games will be released before Star Citizen is finished.

# ? Dec 21, 2019 21:52

Sarsapariller: Aug 14, 2015; Occasional vampire queen

colonelwest posted:

I think though there is a deeper lunatic core of cultists who really believe that Star Citizen will be an end-all-be-all universe sim in which they will be important and powerful figures in, and live out all of their sci-fi fantasies without the limitations of current games. I always go back to Starloop�s famous meltdown in which they very sadly admitted that Star Citizen had become all they had or could look forward to in life.

See I guess my point is that there's no functional difference between these guys and the less invested but still kind of fanatical. It's all about middle-aged male isolation in the US, and the coping mechanisms that men are developing. Star Citizen is the filler that its fanbase has chosen to shovel into the giant hole in their lives that once would have been filled by social relationships. Some just need to shovel more than others.

# ? Dec 21, 2019 22:02

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

Sarsapariller posted:

I think this has been our mistake for a while now. At one point I thought 40 million per year was big money for an early access game and probably unsustainable, but it's pretty apparent by now that there are lots of paunchy white dudes out there with zero free time and no actual interest in games, but who have piles of disposable income, and this project is the feel-good "Hobby" purchase that they make to avoid thinking about not really being all that connected to the dreams of their childhood.

I don't know that there's a true end to that cycle anymore. Chris very deliberately isn't offering those guys a video game. He goes out of his way instead to offer them validation- that they're wealthy donors patronizing a guy out there who gets them, who speaks for them, who demands of his studios quality and luxury and fidelity and a bunch of poo poo that they won't credit the rest of the games industry with in order to justify why no other game has managed to hold their interest in the last decade. He flatters them with quote-unquote luxury dinners and butters them up with commercials that never break the fiction of the universe- not even selling the game anymore, just the idea of things that it might contain. By never really releasing he lets them avoid thinking about the fact that maybe multiplayer games are kind of toxic and awful if you don't have a social group, and none of them have friends in their middle age who share these interests, and likely they wouldn't actually enjoy it all that much if it was actually playable.

He gives them validation, they tithe a couple thousand bucks per year, and the product- a virtual sandbox that is never really complete enough to be called a "Game" but that definitely exists- lets them feel like it's not all just a big money pit. We joke about a cult but it really does have more in common with religion than with game development. For a lot of these guys, I think it occupies the same mental space and energy.

Yeah this seems like a reasonable assessment, but I do think there is an upper bound on the amount they're going to get in pledges. 2019 represents a pretty significant jump in pledge dollars over the past couple years, but it remains to be seen
whether it is the new normal or not. Based on 2014-2019 they seem likely to continue to make between 34 and 40 million dollars a year in pledges, assuming there isn't some massive drop (or spike) in backer confidence or something. 2019's current total of 43.7 million is almost two standard deviations from the norm for these years - still possible, but less probable. I'm dubious of any income forecasts pulled from their financials because continued growth relies on either continued increases in pledge money (possible, but again it's too early to tell if 2019 is the new norm) or continued growth of the "other" category of income, which seems really unlikely, because the well of tax breaks and corporate sponsorships seems like it probably has a bottom.

Similarly, forecasts for their expenses paint a dire picture, but are unreliable (in my opinion) because expenses are the financial category CIG easily has the most control over. CIG can go full slash-and-burn on their expenses if they find themselves in dire straits, but with salary making up the bulk of those expenses it's likely they would only be shooting themselves in the foot if they did so. Comparing income forecasts to expense forecasts suggests they will need to see additional outside investment by 2022, and that might be realistic considering the timeframe (the longer the projections go the more silly everything gets), but like I said, I wouldn't read too much into it because the forecasts rely on assumptions I don't really think are sound.

E: but I could be wrong about 100% of this. I'm not a business math guy, just some loser who only got a stats minor so I could touch sharks and say it was my job.

Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 21, 2019

# ? Dec 21, 2019 22:10

Foo Diddley: Oct 29, 2011; cat

I just wish I could make millions of dollars fleecing stupid assholes. You gotta hand it to Chris for that at least

# ? Dec 21, 2019 22:14

Rugganovich: Apr 29, 2017

I'm intrigued by 2 things. The development team grew from 397 - 408 ('17-'18), whilst marketing went from 46-77.

Yet tangible evidence of the marketing has decreased i.e. less videos etc.

LOL.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 00:10

Rugganovich: Apr 29, 2017

For more LOL's

https://www.cryengine.com/news/view/celebrate-the-holidays-with-seasonal-assets

# ? Dec 22, 2019 00:16

vyst: Aug 25, 2009

monkeytek posted:

It just seems that it is very similar to Curt Schilling (38 studios) and his "video game" that managed to steal millions in gov't. loans promising the same crap. The state eventually came to their senses and came down on them for suspected fraud.

Taxxe:
https://twitter.com/dog_rates/status/1207465592896335872?s=20

Looks like my doofus

We rate dogs is probably one of the few things good about humanity right now

# ? Dec 22, 2019 02:13

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

Someone posted something interesting on Reddit a couple days ago and I saved it and have been looking for an appropriate thread to post it in. I think the SC thread is good for it.

Originally in response to this post

quote:

I can�t believe that people actually believe in flat Earth stuff ... it�s like ... they think it�s funny to be dumb or something..

I present, in all its glory:

quote:

No, it stems from an emotional need. People turn to these kinds of fringe conspiracy beliefs because they�ve been told that they�re stupid all their lives. In order to get �revenge� on people who�ve told then that they�re stupid, the flat earth types embrace beliefs that undermine the authority of those people. If they have been told that they�re stupid because they don�t understand science, the flat earth types will embrace some ideology or belief that says the entire body of knowledge that comprises �science� is illegitimate.

This behavior stems from the emotional need to feel smart and important in a world that constantly tells you that you are dumb and insignificant. The fringe communities these people join give them the emotional security most people feel talking to family, friends, and people who share popular opinions and beliefs among themselves.

Now that there are giant, vocal, prominent online communities dedicated to fringe conspiracy beliefs that they can join, people like this don�t feel the need to censor themselves when talking about these subjects now; they don�t fear ostracism from the public and their real life communities because they don�t HAVE to live a lot of their lives in real life meat-space. They can believe what they want to believe and lob endless potshots at that larger public that had made them feel so small before they joined the fringe public.

And unfortunately our culture in the US and much of the West loves David and Goliath narratives and �Chosen one� narratives and narratives in which fringe beliefs come to occupy the whole world after an early period where those beliefs are persecuted by authorities and the public (ie Christianity). Psychologically, THESE particular inputs subconsciously drive much of the fringe believers, since they teach the believer that the world is against them, but if they just believe hard enough and stick to their guns that they will be able to shut up the naysayers and change the world in their own image. They have a lot of anger at said naysayers, so they will continue in their fringe belief so long as there is vocal opposition to that belief. Instead of dissuading the believer, intense vocal opposition from a majority of the public only reinforces the believer's resolve in sticking to their guns. Again, because those David and Goliath revenge narratives they've been conditioned with their whole lives emphasize that it's always the little guy, the underdog, the outnumbered who will triumph in their quest to get revenge against the powers that be.

It�s the same emotional need to get revenge on people who have made the believer feel stupid that drives people who embrace Nazism, Stalinism, all kinds of weird fringe conspiracy theories, etc. For example, when questioning why certain people hold far right beliefs, sometimes the believers let the mask slip a bit and admit that they started getting into those beliefs because they had been told they were stupid all their lives and they hate �elites� who have made them feel that way. Embracing knowledge gained outside the classroom is a form of emotional revenge against academic "elites" who have scorned them. Groups like incels and MGTOWs have been unusually honest about those drives to get revenge against those people who have made them feel bad, sadly; but flat earthers, even more sadly, are rarely honest about that emotional need and their drive to fulfill it. Instead they try to pretend to be scientific experts whose existence nullifies the need for expertise itself. But rest assured, it�s all an elaborate cover for the terror and insecurity and emotional stress they feel about being singled out as stupid. They just frame it as an intellectual belief instead of an unfulfilled emotional need.

EDIT: And also, people like this love to be able to lord over other people by showing off that they know more than other people, or are privy to secret knowledge that other people are not privy to. For instance, when arguing with someone who doesn't share their beliefs, flat earth types and fringe conspiracy types will often say things like, "Oh, and you believe everything the news tells you?" As if to try and draw a parallel between "the mainstream media" and the fringe community they belong to in terms of trustworthiness, indicating that the only difference between the two is scale. Or they hint that what THEY believe is secretly what all the experts believe, but the experts have been frightened into silence by some giant sinister conspiracy. Creating this kind of spooky, vague narrative around their belief gives that belief the aura of the forbidden, as well the aura that one holds much more valuable cards than the other players in the game. Nothing seems to make these kinds of guys happier than being able to, in confidence, give out little hints that they own the secrets to the universe to people they see as vulnerable to their propaganda.

Someone posted a TL:DR equivalent (quoted below) but I highly recommend reading all of the above anyway since it's a genuinely thought provoking piece.

quote:

Excellent points. Though I'd be a little gentler and say their emotional need to believe things like this stems from a feeling of powerlessness and low status and not so much revenge. They are generally prone to feelings of paranoia.

Let me summarize it. Conspiracy theories help their believers:
1. Feel part of a special community
2. Feel more important than their social status would otherwise be. They might even become seen as leaders in their community, something they've never achieved, or could ever achieve, otherwise.
3. Feel special and "in the know" and aware of info that others aren't.
4. It helps them feel in control and that an otherwise random and chaotic universe has reason to it. "JFK wasn't killed by some nobody who got off a lucky shot from the perfect spot. He was killed by a huge conspiracy of experts."
5. It confirms their belief that their state in life is not due to chance or their own choices but due to organized outside forces beyond their control.

Letting go of such beliefs would require abandoning all of this and returning to their reality of being poorly educated and/or socially isolated and responsible for their life.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180925075108.htm

Your example of Nazism is a good one because its early days hit a lot of these points.
1. Many rose up to position of power, some with power of life and death, with little education or credentials. Their main credentials were a willingness to believe in Nazism and follow orders. They would've otherwise been nobodies.
2. They believed that the loss of WW1 wasn't due to bad decisions by the German government and military or just a matter of numbers but it had to be an outside force. It had to be because of a betrayal by leftists and Jews. It wasn't a cold, unfeeling universe, it had logic and reason.
3. They were special, the master race. You could be a common laborer but because of your chance of birth you weren't a nobody but were actually superior to everyone else outside of your group.
4. They weren't responsible for their lot, they were actually victims. Others were responsible for it.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 02:14

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

monkeytek posted:

How many more years will the UK be giving them tax credits? I mean at some point they audit, correct? I'd take one glance at the stupid loving Coffee Bar and kill their money train.

About thirty more days or so.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 02:45

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Strangler 42 posted:

All games will be released before Star Citizen is finished.

Even Star Citizen.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 02:48

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

Beet Wagon posted:

Am I reading this right? Without the investment they would have been down to 6.9 million in reserves at the end of 2018? lmao

People were able to deduce that from the first report. And given they typically get $10+m at the end of the year, they likely would have run out of money mid-next year without the investment. This is why people have been pointing out that the official purpose of the investment as being for 'release marketing' is an obvious lie. Even if they hit SQ42 beta by Q3 2020, they would be perilously close to running out of cash. That and simple google search reveals the Calders work in film financing and their prior involvement with Chris.

It is why they have only delayed the game by the quarter, and haven't been just casually pushing it back even when everybody can see it is really late. They are beholden to the terms of the completion guarantee, and probably don't have the latitude of delaying things by a year without serious repercussions. It is going to be fun if the game is still nowhere near done at the end of next year. Despite what backers think, they don't have all the time in the world to 'get it right'.

Tokamak fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Dec 22, 2019

# ? Dec 22, 2019 02:49

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Ambaire posted:

Someone posted something interesting on Reddit a couple days ago and I saved it and have been looking for an appropriate thread to post it in. I think the SC thread is good for it.

Originally in response to this post

I present, in all its glory:

Someone posted a TL:DR equivalent (quoted below) but I highly recommend reading all of the above anyway since it's a genuinely thought provoking piece.

I appreciate this. We�ve discussed a number of times the weird parallels in movements, and especially those charismatic little cults that spring up around individuals with high charisma, and the almost infinite supply of human stupidity for them to mine.

There�s a danger in going for one theory above all, however. The people that you describe do exist and do have a chip on their shoulder about a world they can�t necessarily engage with on the same level, but there�s also very specific people who both target and manipulate the grievances of said people.

If you�ve not plumbed the sheer crazy that is Q, take a snorkel. It really sits in the wheelhouse of esoteric knowledge, transgressive behaviors and a *really big* conspiracy that is basically a montage of the past fifty years UFO/Black Government/Illuminati, thrown into sharp relief. It�s the Bilderbergers on steroids, with everything from Reptilian aliens through �adrenochrome� (A fictional drug from �Fear and Loathing�).

# ? Dec 22, 2019 02:57

precision: May 7, 2006; by VideoGames

"There is a Conspiracy, but it's too stupid to know it exists." Rev. Ivan Stang

# ? Dec 22, 2019 03:04

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

Hav posted:

I appreciate this. We�ve discussed a number of times the weird parallels in movements, and especially those charismatic little cults that spring up around individuals with high charisma, and the almost infinite supply of human stupidity for them to mine.

There�s a danger in going for one theory above all, however. The people that you describe do exist and do have a chip on their shoulder about a world they can�t necessarily engage with on the same level, but there�s also very specific people who both target and manipulate the grievances of said people.

If you�ve not plumbed the sheer crazy that is Q, take a snorkel. It really sits in the wheelhouse of esoteric knowledge, transgressive behaviors and a *really big* conspiracy that is basically a montage of the past fifty years UFO/Black Government/Illuminati, thrown into sharp relief. It�s the Bilderbergers on steroids, with everything from Reptilian aliens through �adrenochrome� (A fictional drug from �Fear and Loathing�).

I think what resonated with me most about the longer quoted section is how perfectly it seems to fit for anything from flat earth theories to star citizen fanbois to even multi level marketing scams. Humanity is still mostly a mass of dumb sheep... I do admit that human psychology continually fascinates me. Why do we .. x. Why do our brains make us think/do/say z. etc. Am I really in control of my actions, or am I merely a trembling mass of programmed flesh? (insert Disco Elysium quotes)

Ambaire fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Dec 22, 2019

# ? Dec 22, 2019 03:16

Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

Beet Wagon posted:

One other interesting thing is that almost a quarter (22.8% in 2018) of their 'income' is not from pledges at this point, and that number has been steadily growing. That "Income other than pledges" category includes subscriptions (which, in theory, only go to support the youtube shows and poo poo) and "Incentives, Partnerships, and Other" which could be anything from money they have gaining interest in an account somewhere to tax breaks and co-sponsorship deals. In 2018 almost 8 million of their income (16%) came from incentives et. al, so I'd imagine they're scrambling like hell to find more of these temporary deals to offset losses.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 03:23

Erulisse: Feb 12, 2019; A bad poster trying to get better.

Ambaire posted:

I think what resonated with me most about the longer quoted section is how perfectly it seems to fit for anything from flat earth theories to star citizen fanbois to even multi level marketing scams. Humanity is still mostly a mass of dumb sheep... I do admit that human psychology continually fascinates me. Why do we .. x. Why do our brains make us think/do/say z. etc. Am I really in control of my actions, or am I merely a trembling mass of programmed flesh? (insert Disco Elysium quotes)

Yes we are in control of our actions. It's just called 'self-conscious', 'self-aware' living. People just dont want to. Its easier and happier to eat tasty big mac and blame others of enforcing 'unreal body standards'. More 'woke' people try to eat healthy but still they don't stop to think and apply earned 'thinking' expirience to their whole life. /food is just an example/
Man its early morning here, we need a separate thread about psychology.

Erulisse fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Dec 22, 2019

# ? Dec 22, 2019 04:19

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

AntherUslessPoster posted:

Yes we are in control of our actions. It's just called 'self-conscious', 'self-aware' living. People just dont want to. Its easier and happier to eat tasty big mac and blame others of enforcing 'unreal body standards'. More 'woke' people try to eat healthy but still they don't stop to think and apply earned 'thinking' expirience to their whole life. /food is just an example/
Man its early morning here, we need a separate thread about psychology.

Why not use this thread? Not like anyone's been talking about anything important anyway.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 04:46

DigitalPenny: Sep 3, 2018

Ambaire posted:

Why not use this thread? Not like anyone's been talking about anything important anyway.

I think this thread is the place for the discussion.

Star citizen the castle that is built in the sky, has defied gravirty, financial wisdom or even basic common sense.

Castles built in the sky always come back down to earth. The most impressive thing about star citizen is that it has kept aloft for so long. It really makes me think am I just missing something huge here because this makes no sense what's so ever..... After almost a decade of funding i must be wrong ?

The castle might have been sent skyward with lofty promises of game scope, flashy and over hyped marketing is certainly has played it's part, but I can't see that holding up for years of time.

There has to be some other unseen force keeping it up and I think it's some nerve in human physke that wants to be part of something bigger, something special to look past the impossible odds and be the man who gives David the sling.

In our case after giving David the tools for victory he skips the fight, goes to the Carribbean for a jolly in luxury yacht after flogging the new sling for cash, buys himself a mansion in LA, instead of outrage it's well this fighting style has never been done before, must be some grand master startegy in action. Better fund him the project some more, I'm sure gioloath won't see the attack comming from a New York penthouse.

This behaviour simply can't be explained by star citizen might be the best game ever.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 05:33

DigitalPenny: Sep 3, 2018

Beet Wagon posted:

One other interesting thing is that almost a quarter (22.8% in 2018) of their 'income' is not from pledges at this point, and that number has been steadily growing. That "Income other than pledges" category includes subscriptions (which, in theory, only go to support the youtube shows and poo poo) and "Incentives, Partnerships, and Other" which could be anything from money they have gaining interest in an account somewhere to tax breaks and co-sponsorship deals. In 2018 almost 8 million of their income (16%) came from incentives et. al, so I'd imagine they're scrambling like hell to find more of these temporary deals to offset losses.

I have always been baffled at this 1/5 of their income is from "other". How does this happen in a crowd funded space game? What the gently caress is in other? Like when is normal to market 20% of your revenue as misc?

Tax breaks marked as income ?
Partnerships for hardware ?? *Giggles*
Does CI have an investment portfolio building up in the background to provide an income stream for development?
Investment in CIG? Are there a horde of other investors locked away the 16 other shell companies?
Maybe it's cake sales from Ellroys cafe ?

The problem with the facts CIG toss out, is that I takes orders of magnitude more energy to dispel bullshit than it does to generate it.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 05:45

Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Ambaire posted:

Why not use this thread? Not like anyone's been talking about anything important anyway.

Here's something we can discuss that I could post in the proper thread, but I like and trust the people who frequent this one. Here goes:

I have a system build with an Intel I7-9700, and a Geforce 2700 Super. The CPU is cooled by an AIO cooler. The front of the case has 3 intake fans. The rear has 3 going out. Two at the top back, and one out the back, which is the one that flows over the AIO cooler radiator. It is a slightly positive pressure case due to the exhaust fans being behind holed screens, whereas the front fans are fully open.

CPU temps are 30 degrees idle. With a maxxed-out Prime95 stress test, it hits 66 degrees. So far so good.

The problem comes in when I stress the video card and CPU simultaneously. When the GPU gets hot enough for the fans to kick in, the hot air is forced up, and winds up primarily vented through the first fan it passes, which is the AIO radiator. Once I'm in that boat, the CPU heats up quite a bit, sometimes surpassing 80 degrees. It cools back down when the GPU fans spin down.

Ordinarily I'd have a side fan blowing into the case above the GPU to mitigate, but this is a glass case and I'd rather not drill holes into the glass.

Discuss.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 06:14

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Buy an Idris

# ? Dec 22, 2019 06:37

Fidelitious: Apr 17, 2018; MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

I dunno man, get rid of all the fans and liquid cool everything.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 07:30

boviscopophobic: Feb 5, 2016

Beet Wagon posted:

Yeah this seems like a reasonable assessment, but I do think there is an upper bound on the amount they're going to get in pledges. 2019 represents a pretty significant jump in pledge dollars over the past couple years, but it remains to be seen
whether it is the new normal or not. Based on 2014-2019 they seem likely to continue to make between 34 and 40 million dollars a year in pledges, assuming there isn't some massive drop (or spike) in backer confidence or something. 2019's current total of 43.7 million is almost two standard deviations from the norm for these years - still possible, but less probable. I'm dubious of any income forecasts pulled from their financials because continued growth relies on either continued increases in pledge money (possible, but again it's too early to tell if 2019 is the new norm) or continued growth of the "other" category of income, which seems really unlikely, because the well of tax breaks and corporate sponsorships seems like it probably has a bottom.

If you look at the daily totals recorded by the pledge tracker, there was a very clear and sudden change in behavior at the end of 2018, right around the announcement of the Calder investment and the release of the financials. The typical daily total on a "quiet" day tended to be higher, meaning a smaller proportion of income came from the big sales events which I had generally assumed to be when the majority of whale-fracking occurred. I don't know if I believe the tracker, and I certainly haven't been able to come up with a reasonable hypothesis to explain the change. But given that we are considering what appears to be an anomalously high pledge total in 2019, I thought it was worth bringing up again.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 08:06

Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Popete posted:

Buy an Idris

This seems the most sensible solution.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 08:12

BumbleOne: Jul 1, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

now buy a second one

# ? Dec 22, 2019 08:47

Agony Aunt: Apr 17, 2018; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Hav posted:

I appreciate this. We�ve discussed a number of times the weird parallels in movements, and especially those charismatic little cults that spring up around individuals with high charisma, and the almost infinite supply of human stupidity for them to mine.

There�s a danger in going for one theory above all, however. The people that you describe do exist and do have a chip on their shoulder about a world they can�t necessarily engage with on the same level, but there�s also very specific people who both target and manipulate the grievances of said people.

If you�ve not plumbed the sheer crazy that is Q, take a snorkel. It really sits in the wheelhouse of esoteric knowledge, transgressive behaviors and a *really big* conspiracy that is basically a montage of the past fifty years UFO/Black Government/Illuminati, thrown into sharp relief. It�s the Bilderbergers on steroids, with everything from Reptilian aliens through �adrenochrome� (A fictional drug from �Fear and Loathing�).

Thing is, this is why, in the face of all reason and logic, SC might keep getting funded for years to come, regardless of what they produce.

Take a look at Scientology. Despite it being a complete crock of poo poo to those on the outside, those on the inside keep tithing their money and being subservient to the org, believing what they are told. Scientology should never even have taken off. Its just bad quality sci-fi dressed up as a religion. Scientology should have failed years ago. Scientology should have been banned everywhere and its leaders in jail, but it didn't.

And i fear the same thing will happen with SC. The true believers will continue to tithe their money, they will continue to try and rope new people in with flashy images and talking about future content as though its real, while at the same time explaining to those who need something in their life that SC will make all their dreams come true, only it just needs a bit more money and the next major tech to be implemented.

This could last years and years and years, fuelled by the need for something that can't exist but is being promised will exist one day.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 09:21

Fumble: Sep 4, 2006; Can't post for 5 days!

Scruffpuff posted:

Here's something we can discuss that I could post in the proper thread, but I like and trust the people who frequent this one. Here goes:

I have a system build with an Intel I7-9700, and a Geforce 2700 Super. The CPU is cooled by an AIO cooler. The front of the case has 3 intake fans. The rear has 3 going out. Two at the top back, and one out the back, which is the one that flows over the AIO cooler radiator. It is a slightly positive pressure case due to the exhaust fans being behind holed screens, whereas the front fans are fully open.

CPU temps are 30 degrees idle. With a maxxed-out Prime95 stress test, it hits 66 degrees. So far so good.

The problem comes in when I stress the video card and CPU simultaneously. When the GPU gets hot enough for the fans to kick in, the hot air is forced up, and winds up primarily vented through the first fan it passes, which is the AIO radiator. Once I'm in that boat, the CPU heats up quite a bit, sometimes surpassing 80 degrees. It cools back down when the GPU fans spin down.

Ordinarily I'd have a side fan blowing into the case above the GPU to mitigate, but this is a glass case and I'd rather not drill holes into the glass.

Discuss.

Put the aio in the front of the case with the fans pulling air through it into the case, and the fans at the back and top blowing out.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 10:33

Regrettable: Jan 5, 2010

Fumble posted:

Put the aio in the front of the case with the fans pulling air through it into the case, and the fans at the back and top blowing out.

Agreed about the AIO but I'm not sure the fans at the top of the case are even necessary. They're lowering the amount of positive pressure in the case and could actually be making the airflow worse. Higher positive pressure would force air out of the top vents anyway. The main drawback to higher positive pressure is that more dust gets in so the inside of the PC has to cleaned more often. But how difficult is it really to pop off the side panel and spray some air duster for about 20 seconds once every 2-3 months?

# ? Dec 22, 2019 11:23

MedicineHut: Feb 25, 2016

DigitalPenny posted:

I have always been baffled at this 1/5 of their income is from "other". How does this happen in a crowd funded space game? What the gently caress is in other? Like when is normal to market 20% of your revenue as misc?

Tax breaks marked as income ?
Partnerships for hardware ?? *Giggles*
Does CI have an investment portfolio building up in the background to provide an income stream for development?
Investment in CIG? Are there a horde of other investors locked away the 16 other shell companies?
Maybe it's cake sales from Ellroys cafe ?

The problem with the facts CIG toss out, is that I takes orders of magnitude more energy to dispel bullshit than it does to generate it.

From what I understand the UK related "tax break" is an actual bona fide and direct cash grant based on overall production costs.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 11:48

MedicineHut: Feb 25, 2016

So, how was the holiday live streaming?! Any early reports about all the wonderfull things about Squadron 42 that CI showed there?

Can�t wait to watch it.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 11:49

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

Scruffpuff posted:

The problem comes in when I stress the video card and CPU simultaneously. When the GPU gets hot enough for the fans to kick in, the hot air is forced up, and winds up primarily vented through the first fan it passes, which is the AIO radiator. Once I'm in that boat, the CPU heats up quite a bit, sometimes surpassing 80 degrees. It cools back down when the GPU fans spin down.

Is 80 causing it to lose clocks or are you fretting over something nowhere near the thermal limitations of the hardware? Is the radiator hitting super high RPMs to keep it at that temperature or do you have more headroom to work with?

Generally with gaming PCs you should be concerned with your GPU's thermals ahead of your CPU, as GPUs gain clocks more aggressively from better thermals, so I'd just leave it alone if the CPU isn't throttling to 80 but just hanging out there.

This is after thermal saturation too, right?

# ? Dec 22, 2019 11:52

MedicineHut: Feb 25, 2016

boviscopophobic posted:

If you look at the daily totals recorded by the pledge tracker, there was a very clear and sudden change in behavior at the end of 2018, right around the announcement of the Calder investment and the release of the financials. The typical daily total on a "quiet" day tended to be higher, meaning a smaller proportion of income came from the big sales events which I had generally assumed to be when the majority of whale-fracking occurred. I don't know if I believe the tracker, and I certainly haven't been able to come up with a reasonable hypothesis to explain the change. But given that we are considering what appears to be an anomalously high pledge total in 2019, I thought it was worth bringing up again.

That tracker is the only thing sustaining confidence and therefore keeping this shitshow alive. What does your heart tell you?

# ? Dec 22, 2019 11:54

shrach: Jan 10, 2004; daylight ssssaving time

DigitalPenny posted:

I have always been baffled at this 1/5 of their income is from "other". How does this happen in a crowd funded space game? What the gently caress is in other? Like when is normal to market 20% of your revenue as misc?

Tax breaks marked as income ?
Partnerships for hardware ?? *Giggles*
Does CI have an investment portfolio building up in the background to provide an income stream for development?
Investment in CIG? Are there a horde of other investors locked away the 16 other shell companies?
Maybe it's cake sales from Ellroys cafe ?

The problem with the facts CIG toss out, is that I takes orders of magnitude more energy to dispel bullshit than it does to generate it.

I made this for last year. Not only does it include the tax credit, they show the tax credit in the year that it is earned (not the year it is received, which is 18 months later). This is all to make it look healthier than it is and also to hide the corporate welfare angle.

In fact, the first year of their UK accounts they included the tax credit as Turnover. It was a year later, they moved it to the bottom of the P&L and made it into Other Income.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 12:49

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

If anyone wants to back a real game made by a real company, I can recommend "Hades" by Supergiant. It's in early access on Steam but is completely playable.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1145360/Hades/

I bought it today because I loved two of their previous games, "Bastion" and "Transmission" and this one totally lives up to their standards.

I'm not shilling, I just think it's an awesome game. I played it for a few hours this afternoon and look forward to playing it heaps more.

Oh yeah, there's this thread too

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3907268&pagenumber=1&perpage=40

# ? Dec 22, 2019 14:15

shrach: Jan 10, 2004; daylight ssssaving time

starkebn posted:

If anyone wants to back a real game made by a real company, I can recommend "Hades" by Supergiant. It's in early access on Steam but is completely playable.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1145360/Hades/

I bought it today because I loved two of their previous games, "Bastion" and "Transmission" and this one totally lives up to their standards.

I'm not shilling, I just think it's an awesome game. I played it for a few hours this afternoon and look forward to playing it heaps more.

Oh yeah, there's this thread too

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3907268&pagenumber=1&perpage=40

I wonder if anyone will risk saying that you can currently get it for 1/3rd the current Steam price on the Epic Game Store. Not me. I say save all your money to spend on Star Citizen. Chris needs your money more than ever.

# ? Dec 22, 2019 15:16