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I was having doubts about 10 minutes into part 2 but in the end I found it very satisfying and am glad they stuck the landing. There's been a few disappointing points throughout the series for me but I feel the ending (both the finale and the final few episodes) really redeemed the whole show. Elliott's chat with ghost Krista during the montages will go down as one of my favorite scenes in the show. I guess I'm in the minority by being glad they didn't go down the sci-fi route because I found it disconnected from the themes the show has shown to this point. It was a fun twist in the final few three episodes but I'm glad they brought it back to the 'real world'.
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Dec 23, 2019 09:22
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nooneofconsequence posted:So if Elliot created E World before 5/9, how did he know Price was Angela's father? I got the vibe that "E World" isn't a manifestation, it's just the regular world he lives in. My guess about the machine is that it represents some kind of way for Whiterose to show someone an idealized reality in their head, like what Elliott made for himself, but it doesn't feel concrete. I'd also wonder why Price was adamant against it, assuming he was privy to it, did he just feel it was bullshit or was it purely out of spite for Whiterose? I feel like the more important theme with the concept of the machine is all about building a new world rather than trying to fix the problems in your current one. The only other straw I can grasp at is that the audience being in first-person perspective when Darlene wakes Elliott could mean something? That we aren't a personality but some other part of him, or y'know, it could just be to have a satisfying final shot but it is this show. I ended up going to the movies after watching this and this finale completely overshadowed any interest I had in the film, it's one of the few shows that I think I'll seriously give a re-watch. quote:I guess I'm in the minority by being glad they didn't go down the sci-fi route because I found it disconnected from the themes the show has shown to this point. It was a fun twist in the final few three episodes but I'm glad they brought it back to the 'real world'. I was really into it while they were going down that rabbit hole but I agree, I don't think there's any way it could've been as satisfying of a conclusion. Nanomachine Son fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 10:32
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I wasn't sure if I wanted them to go scifi, but I didn't end up that happy with the resolution. Wtf was with Tyrell's glowing death in the woods? Just hallucinating before he died? Angela was never shown anything by White Rose but just crazied herself into believing in it? It just felt like there needed be at least something weird about White Rose's machine and not make it all nonsense in her head.
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Dec 23, 2019 10:49
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TheOrange posted:The only other straw I can grasp at is that the audience being in first-person perspective when Darlene wakes Elliott could mean something? I took it that the personalities are looking at what Elliot is seeing while they're in the theater so we are too. The shot of his eye breaks from that, but that's probably just for good shot's sake.
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Dec 23, 2019 10:52
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Wonder if Whiterose saw Elliot’s multiple personalities and, I bet she knew about his fake F world inside his head (if Darlene knew then WR knew), and saw it all as an opportunity. Like, what if she saw it as proof that if one troubled, deeply broken human could create an entire perfect world in their head and hide in it so well that it felt 100% real, anyone could do this. Everyone’s brain has this potential, it just needs activation. For Elliot it was trauma, but maybe WR saw to it that others could do it through a machine. What if the entire purpose of the machine was to allow other people to open up this part of their mind and create their own fantasy world to escape into. They may be a lifeless husk in E (empty) world, but alive and happy in F (fake/fantasy) world. I wonder if this is what it was all about. It certainly wasn’t about time travel or multiple parallel realities. She always looked at Elliot as the key to everything. The machine short circuited right on top of him and maybe finally knocked him into his F world. I wonder if she “showed” Angela her own F world by alighting the machine onto Angela’s mind and after that she broke. We will never know, but it’s fun to wonder, I guess.
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Dec 23, 2019 11:05
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Goddam that was great. Also, I’m pretty sure Intro was used for another season’s finale so I’m not too surprised about Outro cropping up.
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Dec 23, 2019 11:27
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I have no idea what the gently caress is going on but I absolutely loved it. Luckily I was a fan of Darlene - she seemed to have a few haters around. Her emotional connection to the real Elliot is.. basically the whole point of the show, right? She's the only one who is still alive that really cares. Will real Elliot have a whole new bunch of traumas to work with since Mastermind has fucken taken his life in a radically new direction and oh hey, Angela's dead, your Mum's dead, etc.. How long did this guy have control of Elliot? Ever since he fell out the window? Or periodically since then? Ok wait, no, he didn't remember making F-Society did he? So only recently. gently caress I think I have to at least watch S1E1 again with such a shift in perspective. Maybe the whole first season would be worth it. Chadzok fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 12:00
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Chadzok posted:I have no idea what the gently caress is going on but I absolutely loved it. literally since the first episode i think. possibly before that, but i think it's implied that who we have seen as "Elliot" the whole time was just Mastermind.
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Dec 23, 2019 12:05
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Lupus Rufus posted:literally since the first episode i think. possibly before that, but i think it's implied that who we have seen as "Elliot" the whole time was just Mastermind. Surely it had to have been some time before that, that pedo dude was not his first rodeo.
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Dec 23, 2019 12:14
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Didn't recognise the intro to Mr Roboto so enjoyed it as an Epcot imagined-perfect-community thing at first. Really liked the catastrophe brought on by Mastermind - it felt very much like Better Than Life & Rimmer's subconscious sabotaging of it all - it's just not his job to be happy. Glad to see Krista getting the respect she deserved too. (Nice fakeout with 'some/all of this is therapy' for a second too). Good closing episodes to a good show. Saw somewhere that the reveal necessitates a rewatch of the series but it really doesn't seem to reshape things to that extent.
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Dec 23, 2019 12:23
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It’s kind of obvious but I really like the notion that Elliot was just a boring guy with trauma that “snapped” and then his life essentially became “hack the planet” and “befriend CEOs” and “ get mixed up with crazed murderous drug dealers” etc... As a story concept that entertains me.
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Dec 23, 2019 15:21
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Feenix posted:It’s kind of obvious but I really like the notion that Elliot was just a boring guy with trauma that “snapped” and then his life essentially became “hack the planet” and “befriend CEOs” and “ get mixed up with crazed murderous drug dealers” etc... Yes, as it sinks in I definitely agree with this. Would've been awesome to see the switch happen in a few days leading up to S01E01, but I bet we can just imagine it. Really enjoyed the whole series! What a journey!
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Dec 23, 2019 15:28
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No closure on what happened to Flipper. Disappointing poo poo show.
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Dec 23, 2019 15:36
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TraderStav posted:Yes, as it sinks in I definitely agree with this. Would've been awesome to see the switch happen in a few days leading up to S01E01, but I bet we can just imagine it. Quite possible the switch is occurring when Darlene first shows up again in Elliot's life (First part of Season 2 Episode 4).
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Dec 23, 2019 15:43
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I thought the switch might have happened during his time trapped in the server room at his old job. He did say he blacked out and woke up to everything destroyed in the room
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Dec 23, 2019 15:51
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pitch a fitness posted:Quite possible the switch is occurring when Darlene first shows up again in Elliot's life (First part of Season 2 Episode 4). That late in the show? I would've thought that it would've occurred earlier as he didn't recognize it her pretty early in the show. ^^^ Yes, that feels right!
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Dec 23, 2019 15:52
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Sorry I meant some indication onscreen as there is a change Darlene notices. He'd seen Krista offscreen by then and she'd only met the Mastermind Elliot so yeah server room could have been the start.
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Dec 23, 2019 16:07
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Can't believe they stuck the landing. I am very much entertained and satisfied. Just watched S01E01 straight after and it was very satisfying to watch with the new lense on. When he wanders off on his gently caress Society rant and Krista calls him out on "youre hiding again" and "you can't let that side of you take control" I grinned from ear to ear.
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Dec 23, 2019 16:11
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I thought the ending was interesting. But I'm not sure it was that necessary? For most of the show, the only part of Eliot's personalities we deal with is Mr. Robot. Why bring up the fact that the Eliot we know is a part of Eliot's personality called "the Mastermind?" So Eliot's a genius level hacker, but never would have done all this crazy poo poo if his "mastermind" personality made him do it? I wonder what Eliot was doing before he snapped. WTF.
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Dec 23, 2019 16:15
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FuzzySlippers posted:Wtf was with Tyrell's glowing death in the woods? Just hallucinating before he died? it seems like a lot of people expected this to be explained but i always assumed it was just creative license used to lampshade that 'yes he is really dying' even if we weren't going to see the death on camera
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Dec 23, 2019 16:18
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That scene from 4x13 side by side with 1x04 https://v.redd.it/8snsgf0udc641
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Dec 23, 2019 16:34
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Tyrell found Marcellus Wallace’s briefcase
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Dec 23, 2019 16:34
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Elliot's ending was satisfying to me. But there are a few other things that they never explained. First off, what the gently caress happened with Tyrell? He was shot in the woods and then he saw a glowing box of some kind, and then the later episodes he was shown as the CEO of E-Corp...but that transition wasn't explained. Second, what exactly was whiterose's machine and how did she brainwash Angela? And why did whiterose have to commit suicide in order for her vision to come true (in her mind)?
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Dec 23, 2019 17:10
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White Rose's machine was this, basically: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Hadron_Collider You can see a summary of it on the laptop screen in the two episodes before the finale. White Rose truly believed that it would lead to time travel and the ability to rewrite the past and her killing herself was meant to demonstrate that belief. She was also basically screwed at that point, and didn't have any other real out other than turning herself in.
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Dec 23, 2019 17:19
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TheOrange posted:I'd also wonder why Price was adamant against it, assuming he was privy to it, did he just feel it was bullshit or was it purely out of spite for Whiterose? Nice ending, I think. I was really worried for a moment that the twist was going to be that the E-World was a fabrication of a bored, real Elliot-F, but the way they went with it worked. I can't help feeling just a little deflated that the person we've been following was just another fragment of the real Elliot's identity. It makes sense, but I don't really feel like I was adequately prepared for it. I dunno, maybe I really was hoping for a more reality-bending end to the show, but frankly the show delivered exactly what it always has. The Machine was always a delusion and only worked on people subject to that delusion, like Whiterose, Angela and, ultimate, Elliot's Mastermind persona. Everyone who died is still dead, and the healthy course is to process those feelings instead of trying to rewrite them.
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Dec 23, 2019 17:36
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I am also wondering what the hell Tyrell saw when he died. I'm tempted to just ask Esmail on Twitter. My guess is it was just metaphorical for Tyrell finding whatever he always wanted. And Angela was probably brainwashed like a cultist. That's my guess.
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Dec 23, 2019 18:47
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My one nagging question is why did Whiterose even give Elliot the means to shut down her machine at all? Did she know that it wasn't going to work (maybe it was still incomplete and the move to the Congo would have allowed her to finish it) and her final, desperate act? Or was she so convinced of her rightness that she felt Elliot would allow it to run its course even if she died? I get that she was unstable and largely unwound by the end, but her last acts seem way too irrational, even for that. She'd been planning this for like 30 years. To voluntarily give anyone the means to stop it seems really out of character.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:05
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We can' know if she actually gave him a way to turn it off. You could also argue she believed Elliot would not turn it off once he had an idea of what it was or what was going on.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:12
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Dec 23, 2019 19:19
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If the real Elliot was peeking out here and there over the course of the show, how did he know who anyone was (Vera) or what was going on?
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Dec 23, 2019 19:30
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I just wanted to say thank you to everyone. This is the 1st TVIV thread I've ever started and I was nervous because I love Mr Robot a ton. I enjoyed live posting with everyone. It's been a fun season and I greatly enjoyed it
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Dec 23, 2019 19:40
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IdealFlaws posted:And Angela was probably brainwashed like a cultist. That's my guess. Also real Elliot is sure going to have a lot of new traumas to process after waking up. "Hey you were gone for like a year. You were part of a plot that led to the deaths of thousands of people and a lot of human suffering, but in the end you saved more and gave a bunch of people money so it's cool. Also Shayla and Angela are dead. Good luck!"
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Dec 23, 2019 20:25
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nooneofconsequence posted:But it didn't even take a day! They hand-waved her complete conversion and descent by repeatedly saying Whiterose showed her something. Can't blame people for wondering what. Maybe Whiterose built the mesmerism device from Watchmen. He may not even KNOW shayla. I mean... maybe?
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Dec 23, 2019 20:38
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lol @ all the incredibly wrong theory crafting ITT. Of course it wasn't really an alternate reality. We've been shown time and time again that Elliot is prone to very realistic and extreme delusion. That's like... the whole point of the show. What is the significance of "I boob New York"?
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Dec 23, 2019 20:59
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I liked it, but I'm still iffy on the alternates' individual agency. Elliot's basically a Voltron. Personally, the takedown of Deus Group felt like the show's conclusion. I was hoping Whiterose's machine would be like a 'surrealist superscience chicanery' epilogue.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:05
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Feenix posted:He may not even KNOW shayla. I mean... maybe? I was wondering that myself. When he met her he was pretty awkward and already had a morphine habit. According to a reddit timeline I found, this was before the Halloween where he hatched his 5/9 plot. But that was after his server room blowup. Was real Elliot still in control at all at that point? I guess we'll never know and it's ultimately meaningless but that would be an even bigger loss of time for Elliot prime.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:22
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How does the 4th wall (and its acknowledgment) factor into any of this?
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Dec 23, 2019 21:34
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Big TV pitch idea: a conspiracy show that doesn't decide "our conspiracy was never important" immediately before its series finale
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Dec 23, 2019 21:37
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Iverron posted:It’s a much better finale than LOST’s was but all the little mysteries and recurring imagery going completely unanswered does remind me a bit of LOST.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:52
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Mameluke posted:Big TV pitch idea: a conspiracy show that doesn't decide "our conspiracy was never important" immediately before its series finale For sure. I feel like there was a lot of condescension by Esmail to not look at your entire life as the protest. With how people will caution one another to practice self-care, and not experience fatigue from always being on. Even Irving wrote his book and went on a signing tour. There's life after the movement, and it's voting moderate.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:09
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