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Wait, people want more of Rabbit-Horses crashing through a casino with two entire side plots that had no effect on the main plot?
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Dec 23, 2019 19:06
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Burning_Monk posted:Wait, people want more of Rabbit-Horses crashing through a casino with two entire side plots that had no effect on the main plot? This is Star Wars, it's imperfect. That whole segment was a mistake, nice strawman though.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:08
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Donovan Trip posted:This is Star Wars, it's imperfect. That whole segment was a mistake, nice strawman though. The whole movie was a mistake.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:13
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I just rewatched TLJ on Friday to prepare for RoS which I watched on Sunday and enjoyed, and upon rewatching it I actually really love that movie... except for the entire Casino sideplot. I hate it, and knowing that it fails and doesn’t work and has no bearing on anything just means that there is a 35 minute hole towards the back end of a movie I otherwise enjoy. The dumpstering of Rose is the most egregious thing in the new trilogy. There are just so many moments in RoS where they could have done something and instead.. did nothing. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 19:14
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I liked taking away the Skywalker monopoly on force power, I liked that great mastery of the force does not bring happiness or peace whether you're the light or dark side, I liked the obliteration of the institutions and the idea you have to destroy the legacy of both to return to the essence of understanding the force. I like how much exploration of the force there was period, most of these movies (and explicitly JJs) simply state it exists and TLJ at least attempted to explore the nature of it. I think all these motifs would have been better explored far away from the Skywalker stuff. If you haven't watched it in a while, give it a chance to meet what it's saying on its terms. Donovan Trip fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 19:21
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mllaneza posted:Bringing that up as a real issue was my favorite part of TLJ and I wish Rian Johnson had more scope for his ideas long those lines. I agree, luckily it's something I get to focus on in the RPGs I run!
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Dec 23, 2019 19:28
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Most of my problems with TLJ stem from its execution more than its themes. It just feels really poorly made to me. If nothing else it’s not as boring as TFA but I still thought it was real bad.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:39
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Remove the casino planet, have Holdo not be a smug moron, and don't have the characters rubberband back to the status quo right at the end after spending the whole film exploring interesting themes and it could've been really good.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:48
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Captain Splendid posted:Remove the casino planet, have Holdo not be a smug moron, and don't have the characters rubberband back to the status quo right at the end after spending the whole film exploring interesting themes and it could've been really good. 
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Dec 23, 2019 19:49
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Have the actual codebreaker betray them because Maz is working with the first order
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Dec 23, 2019 19:52
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Captain Splendid posted:Remove the casino planet, have Poe not be a smug moron, and don't have the characters rubberband back to the status quo right at the end after spending the whole film exploring interesting themes and it could've been really good. Fixed it for me.
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Dec 23, 2019 20:41
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Casino planet shows there's this whole bougie world of war profiteers who couldn't care less what's happening with the Skywalkers. This is what pushes Finn to accept his role in the conflict instead of staying on the sidelines or running away, that there's something he values fighting for that's greater than himself. TLJ is working with the threads TFA gave it, I dunno I thought it went interesting places.
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Dec 23, 2019 20:53
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Fixed it for me. Counterpoint: Poe being a smug moron, then learning he was being a smug moron, and then trying to fix it is the entirety of his character arc, though.
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Dec 23, 2019 20:57
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Madurai posted:Counterpoint: Poe being a smug moron, then learning he was being a smug moron, and then trying to fix it is the entirety of his character arc, though. Agreed. Finn learns this lesson too in the end when he nearly kills himself in a hairbrained ineffective final assault. The lesson is running isn't a solution but destroying yourself isn't the answer either, Finn/Poe/Rey learn to shed their fear and guilt to achieve mastery of themselves.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:05
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Donovan Trip posted:Agreed. Finn learns this lesson too in the end when he nearly kills himself in a hairbrained ineffective final assault. The lesson is running isn't a solution but destroying yourself isn't the answer either, Finn/Poe/Rey learn to shed their fear and guilt to achieve mastery of themselves. But the lesson was destroying yourself is cool and good to save your friends, that's what Holdo and Luke did. Hell that's what Rose did she crashed herself into a coma to save Finn, from crashing to save his friends
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Dec 23, 2019 21:18
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Holdo manuever didn't solve anything and Luke didn't die, he ascended. Rose stacks a failure on a failure, it's consistent. The whole movie is about the rebels failing.
Donovan Trip fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 21:38
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Donovan Trip posted:Casino planet shows there's this whole bougie world of war profiteers who couldn't care less what's happening with the Skywalkers. This is what pushes Finn to accept his role in the conflict instead of staying on the sidelines or running away, that there's something he values fighting for that's greater than himself. It’s this. The Canto Bight sequence does a lot to build Rose and Finn’s character arc that leads to the final lessons they learn and the changes they make in their identities. Anyone who thinks it “doesn’t do anything in the story” is only doing a really basic surface read and probably needs poo poo spelled out carefully for them.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:52
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The real take away from Canto Bight is that Finn and Rose shouldn't park where they aren't supposed to.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:54
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I had someone explain Canto Bight is good or at least had an intended good purpose. We see the true problem in star wars, the cause of this constant cycle between liberal democracy and fascism the universe seems trapped in: capital. No matter which side is in power, capital keeps profiting off war and supplying hardware for what ever government is in power. That you can keep blowing up the latest super weapon or sith lord but while capitalism still exists the cycle will keep happening. Like, that's a good and timely message. But it's still extremely poorly inserted into the movie.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:00
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People only hate TLJ because it didn’t provide the feel-good nostalgia trip they wanted where nothing about their identification with the heroes is questioned.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:11
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Why didnt they just make a droid do the holdo maneuver
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Dec 23, 2019 22:30
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Baronjutter posted:Like, that's a good and timely message. But it's still extremely poorly inserted into the movie. See also: the prequel trilogy for more good and timely messages inserted poorly into Star Wars! TLJ did it reasonably better at least. The Mandalorian is proof the further you get from the Skywalker baggage the better Star Wars is and again, I think Rian Johnson would make a great Star Wars story without all that.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:31
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Donovan Trip posted:Casino planet shows there's this whole bougie world of war profiteers who couldn't care less what's happening with the Skywalkers. This is what pushes Finn to accept his role in the conflict instead of staying on the sidelines or running away, that there's something he values fighting for that's greater than himself. See, in theory, I really like this. It’s just that the Canto Bight sequence was kinda boring and weird in the larger context.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:38
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WHY BONER NOW posted:Why didnt they just make a droid do the holdo maneuver That’s actually one of two serious criticisms I have of the plot. The other being that Holdo was right not to trust Poe but also should have thrown him in the brig as soon as he started flipping out instead of leaving him with free run of the ship to start a mutiny, since he was already known for going rogue when he thought he knew better.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:41
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Holdo is the captain going down with her ship, in Star Wars space is the ocean. That isn't a task you put on someone else, and droids are probably more universally useful at this point of the war than more captains.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:44
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Holdo should have put a blaster bolt in Poe.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:48
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They shouldn’t have split Poe and Finn up. They could have gone to Casino Night Zone together and built the relationship they already had, as well as give the beleaguered B plot more attention and care to work into the A plot. Either Arian Johnson thought he had something with the frankly boring slow speed chase, or Disney got cold feet on putting Finn and Poe together. Goddammit, TLJ. You were so close to greatness! Just cut off your rear end!
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Dec 23, 2019 22:53
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You have to do some mental leaps to make sense of some things in TLJ, but they hold up well under scrutiny unlike the BIG SURPRISE in the new one. Plus that whole sequence of her sacrificing the ship was a jaw dropping moment, when it went silent as she tore through the enemy the entire crowd held their breath. It was really, really cool and maybe my favorite moment in any of the new ones.Pollyanna posted:They shouldn’t have split Poe and Finn up. They could have gone to Casino Night Zone together and built the relationship they already had, as well as give the beleaguered B plot more attention and care to work into the A plot. Either Arian Johnson thought he had something with the frankly boring slow speed chase, or Disney got cold feet on putting Finn and Poe together. I also agree with this
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Dec 23, 2019 22:54
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Madurai posted:Counterpoint: Poe being a smug moron, then learning he was being a smug moron, and then trying to fix it is the entirety of his character arc, though. Yeah but what we got was more like Poe gets a bunch of people killed, doesn't learn anything, then helps Finn and Rose get even more people killed, and has no moment to indicate he's learned anything outside of a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot of him telling his half dead crew to turn around before Finn tries to suicide. They basically breezed right past how Finn, Poe, and Rose got half the fleet killed and were given no moment of remorse. I think there's a big difference between "needing everything spelled out" and inferring a bunch of poo poo that wasn't there but should have been.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:10
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What thread is this?
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Dec 23, 2019 23:15
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This is the thread for Good Star Wars things, I agree. The discussion is probably better for CD.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:18
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Pollyanna posted:This is the thread for Good Star Wars things, I agree. The discussion is probably better for CD. I suspect the Star Wars thread there is carrying a much different and shittier tone.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:32
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I like mandalorian because it feels like it actually takes place righ-ish after ROTJ and I can safely ignore the disney movies and the prequels.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:36
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Donovan Trip posted:Plus that whole sequence of her sacrificing the ship was a jaw dropping moment, when it went silent as she tore through the enemy the entire crowd held their breath. It was really, really cool and maybe my favorite moment in any of the new ones. The audience I was in had the same reaction: stunned silence. It was a genuine cinematic moment.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:37
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Donovan Trip posted:I hope Rian gets a chance to make something Star Wars without any Skywalker baggage. I love the last jedi but I'm not sure it was the right place to put him, Disney and the GA wanted a nostalgia trip. What Rian did with the themes of Star Wars probably didn't belong in this series. But it's still one of the highest reviewed Star Wars movies and it made a billion dollars so hopefully he gets that chance. gently caress that guy. He had a once in a life time play date and he shat in the toybox.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:40
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mllaneza posted:The audience I was in had the same reaction: stunned silence. It was a genuine cinematic moment. I love that moment so, so much.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:50
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mllaneza posted:The audience I was in had the same reaction: stunned silence. It was a genuine cinematic moment. Yeah it looks great but it being silent didn't make sense when the rest of star wars space warfare isn't. 5/10
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Dec 23, 2019 23:57
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Rocksicles posted:Yeah it looks great but it being silent didn't make sense when the rest of star wars space warfare isn't. 5/10 who cares, the silence made the moment even cooler
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Dec 24, 2019 00:03
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It was dramatic silence in the same way that it's dramatic noise in every other situation.
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Dec 24, 2019 00:05
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I know everyone’s schedule is messed up by the early release this week, but TLJ bitching is Tuesday.
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Dec 24, 2019 00:07
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