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esperterra posted:I'm fine with them saving some of the exposition dump, especially for witchers, for season 2. That said I still think they could have spent more time with Geralt preparing for the striga fight. A little show, don't tell. Then go into more detail when we hit the Kaer Morhen stuff in 2. As someone already familiar with the lore from the games (particularly Witcher 3), it’s tough for me to evaluate how well they did balancing this. Reactions seem to range from people who wanted more explicit exposition on Witchers, sorcerers/sorceresses, and politics/geography, to people who felt bored/overwhelmed with what was already in there, to people who were pretty satisfied. Then again, I’ve seen a ton of existing fans complaining that Geralt didn’t have two swords, when they repeatedly show him hauling around the second one, and having two is what tips Jaskier off that he’s a witcher when they first meet, so... as always, not everyone pays close attention, even the diehards. I will say that while I thought Ciri’s actress did a fine job, and while I get why they did multiple timelines, so as to introduce Geralt/Yen/Ciri up front and as equally lead characters, I don’t think the non-linearity added much else beyond that, and merely added to the cognitive load for new viewers already trying to keep track the usual flood of nouns that comes with a new fantasy setting. Ciri’s plot also had the most filler. So I’m not sure the tradeoff was worth it. Anyway, binged it all on day 1 and am thoroughly looking forward to season 2, even despite its flaws. Some of the comments from book-readers here make me a little nervous that changes made in the adaptation might have negative knock-on effects later on, but we’ll see. Also, only casting I was iffy on was Triss, and I adjusted my expectations on her pretty quickly. I think the actress did a fine job, for the brief bits she had.
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Dec 23, 2019 20:56
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The only big changes I can see possibly loving with stuff down the line are changes to Fringilla and Cahir, tbh. The changes to Yen's storyline didn't effect the trajectory of it at all.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:09
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chaosapiant posted:For what’s it’s worth I think the actress works fine as Triss. I also think she’ll be swapping a certain plot line from Fringilla to her with Geralt later in the series. It makes sense with how they’ve set up the characters. Fringilla and Triss are both decent actresses and I'd go as far as to say I like Fringilla a lot. People are just mad that Triss isn't a hot red head and that Fringilla is black because tHeRe'S nO BlAck peOpLe iN tHe wITcHeR. A Buttery Pastry posted:Not everything has to be exposited on. The fact that potions are something Geralt has to imbibe further underscores the fact that his power comes from his physical body, him drinking them does not need more purpose than that. It also leaves them an opening for expanding on the nature of the potions in S2, without people going "Well, why didn't he use them before then??". Kinda does when it's interesting and helps build a character. I don't know how much fact casual viewers can see with his physical body mutations from him chugging a potion twice and getting demon eyes. Can anyone drink the potion and get stronger? Why don't they do it then? What makes Geralt special? I'm sure it'll be expanded upon in S2 but it could have easily been done this season as well.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:17
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I’ve seen it referred to as “sjw casting” People hate black folks getting acting gigs.
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Dec 23, 2019 21:23
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A black sheriff???
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Dec 23, 2019 21:30
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The compromise here should be that all the prostitutes that Geralt bangs should be hot redheads
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Dec 23, 2019 21:39
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I have no issues with Fringilla's casting. It's the changes they made to her and Cahir's character and by extension Nilfgaard that baffles me. Making her black is nothing and actually not a bad change considering Nilfgaard is in the south and her uncle is from there as well. Cintra is a northern kingdom in name only but geographically it is pretty far south as well, so giving them a Spanish/Portugese aesthetic with some Moorish looking citizens being present works pretty well. Casting black actors doesn't hurt the show at all. It's odd script and character changes that are potential problems going forward. I've been thinking more about the ballsack rhino armor and really is the only thing that doesn't track for me on the production side of things. Geralt has fantasy armor but it at least tries to look like a gambesons with a coat of plates, Dandelion has a fancy suit. The Cintrian and Temerian armours look excellent and the mages can wear whatever the gently caress they want. Vilgefortz has a stupid "armour" that is a couple of wonky metal squares sewn onto his shirt and bandits and the crinfrid reavers have dumb rags and spikes armor but it's no worse than other shows. The only thing that looks truly terrible is the Nilfgaard costumes. What the gently caress were they thinking? Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 21:42
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Doltos posted:Fringilla and Triss are both decent actresses and I'd go as far as to say I like Fringilla a lot. People are just mad that Triss isn't a hot red head and that Fringilla is black because tHeRe'S nO BlAck peOpLe iN tHe wITcHeR. Doltos posted:Kinda does when it's interesting and helps build a character. I don't know how much fact casual viewers can see with his physical body mutations from him chugging a potion twice and getting demon eyes. Can anyone drink the potion and get stronger? Why don't they do it then? What makes Geralt special? I'm sure it'll be expanded upon in S2 but it could have easily been done this season as well. DeadFatDuckFat posted:The compromise here should be that all the prostitutes that Geralt bangs should be hot redheads
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Dec 23, 2019 21:58
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Did anyone else think that the assassin dude with face paint might’ve been a younger Rience?
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Dec 23, 2019 22:09
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Nah. If he were Rience he'd be more of a douchebag bragging about how great he is.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:20
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What’s the name of those two creepy detective Geralt employs in the saga? I want to say Codhringer and Fenn? It’s been a bit since I read them. I love those two and hope they make it into the show.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:26
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I think that casting black actors is kindaaa projecting American culture onto non-American literature. If anything Central Asian and Middle Eastern actors would be more appropriate for Eastern European fantasy people. I mean, it's not like making Fringilla Vigo black is a terrible crime but like what about the Asian characters who would fit in a lot more naturally in a medieval Polish setting?
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Dec 23, 2019 22:31
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Again Cintra is fantasy Portugal/Spain. Having some Moors or Fantasy equivalent present is not a hard stretch. It's a coastal kingdom, same as Blaviken being in the duchy of Arcsea near the ocean. They're using the same map as the games, which does have its issues but the African and Middle Eastern equivalents, Zerrikania and Ofier, are to the south and East, past the dragon mountains. The Witcher isn't set in Poland. It's heavily inspired by Polish folklore and traditions, but it also takes from Western European fairy tales and Arthurian legend. I'm very broad strokes, you can classify the different regions in The Witcher thusly: The Northern Kingdoms are an amalgam of different European kingdoms that have been swapped around a bit. Redania is kind of like England with its inland capital and focus on education with university cities like Oxenfurt. Temeria is France and most depictions of the country give it a Fleur de Lys and many French sounding names. It also is the home of Aretuza, giving the brotherhood/conclave a sort of Catholic Church state of influence over other monarchs. Kaedwen is Eastern Europe with a heavy focus on Cossack culture and cavalry men. It is also the home of Kaer Morhen, hidden in the Blue Mountains. Aedirn is Poland/Lithuania. It is a more fractious nation that is constantly getting pulled one way or the other by the powers surrounding it, but when unified they are a formidable culture capable of standing with the other powers. Kovir and Poviss in the far north are analogous to Sweden and Switzerland with their immense wealth tied up in northern commerce. Skellige is a cross between Ireland, Norway and Denmark. They're Vikings with a Celtic bent, and seen as throwbacks compared to the more modern traditions of the continent. Nilfgaard is a mix between the Netherlands and the Holy Roman Empire. It's not so much a country as a collection of Imperial states, with places like Vicovarro and Touissant being part of the empire but semi autonomous duchies. Touissant has a sort of French Riviera vibe to it, being in the south but not quite as Germanic as Nilfgaard. Novigrad is a free city in Redania's borders that has clear parallels with Novgorod in real life. The Witcher draws on history to inform it's nations but it goes far beyond just being Polish. There's a lot of commentary on 20th century geopolitics in The Witcher with the power plays for the north pretty much being Sapkowski's satire of German and Russian expansionism while the rest of Europe sat back and watched and only got off their asses to fight when they had no other option. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 22:40
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Lemony posted:I feel like magic usage was handled in varying degrees of interesting through the season. Sometimes it seemed poorly depicted and sometimes not. Yenn's duel with the assassin I think could have used more interesting magic. The one detail I really like though was her tiny tent being huge and luxurious on the inside. It really felt like the kind of thing wizards would do with that kind of power and I appreciate that they didn't immediately have a character verbally call attention to it. I really didn't like her dumb fight with the Reavers where she suddenly became an expert swordsman that used no magic. In the book the Reavers ambush her and Geralt and tie her up thinking she can't use magic without hands and she ends up blasting them with her feet. Hell, even if she had to sword fight show her using magic to even the odds like slowing people down so she can get in cheap shots. Something she already did earlier that episode!
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Dec 23, 2019 22:42
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Thundercracker posted:I really didn't like her dumb fight with the Reavers where she suddenly became an expert swordsman that used no magic. In the book the Reavers ambush her and Geralt and tie her up thinking she can't use magic without hands and she ends up blasting them with her feet. I suspect fight choreography is cheaper than VFX.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:46
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I’m probably in the minority here, but I’ll go out on a limb and say I have a big issue with TV characters being miscast with regards to their looks (which, in this context, is about race). It was a problem when ScarJo was cast as Motoko, a Japanese character, and it’s a problem Anna Shaffer is cast as Triss, a redhead. Except in ScarJo’s cast it’s at least somewhat understandable (although still wrong, but also for different reasons!), as there aren’t very many Japanese actors who the studio might have been willing to take a big risk on to star in a big budget production (which becomes a feedback cycle, I know). Whereas how hard could it have been to find a talented redhead actress to play Triss? They are a dime dozen. I mean, the fact that Cavill looks, sounds and acts just like Geralt is a big selling point. Similarly, Netflix Triss looking nothing at all like book/game Triss is a major detractor.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:49
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But in the English books Triss is a brunette due to a translation error.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:52
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Triss is only a fiery redhead in the games. She has brown/chestnut hair in the books. Under good lighting in the show you see the reddish tint to it.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:53
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hobbesmaster posted:But in the English books Triss is a brunette due to a translation error. No, she isn't. I've read the English books and she's described as having reddish/chestnut colored hair. The actress they used has pretty drat close if not correct hair color.
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Dec 23, 2019 22:55
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Triss as a more egregious miscast than Motoko is a spicy hot take
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Dec 23, 2019 22:57
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Geralt sounds a lot like the Ancient Reptilian Brain in Disco Elysium
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Dec 23, 2019 22:57
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divx posted:Geralt sounds a lot like the Ancient Reptilian Brain in Disco Elysium Which works out since Jaskier sounds like the limbic system. 
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Dec 23, 2019 23:02
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Arcsquad12 posted:Again Cintra is fantasy Portugal/Spain. Having some Moors or Fantasy equivalent present is not a hard stretch. It's a coastal kingdom, same as Blaviken being in the duchy of Arcsea near the ocean. What were the accents like in the polish version of the games? Iirc in English Temeria was generic British, Kaedwen wobbled between irish/Scottish, Redania was Yorkshire and aedirn welsh. Although that might have just been the major characters from there. Was still cool to have regional accents though, instead of everyone being genetically british. I do feel sad that the show didn't seem to have that distinction. If you listen to Mousesack and Eist, nothing about them screams "northern vikings". I do like how Pan-european the books are. Vodka and leshys sitting alongside celts and excaliber.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:04
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Strom Cuzewon posted:What were the accents like in the polish version of the games? Iirc in English Temeria was generic British, Kaedwen wobbled between irish/Scottish, Redania was Yorkshire and aedirn welsh. Although that might have just been the major characters from there. Was still cool to have regional accents though, instead of everyone being genetically british. The games did do that language distinction (Temerian peasants have West Country accents while the nobility are more Sussex and upper class stereotypes) but it's mostly an English localization quirk and other translations aren't as intentional with their accent distinctions. According to people I've asked in the games thread, there are a few localization quirks for other languages, but for the original Polish a lot of the accents are instead based more around cultural stereotypes because few countries have the same variety of local accents as the British. The Bloody Baron in Witcher 3 has a Brummie accent in English but in Polish his performance is based more around a drunken rural stereotype. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 23:12
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Just finished bingeing it over the weekend. I must say I enjoy the show, though I also think it looks relatively cheap and tacky and far more clichéd than the books are. First episode is an oddly bad indicator of the show's overall quality. That battlefield scene seemed like it involved like 20 people, should've just nixed it and focus the budget on the Nilfgaardians breaching Cintra. Cavill looks like he can't even twist his neck in the full Witcher getup, which defeats the idea of a Witcher wearing light armor so he can move more easily. Looks pretty awful in full daylight or whatever JJ Abrams lensflare floodlights they blast at him in Stregobor's tower, too. In fact, overall I feel the costumes look kind of wretched. There's no unified ideas or motifs, it's like it's been scavenged together from other fantasy shows. Every king or queen's crown looks like it wasn't made to fit them. The Nilfgaard scrote armor is by far the worst idea. Having said that, I feel like Geralt's armor starts looking better later on? I haven't looked closely enough to tell if they changed it, or it's just better lighting. Also, I don't know if I'm just spoiled by other shows, but a lot of the on-location stuff feels weirdly Asylum-quality too. The monsters are kind of hit and miss. Torque looked pretty good, the ghouls in the last episode looked good, the striga looked fine when it wasn't swinging its stovepipe arms around. Casting little people as fantasy dwarves seems to be working out okay, but the elves couldn't be more boring. In the books they're at least described to have distinctive eyes and teeth, it's hard to imagine humans have such issues with them when they're just humans with pointy ears. Same for the dryads really. Geralt starts out very stiff, and the voice is silly, but it grew on me quick enough, same as Doug Cockle's goofy gruff whisper from the game series did. I think Cavill does well enough with what he's given, but show Geralt's far too dour for my taste. Book Geralt is fun because he's witty, he's actually fairly outgoing, and most of all, he's diplomatic; aside from a bar brawl in the very first story, he mostly doesn't rise to insults or people trying to bait him, but here he's a more stereotypical "grrr leave me alone or I'll kick your rear end" type action hero. Jaskier is probably my favorite part of the show, though I'm slightly sad they didn't call him Dandelion. Also feel the clean-shaven look doesn't really fit, I wouldn't mind if he grows a beard for season 2. I also would've preferred if, like in the books, his and Geralt's friendship had just been a thing that didn't need to be introduced. I feel like changing that adds nothing, their long friendship humanizes Geralt a lot. I hope they write more songs for him. Yennefer - I like the actress, unsure about the choice to show her becoming a sorceress, though I guess if you're doing a show, you can't focus on Geralt all the time. I didn't like that the magical plastic surgery was something that she got done, rather than doing it to herself, though it looked appropriately horrific. It's kind of poo poo how they immediately toss out any hint of subtlety with regards to her wish to have a child though. Also, I found myself getting uncomfortable with how often the actress had her tits out - not for prudishness but because there's been a few actresses recently (Emilia Clarke, Ruth Wilson) who've talked about being pressured to do constant unnecessary nude scenes just for the hell of it and I hope that's not the case here. Speaking of unnecessary, people get killed at the drop of a hat on this show, with very little consequence. Geralt, Duny and Eist seem to slaughter half of Calanthe's guards and party guests if all the bad looking CG blood spurts are any indication, which seems like it should be more of a problem. Love how Eist kind of awkwardly waving a knife in the air is enough for Geralt to decide he's "handy with a blade" too. Ciri - kind of feel the actress is too old and the character, so far, not at all compelling. Of course her story's only just starting, but because I loved Ciri in the books, I guess I'm picky. There's a super weird thing with the subtitles Netflix does, at least in Dutch; the character names get represented by their Polish ones. So, Roach gets subtitled as Plotka, Mousesack as Myszowór. I think maybe they pulled them from the Dutch translation of the books (which I guess exist?), because Jaskier gets subtitled as "Ranonkel" which is apparently exclusively a name used for the Dutch version. The um, the credits? Do you guys have somewhere to be or something? Slow the hell down. And the songs couldn't be more renfair. There was this TV series based on the Shannara books a few years back, and I feel like this doesn't swing much higher when it comes to production value, which is not at all what I was expecting when I heard Netflix was doing this. Still, I like the principal characters and the source material, and they're being relatively faithful to it, so I'm definitely checking out the next season.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:21
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I don't recall Geralt ever being "outgoing" or "diplomatic" in the books. He's a right rear end in a top hat and spends most of his time brooding, which his friends constantly call him out on. Also, Yennefer's story isn't much different than the books. She didn't change herself either. She had "magical surgery" more or less just like was shown, sans the uterus removal. Also because it peeves me, folks need to stop calling Yen's transformation a "glamour", because that's not what it is. Her looks are not an illusion, they are very real. She does sometimes use a scent or enchantment that makes her extremely alluring, and that is closer to a glamour than anything else. But a good example of glamouring is Melisandre from Game of Thrones, when you find out she's really an old hag.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:32
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chaosapiant posted:I don't recall Geralt ever being "outgoing" or "diplomatic" in the books. He's a right rear end in a top hat and spends most of his time brooding, which his friends constantly call him out on. Not with everyone, sure, but he gets on with groups of dwarves, for instance, and is quite happy to go on drunken benders. And in the book version of him being invited to Cintra's court, he's much more diplomatic about telling Calanthe he's not going to kill for her or talking to Foltest about Adda. I feel like the Witcher aspiration to neutrality gets kind of glossed over, though I guess that's also because they're breezing through some of the stories in single episodes.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:44
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:"BRO, CAN YOU EVEN READ POLISH?" That's a trick question, no one can.
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Dec 23, 2019 23:48
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davidspackage posted:Speaking of unnecessary, people get killed at the drop of a hat on this show, with very little consequence. Geralt, Duny and Eist seem to slaughter half of Calanthe's guards and party guests if all the bad looking CG blood spurts are any indication, which seems like it should be more of a problem. Yeah, that bothered me too while I was watching. Calanthe just says stop, plus an inexplicable whirlwind suddenly appears, and everything's fine. No hurt feelings. They probably wanted to pad the episode with a fight that wasn't even as good as the earlier fights in the show. They could have done anything else instead. davidspackage posted:In fact, overall I feel the costumes look kind of wretched. There's no unified ideas or motifs, it's like it's been scavenged together from other fantasy shows. Every king or queen's crown looks like it wasn't made to fit them. Somebody said in this thread that they're overhauling their design/costume department for the next season. Hopefully the quality will increase.
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Dec 24, 2019 00:07
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I find the Cintrian and Temerian armours looks fine. But they need to fire whoever though ballsack armor was a good idea.
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Dec 24, 2019 00:17
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chaosapiant posted:I don't recall Geralt ever being "outgoing" or "diplomatic" in the books. He's a right rear end in a top hat and spends most of his time brooding, which his friends constantly call him out on. Also, Yennefer's story isn't much different than the books. She didn't change herself either. She had "magical surgery" more or less just like was shown, sans the uterus removal. Im pretty sure they dont literally tear out her uterus and sacrifice it to satan so she could 'ascend' or whatever hell that was. I think its explicitly stated that reproductive organs are degraded over time as a side effect of using magic, which is far more mundane than a lot of things in the show they've chosen to rewrite as cheesily dramatic as possible. e. typo
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Dec 24, 2019 00:42
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Vilgefartz posted:Im pretty sure they dont literally tear out her uterus and sacrifice it to satan so she could 'ascend' or whatever hell that was. I think its explicitly stated that reproductive organs are degraded over time as a side effect of using magic, which is far more mundane than a lot of things in the show they've chosen to rewrite as cheesily dramatic as possible. Did you even read the part you quoted? Because I said the same thing regarding her uterus.
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Dec 24, 2019 00:44
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TV IV - The Witcher: Her Uterus Smelled of Lilac and Gooseberries
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Dec 24, 2019 00:48
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chaosapiant posted:Did you even read the part you quoted? Because I said the same thing regarding her uterus. Oops yes my bad, 'sans' meant something different in my brain.
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Dec 24, 2019 00:51
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Speaking of uterus's, how are they going to make vilgefortz look like crazy elder-blood uterus farming maniac when every sorceress has undergone the same procedure ?
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Dec 24, 2019 00:57
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I'm wondering if they'll do a retcon that they only did the hysterectomy to Yennefer and Tissaia lied through omission by never bothering to tell Yennefer the truth. Yen is only aware that he performed the procedure because she was awake during the operation.
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Dec 24, 2019 01:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm wondering if they'll do a retcon that they only did the hysterectomy to Yennefer and Tissaia lied through omission by never bothering to tell Yennefer the truth. Yen is only aware that he performed the procedure because she was awake during the operation. Like yennefer had to get the full procedure because she was super deformed or something?
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Dec 24, 2019 01:09
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Vilgefartz posted:Like yennefer had to get the full procedure because she was super deformed or something? Yeah. It's a bit of an rear end pull but they wrote themselves into that corner. A clubbed foot or a wonky nose is one thing but she had extensive reworking.
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Dec 24, 2019 01:10
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Arcsquad12 posted:Yeah. It's a bit of an rear end pull but they wrote themselves into that corner. A clubbed foot or a wonky nose is one thing but she had extensive reworking. I can totally see that happening. And now they've got that aesthetic wizard available to turn bad and pull off the procedure again for vilgefortz if necessary.
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Dec 24, 2019 01:19
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esperterra posted:The only big changes I can see possibly loving with stuff down the line are changes to Fringilla and Cahir, tbh. The changes to Yen's storyline didn't effect the trajectory of it at all. Minus the timing, which I mentioned before. Books: Having her still be 'learning' magic while calanthe is queen and then going to court for 30 years excludes her from being involved with meddling in Ciri's lineage, which is kinnnnnda important. Arcsquad12 posted:Casting black actors doesn't hurt the show at all. It's odd script and character changes that are potential problems going forward. Absolutely agreed, what they need to fix instead is costuming. The elves (every last one of them) looked atrocious, and the sorceresses, which are described very often as wearing amazing dresses/outfits and jewelry, look like they found something at the local goodwill and just grabbed it out of a bin (especially the student outfits at the lovely torture magic school, literally the definition of frumpy). They didn't even bother to give Yennefer her iconic choker. BOOOOOO chaosapiant posted:What’s the name of those two creepy detective Geralt employs in the saga? I want to say Codhringer and Fenn? It’s been a bit since I read them. I love those two and hope they make it into the show. You got it right (thought it's 'Codringher', not that it matters in the least). chaosapiant posted:She didn't change herself either. She had "magical surgery" more or less just like was shown, sans the uterus removal. ? When did this happen, I don't recall it being that way at all. I think it was always stated that most sorceresses changed themselves over time magically to remove imperfections. Having a magic Queer Eye guy is the dumbest poo poo and I hope it's not canon.
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Dec 24, 2019 02:05
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