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Dr Christmas posted:All this talk of nukes makes me think about how wild it is that Ikkit got several of the coolest and most devastating tools in the game with no drawbacks to balance them out. Tehenhauin has to work for a hundred turns to get something worse than what Ikkit has from turn one. all according to the great plan
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Dec 25, 2019 21:31
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Dr Christmas posted:All this talk of nukes makes me think about how wild it is that Ikkit got several of the coolest and most devastating tools in the game with no drawbacks to balance them out. Tehenhauin has to work for a hundred turns to get something worse than what Ikkit has from turn one. This is a common thought process amongst gamers and I do not support it. Ikkit is good and fun. Imposing drawbacks on things that are good and fun isn't good and fun its bad and foolish. A more real way of framing it is 'why isn't Tehenhauin as good as fun as Ikkit'
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Dec 25, 2019 22:02
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Motherfucker posted:This is a common thought process amongst gamers and I do not support it. Ikkit is good and fun. Imposing drawbacks on things that are good and fun isn't good and fun its bad and foolish. A more real way of framing it is 'why isn't Tehenhauin as good as fun as Ikkit' Tehenhauin is good and fun too, just for different reasons.
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Dec 25, 2019 22:05
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Having characters of varying strength and difficulty is good. Tehenhuain just needs a less annoying sacrifice mechanic (I remember that was going to be fixed in this patch, did it actually)?
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Dec 25, 2019 22:12
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Nobody is complaining about the power level between the two, it's the difference in effort for the two campaigns that is glaring
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Dec 25, 2019 22:13
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Motherfucker posted:This is a common thought process amongst gamers and I do not support it. Ikkit is good and fun. Imposing drawbacks on things that are good and fun isn't good and fun its bad and foolish. A more real way of framing it is 'why isn't Tehenhauin as good as fun as Ikkit' T is funner than Ikit, he just got less effort
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Dec 25, 2019 22:23
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It is beautiful.
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Dec 25, 2019 22:24
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Theswarms posted:Having characters of varying strength and difficulty is good. You now get a fairly decent chunk of sacrifices as post-battle loot regardless of what option you pick, overall seems like you get them significantly easier, but yeah, the issue seems to be that Tehenhuain really doesn't get anything super interesting, his RoRs are just locked behind the sacrifice mechanics rather than Lord level (which I suppose COULD make some of them available faster than other Lizards), but seeing how Ikit gets some crazy-broken campaign only RoRs through his workshop AND that the nukes he start with are significantly more impressive than the final Sotek thing, there's absolutely an imbalance in effort there.
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Dec 25, 2019 22:40
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Motherfucker posted:This is a common thought process amongst gamers and I do not support it. Ikkit is good and fun. Imposing drawbacks on things that are good and fun isn't good and fun its bad and foolish. A more real way of framing it is 'why isn't Tehenhauin as good as fun as Ikkit' Tehenhauin is one of the funnest campaigns I ever played of TWW2, and I don't even enjoy playing Lizardmen most of the time. Having to run from point A to point B desperately putting out fires scraping together everything I could felt really cool and satisfying when it all worked out. That said, the fun I had from his campaign wasn't from his mechanics - which are extremely boring and lackluster - but from his start position and neighboring enemies. Ikit has Tehenhauin beat super hard on fun mechanics, though I honestly think Tenny's campaign start is more engaging.
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Dec 25, 2019 23:11
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ikit is boring because he has such strengths due to skryre weaponry being the best. also starting in skavenblight is ludicrous. underdogs are always more fun. case in point: tehenhauin, arkhan, lokhir and khatep have the best campaigns
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Dec 25, 2019 23:25
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ZoninSilver posted:his RoRs are just locked behind the sacrifice mechanics rather than Lord level (which I suppose COULD make some of them available faster than other Lizards) I've found that you typically get the first couple faster (saurus spears and red crested skinks), but the others come in later. At least now that Hunter and the Beast exists there are a couple level gated RoRs for him.
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Dec 25, 2019 23:34
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Wild Horses posted:ikit is boring because he has such strengths due to skryre weaponry being the best. yeah the fun floor for ikit is really high but the ceiling is low. you top off the enjoyability of the campaign as you absolutely cannot lose a battle without trying
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Dec 25, 2019 23:35
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An underdog with a lot of good fights is fun and good. One that you just babysit a handful of regions due to corruption, public order, and rebellions get’s old fast. Sometimes insane murder steamrolling is cathartic.
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Dec 25, 2019 23:36
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The trouble with difficult battles is that the AI cheats mean that rough victories don't feel well earned and end up costing you anyways because the AI always has another army ready to ruin your day. You have to be perfect as often as possible or you'll lose your stack.
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Dec 25, 2019 23:50
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Motherfucker posted:This is a common thought process amongst gamers and I do not support it. Ikkit is good and fun. Imposing drawbacks on things that are good and fun isn't good and fun its bad and foolish. A more real way of framing it is 'why isn't Tehenhauin as good as fun as Ikkit' I dunno, Markus has drawbacks and the game gates his good units but his campaign manages to be better and more interesting for it. Tehenhuain's mechanics are unfortunately just pretty lame.
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Dec 26, 2019 00:11
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Kalessin ofSelidor posted:An underdog with a lot of good fights is fun and good. One that you just babysit a handful of regions due to corruption, public order, and rebellions get’s old fast. Sometimes insane murder steamrolling is cathartic. I like being in the red and actively waiting for rebellions to get some cash, levels and stability again. Staying at 4 provinces or so and aggressively expanding a war chest with plunder and sacking is a pro strat for vulnerable starts
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Dec 26, 2019 00:14
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Vargs posted:I dunno, Markus has drawbacks and the game gates his good units but his campaign manages to be better and more interesting for it. Tehenhuain's mechanics are unfortunately just pretty lame. Drawbacks are fine as long as there's an appropriately fun benefit for being hamstrung. Skarsnik and Belegar are a good comparison for me here. Skarsnik is hamstrung by not having access to half the goddamn roster of his faction, but in return he gets to play an entirely unique game with ultra-powerful nuclear gobbos so it ends up hella fun. He's part of the race for Eight Peaks, but trying to rush Eight Peaks is just one way to play his campaign. Meanwhile, Belegar is hamstrung by having titanic upkeep costs on an already relatively expensive faction, and gets basically nothing unique or cool to compensate besides the Ghost Dads, who are cool and good but not really that interesting or fun to use since they're just "dwarf hero, but ethereal". The shittiness of Belegar's penalty means that rushing for Eight Peaks feels less like a goal you're shooting for in the long term and more something to be done ASAP so you can shake off the terrible, crushing upkeep penalty that is ruining your ability to have fun and start playing the actual game. Basically, for Skarsnik Eight Peaks feels like an end goal you build up to in your own unique way, whereas for Belegar Eight Peaks feels like something you have to rush your rear end off to get ASAP just to have an enjoyable campaign at all. One of these is good and fun to me, and the other one is poo poo and bad.
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Dec 26, 2019 00:28
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Wondering how to beat Lizardmen since the AI really likes the strategy of getting a lot of ripperdactyls which fucks up my Vampire Coast gun line really bad.
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Dec 26, 2019 00:33
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SunAndSpring posted:Wondering how to beat Lizardmen since the AI really likes the strategy of getting a lot of ripperdactyls which fucks up my Vampire Coast gun line really bad. kite with deck gunners? or let them land in your gunners and welcome them with mornghuls
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Dec 26, 2019 00:52
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I decided that starting in Aghol territory as Kholek would be nice. It's certainly an easy way to level up and, therefore, get a Dragon Ogre Shaggoth stack going ASAP. The downside is that literally everyone runs away when they see the big bastard coming, so getting enough field battles to unlock Archaeon is a pain in the thunder-dick.
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Dec 26, 2019 01:20
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Decrepus posted:I was playing Lokhir and sailed up and sacked Lothern. I wanted to just keep on truckin but I ended up occupying it because otherwise I had zero replenishment. Do I need to cram the arks with those witchelf heroes to get enough replenishment or something after a bad fight? Except for horde factions and maybe Norsca, you usually cannot get decent replenishment when just sacking. Encampment stance or HP bonus after sacking just doesn't cut it. Bonuses for being in friendly territory is too strong. Sack then occupy then abandon does usually bring better benefits though. You can sell of any remaining structures. You get some income in the time between recapture/rebels. The town loses an additional two levels (one when you occupy, another when it get's retaken), which might be interesting if you just want hurt your opposing faction.
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Dec 26, 2019 02:09
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Luckys campaign with Sknitch is actually easier than the stock game which is surprising. You can absolutely crush the first few enemy stacks with ambushes in auroresolve. They also get this hilarious ability where they get massive MA and Ld bonuses but warp lighting keeps crashing down around them.
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Dec 26, 2019 02:10
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A friend of mine gifted this to me for christmas. I really have never been a fan of Warhammer Fantasy until I discovered there were Aztec Lizardpeople and now I can't put this game down!
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Dec 26, 2019 04:58
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Just started a game as Lokhir for the first time since the potion of speed update and holy poo poo is he an incredibly powerful start virtually from the very beginning. I always liked using black arks previously, more as deterrents to block certain corridors but also for recruitment, but now they are legitimately dangerous. And Lokhir very quickly has TONS of them to poo poo out all over the world, sacking every coastal city he can find. I completely ignore going inland and instead just build up my coastal empire. Easily the biggest economy and most powerful military.
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Dec 26, 2019 06:28
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After the Empire doom-rolled me in ME with 16 stacks, I decided to try Ikkit out for the first time. And boy, being able to tie up an enemy with a blob of skaven slaves and then nuke it all is amazingly fun.
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Dec 26, 2019 12:54
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Holy poo poo the black ark admiral changes are nice. Being able to get some of those blue line and red line buffs look so nice. Before the fun factor for alot of DE (esp Lokhir) campaigns would drop waaaay off once the Chaos puppet factions started up. Alot of times the ai couldn’t finish off one of the Chaos stacks to stop the endless respawns. So then literally you could wipe out the ones that spawn off in the oceans and by the time you replenish and restock armies they spawn back in. And I swear anytime I didn’t leave a couple stacks those Chaos assholes would end up loving up some really valuable port cities. Thinking now get a leveled admiral with the lightning strikey (mist thing?) skill to spawn camp instead of tying up 2-3 armies/fleets.
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Dec 26, 2019 18:53
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Anyone got some tips to get an Eshin campaign properly going? Specifically with the economy? My last Skaven campaign was Skrye, which went fine because of the glorious under-empire. But after the Amethyst patch nerfed the food income from the under-empire to the point where investing in it seems like a net loss, I'm honestly not sure how CA intends Skaven should be played. Other then "be miserable and starving constantly" (which is admittedly is very Skaven).
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Dec 26, 2019 20:23
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aggressively expand and upgrade with food when you capture province capitals. sack steal and win battles to replenish food. raid if you need to. prioritize food producing buildings, get at least two it's pretty easy to balance food as long as you constantly win battles.
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Dec 26, 2019 20:38
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Raygereio posted:Anyone got some tips to get an Eshin campaign properly going? Specifically with the economy? It's still worth it if you play a slow and steady type of campaign (I recently posted a lot of  about it) as every undercity will provide you with a combination of food and/or money. If you want to burn through as fast as possible constantly attacking and raiding can help keep your food up. No matter what it's at least worth it to beeline for undercities under cash cow cities like Lothern, Mount Gunbad, Naggarond, Altdorf, etc. At a minimum, with a cash investment each undercity can get you +3 food which is very nice.
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Dec 26, 2019 20:49
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Raygereio posted:Anyone got some tips to get an Eshin campaign properly going? Specifically with the economy? drat Dirty Ape posted:It's still worth it if you play a slow and steady type of campaign (I recently posted a lot of Yeah I'd never played Skaven before a Skyre campaign last week, and I'm drowning in more food than I could possibly use. Under empire works great!
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Dec 26, 2019 20:54
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Wild Horses posted:it's pretty easy to balance food as long as you constantly win battles.
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Dec 26, 2019 21:11
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Raygereio posted:I guess that's kind of my problem. I've had two attempts at Eshin so far and both times I start out fine. But I can't tech up up to weapon teams and artillery fast enough due to lack of food and Eshin's penalty for non-Eshin units. I'm not good enough of a Skaven player to handle a full stack of saurus without some serious dakka and once I loose my only army, it's downward spiral time. Bring a zillion gutter runners and/or gutter runner slingers and skirmish the enemy to death. Play on slowmo if you need to, but it's honestly even more effective than weapon team spam.
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Dec 26, 2019 21:16
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Eshin gutter runners are armor piercing, slowness inducing, skirmishing, they can fight in melee and at range, you can literally bring an entire stack of them and thats a drat good stack. Without all of Ikkit's upkeep and workshop stuff focusing guns is a wasted effort anyway a skrye stack could be supporting two whole armies of cheap rear end gutter ninjas
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Dec 26, 2019 21:22
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I am a broken person so I'm trying to figure out Noctilus' campaign now. I assume running straight towards the high elves with an army comprised mostly of deckhand mobs is a bad idea, because I keep getting my rear end kicked. But it also seems like it's gonna take a long-rear end time to get anything higher tier off the ground. Should I just gently caress around until I've got a better army or is there an easier target than the high elf port city it keeps telling me to go after?
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Dec 26, 2019 21:27
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Rip_Van_Winkle posted:I am a broken person so I'm trying to figure out Noctilus' campaign now. I assume running straight towards the high elves with an army comprised mostly of deckhand mobs is a bad idea, because I keep getting my rear end kicked. But it also seems like it's gonna take a long-rear end time to get anything higher tier off the ground. Should I just gently caress around until I've got a better army or is there an easier target than the high elf port city it keeps telling me to go after? You can hit and run the high elves early for some cash injections but don't waste your unlife on their walled cities or battling their actual armies or whatever, that said you can totally take a dive as noctilus since the galleons graveyard is basically unassailable tilll late game and even than, Focus on noctilus' ship, start with the anchor off the bat, get your handgunners, get the replesishment building that'll net you your tasty necrofex's. Make sure to send a vampire to establish a picaroons in Lothern too for that sweet 2k income
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Dec 26, 2019 21:32
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Lots of mortars are essential against helves but its also just a tough match up til later
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Dec 26, 2019 21:35
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As a pirate your job is to bully the loving poo poo out of people not go all in on them. Elves make great pocket change dispensers and coving all their ports is a great idea
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Dec 26, 2019 21:41
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Raygereio posted:Anyone got some tips to get an Eshin campaign properly going? Specifically with the economy? You need to run undercities balanced instead of them being a win button. Stealing money from places like Altdorf and Lothern and so on will more than pay for the lovely secondary undercities that make a bit of food, but for money. Also being in low food is really not that bad. Spawning a T3 or even T5 city before turn 10 easily makes up for low public order and growth.
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Dec 26, 2019 21:41
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Is it normal for a Mortal Empires Skrolk campaign to take around 40 turns to consolidate the starting 4-city province? Because between wiping out Lokhir and Teclis and a shaky Peace Treaty with Kroq Gar, that's what it took. It was a whole lot of back-and-forth with Lokhir, too, since he's actually good at combat. At least Teclis and his mage buddy were polite enough to go down quickly in melee. Granted I ignored the empty cities to the east/west and immediately made for the Altar of the Horned Rat. By the time I'd gotten there, Lokhir had taken it from clan Fester, so I swooped in before anyone could recover and took it for myself, managing to barely beat back Lohkir himself with a couple of ambushes and sheer luck. I think I made my mistake here when I built the plague monk building instead of the catapult building. By the time I realized what I'd done it was too late, I hadn't saved in a while, and I was not about to redo those battles, so plague monks became my front line. Long story short: the elves are dead, my province is stabilizing, I now have catapults, and the only options at the moment are either a) starting a war with the lizardmen, which I am absolutely not ready for, or b) set sail and find softer targets, preferably someone the lizards hate to try and stave off the inevitable hellwar with them. Suggestions for current and future Skrolk ME games are welcome.
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Dec 26, 2019 21:43
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Rip_Van_Winkle posted:I am a broken person so I'm trying to figure out Noctilus' campaign now. I assume running straight towards the high elves with an army comprised mostly of deckhand mobs is a bad idea, because I keep getting my rear end kicked. But it also seems like it's gonna take a long-rear end time to get anything higher tier off the ground. Should I just gently caress around until I've got a better army or is there an easier target than the high elf port city it keeps telling me to go after? Take the initial city for the mission rewards and then gently caress off. It rebels? Tyrion comes for it? Who cares?
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Dec 26, 2019 21:46
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