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"Instructing people on systems which you yourself have little to no training" definitely strikes a nerve. Thankfully nothing I taught was ever critical for safety of flight, but it's definitely reminding me of trying to run E-2D sims without having any formal training and only a handful of flights in one.
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Dec 24, 2019 14:05
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lightpole posted:Wait until you sail 1st and deal with all the poo poo the company does to push for that extra dollar while you struggle to get any maintenance done cause your port stays are 6-10 hours since you're always behind schedule because the company doesnt realize you're running around in a 40 year old ship with the wrong prop. They will yank humans off ships the second they get regulatory approval, whether or not the system actually works. I didn't mean any of that as praise for shipping companies, just a comment that they can build whatever other cheesy cheap poo poo they want because the cheapest way to make the boat move has so many moving parts and such a tendency to rattle itself apart every few days that it wouldn't actually get anywhere without people so you might as well have them shoving chewing gum patches on your eggshell thin mild steel seawater pipes while they're there gently caress scrubbers dude the 0.5% fuel so far is good poo poo compared to yet another janky sw system
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Dec 24, 2019 14:40
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Most carriers haven’t gone with scrubbers anyway, the cost benefits don’t make sense and the technology is too new. Also lol if you think discharge of scrubber waters is going to be a thing much longer, especially in the US. Clean Water Act §401 is a hell of a thing.
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Dec 24, 2019 16:12
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Wingnut Ninja posted:"Instructing people on systems which you yourself have little to no training" definitely strikes a nerve. Thankfully nothing I taught was ever critical for safety of flight, but it's definitely reminding me of trying to run E-2D sims without having any formal training and only a handful of flights in one. BC3, but almost everywhere. Maybe half of the units using it actually train their people on how to use it. Most knowledge is passed on real time during controlled events.
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Dec 24, 2019 18:54
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Mr. Nice! posted:SPACE HOMOS is a former STG, but both of us got out of the navy closer to 2010 than today. oh, dang, so anything newer then acb-11? 9? they probably wouldn't know much about. oh well maffew buildings posted:So for shore dug the first thing you need to do is deny your c way window get the gently caress out and go to college, hth i have the brain parasites and am going to shore duty because health insurance is really, really expensive for a family of four are there shore duty locations in japan that arent white sands, okinawa for STGs? really dont want to go there, maybe someplace quiet like misawa or atsugi? how bad is it if i try to get a location/job outside my rate for evals?
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Dec 24, 2019 19:58
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FrozenVent posted:Last shipping company I worked for, the CEO showed up this video and told us to prepare for this to happen ANY DAY NOW. Take this, but now imagine it running on a 15 inch laptop with only a keyboard nub for a mouse, and it's a constant stream of notification messages about random things all over the world, with an occasional critical message that's quickly pushed off the screen by the less important ones. It's being run from an office with an open floorplan, positioned between sales and marketing.
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Dec 24, 2019 19:59
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Take this, but now imagine it running on a 15 inch laptop with only a keyboard nub for a mouse, and it's a constant stream of notification messages about random things all over the world, with an occasional critical message that's quickly pushed off the screen by the less important ones. It's being run from an office with an open floorplan, positioned between sales and marketing. Yeah that’s pretty much my experience of shipping operations. Although I eventually got a second monitor once I’d made my way high enough the seniority list.
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Dec 24, 2019 20:37
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An oldie but a goodie. Written by an acquaintance of mine from Prowler-land. He is currently a Growler CO https://link.medium.com/cm8BCoKyK2
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Dec 27, 2019 04:40
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vulturesrow posted:An oldie but a goodie. Written by an acquaintance of mine from Prowler-land. He is currently a Growler CO Not every skipper who writes stuff has the virtues they preach, but I can confirm this one does.
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Dec 27, 2019 18:50
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Red Crown posted:Not every skipper who writes stuff has the virtues they preach, but I can confirm this one does. Agreed.
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Dec 28, 2019 06:35
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Thanks for sharing the article; was a good read for sure. Gotta admit though I’m still 100% gonna ask for my mil discount with the surgeon I’m looking into cause ya know $$$ 
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Dec 28, 2019 23:10
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A lot of non sea people on Twitter talking about how touchscreens have no place at sea and I'm just trying to imagine wiring up a relay logic and individual wires mimic board for a 6 thruster DP system or something
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Dec 29, 2019 18:50
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Digital control does not mean touchscreens. Touchscreens are just the dumbest newest thing in digital control
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Dec 29, 2019 19:02
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The digital controls have mechanical backups. Right? Right??
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Dec 29, 2019 19:52
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M_Gargantua posted:Digital control does not mean touchscreens. Touchscreens are just the dumbest newest thing in digital control Right but you still don't need like hundreds of buttons and lights wired up to your digital controls when a few menus and a trackball alongside specialist physical controls would do it all with way less space and parts. I guess my issue is with ppl attacking the idea of screens altogether touch or otherwise more than just being like a touchscreen fan
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Dec 30, 2019 01:19
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ded posted:The digital controls have mechanical backups. Not in my area but also I rarely have issue with our touchscreens. Of course we have multiple redundant consoles and such, I wouldnt be super cool with propulsion using only touchscreens but then again I'm also an old man at this point and don't actually know how the plants are controlled because lol not my area.
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Dec 30, 2019 01:28
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 Touchscreens bad (sometimes).
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Dec 30, 2019 02:34
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Godholio posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMHAZwR-BdQ
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Dec 30, 2019 02:39
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Day One of mobilization. Traveling sucks.
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Dec 30, 2019 02:54
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LingcodKilla posted:Day One of mobilization. My rotator out in the spring had everyone sleeping in two AMC terminals and then a hotel for a week because the plane broke. My rotator back last week had everyone show up to Ramstein for three days straight to find out that the plane was 1) delayed 2) on fire and 3) finally replaced. I will probably not be reimbursed for lodging because I didn't take the daily bus to a Comfort Inn in Frankfurt's industrial sector every day. Military travel REALLY sucks.
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Dec 30, 2019 03:07
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ded posted:The digital controls have mechanical backups. Depends on what the customer wants. Power plant I worked in when I got out of school was almost completely digital. Wartsila had the digital system separated into three parts, the individual engine computers, the operator mimic and the power plant mimic. There was digital redundancy but my ability to bypass the digital side completely was extremely limited in the best case scenario. The system is also plugged into Wartsila in Vaasa. They would call us in the middle of the night and let us know they had a patch or upgrade or whatever and just send it. Other companies are moving in on remote monitoring and operation, Solar Turbines does this and MAN as well. The more you remove an onsite operator from the loop, the more expensive those mechanical redundancies are and the less need for them. Current standards on ships are set by class, ABS or Lloyd's, and flag, US Coast Guard for the US along with international standards, IMO. They set the requirements for how much can be automated. The second a shipping company can save a penny and get away with it, assume they will.
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Dec 30, 2019 04:48
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Also for some stuff like AC drives it's digital all the way down, the idea of like mechanically pressing a button to switch the transistors is nonsense
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Dec 30, 2019 05:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVIGhYMwRgs
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Dec 30, 2019 05:30
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Ya'll seem to seriously be confusing some of the benefits of certain analog controls, digital control based on analog inputs, and fully digital control and its causing a vein in my head to pulse.
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Dec 30, 2019 05:36
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After getting out of the Navy, I got a job repairing slot machines and the amount of time I spent futzing around with touchscreens has convinced me they shouldn't ever be used for critical controls. If you press a button, it's a really bad problem when a droplet of water or scratch on the screen causes your input to shift by a few inches to another part of the screen.
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Dec 30, 2019 06:36
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M_Gargantua posted:Ya'll seem to seriously be confusing some of the benefits of certain analog controls, digital control based on analog inputs, and fully digital control and its causing a vein in my head to pulse. This guy gets it. Because he did the same poo poo I did. For subs things having 2-3 backups is the norm. Esp when there is electricity/lack of electricity involved. I sort of hope that surface ships have at least the same for critical components such as steering and speed.
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Dec 30, 2019 08:18
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ded posted:This guy gets it. Because he did the same poo poo I did. Civilian requirements are all set by class and flag but usually multiple is the norm. Shoreside they are cutting out the operator at a faster rate and the new stuff is approaching full digital. Ugh, I'm starting to hate being in port, it just means I dont get to sleep or go ashore.
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Dec 30, 2019 08:35
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I was under the assumption that the navy still used a horn from the bridge to the engine room where they had people shoveling more or less coal depending on how much fast they want to go.
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Dec 30, 2019 08:51
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Ship I was on no poo poo had voice pipes as a backup to the backup I guess, no idea what they connected or if they worked but they existed.
orange juche fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Dec 30, 2019 |
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Dec 30, 2019 11:01
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Day Two. No didn’t really need my luggage I suppose. Or sleep. drat Norfolk is unseasonal warm this year. I’ll be in town for a few weeks if anyone is around.
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Dec 30, 2019 12:02
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ded posted:This guy gets it. Because he did the same poo poo I did. The problem with the backups for the backups is user interface design. Bad user interface design doesn't make it known what backup is in use and how it's different and that leads to the exact situation that started this topic of conversation. I've been complaining about UI design on every garbage contractor built system I've ever used. They let engineers build the UI instead of actual UI designers because the contract doesn't specify anything about how it looks.
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Dec 30, 2019 12:51
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A Bad Poster posted:I was under the assumption that the navy still used a horn from the bridge to the engine room where they had people shoveling more or less coal depending on how much fast they want to go. orange juche posted:Ship I was on no poo poo had voice pipes as a backup to the backup I guess, no idea what they connected or if they worked but they existed. Picture is not my actual first ship, but this is an identical helm: 
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Dec 30, 2019 13:35
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A Bad Poster posted:I was under the assumption that the navy still used a horn from the bridge to the engine room where they had people shoveling more or less coal depending on how much fast they want to go. The voice pipes are still there and the coalier is still there, and he still goes through the motions, but there's no actual coal or burner to toss it into. After a few engine room incidents, however, they made it mandatory to stand the watch on all Navy ships in all conditions of readiness.
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Dec 30, 2019 14:59
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LingcodKilla posted:Day Two. i wont be back in town from leave until jan 6 but ill pm you when i do get back home, im down for some drinks and food
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Dec 30, 2019 21:52
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boy are my arms tired posted:i wont be back in town from leave until jan 6 but ill pm you when i do get back home, im down for some drinks and food Sounds good. We lost power in the ECRC building and Wednesday is stand down. Smooshing 5 days worth of training into 4. Woo.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:55
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Laranzu posted:The problem with the backups for the backups is user interface design. Bad user interface design doesn't make it known what backup is in use and how it's different and that leads to the exact situation that started this topic of conversation. Manual mechanical backups. Not backups tied into an interface that can be unusable in a loss of power.
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Dec 30, 2019 23:12
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Theres always local control of the rudder, but that tends to be slow and less responsive. Mechanical systems are likely to fail during battle damage, so local control needs to be ready to be taken on a ship at a moment's notice. But it's really warm and sleepy in Aft Steering...
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Dec 31, 2019 05:49
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piL posted:Theres always local control of the rudder, but that tends to be slow and less responsive. Mechanical systems are likely to fail during battle damage, so local control needs to be ready to be taken on a ship at a moment's notice. But it's really warm and sleepy in Aft Steering... Sounds like a job for an air conditioner and a coffee machine.
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Dec 31, 2019 09:56
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Mechanical local control of the rudder is also only really for getting it amidships because you’re hand cranking a monstrous hydraulic system. Something like 30 cranks per degree, iirc.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:46
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LingcodKilla posted:Day Two. It's been weird, I left for warmer parts for Christmas and I come back and it's hotter than back home. There's a sick bouldering gym in Norfolk (latitude) and Mt. Trashmore park in VA beach is pretty neat, but that's about the extent of things to do in the winter without driving more than 30 minutes I've found here.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:46
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