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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:My favorite part is I don't think it's gonna stop and people will increasingly be demanding that you treat fandom identity like religious identity So what are the precepts of Disney crap that will form the basis of this kind of religious outlook? IMO it's not great. Highly contradictory even. And not in the trivial way that the bible has logical inconsistencies, or how different books contradict each other on prescriptive guidelines or moral premises. Disney crap tends to have a very liberal outlook where the morally righteous have directly opposed agendas, and the right thing to do ends up being reduced to a difference of opinion.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:50
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Probably Magic posted:Whether you like TLJ is already decided along political lines despite it just being mediocre neither-here-nor-there Star Wars, we're absolutely already there. The chuds who hate TLJ for dumb, bigoted reasons suck majorly, but the hardcore TLJ fans who shut down any legitimate issues people have with the movie are also pretty insufferable.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:53
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I thought it was poorly edited and all the good stuff was knockoff KOTOR II even if it had its moments
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Dec 30, 2019 21:57
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Im not sure any values will form the basis of it. I think it's more like using the language of religious identity to reify a fandom identity as a solid community. So I don't think it will literally be a religion but serve as that sort of metaphysical community for secular liberals. I'm not smart though, just bitter.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:57
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Two years ago I had a friend completely ruin my new years party by having a big time meltdown on another friend about respecting nu star wars and It might have stuck in my brain too hard.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:01
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Yeah I guess the most likely outcome is cishetero white liberals substitutingreligion and race for their fandoms, until they start claiming that Star Wars should be respected in the same way you have to respect black or trans people. Eventually a fatwah will be declared on everyone who says Maclunkey. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 22:09 on Dec 30, 2019 |
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Dec 30, 2019 22:05
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The problem with LTJ is it introduces no new genres the way the prequels did, like, Attack of the Clones sucked but at least is a detective story, while TLJ does the same thing TFA does where, "It's like the original... but larger scale!" The Luke stuff and salt planet were good, but Planet Monaco was a more heavy-handed Cloud City and watching the film attempt to wrangle with social justice in a universe with droids just felt incredibly bad. It's okay for alien societies to be alien, they don't have to be relateable for us to be invested in them. But everyone I know likes/dislikes it along party lines because consumerism is an identity now. It sucks so loving much.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Except superhero stuff doesn't get impacted by a communal oral tradition in the same way that mythology was. Fanfiction doesn't have cultural penetration. Yeah you're right, it was a dumb comparison to make.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:11
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Probably Magic posted:The problem with LTJ is it introduces no new genres the way the prequels did, like, Attack of the Clones sucked but at least is a detective story, while TLJ does the same thing TFA does where, "It's like the original... but larger scale!" The Luke stuff and salt planet were good, but Planet Monaco was a more heavy-handed Cloud City and watching the film attempt to wrangle with social justice in a universe with droids just felt incredibly bad. It's okay for alien societies to be alien, they don't have to be relateable for us to be invested in them. But everyone I know likes/dislikes it along party lines because consumerism is an identity now. It sucks so loving much. LTJ isn't really on a bigger scale than Empire Strikes Back though, it only seems that way because it has a completely vestigial third plotline. ESB has an A plot and a B plot. In the A plot you have a big chase story where Han and the gang are trying to evade the empire after the capture of the base on Hoth. In the B plot you have Luke meeting Yoda to learn more about the Force and receive some basic Jedi training. Eventually Luke gives up on his training to save his friends, which is where the plots intersect. LTJ has an A,B, and C plot. The A plot is another chase sequence, but with the entire #Resistance, the B plot is Rey finding Luke to try and learn more about the Force only to be told it's a farce, and the C plot is Finn and Rose trying to figure out a way to disable the hyperspace tracker - only they fail and almost get everyone killed. Eventually Rey leaves Luke because she has a hunch that Kylo can be saved, and all the plots intersect because they have to. Nobody learns anything or goes through a character arc except Luke, who is the only one that actually gives up on the failures of the past to do a big self-sacrifice. All the surviving characters are in the same place they started except worse, and everything is reset to 0.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:30
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Give me Thor fighting Arjuna in the next Thor movie you cowards. Or getting scammed by Odysseus.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:32
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The Last Jedi's conceit that it is somehow deconstructing Star Wars comes off as obnoxiously pretentious and unearned when the film still ends with the same stale empire-vs-rebellion dynamic. The revelation that war profiteers exist in the Star Wars universe felt particularly obnoxious given how the new trilogy so scrupulously avoids even the mildest interest in world building. It's difficult for me to suddenly start caring about how people in the world of Star Wars arm themselves when the movies themselves clearly don't give a poo poo outside that one superfluous scene.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:48
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If you listen to the big time TLJ posters it's so the simple peasant folk can digest the "theme" of "capitalism bad". Caring about the plotting at all makes you "too literal" since big budget movies are for laughing and clapping while absorbing political themes with the depth of a sassy brand tweet.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:54
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Its frustrating how they clearly don't want to slow down the movie with even perfunctory worldbuilding but also insist on making everything about bigger and more implausible superweapons instead of just making it about the characters
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Dec 30, 2019 23:10
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:If you listen to the big time TLJ posters it's so the simple peasant folk can digest the "theme" of "capitalism bad". Caring about the plotting at all makes you "too literal" since big budget movies are for laughing and clapping while absorbing political themes with the depth of a sassy brand tweet. Rian Johnson is still a liberal though, so it's not so much "capitalism bad" as a reductive view that "war only benefits the bad capitalists." It even implies a moral equivalency between the First Order and the Resistance, but can only do so because the political context of the Star Wars galaxy is a total void. In the Force Awakens the First Order has totally decapitated the New Republic, and even though the Resistance destroys Starkiller base by TLJ "The First Order reigns," meaning the galaxy is ruled by the First Order and the only other political entities are the Resistance and neutral governments that haven't been taken over by the First Order yet. If the First Order has already taken over the New Republic, then they've got enough industrial capacity to produce their own stuff. All of their weapons would be provided on contract from MIC corporations. They wouldn't need weapons dealers and smugglers like the Resistance does, and TNO would want to be killing all of those people on Canto Bight for collaborating with the Resistance. Of course the biggest problem with the C plot isn't just that it doesn't make sense in context, it's also thematically meaningless. War profiteers partying on Canto Bight doesn't affect the outcome of the story at all. Ok, movie, war profiteers are bad. I get that. But are you going anywhere with this? "No but, it makes ya think doesn't it?" 
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Dec 30, 2019 23:17
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Come to think of it, if the First Order already controls the galaxy then why does the Emperor want to send 1000 star destroyers with death star lasers to blow up a thousand planets? Doesn't he control them already?
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Dec 30, 2019 23:20
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It’s raising “was profiteering bad” awareness
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Dec 30, 2019 23:22
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I hate jj abrams and all he is involved with
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Dec 30, 2019 23:24
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I'm re reading the old Thrawn novels rn and while they're cheesy as poo poo the politics of both Rebellion and Empire struggling for legitimacy work a whole lot better
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Dec 30, 2019 23:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Come to think of it, if the First Order already controls the galaxy then why does the Emperor want to send 1000 star destroyers with death star lasers to blow up a thousand planets? Doesn't he control them already? I was wondering this too
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Dec 30, 2019 23:34
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There’s this weird problem of scale that the ST has where the first order is on the periphery of the new republic and not considered a huge problem but also has a death star the size of a planet and a huge military I think it’d have been better if they were just one of like a dozen warlord states and leia left the new republic to fight them because they brainwashed her son
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Dec 30, 2019 23:58
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The Unknown Regions are supposed to be an uncharted place where you can hide all sorts of stuff, so I can buy that the First Order was building up to the point they could do a galactic 9/11. What I don't buy is that the New Republic would immediately roll over, show its belly, and piss itself just because some core worlds got blown up. It completely contradicts the underlying premise of the original trilogy and actually existing history which is that terror weapons don't work and are counter productive.
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Dec 31, 2019 00:02
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imo the only good thing about the new star wars flick was the name “babu frick” stuck in my head like a mantra since seeing the movie, which was godawful ofc
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Dec 31, 2019 00:16
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Unknown Regions are supposed to be an uncharted place where you can hide all sorts of stuff, so I can buy that the First Order was building up to the point they could do a galactic 9/11. What I don't buy is that the New Republic would immediately roll over, show its belly, and piss itself just because some core worlds got blown up. It completely contradicts the underlying premise of the original trilogy and actually existing history which is that terror weapons don't work and are counter productive. all the republic worlds were in the same star system, including the entire fleet. you could see all the planets in the sky getting blowed up, they looked closer than mars. do not tell jj abrams how space works, he does not want to hear it
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Dec 31, 2019 00:22
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the lack of worldbuilding and just basic coherency of tfa was bad enough, but i liked the characters okay, the actors themselves did great jobs. and there was potential to at least succeed on the character based drama alone. then they hosed that up too. every part of the trilogy failed by the end of the last movie
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Dec 31, 2019 00:24
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 bigly lol at all the people who thought Uncut Gems was going to be some kind of feel-good Grown-Ups type movie
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Dec 31, 2019 00:32
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https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1211331851358494720?s=20
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Dec 31, 2019 00:42
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:In fact if you aren't doing a leftist reading of the modern day mythical figures (super heros) you are abandoning the culture to reactionary forces in a counter productive display of elitism. The only leftist reading of the MCU/DCEU is that they’re loving right-wing garbage.
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Dec 31, 2019 01:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:
people who get mad at curse words in movies are basically children Barack Obama nodding to Doctor Manhattan in an African body: "yes, this is what black excellence means." Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 01:31 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 01:29
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:My favorite part is I don't think it's gonna stop and people will increasingly be demanding that you treat fandom identity like religious identity Commodity fetishism is only going to increasingly become more extreme and bizarre as people become more and more alienated by capitalism, yes. People already mentioned TLJ, and it’s a great example. There is literally nothing “subversive” about this movie. Luke is the new yoda, Snoke’s death literally accomplished nothing, it’s still empire vs rebellion at the end, etc. The movie completely contradicts itself thematically as well, holdo sacrificing herself is good, but Finn doing so is bad? Lmfao. This isn’t even getting into how the casino planet literally added nothing or how the movie was so tonally confused from start to finish with plot, editing, cringe jokes, and attempts at drama that it renders the film unwatchable. But some trolls on the internet harassed rose irl so the movie must be the equivalent of citizen Kane and if you disagree you’re a fascist i guess tylersayten has issued a correction as of 01:40 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 01:34
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The best part about that is Disney caving in to the trolls and relegating Rose to the sidelines in the new movie. Showed a lot of courage there, guys.
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Dec 31, 2019 01:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The best part about that is Disney caving in to the trolls and relegating Rose to the sidelines in the new movie. Showed a lot of courage there, guys. Their hilariously lovely excuse about that is even better https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-writer-sets-record-straight-perceived-last-jedi-jabs-1265168 edit: fixed link tylersayten has issued a correction as of 01:45 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 01:42
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Dec 31, 2019 01:45
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these two tweets aren't 100% related to this talk about "consumerism as identity," but it's close enough to be relevant https://twitter.com/BUSSCRO/status/1211320791561900033 tylersayten posted:Commodity fetishism is only going to increasingly become more extreme and bizarre as people become more and more alienated by capitalism, yes. i can say with more certainty that our culture in these formative adult years was lamer than that of gen x and boomers
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Dec 31, 2019 01:46
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i would love if the baby yoda danced.
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Dec 31, 2019 01:47
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 tylersayten posted:Their hilariously lovely excuse about that is even better https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-writer-sets-record-straight-perceived-last-jedi-jabs-1265168 there was just no way they could've slipped her in to a 2 1/2 hour run time when they were reanimating Carrie Fisher's corpse.
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Dec 31, 2019 01:48
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Soup du Jour posted:There’s this weird problem of scale that the ST has where the first order is on the periphery of the new republic and not considered a huge problem but also has a death star the size of a planet and a huge military the portrayal of the First Order is both ridiculous and how official enemy states are portrayed in US media like, according to cable news north korea is both a minor country across the world from the US and may wipe the West Coast at any moment
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Dec 31, 2019 01:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Come to think of it, if the First Order already controls the galaxy then why does the Emperor want to send 1000 star destroyers with death star lasers to blow up a thousand planets? Doesn't he control them already? The Emperor is bombing his own people!
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Dec 31, 2019 01:52
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dont you think it would be great if someone made the baby yoda dance? who's with me.
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Dec 31, 2019 01:52
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get that OUT of my face posted:if people are so alienated by capitalism then one would think that they'll eventually become more radicalized against it, instead of playing by its rules and doing what it wants more and more with each passing year. perhaps millennials aren't as idealistic and progressive as we're made out to be it’s because most people in this country are still completely oblivious as to how capitalism has destroyed democracy.
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Dec 31, 2019 01:53
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Atrocious Joe posted:the portrayal of the First Order is both ridiculous and how official enemy states are portrayed in US media Atrocious Joe posted:The Emperor is bombing his own people! poo poo that makes perfect sense now. get that OUT of my face posted:i can say with more certainty that our culture in these formative adult years was lamer than that of gen x and boomers Culture is shaped by the purse strings, and the vast majority of what's on offer comes primarily from institutional nepotism cases who grew up indoctrinated with bourgeois values
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Dec 31, 2019 01:55
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