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im generally way happier to see a big mob of chaingunners than a big mob of shotgunners in any given situation
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Dec 31, 2019 07:48
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DisDisDis posted:im generally way happier to see a big mob of chaingunners than a big mob of shotgunners in any given situation Maybe the only saving grace is that chaingunners die more to infighting than Doomguy but I'll still peg them as worst because shotgunners have a delay between firing while a chaingunner you've got maybe half a second before DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
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Dec 31, 2019 07:52
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Honestly, I dislike Pain Elementals more than anything else.
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Dec 31, 2019 08:13
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I'm gonna say it. I like Quake, but I think the enemy design in general sucks.
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Dec 31, 2019 08:17
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It’s hard to objectively judge Plutonia because I’m going into it after UV’ing Doom and Doom 2 but at the same time I haven’t had to reload as much as I did on Perfect Hatred or Tricks and Traps. The cruelest Doom levels completely restrict the player’s ability to move and it sucks so much but Plutonia is all about analyzing the map to know where to fall back or blindly backpedal. A 1/3 of the way in Plutonia has locked a door behind me once whereas Doom 2 would be like “fight these meatballs on a tightrope over harmful floors and maybe you’ll find the right wall to hump” e: I also like the lack of secrets. It cuts the time I spend in levels by half humping walls and the designers make no intent that you’re fool enough to pistol start. al-azad fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 08:22
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chaosapiant posted:Vores are ok if there's a corner nearby to peep from. My least favorite are the Spawns, those stupid blobby enemies that are incredible fast and explode in your face. gently caress those things. Also gently caress Shambler's. Their lightning poo poo is hitscan, their melee attack is hard (for me at least) to predict well enough to get in close range, and they have like 400 health. Vores have an attack that will relentlessly hunt you down unless you break line of sight as they're launching it, so they're a lot more like archviles than revenants and treating them that way is the trick to dealing with them easily. Ionous's map in xmasjam2019 has been my favorite so far by a pretty wide margin. It has a multi-wave boss fight at the end that throws just about the entire expanded bestiary at you. One wave is a boat load of vores, baby vores, toxic vores, and baby toxic vores and they're one of the better fights in that arena. The last wave before the final boss just dumps a bunch of spawns into the arena and I went into a blind rage just seeing them, and that was before they killed me 3 times. Still a great map.
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Dec 31, 2019 08:26
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al-azad posted:Yep, chaingunners are the worst enemy in Doom. They're actually the best enemy in Doom because they force you to ignore everything you would normally target as a priority. Plutonia just over-uses them.
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Dec 31, 2019 10:43
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Glagha posted:I'm gonna say it. I like Quake, but I think the enemy design in general sucks. Ogres are a masterpiece. Everything else is fine, so long as the map designer is judicious with them. Except spawns, those are never fun. The roster as a whole probably needs more options at the mid to low end but at this point big spongey enemies are kind of the Quake “feel”. If you shift the average down too far it’ll start feeling too much like Doom, I think. Quake’s a game where you should be feeling oppressed by terrible monstrosities from the outer dark more than you are cutting swathes through hordes.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:07
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Copper Quake made some good changes to enemy behaviour, like decreasing the insane turn rate of vorr projectiles. I really hope it becomes the base for future mods/updates.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:08
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Part of the genius of Dusk was having no hitscanners.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:30
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Despite looking and moving like Quake, DUSK, AE and WRATH all shoot more like Doom when it comes to enemy count and health. Which is a good thing.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:37
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Hitscan enemies in Doom are good for the strategy of the game because of their low-health + high-threat nature. They create priority targets for the player in a group of enemies and having different enemies that the player has to treat differently makes for much more interesting gameplay. They're also not like annoying build engine hitscanners at all.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:46
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Ogres are a masterpiece... Ogres are legit one of my favorite and best designed and more fun enemies in any FPS. If I get hit by them I at least feel like it's my fault (usually), and they have a close range chainsaw which you can bait and dance around, as well as there bouncy grenades. Two Ogres on a ledge overlooking where you are is always a challenge, but never unfair. I feel like a bad rear end dodging and sprinting and spinning away from their grenades while I'm either unloading my double barrel or nail gun into their faces. Man Ogres are fun. One thing I like about the expansions (so far at least) is that the enemy roster is filled in a bit at the lower end. Scorpion enemies are basically mobile nail gun turrets while goblins are weak but agile melee fuckers. And they bring dogs back quite a bit as well. Original Quake didn't use dogs nearly enough. They're quick and can be dangerous in packs, but go down easy. Like Metamucil.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:49
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anatomi posted:Copper Quake made some good changes to enemy behaviour, like decreasing the insane turn rate of vorr projectiles. I really hope it becomes the base for future mods/updates. It probably won't as a general thing, but it *is* the basis for the Finnish mappers episode "Realm of the Lost": http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61812 Really cool to see a whole collab episode make it out. Some excellent quirky new Quake mapping blood represented here. It does sound like they are going to have a tweaked/bugfixed "1.1" release soon so maybe wait for that? 
JLaw fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 15:59
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IronicDongz posted:Hitscan enemies in Doom are good for the strategy of the game because of their low-health + high-threat nature. They create priority targets for the player in a group of enemies and having different enemies that the player has to treat differently makes for much more interesting gameplay. It rarely works out though, usually a result of poor level design and hitscan enemies basically have infinite range. I keep thinking back to Heretic and how that game was overall more fun for me because with no hitscan enemies I can be far more aggressive whereas my Doom 2 strategies are creeping around corners or abusing doors which Civvie had a specific word for and Plutonia totally recognizes by having very few actual doors. Condemn me to hell for saying this but I think Doom 2 is the worst of the Doom engine games. It's undeniably the most influential for the SSG and new monsters but it was such an uneven experience that its predecessors immediately surpassed. Maybe TNT will change my mind on that.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:00
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there's at least 1 doom mod that just adds the weapons/enemies from 2 to the already-existing-levels in the original, right?
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Dec 31, 2019 17:06
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Hitscan for me works if a situation is positioned as such that I know I'm guaranteed to lose health, and they provide med packs here and there to sprint to while getting shot and taking out hit scanners. Otherwise it's like falling in lava: you're guaranteed to take damage until you figure out how to not be in there. I do like Chaingunners if for nothing else, that moment of "oh gently caress die die die!' I get whenever they appear on screen.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:07
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Plutonia is good and chaingunners combined with Archviles are good. Badly placed Pain Elementals and Barons are my most hated enemies. They’re tedious to fight.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:09
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I eat barons for breakfast, they're sponges but so slow and easily avoided with like 6 inches of space to sidestep. I think whoever designed the mancubus was like "these dudes couldn't hit a fly, we should probably fix that." Doom 2016 made barons actually scary.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:14
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chaingunners are fine. shotgunners are the deadliest enemy in doom by far
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Dec 31, 2019 17:15
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Chaingunners are alright in most maps but people could stop using Pain Elementals forever and I wouldn't mind.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:47
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2019: actually, chaingunners are good 2020: actually, pain elementals are good? 2021: actually, vores and spawns are good??
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Dec 31, 2019 19:07
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I never had a big hate-on for pain elementals and never got the hate. That said, I also haven't played the wide range of WADs some folks have that might make them absolutely terrible.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:12
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If Pain Elements fired projectile Lost Souls that exploded on contact and only released real Lost Souls when it died, it would be a much less lovely enemy.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:15
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Pain elementals are good. They force the player to hurry the fek up and not drain a room of monsters slowly. I also absolutely hate the fekkers, which is probably entirely their design purpose. Like, the entirety of the Doom2 menagerie additions (discluding the HellKnight) are all explicitly designed to do away with Doom1's poor combat habits of "Occasionally sidestep". In hindsight, it's brilliant.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:15
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can't believe its gonna be 1997 in a few hours
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Dec 31, 2019 19:16
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Yeah I find archviles way more aggravating than pain elementals and I like them as enemies because when used properly they really shake up encounters in interesting ways. Pain elementals are not that big an issue, they just demand an answer. They certainly aren't an instant health tax like chaingunners are.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:16
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pain elementals are ugly and not in a good way like archviles
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Dec 31, 2019 19:20
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How the heck is it that some people here can't fight a Pain Elemental? What is this, a thread of Graf Zahl alts?
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Dec 31, 2019 19:23
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Rocket Pan posted:How the heck is it that some people here can't fight a Pain Elemental? What is this, a thread of Graf Zahl alts? this is the meanest thing you could ever say to another human being
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Dec 31, 2019 19:24
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Is there any Doom Eternal gameplay of the new arch-vile? I'm pretty fond of those fine bois and it'll be interesting how they translate the LOS attack, massive health, and super speed to the new format.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:27
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ETPC posted:can't believe its gonna be 1997 in a few hours Meh. In 10 hours I'll be inside of the month where I turn 40. I was just 13 years old playing shareware Knee Deep in the Dead. That said, I wished I'd kept up with the WAD community yearly since I was there at the beginning. I remember two amazing levels way back in 95 or 96, one was a huge college reproduction I think called "trinity" and another was a level that pulled some amazing tricks (all prior to source ports) like an invisible staircase lined with candles, or a truck flipped over with spinning tires.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:31
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I've never been good at dealing with Archvilles. Lost Civilization has an area where it throws 3 at you at the same time plus tons of other enemies and it took my 20 or so tries to get through that area.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:49
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The tricks to beating archviles are to immediately get some object(s) between you and it, immediately focus it down with whatever is convenient (Point blank BFG, even for a single one is often worth it), and try getting other enemies to hit it because while enemies will never retaliate against an archvile, archviles will ALWAYS retaliate against other monsters, so distracting them with exploding imps that tagged them with a fireball is always good.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:53
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You can typically get 3 rockets on an arch-vile before having to take cover. At close range they're also kind of erratic like a pinky that's 10x faster which means they end up running into walls a lot.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:59
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The infighting thing is generally how you can get away with fighting archviles in big mobs, because while you'll struggle to take cover with other enemies chasing you and driving you out into the open, the archviles are probably getting distracted blowing up hell knights and then picking them back up again.
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Dec 31, 2019 20:06
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https://twitter.com/mikeshapiroland/status/1211864527316357121
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Dec 31, 2019 22:37
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chaosapiant posted:Meh. In 10 hours I'll be inside of the month where I turn 40. I was just 13 years old playing shareware Knee Deep in the Dead. I think the one with the truck and invisible bits was uac_dead.wad
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Dec 31, 2019 22:45
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Pain elementals aren't the worst when you can get in close and chaingun them. They have a pretty high stun chance, as long as you can keep the fire on them, they'll go down pretty quick. If necessary, you can move to use the pain elemental as a shield against other enemies. If there's more than one you're going to have to let them spawn a couple lost souls, but they go down pretty quick, really. It gets harder when there's a bunch of space between you and them, Stardate 20X6 had a bit that sticks out in my mind with like, six pain elementals far away across a huge gap and you are stuck on a little balcony, so you're barely hitting them and they're launching lost souls at you from a mile away. Revenants are still my bane, I've gotten much better at fighting them but they still drive me nuts. I'm really bad at baiting punches, I've died to point blank rockets far more than I care to admit.
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Dec 31, 2019 22:57
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chaosapiant posted:That said, I wished I'd kept up with the WAD community yearly since I was there at the beginning. I remember two amazing levels way back in 95 or 96, one was a huge college reproduction I think called "trinity" and another was a level that pulled some amazing tricks (all prior to source ports) like an invisible staircase lined with candles, or a truck flipped over with spinning tires. They're both famous: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Unholy_Trinity https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doomsday_of_UAC
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Dec 31, 2019 22:59
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