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Braggart posted:Well I already knew Giles Coren was exactly as bad as Toby Young and for the same reasons, but uh, I just saw this: Speaking of Toby... https://twitter.com/leostewart365/status/1212015343364902912
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Dec 31, 2019 15:49
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Braggart posted:Well I already knew Giles Coren was exactly as bad as Toby Young and for the same reasons, but uh, I just saw this: The rear end in a top hat spent a day filming at my work once. He's even worse than he is on camera. That said, I did like watching the food programs he did with Sue Perkins, just for the amount of horrible stuff she made him eat.
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Dec 31, 2019 16:00
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Grey Hunter posted:The rear end in a top hat spent a day filming at my work once. My wife and I used to absolutely adore Supersizers. I just made her sad by reading out the tweets posted just above to her. Someone tell me that Sue Perkins is still ok.. On another note I’m ending the year by cooking up a test batch of next month’s UKMT special fudge- ‘Millionaires shot-dead’. It features short-bread biscuits and chocolate.
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Dec 31, 2019 16:22
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Guavanaut posted:the assertion that the first half of the 20th century was all about rationality and progress and the second half was about emotions triumphing over facts.
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Dec 31, 2019 16:43
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Azza Bamboo posted:Let's get down to the nitty gritty of a winning strategy then. Who do we need to turn and where to make up the seats for a parliament? The Tories got it spot on with their laser focus on "Workington Man" and Labour Leave seats. Surely given our huge defeat we now have a wide choice of battlegrounds and demographics to target and actually work on. The Tories had the media, Labour didn't. It's that simple, Labour needs to strategize how it's going to deal with the media because manifestos are utterly meaningless. Blind tests have proven Labour policies are overwhelmingly more popular than Conservative ones, and those same tests concluded with "Who will you vote for?" which saw a majority Conservative result. The Labour manifesto is not the problem. People wanted Corbyn but were bombarded with propaganda making them vote for what they oppose. Bobby Deluxe posted:This was one of the few problems I had with Corbyn, the 'kinder politics' thing. I don't think it worked and I think it ended up not only with him looking weak, but with too many Tory controversies going unopposed. Chomsky summed it up perfectly when he stated, "One must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. They've managed to convince many that the most passionate anti-racist campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually pro-racist and anti-Semitic."
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Dec 31, 2019 17:01
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Blair dealt with the media by being a tory at a time when the tories were weak. There's no trick to make them play nice, you either give them what they want or you don't. Give up the left position, or don't.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:04
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Triumph of the Fact
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Dec 31, 2019 17:14
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Find out all the sordid poo poo they've done and use it to blackmail them imo. (j/k blackmail is a violation of the law and highly immoral also) crispix fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 17:14
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Tesseraction posted:Gotta love that I'll be entering the 2020s with the worst cold I've ever had. The only thing worse was the flu I had in the 2000s. I had like three separate places I could go tonight, but a gentle walk in town had me in a cold sweat, so I'm going to play Smash instead and watch Parks and Rec. Which isn't actually a bad night, but I quite fancied getting out this evening. I might have enough energy to get to the corner shop for a beer, if I'm feeling particularly wild.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:15
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I think a firebrand socialist who rejected 'niceness' and just told the Tories to go gently caress themselves would do much better than people think. I've been mulling over the implications of such a figure openly defying parliamentary protocol, just loudly calling the government murdering bastards and refusing to take it back, then refusing to leave the chamber. With a supportive party behind them willing to back them up I'm not sure the speaker could really do much about it, they can hardly haul out the entire opposition without causing a constitutional crisis that would massively play into Labour's hands. Things do need to become more confrontational in any case. Electing a centrist as leader will be the death of the party, I guarantee it.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:20
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The party as a whole would not support that and I think neither would a lot of labour's voters.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:24
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the left doesn't try to build power independent of the system rigged against it, it used to, but the inevitability of unions falling to the same class evolution as all hierarchies lead us to this path and the story of the british modern left is one of cowardly never evaluating its own failures with any form of intellectual rigour, more always going for a compromise when dealt with the failure of their previous compromise and never reckoning with an intellectual base that's always been dismissive of working class rhetoric as vaguely unintelligent and/or reactionary in a uniquely british way that really has no basis in fact, i feel at this point we should have a predominance of scouse voices as our intelligentsia given their historical correctness tbh
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Dec 31, 2019 17:25
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OwlFancier posted:The party as a whole would not support that and I think neither would a lot of labour's voters. I disagree on the latter but lol it's not like we'll ever find out with the leader of her majesty's most loyal opposition, Jessflaps
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Dec 31, 2019 17:39
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OwlFancier posted:The party as a whole would not support that and I think neither would a lot of labour's voters. Works for the Tories, though. They've blatantly shown contempt for Parliament and democracy, broken electoral law multiple times, lied to the Queen, defied the courts and so on and so forth. They even openly joke about being the nasty party. There needs to be an opposition party that's willing to fight back and use every trick in the book just like they do. Anyone in the party that doesn't support it needs a swift boot, just like the Tories do when they go on their highly efficient backstabbing sprees.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:40
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Guavanaut posted:I associate patriotism more with "rah rah my country right or wrong #1" The extended version of the quote continues; ‘if right to be kept right, and if wrong to be set right’. Which doesn’t require any particular sentiment other than an acknowledgement that it is where you live, and perhaps some degree of hope that the fight is not entirely un-winnable.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:43
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'my country right or wrong' predates that quote by a way, and I believe the full version now concludes 'MAGAMAGAMAGA lock her up!'
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Dec 31, 2019 17:51
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SUNKOS posted:Works for the Tories, though. They've blatantly shown contempt for Parliament and democracy, broken electoral law multiple times, lied to the Queen, defied the courts and so on and so forth. They even openly joke about being the nasty party. There needs to be an opposition party that's willing to fight back and use every trick in the book just like they do. Anyone in the party that doesn't support it needs a swift boot, just like the Tories do when they go on their highly efficient backstabbing sprees. It works for the tories because people who vote for the tories are assholes. Left politics isn't compatible with being an rear end in a top hat, not really. You can be abrasive, perhaps, but a lot of people are left wing because they're actually just nice people, and we're competing for votes with the lib dems, too, who are extremely well placed to peel off decorum focused centrists/center left types. Also there is no mechanism for booting uncooperative MPs and little in the way of mechanism for getting rid of uncooperative parts of the distributing party apparatus, it's allegedly democratic, because that's another thing the left cares about while the right doesn't, the last person who tried running everything from the center was Blair and he was an rear end in a top hat too. You can't separate tory tactics from tory politics, because their tactics are representative of their politics. And I do not think there are enough anarchists in the UK for the left to succeed on a "gently caress the system" platform or for the labour party to be democratically purged.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:52
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radmonger posted:The extended version of the quote continues; ‘if right to be kept right, and if wrong to be set right’.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:56
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Calling a murderer a murderer is not 'being an rear end in a top hat' though, there's a marked difference between gleeful Tory malice and justified socialist anger, and boldly embracing the latter is not something that has been tried in the UK for a very long time
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Dec 31, 2019 17:58
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ThomasPaine posted:Calling a murderer a murderer is not 'being an rear end in a top hat' though, there's a marked difference between gleeful Tory malice and justified socialist anger, and boldly embracing the latter is not something that has been tried in the UK for a very long time Yes, but what I'm saying is that the way the tories do it is different, they are the party of the "don't actually give a poo poo gently caress everything" crowd. And that's a larger demographic, I think, and one that requires much less effort to buy into, than angry socialism. It also is something that is still very vulnerable to manipulation by the press because they will work very hard to portray both sides as just as bad as each other, and to wilfully fail to understand the difference. And it will cost labour votes to the lib dems. Whether or not it can mobilize more out of the disengaged I don't know.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:02
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Oh that sounds cool, will see if I can donate in January. Just want to quote this from a few pages back. please please try not to think like this, we want to be as low barrier to entry as possible and if there is something you think you need then absolutely apply, let the committee people make those decisions and please don't put any "people might need it more than me" guilt on your selves, everyone has different needs.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:04
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ThomasPaine posted:I think a firebrand socialist who rejected 'niceness' and just told the Tories to go gently caress themselves would do much better than people think. I mean they can force them to withdraw from the chamber and send the serjeant at arms over to escort them out at which stage you have to wonder if getting in a fistfight with someone performing a public function in a silly costume will be good optics. I would say beating someone up in parliament will shouting get your loving hands off me mate may not play well
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Dec 31, 2019 18:07
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kustomkarkommando posted:I would say beating someone up in parliament will shouting get your loving hands off me mate may not play well Lmao, what an image. This must have happened at some point. I'm sure there's some arcane rule you could invoke to duel the speaker or something.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:11
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ThomasPaine posted:Lmao, what an image. This must have happened at some point. Probably what would actually happen of there was a big hubbub is the speaker would suspend the sitting for a bit, then try again to proceed probably by naming the leader of the opposition for a five day suspension - this needs to be voted on but you know if you're not the majority chances are you will lose. If there was a big furor over that the speaker can adjourn the sitting for the day due to grave disorder but would absolutely proceed with naming the disorderly member the next day. If you ignored the suspension and just turned up pretty sure that's contempt of parliament
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Dec 31, 2019 18:15
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kustomkarkommando posted:If you ignored the suspension and just turned up pretty sure that's contempt of parliament Yeah so what
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Dec 31, 2019 18:16
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kustomkarkommando posted:If you ignored the suspension and just turned up pretty sure that's contempt of parliament Good job contempt of parliament is taken seriously and has consequences. Oh wait...
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Dec 31, 2019 18:17
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Actually resisting the serjeant of arms gets you suspended for the entirety of the remaining parliamentary session looking at the specific rules
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Dec 31, 2019 18:19
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah so what I mean you won't be allowed into the chamber. Because again there are people in silly costumes who's job it is to stop you
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Dec 31, 2019 18:20
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I'm pretty sure it would be taken very seriously if it was the opposition doing it, especially if that opposition was leftists. We're about 3 or 4 years away, unless I miss my guess, from major western powers just arbitrarily jailing political opponents at this point, if they haven't started already without me noticing.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:20
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Contempt of parliament is as serious as parliament wants to be, if the opposition kept doing it the government could absolutely use their majority to impose whatever consequences it wants.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:23
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Looking for the last example of when someone got into a similar ruck and it seems to have been 1931quote:John McGovern was called to put his question to the Secretary of State for Scotland William Adamson concerning arrests of lay preachers in Glasgow. He continued to ask supplementary questions demanding the release of the preachers, and the Speaker directed him to resume his seat. McGovern refused and was 'named' for his defiance of the Speaker; a motion to suspend him from the service of the House was carried. McGovern refused to leave and the Serjeant-at-Arms was ordered to remove him by force. Labour MPs James Maxton, John Beckett and John Kinley came to McGovern's help in resisting the Serjeant-at-Arms and his assistants, causing a mass brawl. The Speaker suspended the sitting for 19 minutes while the struggle went on.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:27
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I'm also assuming that everyone who has ever been serjeant at arms has secretly practised their headlocks every morning wishing that today would be the day they get to wrestle an MP
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Dec 31, 2019 18:29
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In honour of a lovely year where tories won, climate lost, and I had a lot of health problems, I'd just like to share this from the best film ever, Children of Men:
Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 18:30
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OwlFancier posted:Left politics isn't compatible with being an rear end in a top hat, not really. You can be abrasive, perhaps, but a lot of people are left wing because they're actually just nice people, and we're competing for votes with the lib dems, too, who are extremely well placed to peel off decorum focused centrists/center left types.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:34
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Bobby Deluxe posted:True, but I would like to see a little less carefully and calmly explaining why they're wrong, and a little more 'trans rights are human rights or I'll loving eat you' in the party's approach. I agree that you can get more confrontational than corbyn, certainly. Though that again is probably going to turn off a lot of voters if we elect RLB because they'll hate the idea of a woman being loud and opinionated, but I hope there are more people who would find it a selling point as opposed to boris the sexual assault elemental.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:38
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I'm in two minds. ON the one hand, I am deeply dubious tbhat the message reaches the people it needs to, because we are mired in so much press corruption as to make essentially any successful messaging impossible. On the other, it's not like we've not tried everything else, and maybe being loudly, passionately, and assertively pro the rights of the oppressed might wake up the non-voters. What's the worst that could happen?
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Dec 31, 2019 18:43
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thespaceinvader posted:What's the worst that could happen?
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Dec 31, 2019 18:44
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If the dark age of technology was loving iphones I'm gonna be very unimpressed.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:46
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OwlFancier posted:If the dark age of technology was loving iphones I'm gonna be very unimpressed. Abominable Intelligence, and the creation of Servitors from humans instead of using computers, was actually just Zuckerburg.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:48
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Also I didn't realise giles coren was the guy who wanted to gently caress his 3 year old lol.
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Dec 31, 2019 18:51
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