|
Sure, but nobody is disagreeing with that, which is why this conversation is so monotonous every time it comes up.
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 10:46 |
|
|
especially because when facebook bought oculus the entire thing was "they won't force fb integration you are just fear mongering" and now the conversation is "you don't HAVE to login" so I'm just wondering where the goal posts will be at the end of 2020
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:32
|
|
|
Lemming posted:To be fair, they suck real bad Hey facebook might be a poo poo company overall, not even saying its not. But lets just add some poo poo to the op and move the gently caress on until something "new" actually comes up. Til then, its just the same old dead horse being flogged. Nemesis Of Moles posted:Except for the new policy about linking accounts for social features that went in this month which is the main subject everyone's talking about I guess So lets get it in the OP as a warning and stop beating a dead horse. Facebook being evil comes up every handful of pages. Pylons posted:It's been discussed to death and nobody has anything new to add to the conversation. Pylons posted:"Wow, facebook sucks" except for a different reason this time is not really adding anything. Ta da. This person gets it! Asema posted:This is a real bad take because it's essentially saying "Don't talk about consumer concerns because look at this dope tech!!" and that's just No. Its just been beat to death every 5 pages. Add something into the op about "facebook logging data' and get over it. Asema posted:especially because when facebook bought oculus the entire thing was "they won't force fb integration you are just fear mongering" and now the conversation is "you don't HAVE to login" so I'm just wondering where the goal posts will be at the end of 2020 Right. Again, Its not "NEW" that poo poo goes down with facebook. Add something to the op and lets move on. Next topic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:32
|
|
|
I'm still not super clear why this topic, which comes up often and has discussion around it, is different from every other topic that comes up often and has discussion around it. If you personally don't have anything more to add like, just scroll past it, it's easy. You're not the most important person here Again just to reiterate this new policy came in like 2 weeks ago and there's been maybe a page of talk about it. That doesn't seem buckwild to me and I don't get the inordinate reaction I guess. Nemesis Of Moles fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:34
|
|
|
Nemesis Of Moles posted:I'm still not super clear why this topic, which comes up often and has discussion around it, is different from every other topic that comes up often and has discussion around it. If you personally don't have anything more to add like, just scroll past it, it's easy. You're not the most important person here Because its been 2 weeks. Thats what we're trying to say here. Shove it into the OP or 2nd post or something and lets move on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
or just let people talk about whatever they want and don't try to be captain threadcop that seems easier imo by the power vested in me by my neckbeard i hereby ban all discussion of how cool boneworks is, as i personally don't like it and it's been out 2 weeks so
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Because its been 2 weeks. Thats what we're trying to say here. Shove it into the OP or 2nd post or something and lets move on. I don’t log in to oculus social stuff every day and just noticed it recently. It also bothered me and my friends a lot so I posted about it. I’m also not going to check the OP on the reg to make sure you didn’t ban a new topic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:52
|
|
|
Asema posted:especially because when facebook bought oculus the entire thing was "they won't force fb integration you are just fear mongering" and now the conversation is "you don't HAVE to login" so I'm just wondering where the goal posts will be at the end of 2020 Lol no way, everyone knew it was coming sooner or later. It's the obvious reason they bought Oculus in the first place. I don't think I recall anyone arguing that it wasn't going to happen at some point, just that it hadn't happened yet (until nowish)
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:55
|
|
|
Nemesis Of Moles posted:I mean I can think of a dozen other conversations we have in here every single week that I don't see a lot of development or advancement happening in, but folx seem to have a good time so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Agreed, I still want Metroid Prime Trilogy VR on the Quest.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:57
|
|
|
Original Metroid but in VR, so you gotta do wall climbing and poo poo. Do a downward dog to enter ball form.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:58
|
|
|
Hellsau posted:Agreed, I still want Metroid Prime Trilogy VR on the Quest. I’ve never played any prime game and would love this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
Hellsau posted:Agreed, I still want Metroid Prime Trilogy VR on the Quest. dolphin has a vr mode that apparently is not AS horrible as you would think
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Because its been 2 weeks. Thats what we're trying to say here. Shove it into the OP or 2nd post or something and lets move on. Or people can discuss a topic that's recent and relevant to VR in the thread about VR without being policed by people who would rather just discuss Beat Saber and Boneworks from here to the end of time. Like I don't even care much one way or the other about Facebook here but it's nonsense to say it's either not relevant or too old to discuss considering some of the other things that get talked about here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:04
|
|
|
Elite Dangerous is so goddamn chill in VR, unless you're flying a souped up Vulture that spins like a loving top. As annoying as its game design can be, it's easily a top VR experience, goddamn.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:04
|
|
|
The Walrus posted:dolphin has a vr mode that apparently is not AS horrible as you would think Dolphin was way too janky for me, someone who played through both Subnautica and Alien: Isolation with few issues, and who played Fallout VR for like a couple dozen hours before Fallout 4 became too bad for me to continue. Shine posted:Elite Dangerous is so goddamn chill in VR, unless you're flying a souped up Vulture that spins like a loving top. As annoying as its game design can be, it's easily a top VR experience, goddamn. Yeah Elite was a really fun experience, and mining void opals to make a bunch of money to buy and outfit a top-tier ship was pretty fun. And then the game ended for me because everything past that seemed cripplingly unfun - that engineering nonsense looked real bad. Hellsau fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jan 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:07
|
|
|
The most recent news about VR is that Boneworks made a whole bunch of money. (3 million in it's first week!) This is the only thing we are allowed to talk about until the next VR info comes out. Please police yourself accordingly. Edit; Every Wednesday we will vote for ONE USER to give their recommendations for "The Top Games to get for VR" add this to the OP please Asema fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jan 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:08
|
|
|
The thing about Facebook is I don’t think anyone in this thread believes they are a good company. I don’t think anyone in this thread believes they won’t do scummy things with VR data they collect. The problem is we dont have many alternatives. I bought my Rift almost exactly one year ago. My alternatives at the time were the Vive, which was more expensive, better in a couple ways and objectively worse in many other ways, WMR, which is objectively worse, Vive Pro which was better but way more expensive, or Pimax, which was way way more expensive. Today, your options are buy a Rift/Quest and support Facebook, pay $1000 American dollarydoos for an Index, or go with WMR, which is still objectively worse. Like, I don’t own a Rift because I’m all “yay Facebook, gently caress democracy”, I own a Rift because it was the best option in the price segment I could afford.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:24
|
|
|
Is there a reason you left Vive/Vive pro out of "what you can do today" line or did you want to make a comment on the Index price. I just think chomping down and policing what can be talked about is loving stupid, especially when it's based on a policy change that is recent and relevant to all the options.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:27
|
|
|
Shine posted:Elite Dangerous is so goddamn chill in VR, unless you're flying a souped up Vulture that spins like a loving top. As annoying as its game design can be, it's easily a top VR experience, goddamn. In a simrig with HOTAS/pedals (and well thought out mapping) it's loving glorious
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:28
|
|
|
Asema posted:Is there a reason you left Vive/Vive pro out of "what you can do today" line or did you want to make a comment on the Index price. Because the OG vive is basically discontinued at this point and 1.0 tracking isn't as good as 2.0. SO its "dead tech" just like the CV1 is. And the Vive Pro, without good controllers is 300 dollars more than the index. The only time anyone mentions the pro anymore, is wireless talks, and most of the people "buying VR" aint about to drop 2 grand + for a decent setup on a vive pro. I love my vive pro + knuckles + wireless setup, But recommend it to anyone? Not unless you can literally light money on fire.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:29
|
|
|
How's No Man's Sky play with the Index controllers? Decently now?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
I've played Journey of the Gods this week, and I finished it mostly disappointed by it. It's one of the titles VR fans like to mention when some people ask if there is more to VR gaming that rhythm games, wave shooters and short experiences, indicating this is more a fully fledged traditional Action/RPG inspired in Zelda. Well, no. Hell, it's kind of sad some people would refer it to as anything 'full fledged', as it indicates how bad things have to be in the ecosystem, at least on the Quest store. To be fair with it, it has some good points like enemy variety, I liked that (there are enemy summoners, chargers, a huge with with vulnerable areas, another that that blinks around, another with a carapace that makes it invulnerable for a time, etc). Art is mostly good, too. But fully fledged isn't. It's a 4-4.5 hours game, not a 7-8 hours like I had heard around. There is no main character, dialogue, real npcs, plot, or anything like that. The story is 'you are a hero (god?), stop the bad guy trying to destroy the world'. Literally that's it, I'm not exaggerating or summarizing. There is no open world, nor interesting interconnected hub or levels, there is seven discrete, linear levels you unlock one after another, which you enter through your base (just a place where you can upgrade a few items). There is no economy, trading or even consumables like ammo or potions. There is no RPG progression. There are three things you will use in combat, a sword, a shield and a crossbow, no more weapons (although at least these three have a pair of upgrades each). The sword combat itself is pure 'waggle the sword in enemies 2-3 times'. The game have you unlocking a series of godly powers, by the end of the game you win enough of them that potentially they could have made interesting puzzles using them in combination. But that never happens, the game is also underwhelming in that area: there is a single area with puzzles, about moving piles of sand with a single power. I can only think of a single second instance being puzzle-y enough, where you need to attract a big monster in a place to move a piece of scenario like a lever, but to be honest it was a bad puzzle as there was zero indication that the 'thing' would move like a lever with weight nor any past experience about the game having an element like that. There is another place where you have to slow down time to avoid rolling boulders but I don't think that classify as a puzzle? I think it's ironic how VR is supposed to be more immersive than traditional games (you can look around, the sense of scale, using your own hands), in practice I can immerse much better in '2d' games than in something so barebones. Maybe the game isn't so bad, maybe I had too much expectations. Maybe the problem is a sector of the VR community that feel the need to hype everything VR related so much, to a ludicrous point. Some of the subreddits are tiring, yeah we all want for VR to be a success, but that doesn't mean you have to post every small positive indication of the market or that every games is a 10/10 experience. For now, VR shines in unique experiences that are unlike traditional games, like Superhot VR, Beat Saber, Eleven Table Tennis, Thrill of the Fight, or old experiences that shine with new light like any flight sim or a game like Gadgeteer (traditional puzzle game that feels new thanks to the input method), even some ideas from Shadow point, or moments from I Expect you to Die. Again, there is no technical challenges to make something like Journey of the Gods but better, they just need a proper development cycle of 2.5 years or whatever. edit: Happy new year! :P Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jan 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:For now, VR shines in unique experiences that are unlike traditional games, like Superhot VR, Beat Saber, Eleven Table Tennis, Thrill of the Fight, or old experiences that shine with new light like any flight sim or a game like Gadgeteer (traditional puzzle game that feels new thanks to the input method), even some ideas from Shadow point, or moments from I Expect you to Die. Again, there is no technical challenges to make something like Journey of the Gods but better, they just need a proper development cycle of 2.5 years or whatever. I think this is kind of the key revelation that people don't understand about VR yet, including a lot of the developers. One of the biggest unforced errors for Journey of the Gods is the way you switch between the sword and the crossbow is you... press a button. Why? Swapping weapons on the fly in response to what enemies are doing can be fun as hell. The mechanics themselves can be enjoyable to do, but devs are still largely in the mindset of "well we use buttons to do stuff in traditional games, so we'll just keep using buttons as shorthand for actions that you could accomplish manually." Asgard's Wrath is in my opinion the ultimate expression of that. It doesn't matter how long they spent on it, the game is just a terrible VR game and no amount of additional developer resources would fix that. They set out to make something that strives to take no advantage of VR whatsoever. The mindset is the problem. Edit; i really fukin hate asgards wrath every time I think about it i get pissed off Lemming fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 01:12
|
|
|
It feels really good to have the throwing axe fly back into your hand, at least.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 01:24
|
|
|
In boneworks last night I had to make a lever stay pushed while I climbed up some scaffolding. I’m sure there was “a way” to do it, but I jammed a barrel in between the railing and the lever and went on my way. Game owns.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 01:26
|
|
|
Rolo posted:I don’t log in to oculus social stuff every day and just noticed it recently. It also bothered me and my friends a lot so I posted about it. Also at the very least it's worth informing people just what you're probably giving out via facebook integration as it gets worse.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 01:30
|
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:Also at the very least it's worth informing people just what you're probably giving out via facebook integration as it gets worse. Neddy Seagoon’s “informing” is everyone else’s “wild speculation and fearmongering”. Capitalism isn’t just about grabbing money it’s also about minimizing effort. Recording personal movement patterns is expensive, not just because the review process for any study would be a huge pain in the rear end for security and privacy review teams or that it would be expensive as gently caress to store (many GBs per play session) and analyze, but also because it would cost a lot more money to develop an ad model from that than it could ever earn back. No company trying to sell a product would be interested in marketing based off of how many pelvic thrusts you do in VR because suitable proxies would be way cheaper to target, ie “plays VR” and “likes VRChat”. If you assume Facebook is nakedly following a profit motive it makes less sense that they’d give a poo poo about anything but the easiest data to assemble for the biggest benefit. That sort of data is also usually straight up volunteered anyways. This has been argued over and over, and it hasn’t changed. Facebook sucks at making people feel reassured that their data is safe but it’s also not going out of its way to do evil things specifically. The most nefarious things about Facebook tend to arise from what they *aren’t* interested in doing, because they aren’t intending to abuse your data directly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 02:32
|
|
|
Gadgeteers... Do they have some sort of success now that they expanded to the Quest? A long while ago, it seemed that they got plenty of praise from various places and people, but the player numbers didn't back it up and the devs seemed pretty bummed. Kinda made me feel bad for them, considering they're trying something different than most others.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Neddy Seagoon’s “informing” is everyone else’s “wild speculation and fearmongering”. I really don't know why you're so hung up on "so they can target ads at you" when Facebook's real money comes from selling your data to companies. You are not the consumer, you are the product. Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:If you assume Facebook is nakedly following a profit motive it makes less sense that they’d give a poo poo about anything but the easiest data to assemble for the biggest benefit. That sort of data is also usually straight up volunteered anyways. The easiest data for the biggest benefit is an always-on AI assistant, passively recording while waiting for trigger phrases followed by commands. Which Facebook has openly stated they're developing for VR use. Other companies have been dragged to court for this sort of thing, and Facebook's business model is built on it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 02:54
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:Gadgeteers... Do they have some sort of success now that they expanded to the Quest? A long while ago, it seemed that they got plenty of praise from various places and people, but the player numbers didn't back it up and the devs seemed pretty bummed. Kinda made me feel bad for them, considering they're trying something different than most others. Every time I saw a Gadgeteer video it was of hundreds of blocks set up intricately across a big room, and watching them fall was neat, but I was also thinking, "This better be a lot easier than doing it in real life." I just rewatched the trailer, and yeah, they barely show the building and the bits they do show looks like it still contains all the tedium and frustrations of actually setting up hundreds of dominoes in real life. I feel like there are ways you could make that really easy and fun, like if you could pull the trigger and drag your controller over surfaces to draw a line of perfectly spaced blocks in any pattern (with your hand's height determining the height of the blocks). Similarly it would be nice to just draw the path of the rails instead of selecting individual pieces of rail and snapping them together. I haven't played the game, so maybe the mechanics work better than I imagine, but I really do think a big part of the problem they're having is that it looks look it involves tons of tedious work and nothing in the trailer dispels that notion. I enjoyed Fantastic Contraption, and I probably would have tried Gadgeteer if it looked that quick and fun to play.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 03:28
|
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:I really don't know why you're so hung up on "so they can target ads at you" when Facebook's real money comes from selling your data to companies. You are not the consumer, you are the product. I don't know if they buy data anymore - I think they don't - but Facebook definitely does not sell your data. They sell your attention. When other companies did gain access keys to Facebook it was expressly for the purpose of building Facebook applications, in the sense of handset manufacturers wanting a Facebook app but having too small of a footprint for Facebook to justify developing it. In other words, contracting out the applications. Neddy Seagoon posted:The easiest data for the biggest benefit is an always-on AI assistant, passively recording while waiting for trigger phrases followed by commands. Which Facebook has openly stated they're developing for VR use. Other companies have been dragged to court for this sort of thing, and Facebook's business model is built on it. They already deployed (and shut down) M, which would share a lot of technical details I imagine. The AR/VR org also encompasses Portal development, which uses Alexa, so it's not a super hard extrapolation to assume it would fill that gap. Also, passive recording is way too expensive and not at all useful. Far field voice model training is hard as poo poo and the data is so much easier to get from people searching for stuff on Facebook or affiliated sites for the same outcomes. An active mic also kills battery life. Far more effective is training a model to ignore everything until it matches the wake word, like so: https://machinelearning.apple.com/2017/10/01/hey-siri.html
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 03:30
|
|
|
Alright so played about 2 hours in VR and yeah putting on the back brace helped a lot. Its funny cause I wouldn't think of having this on in any situation other then my job, lifting heavy rear end produce boxes all day. But for simply standing upright for an hour, gotta get the support of the brace. And I got my health insurance card from work and I have no clue why I'm pretty sure I didn't average out the 30 hours a week since June, the boss made sure of that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 03:48
|
|
|
There is no data you can get from VR that Facebook wants except for poo poo like friends lists and play times. It's just getting ready for the good stuff in the future. The magic they're after is eye tracking, so they can know exactly what you're looking at and for how long, which they can definitely monetize when selling ads. Which is also incredibly creepy. "Your eyes stopped on the anime girl in a bikini ad for 0.39 seconds and look at your friend Miranda every time she's on your screen. Guess you're horny for young girls."
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
Infinite Karma posted:There is no data you can get from VR that Facebook wants except for poo poo like friends lists and play times. It's just getting ready for the good stuff in the future. TBH I think it's more long term than that, they kind of tipped their hand at OC6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCB_mfGmh9w&t=1857 I can't get the thing to fuckin embed at the right time on this phone whatever Once they have live maps of everyone and everything on the planet that's when things are gonna get real fucky Lemming fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jan 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 04:07
|
|
|
What they actually want is to control what they perceive to be the next iteration of the internet, like they already do in wide swaths of the world that never leave the facebook ecosystem. Mark Zuckerberg is exactly the kind of tech weirdo that read one Neil Stephenson novel too many and strongly believes in the Metaverse and he wants to make sure when everyone gets there it's already facebook branded So please just use VR Chat instead and resist attempts at big corporations monopolizing social spaces on the internet
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 04:08
|
|
|
Lemming posted:TBH I think it's more long term than that, they kind of tipped their hand at OC6 Watch just about anything they showed for VR development at OC6, and they are being pretty loving open about what they want. Especially the "we can map your entire body as an avatar and mimick facial expression" stuff. Because that'll be fun to feed into a metadata platform. Nevermind the identity-theft possibilities for when, not if, they get hacked. Again. homeless snail posted:What they actually want is to control what they perceive to be the next iteration of the internet, like they already do in wide swaths of the world that never leave the facebook ecosystem. Mark Zuckerberg is exactly the kind of tech weirdo that read one Neil Stephenson novel too many and strongly believes in the Metaverse and he wants to make sure when everyone gets there it's already facebook branded Exactly this. Anything they do to advance even open-source VR is with the subtones of "so people can make content for our platforms more easily".
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 04:58
|
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:Watch just about anything they showed for VR development at OC6, and they are being pretty loving open about what they want. Especially the "we can map your entire body as an avatar and mimick facial expression" stuff. Because that'll be fun to feed into a metadata platform. Nevermind the identity-theft possibilities for when, not if, they get hacked. Again. I knew I shouldn't have secured by SSN by, uh, my facial expressions
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 06:01
|
|
|
Leal posted:Alright so played about 2 hours in VR and yeah putting on the back brace helped a lot. Its funny cause I wouldn't think of having this on in any situation other then my job, lifting heavy rear end produce boxes all day. But for simply standing upright for an hour, gotta get the support of the brace. I used to have a lovely back too but vr ironically fixed that. I have a hardwood floor in my living room where my setup is, and when looking at things to put down for comfort/tactile orientation led me to discover current gen exercise mats. After ruling out throw rugs and thick foamy puzzle mats and the likes I ended up getting a Square36 cardio mat that's 4x6 feet (they come in lots of sizes). It's a black toughened giant yoga mat that's only 1/4 inch thick and lays perfectly flat but cushy enough I can crawl on my hands and knees. It's also made of some material that has no smell at all, one of the things that bothered me about all the other options I checked out. Works like a champ for VR and highly recommend it or one of the competing brand versions for this,. I eventually got the notion to start stretching and found a yoga for idiots youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VS6jgTTYAQ) and started doing it without any expectations other than restoring some flexibility so I wouldn't feel so loving old. Found it relaxing, stuck with it and much to my surprise my back only hurts now if I actually do something stupid like lift some poo poo wrong or physically strain it. I have a backbrace for those occasions but now it's getting dusty welp that's my story thanks for listening Here's to hoping 2020 is as good a year for vr as 2019 was
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 06:39
|
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:Watch just about anything they showed for VR development at OC6, and they are being pretty loving open about what they want. Especially the "we can map your entire body as an avatar and mimick facial expression" stuff. I thought it was pretty clear too, but every time I send Zuckerberg a map of my entire body he threatens legal action.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 06:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 10:46 |
|
|
Lemming posted:I knew I shouldn't have secured by SSN by, uh, my facial expressions Go look up deepfakes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 07:20
|
|