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Did you know Star Wars is the only film ever to be edited after filming?
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Jan 1, 2020 13:01
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It's the year 2020 and dorks are still mad at George Lucas.
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Jan 1, 2020 14:50
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General Dog posted:How many adult Jedi did Darth Vader actually kill in his career? We see him kill, generously, 1.5 adult Jedi in episodes 1-6 (and one of those was by forfeit). In Revenge of the Sith we see most of the Masters killed in Order 66, and then in Rebels and the video games we see that he's delegated a lot of work to these "Inquisitor" jamokes. He does kill a lot in between RotS and ANH. The comics make him even more of a terrifying force then he is depicted in the movies.
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Jan 1, 2020 17:32
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I like that Coppola saw an early cut of ANH and his only note was to add the title crawl to explain the backstory.
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Jan 1, 2020 17:44
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ruddiger posted:I like that Coppola saw an early cut of ANH and his only note was to add the title crawl to explain the backstory. There was always a title crawl, it's just it was originally like 10 paragraphs lol. Brian De Palma helped George edit it down.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:18
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teagone posted:There was always a title crawl, it's just it was originally like 10 paragraphs lol. Brian De Palma helped George edit it down. I think it was the DePalma documentary where they talk about Coppola being the one to tell George to add the title crawl. I’m assuming this is also the rough cut that still had the WWII fighter footage temped in.
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Jan 1, 2020 20:54
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teagone posted:There was always a title crawl, it's just it was originally like 10 paragraphs lol. Brian De Palma helped George edit it down. Is that why it's so slow and takes forever to finally fade away and pan down to the movie?
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Jan 1, 2020 21:02
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Everybody except Spielberg made fun of that assembly cut and Marcia in tears asked them to help their friend out. 
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Jan 1, 2020 21:09
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ruddiger posted:I think it was the DePalma documentary where they talk about Coppola being the one to tell George to add the title crawl. I’m assuming this is also the rough cut that still had the WWII fighter footage temped in. Never saw that documentary. I just read an interview where Spielberg said it was De Palma who actually gave the George the idea to include a prologue crawl which is new to me, though, it also says George has a different story about the origin of the crawl, lmao. https://toofab.com/2017/10/09/steven-spielberg-documentary-star-wars-opening-crawl-prologue-origin-george-lucas-brian-de-palma/
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Jan 1, 2020 23:24
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teagone posted:Never saw that documentary. I just read an interview where Spielberg said it was De Palma who actually gave the George the idea to include a prologue crawl which is new to me, though, it also says George has a different story about the origin of the crawl, lmao. https://toofab.com/2017/10/09/steven-spielberg-documentary-star-wars-opening-crawl-prologue-origin-george-lucas-brian-de-palma/ drat, I think I might’ve gotten the DePalma and the Spielberg docs mixed up, this sounds like what I’m half-remembering.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:26
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I always just remembered the crawl being 10 paragraphs of nonsense and De Palma told George it was confusing af, lol.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:31
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These are conversations these dudes had 40+ years ago probably drunk, I'd be amazed if they could remember it correctly
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Jan 1, 2020 23:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk This is the video that goes into the Star Wars editing process without falling into the trap of "Marcia saved it! Lucas was always an idiot!" Although it does (rightly in my opinion) bag on him for adding the ANH Jabba scene back in that adds nothing we don't already know and an absolutely horrible CG/out-of-character tail-stepping thing. Essentially the rough cut didn't have the basic editing flow down, which is fine because yes that's what assembly cuts usually are. Notably, we had a lot of extra scenes of Luke spliced in awkwardly with early Vader stuff, some very weak speeder footage, and a lack of some dialogue that was added in post to make up for what little information was lost during the later editing process. This also goes into De Palma flipping out after he finished watching it. It's a cool instructional video on how an editing do even if you have relatively little interest in Star Wars. FWIW I think people also like to carry water for the idea that George was some unproven filmmaker at this point. He got to do this because of American Graffiti, which probably 0.1% of Star Wars fans know anything about, and having a process where you can get the takes of Spielberg, De Palma, and Coppola isn't exactly the norm.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:42
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What I don’t get is that THX1138 is edited well and succeeds at being a 70s film for adults. American Graffiti is pretty competent too.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:00
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Maybe George was being a bit too ambitious with his ideas, riding off the high of THX and American Graffiti? And then he got overwhelmed as a result? Seems plausible.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:09
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Apparently Lucas did have problems with the original editor for Star Wars, so Hirsch, Chew, and Marcia Lucas were brought in as replacements.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:19
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Sodomy Hussein posted:FWIW I think people also like to carry water for the idea that George was some unproven filmmaker at this point. He got to do this because of American Graffiti, which probably 0.1% of Star Wars fans know anything about Besides fans’ ignorance of American Graffiti and THX 1138, the ‘editing myth’ is also dependent on the notion that the prequels are badly edited, when they simply aren’t. On top of this, the Disney films have something close to objectively bad editing, and fans don’t care.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:35
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I think TLJ is the only Disney SW film that George openly commented on in positive light, saying it was beautifully made. [edit] He hasn't publicly spoke about TROS yet... but he did skip the premiere, so lol.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:39
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Lucas does not seem like a JJ fan and in that way he's all of us
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Jan 2, 2020 00:41
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teagone posted:I think TLJ is the only Disney SW film that George openly commented on in positive light, saying it was beautifully made. rogue one's the only one that got a positive comment, actually. beautifully made is up there with TFA's 'it's what the fans want' as far as backhanded compliments go
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Jan 2, 2020 00:41
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I forget Rogue One exists at times, because it's so forgettable.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:45
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Pollyanna posted:I think we just have to come to terms with the fact that there's a lot of different people who like Star Wars for a lot of different reasons, and that we're trying to make singular movies that appeal to all of those people and failing at that. One Star Wars fan likes sci-fi, one likes the Jedi/Force, one likes brainless pew pew, one likes good storytelling, one likes high-criticality avant garde films ala Cannes/Sundance, one just wants to post on Twitter about how much they cried and use dumb hashtags. The movies are currently trying to appeal to all of those fans. The Lucas episodes had all those things. You're saying we have to realize it's just not possible to create a sci-fi film with great action and storytelling and cinematic quality et cetera, but that's what already happened between one and six times in Star Wars alone. The movies currently have no story to tell of their own, and are heavily influenced by market research and studio guidance. They are a dog that has elected to subsist on its own poop.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:19
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In retrospect they probably should have done a loving first draft of the ST. Looking at it from this point makes it painfully obvious to me that a far more compelling story could have been told with Finn and Kylo Ren as mirrors of each other. Two abused kids raised to be soldiers in the evil empire choosing different paths.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:20
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homullus posted:The Lucas episodes had all those things. quote:good storytelling, one likes high-criticality avant garde films ala Cannes/Sundance lol
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Jan 2, 2020 02:21
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When was the last time you watched Attack of the Clones?
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Jan 2, 2020 02:26
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The big problem with the sequels isn't that they didn't have a plan for them, it's that they did. Disney wanted certain things out of them, and they ran roughshod over any creative vision from the films' writers and directors in pursuit of their own. People didn't like that the Episode 1 opening crawl mentioned taxes, so the sequel trilogy has zero mention of politics of any kind at any point. Kylo usurps Snoke and tries to get Rey to join him and we have to just understand that he's evil based on imagery alone because nothing about the context otherwise suggests evil. Did the writers choose to hamstring the narrative in this way? No, it's obviously a Disney mandate. Luke says lightsabers are good because a scene in a previous movie where Luke treated a lightsaber disrespectfully gave people bad tummyfeels and Disney said it had to be walked back. There were pre-release leaks that they'd tried a bunch of different endings and went with the one that tested best, and these leaks came from people who otherwise described the movie accurately. The idea that the movies should have been planned in advance is not only dumb but completely irrelevant
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Jan 2, 2020 02:41
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2house2fly posted:The big problem with the sequels isn't that they didn't have a plan for them, it's that they did. Disney wanted certain things out of them, and they ran roughshod over any creative vision from the films' writers and directors in pursuit of their own. People didn't like that the Episode 1 opening crawl mentioned taxes, so the sequel trilogy has zero mention of politics of any kind at any point. Kylo usurps Snoke and tries to get Rey to join him and we have to just understand that he's evil based on imagery alone because nothing about the context otherwise suggests evil. Well that and he's still shooting down the escaping transports.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:43
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2house2fly posted:The big problem with the sequels isn't that they didn't have a plan for them, it's that they did. Disney wanted certain things out of them, and they ran roughshod over any creative vision from the films' writers and directors in pursuit of their own. People didn't like that the Episode 1 opening crawl mentioned taxes, so the sequel trilogy has zero mention of politics of any kind at any point. Kylo usurps Snoke and tries to get Rey to join him and we have to just understand that he's evil based on imagery alone because nothing about the context otherwise suggests evil. Did the writers choose to hamstring the narrative in this way? No, it's obviously a Disney mandate. Luke says lightsabers are good because a scene in a previous movie where Luke treated a lightsaber disrespectfully gave people bad tummyfeels and Disney said it had to be walked back. There were pre-release leaks that they'd tried a bunch of different endings and went with the one that tested best, and these leaks came from people who otherwise described the movie accurately. The idea that the movies should have been planned in advance is not only dumb but completely irrelevant Focus testing the ending seems like not having a plan at all. Except for the marketing plans, obv.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:50
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Maxwell Lord posted:Well that and he's still shooting down the escaping transports. The Resistance are contras.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Resistance are contras. Killing the unarmed/helpless is a war crime.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:59
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Maxwell Lord posted:Killing the unarmed/helpless is a war crime. They are not surrendering; they are performing a tactical withdrawal to a more easily-defensible fortified position, to arm themselves with more powerful weaponry and call for more forces. Kylo does order his troops to take no prisoners later, which is an Earth war crime. But it’s also gratuitous/irrelevant because this is never announced to the Resistance, and the Resistance doesn’t ever attempt to surrender.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:27
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teagone posted:I forget Rogue One exists at times, because it's so forgettable. That may be, but the look of the thing is great. Even when the focus is clearly in one spot there's attention to the geometry that pulls you into the shot. Pulls me in, anyway.    
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Jan 2, 2020 03:28
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Strep Vote posted:Focus testing the ending seems like not having a plan at all. Except for the marketing plans, obv.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:40
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Strep Vote posted:In retrospect they probably should have done a loving first draft of the ST. Looking at it from this point makes it painfully obvious to me that a far more compelling story could have been told with Finn and Kylo Ren as mirrors of each other. Two abused kids raised to be soldiers in the evil empire choosing different paths. One thing I have a problem with when it comes to criticism of the ST and to a lesser extent the PT is that, fundamentally, it comes down to "I wish the story were a different story." That's valid in some sense, and I'll admit to having done it myself, but that has less to do with their merits as films and more to do with what we desire to see in a created world that we like. There are more than enough aspects to criticize in any Star Wars film without drawing from that well, and it's a new issue in the field of criticism that simply doesn't apply to adaptations or single films. As "cinematic universes" become the rule rather than the exception, it's a valid direction for criticism to go, but it's different from film criticism in general.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:49
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Note: the fact that Kylo needed to declare “no quarter“ to Hux means that such orders were not already in effect. So the Resistance could have just surrendered at any point during the space chase and ended the whole thing. Episode 9 could have been The Trial of Leia Organa, a space legal drama.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Note: the fact that Kylo needed to declare “no quarter“ to Hux means that such orders were not already in effect. So the Resistance could have just surrendered at any point during the space chase and ended the whole thing. I hadn't thought of this. Snoke saying he wants to destroy "hope" in the galaxy suggests he wants his takeover to be so complete that there isn't even a possibility of a new Rebel Alliance forming, so I assumed he wanted to destroy the Resistance down to the last man. But yeah he probably would have accepted a surrender, as that would have accomplished the same thing- possibly even more so. He didn't seem to feel the same way about Luke though; upon learning that Luke was basically no threat to him he still decided he'd go kill him
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Jan 2, 2020 03:59
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teagone posted:I forget Rogue One exists at times, because it's so forgettable. It’s the best Star Wars film since ‘83, I can understand why you forgot
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Jan 2, 2020 04:27
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Risky Bisquick posted:It’s the best Star Wars film since ‘83, I can understand why you forgot rogue one is better than return of the jedi
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Jan 2, 2020 04:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:They are not surrendering; they are performing a tactical withdrawal to a more easily-defensible fortified position, to arm themselves with more powerful weaponry and call for more forces. Even giving orders to brainwashed slave troops is pretty questionable. Kylo should have at least compensated them for time served and given them the option to leave before sending them down to the planet.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:39
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 04:21 |
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ungulateman posted:rogue one is better than return of the jedi Maybe true, but I treat the OT as a single movie. Rogue One is the grim dark Star Wars that it should be, plot armour be damned.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:42
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