|
RareAcumen posted:So it's Bastion but there's only conversations the entire time? bastion has standard hack-and-slash combat and no skill system what are you on about
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 04:48 |
|
|
razorrozar posted:bastion has standard hack-and-slash combat and no skill system what are you on about It's isometric. It's entirely possible they haven't played isometric RPGs and don't really have the usual frames of reference we associate with the genre
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:23
|
|
|
What's to be confused about? RPGs are like rocket launchers and in some shooters they are rad and in others they suck. I've personally never used an isometric RPG in any of the FPSes I've played. Still trying to wrap my head around how that would operate. I assume it's like a guided missile or something. But instead of camera view it's almost bird's eye view??
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:30
|
|
|
Dash Rendar posted:What's to be confused about? RPGs are like rocket launchers and in some shooters they are rad and in others they suck. I've personally never used an isometric RPG in any of the FPSes I've played. Still trying to wrap my head around how that would operate. I assume it's like a guided missile or something. But instead of camera view it's almost bird's eye view?? You use it to guide the rocket like in the first Metal Gear Solid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:46
|
|
|
Dash Rendar posted:What's to be confused about? RPGs are like rocket launchers and in some shooters they are rad and in others they suck. I've personally never used an isometric RPG in any of the FPSes I've played. Still trying to wrap my head around how that would operate. I assume it's like a guided missile or something. But instead of camera view it's almost bird's eye view?? Wait, is the RPG fifth person or sixth person perspective?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:54
|
|
|
Seems like the only thing not dragging down Wolfenstein: The New Colossus are the cutscenes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:56
|
|
|
RagnarokAngel posted:You use it to guide the rocket like in the first Metal Gear Solid. lmao, real talk: i never played MGS past the Psycho Mantis fight. i don't remember any rockets.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:59
|
|
|
I got a friend that loved skyrim, played 500 hours easily, but won't touch the witcher 3 cause there's no create-a-character option and he doesn't want to play as geralt. I think it's weird but I don't call him a broke sadbrain or anything stupid and petty like that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 02:35
|
|
|
RagnarokAngel posted:You use it to guide the rocket like in the first Metal Gear Solid.  This is technology we've had since 1999 at the latest
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 02:37
|
|
|
Olaf The Stout posted:I got a friend that loved skyrim, played 500 hours easily, but won't touch the witcher 3 cause there's no create-a-character option and he doesn't want to play as geralt. I think it's weird but I don't call him a broke sadbrain or anything stupid and petty like that. I mean, that was the main reason I didn't pick up The Witcher 3. A wide open sandbox RPG like that, I feel, should have a more blank-slate protagonist to make it easier to facilitate playing it in your own way with your own priorities. Not only do I not like Geralt, I also don't have the same attitude and approaches to things as Geralt, so there will always be that dichotomy. Much the same problem existed in Fallout 4, but in the Witcher it's much more pronounced. Of course, then it turned out the developer is awful and transphobic, so suddenly I didn't have to care if my hangups were keeping me from a good game anymore. So, thankyou CDPR for being shitheads, I guess?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 03:07
|
|
|
Olaf The Stout posted:I got a friend that loved skyrim, played 500 hours easily, but won't touch the witcher 3 cause there's no create-a-character option and he doesn't want to play as geralt. I think it's weird but I don't call him a broke sadbrain or anything stupid and petty like that. Geralt honestly is an unbelievably lame and lovely character. Not in the the intentional "so bad hes good" kinda way, hes just bland and boring as gently caress so I really can't blame your friend. A skyrim oc doesnt have much "character" but at least they can be how ever you imagine them, more or less.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 03:56
|
|
|
I can't hate Geralt too much because his grumpy rear end in a top hat energy very much reflects my own upon playing Witcher 3
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 04:05
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I mean, that was the main reason I didn't pick up The Witcher 3. A wide open sandbox RPG like that, I feel, should have a more blank-slate protagonist to make it easier to facilitate playing it in your own way with your own priorities. Not only do I not like Geralt, I also don't have the same attitude and approaches to things as Geralt, so there will always be that dichotomy. Much the same problem existed in Fallout 4, but in the Witcher it's much more pronounced. I found Witcher's constraints much more tolerable than Fallout 4's. With Witcher you kinda need to get on board with the fact that you are playing as a specific character, with a restricted range of responses to any given situation. Fallout gives you a character creator, and generally has a real wide variety of responses to a situation, but also you're locked into being real concerned about Sean. And it grated.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 04:29
|
|
|
Patrick Spens posted:With Witcher you kinda need to get on board with the fact that you are playing as a specific character, with a restricted range of responses to any given situation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 04:41
|
|
|
Ciri is cooler than Geralt.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 04:51
|
|
|
monster boy and the cursed kingdom is charming and all but its metroidvania elements really aren't doing it any favors, the map is very large and you are given very little indication as to whether or not you missed a chest or a door or an invisible wall
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 05:02
|
|
|
Eh some of the best open world games of this generation (Spider-man, Horizon) have you play a fixed character. I don't think I've ever seen a character creator in a game as a plus. And playing a blank slate character in the Witcher world would be way more boring than playing someone who has a past and previous relationships to draw conflict and plot on. Anyway for actual content, I'm playing a weird first person dungeon crawler called Zanki Zero, a game where you characters die repeatedly, but get stronger against whatever killed them. The game even keeps track of all the things that you've died to and the bonuses (typically improved defenses to them) you get. It's surprisingly fun. Except for the fact that there are shigabane (that's what these bonuses are called) related to dying with certain status effects - a few varieties of poison, stench afflictions, injury, etc. These are completely random to get from certain attacks, so essentially to get them you have to hope that an enemy's attack hits you with the status, before you die and have to reload and try again. It can be a real along trying to get some of them. Morpheus has a new favorite as of 05:05 on Jan 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 05:02
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:Eh some of the best open world games of this generation (Spider-man, Horizon) have you play a fixed character. I don't think I've ever seen a character creator in a game as a plus. And playing a blank slate character in the Witcher world would be way more boring than playing someone who has a past and previous relationships to draw conflict and plot on. To each their own IMO. I'm not creative at all which is why I keep steering towards games with established characters in the first place. If you're not going to do that, then the (yes I know older games did this I can't think of any right now) Persona 5 model of just giving you a few responses works fine. I'd much prefer that than DQ11 just having your character never really talk but everyone still gets an idea of what they mean like you're doing a silent run of Telltale's The Walking Dead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 05:08
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:Eh some of the best open world games of this generation (Spider-man, Horizon) have you play a fixed character. I don't think I've ever seen a character creator in a game as a plus. And playing a blank slate character in the Witcher world would be way more boring than playing someone who has a past and previous relationships to draw conflict and plot on. I think open world action games like that are different, because they are very driven by being a specific character, that character just needs to make sense for what the core gameplay ends up being. Think of Sleeping Dogs' Wei Shen; the game lets you do a bunch of crazy poo poo, but it all makes sense as stuff Wei Shen would do (because he's a loving lunatic). It's what GTAIV failed at, they made a player character that just wouldn't willingly do any of the core gameplay loop. But an open world RPG is different in my book, because they aren't typically character-driven, they've typically been very blank-slate because you can build and play your character in so many different ways. Your take on the Dragonborn is fundamentally different from mine, because the game provides nothing to guide it and so we decide ourselves. It exists in a different space to me, and I can't judge them on the same metrics. Because I figure it'll come up: I do not see Breath of the Wild as an open world RPG, I see it as a (mediocre) Legend of Zelda game, which exists in yet another distinct space.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 05:13
|
|
|
Yeah going back to Skyrim vs. Witcher I don't consider them anything alike even if they have superficial similarities and are both nebulously categorized as "RPGs". Totally different priorities, including how they want the player to express themselves, so it's not that weird for somebody to prefer one over the other.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 09:35
|
|
|
 for anyone making GBS threads on fallout 4
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 14:19
|
|
|
I think the fundamental disconnect here is who's story it is. With a pre-set character, you need to buy into that character and understand that, while you may control its decisions going forward, they have a past and existing personality, both of which will inform the decisions you are given to make. With a blank slate, your character has a rudimentary past, so you can project onto it what you want within the limits set by the game. The problems with pre-set characters are that, if you don't like the character, the game won't click for you, and if the character's actions are at odds with its story, it will take your audience right out of the experience. The plus side is that the game can tell a much deeper story, since it doesn't have to account for each and every permutation of person in its choices. Disco Elysium falls in this category, so if someone doesn't want to play a middle aged drunk man, well, they're out of luck. On the other hand, the story of the game wouldn't work with any other character, since all of the politics and the main mystery of the game are a backdrop to the real story, of finding out who this guy is and who he can be. The story and writing is deeply personal to his character, so slotting in anyone other than him wouldn't work. The problems with blank slates are that it becomes exponentially difficult to tell a deeper story, and if you don't write choices that encompass every conceivable choice (or no choice at all; see any blank slate game that sidesteps sexuality by ignoring it), the game will grate on at least some of your audience. Fallout 4 is the prime example, but Outer Worlds is fresher for me. Early game spoilers: There is a group of people living in a run down botany laboratory. They keep the land fertile enough to grow food by grinding up corpses for fertilizer. All of the dialogue choices for the protagonist is that this is varying shades of awful, whereas in real life this is what I want done with my body after all usable organs have been donated. That was the first crack in the game's armor for me, and what made me realize that this wasn't going to be the second coming of New Vegas it was hyped to be. Not to sound like some piece of trash Moralist, but it's okay to not like a game for any reason, including lack of character options. That said, I understand why ZA/UM didn't allow any other playable character other than their pre-set detective, because even changing his sex would change the meaning of the game at a fundamental level. They made the right character for the story they wanted to tell. The thing to acknowledge is that it's his story. As an aside, that level of separation helped me enjoy DE more than if he was a blank slate. It let me make choices for him that I otherwise wouldn't have made, which tended to be the wilder and more fun options, since I tend to default to playing a generally good person (minus the rampant murder in most open world games).
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 16:00
|
|
|
What this reminded me of is how much of a void of personality that Adam Jensen is. Aside from the few arguments he has with Pritchard they might've as well have a character creator instead, and even those interactions did more to shine a light on Pritchard than on himself. Also the way everyone just can't stop moving during conversations is really annoying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 17:52
|
|
|
DOOM 3 is certainly a game from 16 years ago, and that's mostly fine except this shotgun it's the worst I've ever used in a game, it tickles enemies, does inconsistent damage, sometimes takes FIVE shots to kill an Imp, it just sucks so drat much
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 18:26
|
|
|
so it's the Quake 1 shotgun?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 18:30
|
|
|
Dash Rendar posted:so it's the Quake 1 shotgun? The Quake 1 shotgun has more range, whereas the Doom 3 shotgun is the typical short range weapon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 18:34
|
|
|
dang. good to know. i finally picked up DOOM 3 in the last Steam sale and was going to give it a whirl.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 18:39
|
|
|
OutOfPrint posted:
Whew, that's a relief.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 19:15
|
|
|
The Chad Jihad posted:Halo Reach has you fight alongside spartans sometimes but gives them the exact same AI as the regular marines so they're borderline worthless. Meanwhile especially on legendary a high ranking elite is a vastly more impressive than your super soldier allies This was a way back but every time I replay Reach and get to the jetpack marines, I always stop and wait for the one smug one to go "WELCOME TO THE BULLFROGS" because it's a 50/50 he'll then immediately jetpack away, miss the platform he's aiming for, and die in five seconds
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 19:26
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Whew, that's a relief. I only wrote that to clarify where I stand, since that screed I wrote could be interpreted as supporting the opposite argument. This is the internet; I'd rather write the obvious than leave it to interpretation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
Related to this weird conversation you can play as a shootwoman in Halo Reach
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
OutOfPrint posted:I think the fundamental disconnect here is who's story it is. With a pre-set character, you need to buy into that character and understand that, while you may control its decisions going forward, they have a past and existing personality, both of which will inform the decisions you are given to make. With a blank slate, your character has a rudimentary past, so you can project onto it what you want within the limits set by the game. I agree completely. When I choose to play a RPG style (or even survival style) game, I want full control over who my character is and what my character's reactions are. Even though I myself am not, I generally choose to play females if the option is available. I spend hours in games like KotOR, Skyrim, and Fallout, but have no interest in the Witcher series. I play ARK, Rust, and Conan Exiles, but am not going to get The Forest. Having a predefined character as the only option for play just ruins the RPG experience for me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 19:49
|
|
|
I identified strongly with Geralt because I also could barely give a poo poo about the peasants in the lovely kingdom that were probably going to stiff me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
Dash Rendar posted:dang. good to know. i finally picked up DOOM 3 in the last Steam sale and was going to give it a whirl. I enjoyed DOOM 3 quite a bit, even if it was a departure from 1 &2. I had never played a survival horror type game before that, so it was a new and cool experience for me. Also, the appearance of the Demon, was one of my favorite game experiences ever. I had exactly the response they wanted me to have as it was happening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 20:02
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:This was a way back but every time I replay Reach and get to the jetpack marines, I always stop and wait for the one smug one to go "WELCOME TO THE BULLFROGS" because it's a 50/50 he'll then immediately jetpack away, miss the platform he's aiming for, and die in five seconds This is something for the PYF Little Things thread  You'd think they would cheat with the AI to ensure that at the very least the jetpackers can successfully jetpack but nope
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 20:11
|
|
|
I think the problem with story driven games is more than the fact that most of them forcing you to play as a man. The deeper issue is they're all forcing you to play as the same man. So many games end up being interactive lovely prestige dramas about a gruff man reluctantly doing whatever it takes to get things done. Somewhere along the way they decided to make generic hard man also be a dad but it still ends up being essentially the same same story with the same character. BioShock infinite, the last of us, and God of war all basically have the same protagonist. Even Fallout 4 which let's you make your own character is clearly written around you playing as the decorated veteran and not his lawyer wife.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 21:17
|
|
|
OutOfPrint posted:There is a group of people living in a run down botany laboratory. They keep the land fertile enough to grow food by grinding up corpses for fertilizer. All of the dialogue choices for the protagonist is that this is varying shades of awful, whereas in real life this is what I want done with my body after all usable organs have been donated. Honestly this is how I feel about all dialog choices in games. Rarely do they ever include the exact thing I would want to say (not that that's possible; the best they can do is cover a few broad strokes worth of options) so most choices are picking whatever is the "least wrong" for how I want to proceed. The more I have to make dialog choices, the less connected to the character I feel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
rodbeard posted:I think the problem with story driven games is more than the fact that most of them forcing you to play as a man. The deeper issue is they're all forcing you to play as the same man. So many games end up being interactive lovely prestige dramas about a gruff man reluctantly doing whatever it takes to get things done. Somewhere along the way they decided to make generic hard man also be a dad but it still ends up being essentially the same same story with the same character. BioShock infinite, the last of us, and God of war all basically have the same protagonist. Even Fallout 4 which let's you make your own character is clearly written around you playing as the decorated veteran and not his lawyer wife. It's gotten to the point that I can have random Nolan North/Troy Baker lines pop into my head and not know at all which game they're from.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 21:49
|
|
|
We I play an open world game I just slam the default character option because very rarely does it matter for anything ever. You could spend 2 hours lovingly moving face sliders but your person is going to be wearing a helmet, seldom gas voice lines, and you'll be shoehorned into dialogue choices that are mostly "pet puppy" "ignore puppy" "kick puppy" And then at the end of the game you'll save the kingdom from the mutant dragon demon and also be the leader of every guild ever and the coolest person And sure there's exceptions to this but that's what it feels like
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 22:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 04:48 |
|
|
Starting to remember what put me off Burnout games years back as I'm getting into Marked Man events and half remember, half realize, that their mechanic is really just "every so often the game takes away control and rushes you straight towards a wall." Mario games don't get universal acclaim for their level design by randomly triggering jumps into the lava pits late game, just sayin.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 22:01
|
|
