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LCARS is just another example of the brilliant production design on TNG. The colorful interface looks like it could easily be descendant from the colored jewel buttons on TOS, but with a much more modern and timeless take.
bull3964 fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 17:29
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We did see the LCARS have displays change over the buttons occasionally, just yeah, not very often because it needed FX and stuff. But enough to make it clear that it is a touchscreen. One element I really liked was the continuous blank panel across the hallways and you could just tap anywhere to bring up a bit of control or look at something. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 17:29
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Brawnfire posted:I am kind of curious if there's a user interface we haven't even thought of yet, like something so out of left field or fringe physics/materials science that we can't even posit its technological use at present. What if the next "button" is something incomprehensibly more straightforward and elegant than our clumsy meeting of the physical and electronic at present? I don't even know what to suggest, because anything that I can think of has invariably already been thought of today, let alone the 24th century. Psychically-controlled interfaces is really the only pie-in-the-sky one I can think of I'm sad the Minority Report/Microsoft Kinect-style of UI/UX never really took off past conceptual stages 
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Jan 2, 2020 17:33
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Brawnfire posted:I am kind of curious if there's a user interface we haven't even thought of yet, like something so out of left field or fringe physics/materials science that we can't even posit its technological use at present. What if the next "button" is something incomprehensibly more straightforward and elegant than our clumsy meeting of the physical and electronic at present? I don't even know what to suggest, because anything that I can think of has invariably already been thought of today, let alone the 24th century. Someday you'll be able to plug your wang directly into the computer and spin it 
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Jan 2, 2020 17:35
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bull3964 posted:LCARS is just another example of the brillian production design on TNG. The colorful interface looks like it could easily be descendant from the colored jewel buttons on TOS, but with a much more modern and timeless take. I agree wholly with this, and I like how you pointed out that design lineage, because it makes the color choices make so much more sense and helps explain why it felt so natural as a Federation progression. They definitely took the screaming oranges and reds and electric blues of the TOS era, turned down the saturation, and made it into shapes on a screen. Similar to the uniform treatment. I would love to have heard some of the conversations those loving nerds were having in the design room when TNG's look was being developed.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:37
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The Bloop posted:Someday you'll be able to plug your wang directly into the computer and spin it just lol if you don't already do this
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Jan 2, 2020 17:37
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The Bloop posted:Someday you'll be able to plug your wang directly into the computer and spin it and also have access to the United States nuclear codes for whatever reason.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:37
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LCARS is a sci-fi artist's attempt to approximate a future interface, and it's a pretty good job. But said sci-fi artist (Okuda) is not a HID/UIX expert. I'm not sure what a reasonable future interface might look like, but a lot will depend on what technologies are commonplace. I think one of the most simple and successful interfaces of all time is the automobile (steering wheel, pedals for acceleration and breaking). The keyboard is interesting, because on the surface it appears very strange, with a non-intuitive layout and some strange arrangements, but because of legacy and inertia it has become (and will continue to be) the standard. Its major advantage is its flexibility and, thanks to it being ubiquitous, economies of scale make it very cheap. A lot more thinking has gone into replacing the mouse than the keyboard. I think we may be stuck with them, for better or worse.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:39
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Psychically-controlled interfaces is really the only pie-in-the-sky one I can think of Yeah I was considering like, some sort of switch that is in a quantum superimposition of on/off until you think that it's on or off, at which point it "is" on or off because you consider it to be so and, thus, observe that it is. And I think the crazy gesture stuff is still in the cards, it just has to work--and work without any extra gadgets. The moment I can easily and without a thought control a device in my life with *merely* a gesture is when I'll happily adopt it. Until then, it's extra bullshit that hilariously fails to work nearly as often as it works.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:41
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Brawnfire posted:I am kind of curious if there's a user interface we haven't even thought of yet, like something so out of left field or fringe physics/materials science that we can't even posit its technological use at present. What if the next "button" is something incomprehensibly more straightforward and elegant than our clumsy meeting of the physical and electronic at present? I don't even know what to suggest, because anything that I can think of has invariably already been thought of today, let alone the 24th century. Snow Cone Capone posted:Psychically-controlled interfaces is really the only pie-in-the-sky one I can think of What I kinda imagine is that once we get decent sensing on micro-motions of the hand we'll probably use the hand like a combination mouse/touchpad/gesture right where it is. Raising your hand to actually point at a control or touch it is way too much effort and way too slow; just make a tiny motion where it is and see controls move across the projected screen, the same way a mouse controls a cursor. Or gestures flip through the interface, even rapid miniaturised sign language to type. We could end up looking at screens in our virtual pop-up glass displays and controlling them with microscopic hand gestures an inch in size while leaving our hands by our side whilst we sit or wander around. We might end up able to do that kind of sensing with monitoring of the nerves and muscles in the hand - maybe to the point where we can just slip on a bracelet. Enhance it with elements like eye tracking so you can literally pick what item you're operating on with a glance and a finger-flick. And once we do get decent glasses (or more - contact lenses, eventually maybe even optic nerve injection) and an interface that lets us control it, the entire concept of having these big workstations on a bridge of a ship or something is just out the window. Every worker would just be seated in a chair and viewing their own complete 360 degree landscape of information directly relevant to their own position, with other personnel's voices and positions arrayed virtually. A future bridge might just be rows of comfy chairs and that's it. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 17:44
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ashpanash posted:LCARS is a sci-fi artist's attempt to approximate a future interface, and it's a pretty good job. But said sci-fi artist (Okuda) is not a HID/UIX expert. That's interesting. I've seen some alternate propositions for alphanumeric input and they almost always suck rear end and are slow. The worst one I remember was that one Apple product I believe that required you to use one of those touch circles and a nested menu to input alphanumeric characters. Even the person demonstrating how fast and intuitive it was took forever.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:45
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I will point out that even though it's never mentioned on screen, the consoles on TNG have haptics as stated in the Tech Manual.quote:Also incorporated into this layer is a transducer matrix that provides tactile and auditory feedback to the operator, indicating that a particular control surface address has been activated.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:50
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I mean we might just be able to think commands. We actually do this just a little bit already: https://techcrunch.com/2010/12/20/m...ind-okie-dokie/
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Jan 2, 2020 17:51
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*BEEP-BLEEP* switching from Beep-Bleep and Startling Vibration Template to Bleep-Deep and Delayed Buzz Template *BLEEP-DEEP*
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Jan 2, 2020 17:54
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Many things will get interfaces that are simpler (look at today, we have lots of things that can be controlled by voice) but the people designing those things and/or those who are operating research equipment, operating a power plant, or navigating a vessel will always have to use a more complicated and robust interface.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:57
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Brawnfire posted:I am kind of curious if there's a user interface we haven't even thought of yet, like something so out of left field or fringe physics/materials science that we can't even posit its technological use at present. What if the next "button" is something incomprehensibly more straightforward and elegant than our clumsy meeting of the physical and electronic at present? I don't even know what to suggest, because anything that I can think of has invariably already been thought of today, let alone the 24th century. It's like all ya scrubs never watched Barclay improve the 1701D's computer in "The nth Degree", where we learn about two new types of interfaces: Iconographic input interface + alphanumeric input interface (ye old keyboard) --> neural scan interface For my 2 cents, the only obvious and predictable advances are in UI/UX. Look at how much easier touchscreen phones have gotten to use in the last decade. The only reason I can think of why this might not be a good answer is "have we tapped out the incremental improvements that can be made to mobile UI/UX"?
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Jan 2, 2020 17:59
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So what do you think the likelihood is that Discovery will take the opportunity to show us crazy new future tech? Or will it just be more of the same format but more dystopian?
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Jan 2, 2020 17:59
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Admiralty Flag posted:For my 2 cents, the only obvious and predictable advances are in UI/UX. Look at how much easier touchscreen phones have gotten to use in the last decade. The only reason I can think of why this might not be a good answer is "have we tapped out the incremental improvements that can be made to mobile UI/UX"? The thing that strikes me most about touchscreen UIs is how almost all of them duplicate the standard QWERTY keyboard, just onscreen.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:00
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ashpanash posted:The thing that strikes me most about touchscreen UIs is how almost all of them duplicate the standard QWERTY keyboard, just onscreen. That said, I don't actually type on it. I've been using swyping for like 7 years and I can't imagine going back on a single handed device.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:02
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bull3964 posted:I will point out that even though it's never mentioned on screen, the consoles on TNG have haptics as stated in the Tech Manual. In voyager LCARS panels can be set to full-on blind person tactile interface at one point.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:03
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Drink-Mix Man posted:So what do you think the likelihood is that Discovery will take the opportunity to show us crazy new future tech? Or will it just be more of the same format but more dystopian? Future tech should at that point just be near Culture level inscrutable boxes that Do Things I suppose the Federation does keep things "dumber" than they should be either out of distrust of automation or just because humanoids like to shout orders and push buttons
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Jan 2, 2020 18:04
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The Bloop posted:I mean we might just be able to think commands. Never noticed the little thrust he does when the tips touch.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:04
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MikeJF posted:In voyager LCARS panels can be set to full-on blind person tactile interface at one point. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean we have the technology today to create interfaces with electrostatic charges that you can feel with your fingers. With Star Trek's forcefield tech, it should be trivial to make an interface 3 dimensional and fully tactile.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:06
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If we could actually do the Tony Stark reaching inside the hologram thing, that would have some pretty cool applications.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:11
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The Bloop posted:Future tech should at that point just be near Culture level inscrutable boxes that Do Things
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Jan 2, 2020 18:13
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The Bloop posted:If we could actually do the Tony Stark reaching inside the hologram thing, that would have some pretty cool applications. Honestly, we have a lot of the pieces of the technology today. Augmented reality glasses would take care of the display aspect of things. Google's project Soli (the full sized version, not the shrunken down phone version) can detect tiny finger movements. At this point it's less about "can the technology do it" and more about "how do we develop standard APIs so that we can mate these interfaces to software and not make them one of a kind things."
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Jan 2, 2020 18:14
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Admiralty Flag posted:I'll revise my prediction and say that one thing we know devices will get better at is "type-ahead" technology, but a in a broader "work-ahead" sense. Using context clues and historical inputs, devices will get better and better at predicting what you want to do at any moment, until finally you end up with an LCARS interface that just says, "Press HOME to fire photon torpedoes at the Pakleds." Which will be the reason why you need ugly bags of mostly water in the decision loop, in case they've kidnapped Geordi again or whatever TVIV> Star Trek: Press HOME to fire photon torpedoes at the Pakleds
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Jan 2, 2020 18:21
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bull3964 posted:Honestly, we have a lot of the pieces of the technology today. Augmented reality glasses would take care of the display aspect of things. Google's project Soli (the full sized version, not the shrunken down phone version) can detect tiny finger movements. I mean yeah you can mostly do it now with AR/VR, but I think they were talking about being able to see the hologram in the "real world" sans any special equipment and just reach in and manipulate things the way Stark does in the MCU movies. vis:   (it is surprisingly difficult to find good gifs of him manipulating his holographic interface)
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Jan 2, 2020 18:22
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Angry_Ed posted:(it is surprisingly difficult to find good gifs of him manipulating his holographic interface) It really is.  I loved the one where he fit his arm into the holographic suit-arm and it reacted to him, but I couldn't find it.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:25
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The Bloop posted:I loved the one where he fit his arm into the holographic suit-arm and it reacted to him, but I couldn't find it. I was trying to find the one where he's designing the Mk. II and he just crumples up part of the design and throws it away like a piece of paper.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:26
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Writers like to treat free-floating holograms like they're just around the corner and near-future or even already here in high-tech places, but it's probably a long way away if ever, there's just not really any idea for how we'd do a proper detailed free-floating display that's not behind glass. Much more likely to happen anytime soon is an simple set of glasses with AR in them that can achieve basically the same effect to the user; pop them on and they overlay 'holograms' into your vision.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:33
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You just gotta make the air thicker.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:42
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Brawnfire posted:That's interesting. I've seen some alternate propositions for alphanumeric input and they almost always suck rear end and are slow. Please tell me this Onion joke didn't make it into reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
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Jan 2, 2020 18:45
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I give it about a decade before public spaces are haunted by Orlando Jones’ character from that lovely turn of the century Time Machine movie
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Jan 2, 2020 18:46
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Brawnfire posted:You just gotta make the air thicker. Basically. But my green laser pointer is visible in the regular air (although it has to be pretty dim) because it's powerful enough to ionize some of it. I mean, the real problem with holograms is that *light doesn't stop*, so you can't just have something floating in space that has boundaries. You can approximate it with a sort of 'screen' of dust or dense/cold air but at that point you're just wasting time/money/effort when a monitor will do just fine. From what I know of optics (which isn't a whole lot, my focus is more on particle physics), there just isn't any way to make a free-floating hologram like in the movies.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:48
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The closest we have right now is that we can shoot every pixel of air with enough lasers from all different angles to make it glow with a tiny point of superheated air, but that's fairly limited.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:57
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The Bloop posted:It used to only be three, now it takes ten or twelve.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:01
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There's always going to be innovations possible for UI devices, and even if we get a hang over working with gestures in empty space, it's harder to get precision just holding your hand in midair than it is when there's a mechanical device that you can rest your hand on and know when you're pushing every which way. Touchscreens and other non-haptic interfaces always have the issue of not knowing when you're doing input by accident, or when they computer has momentarily frozen. In my lifetime, mice have lost their balls and grown wheels, and the history of videogames has had a lot of shifting with UI devices, and even though flightsticks are dying and most controllers have settled on the same sort of layout, there's still people trying to make tweaks and additions. Check out this orb. The Bloop posted:Future tech should at that point just be near Culture level inscrutable boxes that Do Things I'll fight to the death against that, although that definitely is the desired end goal of companies that want to totally control their products after sale and shut out users from more complex utilization.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'll fight to the death against that, although that definitely is the desired end goal of companies that want to totally control their products after sale and shut out users from more complex utilization. Realistically, barring a conversion to fully automated luxury gay space communism or some other post scarcity society, it will happen just like that. It almost has to. As components get smaller, denser, and infinitely more complex, no one of going to know how to deal with base components unless it's their job. Just like a car mechanic had to rely on the onboard computers to tell them what's wrong on a cutting edge car. They don't just dig in with a socket set anymore. A lot of things will have to be manufactured/ sold/ replaced on the assembly level and their actual internal functioning will be completely mysterious and magical unless you have an advanced degree and an electron microscope. Even then, as more things are designed by iterative AI, there may be zero human beings on the planet who truly grok how they operate at a fundamental level.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:20
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The Bloop posted:Realistically, barring a conversion to fully automated luxury gay space communism or some other post scarcity society, it will happen just like that. A great example of this is how many $1000 TVs get binned because a $.003 SMT capacitor failed My current living room TV is a top-end plasma from 2009 that still looks fantastic and probably cost $3k+ when it first hit the market; for that one I didn't even have to replace a capacitor since it was a redundancy, I just flicked it off with a soldering iron and it's been working flawlessly ever since  e: really the most painful part was dragging it off the street and into my car, the thing literally weighs 100lb
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Jan 2, 2020 19:23
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