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 Madkal posted:I'm pretty sure there is a saying about cowards who hide behind a flag. There's a quote by Asimov that fits the current situation pretty well. "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 19:47
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How blatant was the assassination of Diem in South Vietnam at the time, was it as obvious then as it is now that it was us
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Jan 3, 2020 19:47
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i'm seriously so depressed about this right now. Of the 7 guys in my HS graduating class who deployed, 3 died in combat, one committed suicide and two others appear to have serious drug addiction
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Jan 3, 2020 19:50
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Is it possible to die of irony poisoning? Donnerberg posted:There's a quote by Asimov that fits the current situation pretty well. "The competent use violence much earlier than that."  (I appreciate the sentiment, but that saying always bugs me for that reason.)
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Jan 3, 2020 19:50
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VitalSigns posted:How blatant was the assassination of Diem in South Vietnam at the time, was it as obvious then as it is now that it was us This was pre-Watergate and Pentagon Papers
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Jan 3, 2020 19:51
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VitalSigns posted:How blatant was the assassination of Diem in South Vietnam at the time, was it as obvious then as it is now that it was us Diem was assassinated by South Vietnamese generals we told them we wouldn't get in their way.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:51
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Flip Yr Wig posted:I guess I should add to this that we're still a violent culture that enjoys the suffering of foreigners. We've just lost the desire to embark on large campaigns that kill Our Troops for no obvious reason. We've never loved big foreign wars, excluding the Spanish-American War era, but we've always enjoyed bullying "minor" nations. If anything we might still be slightly more constrained than the days of gunboat diplomacy and war with Mexico.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:52
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Flip Yr Wig posted:I guess I should add to this that we're still a violent culture that enjoys the suffering of foreigners. We've just lost the desire to embark on large campaigns that kill Our Troops for no obvious reason. The shift to an all volunteer army also means there are no really effective means of mass political action stopping the war. It used to be that the military needed the populous to conduct the war and now they don’t. We’ve been at war for but a few months this century and to many it seems impossible to stop.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:56
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Trabisnikof posted:The shift to an all volunteer army also means there are no really effective means of mass political action stopping the war. It used to be that the military needed the populous to conduct the war and now they don’t. The brilliance of using our National Guard for foreign warfighting was to eliminate the need for the draft.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:57
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Ralepozozaxe posted:How long before Trump finds out wars aren’t fun and tries to (ineffectively) weasel out of the situation he made. Arguably, this mess is the inevitable eventual consequence of Trump's posturing, saber rattling, and walking back of Obama's detente policies. The actual details of which specific action lit the tinderbox is pretty moot. If it wasn't this, it would have been something else eventually. It's the building of the situation in the first place that was the real irresponsible act on his part. But good luck using that as an actual political wedge against him...
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Jan 3, 2020 19:59
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Trabisnikof posted:The shift to an all volunteer army also means there are no really effective means of mass political action stopping the war. It used to be that the military needed the populous to conduct the war and now they don’t. If anything positive comes of this it would be pushing candidates especially on the left to end the neverending wars. I think most people have war fatigue at this point, especially in the Middle East.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:01
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Did anyone at the top levels of our government stop to think that this could induce some IS affiliated group of nutbars to attack some American ally or us ourselves just to stir the pot? Because if I was one of those knucklehead caliphate monsters, that would definitely be crossing my mind as an option right now. I mean how easy would it be for US to blame that on Iran and make things even worse..
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Jan 3, 2020 20:03
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Delthalaz posted:Shocking radio silence from anti-imperialist Glenn Greenwald. I’m looking forward to a scorching hot take Edit https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1213172041215549452 Wait a minute, he called it "one of the most reckless uses of military force in years"? Just to make you look like a dumbass?? Dang there are truly no depths to his depravity. T. Bombastus fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 20:04
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Did anyone at the top levels of our government stop to think that this could induce some IS affiliated group of nutbars to attack some American ally or us ourselves just to stir the pot? Because if I was one of those knucklehead caliphate monsters, that would definitely be crossing my mind as an option right now. I mean how easy would it be for US to blame that on Iran and make things even worse.. They've replaced everyone who thinks because they kept asking why Trump was doing things.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:05
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Did anyone at the top levels of our government stop to think that this could induce some IS affiliated group of nutbars to attack some American ally or us ourselves just to stir the pot? They did not.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:05
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GG speaks! https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1213172041215549452
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Jan 3, 2020 20:05
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VitalSigns posted:How blatant was the assassination of Diem in South Vietnam at the time, was it as obvious then as it is now that it was us It was 100% approved by US intelligence but it wasn't our dudes doing the abducting and murdering
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Jan 3, 2020 20:06
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so NOW he doesnt like trump. good to know.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:06
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Did anyone at the top levels of our government stop to think that this could induce some IS affiliated group of nutbars to attack some American ally or us ourselves just to stir the pot? Because if I was one of those knucklehead caliphate monsters, that would definitely be crossing my mind as an option right now. I mean how easy would it be for US to blame that on Iran and make things even worse..
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Jan 3, 2020 20:06
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https://twitter.com/DanielDenvir/status/1212358722695188480 Check the date
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Jan 3, 2020 20:06
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KillHour posted:Normally, when we want someone dead, we do the same game everyone does - quietly assassinate them and deny knowledge. But Trump literally can't do that. His ego refuses to let him not take credit for anything. This. It’s what makes the purpose behind this way more obvious. If protecting Americans and stopping plans was the goal, then they’d kill him and not give away anything. Instead it’s blatant distraction propaganda, antagonism, and baby-dick gloating.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:07
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I think Greenwald's fooling himself if he thinks Trump actually ran an anti-militarism or anti-imperialist platform. It's swell that Trump criticized W's Iraq war, but that's a long way from not starting foolish wars himself.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:08
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Trump didn't win because he acted like he was antiwar (which he never really did he said he'd take Iraq's oil and murder terrorists' families) he won because he had R next to him name and you're always going to get about 46-48 percent of the vote as a Republican. It's obnoxious that pundits still act like Trump did anything special he got a lower share of the vote than Romney. Clinton lost the election Trump didn't win it.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:08
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I think Greenwald's fooling himself if he thinks Trump actually ran an anti-militarism or anti-imperialist platform. It's swell that Trump criticized W's Iraq war, but that's a long way from not starting foolish wars himself. I'll never understand it, "If I was president we'd have taken the oil!" and "I love nukes!" were like major tenants of his campaign rallies and things he'd bring up regularly during the debats, the nukes thing IIRC would was even in some ads for him.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:10
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Aramis posted:Arguably, this mess is the inevitable eventual consequence of Trump's posturing, saber rattling, and walking back of Obama's detente policies. The actual details of which specific action lit the tinderbox is pretty moot. If it wasn't this, it would have been something else eventually. It's the building of the situation in the first place that was the real irresponsible act on his part. I think he will get himself into a bad situation with this in which he will lose any form of public support. One of the few bright spots of his presidency was that he was fairly chickenshit about starting escalation with foes. He wanted to be seen as a tough guy but never had the stomach to do it. I’d love to hear how he was talked into doing it. Obviously he isn’t reading briefs nor has a real knowledge on the region or the ramifications. Someone pushed for this and sold Trump on it. Also watch next week when it becomes obvious that the public is against it and he made a mistake he will try walking it back.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:11
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When's Eddie Gallagher or Erik Prince gonna be made secretary of war and really get this Iran poo poo going? Donald the Dove, baby!
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Jan 3, 2020 20:11
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so NOW he doesnt like trump. good to know. According to that thread it is Hillary Clinton's fault Trump wants war in Iran.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:13
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Djarum posted:I think he will get himself into a bad situation with this in which he will lose any form of public support. One of the few bright spots of his presidency was that he was fairly chickenshit about starting escalation with foes. He wanted to be seen as a tough guy but never had the stomach to do it. He won't walk it back. He'll blame it on some aide, general or adviser and double down in the stupidest way somehow. But I agree on the "he got talked into it" part.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:14
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Groovelord Neato posted:Trump didn't win because he acted like he was antiwar (which he never really did he said he'd take Iraq's oil and murder terrorists' families) he won because he had R next to him name and you're always going to get about 46-48 percent of the vote as a Republican. It's obnoxious that pundits still act like Trump did anything special he got a lower share of the vote than Romney. Clinton lost the election Trump didn't win it. Most of the Republicans I've seen who are still pretending to be Serious Arguers have used "Hillary would have started a war with Iran", though. It's a cornerstone of what Very Serious Republicans believe. They'll abandon it, obviously, but it's BEEN important to them.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:14
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theflyingorc posted:Most of the Republicans I've seen who are still pretending to be Serious Arguers have used "Hillary would have started a war with Iran", though. Right but that's a very small number of Republican voters.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:15
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Djarum posted:I think he will get himself into a bad situation with this in which he will lose any form of public support. One of the few bright spots of his presidency was that he was fairly chickenshit about starting escalation with foes. He wanted to be seen as a tough guy but never had the stomach to do it. As leaky as the Trump White House is, we'll probably find out all the details in the next few days.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:15
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https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1213165862749908992 https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1213140151062253568 https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1087901201184755713
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Jan 3, 2020 20:16
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I think Greenwald's fooling himself if he thinks Trump actually ran an anti-militarism or anti-imperialist platform. It's swell that Trump criticized W's Iraq war, but that's a long way from not starting foolish wars himself. Yeah, he criticized W and Iraq because Trump's entire playbook is to attack everyone and everything all the time to make himself look superior. Anything anyone else does is bad and wrong and stupid, unlike the things Trump does, which are good and the best.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:16
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theflyingorc posted:Most of the Republicans I've seen who are still pretending to be Serious Arguers have used "Hillary would have started a war with Iran", though. Nothing is important to them. They just say things that will won them arguments. In this case, pointing out Hillary’s hawkishness was a good way to make her look bad. They don’t actually believe any of their arguments.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:17
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Tatsuta Age posted:When's Eddie Gallagher or Erik Prince gonna be made secretary of war and really get this Iran poo poo going? Donald the Dove, baby! Gallagher is too busy selling his Benghazi themed athleisure line.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:17
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Aramis posted:He won't walk it back. He'll blame it on some aide, general or adviser and double down in the stupidest way somehow. But I agree on the "he got talked into it" part. Eh when something hasn’t been popular especially with all of the base he tacts off. The last thing he wants to do is get stuck with something that will drag him down. I agree he won’t take any responsibility for it but he’ll run from it.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:17
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Neo Rasa posted:I'll never understand it, "If I was president we'd have taken the oil!" and "I love nukes!" were like major tenants of his campaign rallies and things he'd bring up regularly during the debats, the nukes thing IIRC would was even in some ads for him. One of his other campaign promises was to Bring Are Troops Home. He is large, he contains multitudes of cheeseburgers.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:18
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2020 loving sucks
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Jan 3, 2020 20:19
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T. Bombastus posted:getting mad as hell at glenn greenwald for how i imagine he'll react to this IDK — both sides are equally bad is a pretty scorching hot take after Trump unilaterally withdrew from the Obama-Iran deal and then personally decided to blow up Iran’s top military leader after he couldn’t get it up
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Jan 3, 2020 20:20
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Groovelord Neato posted:Diem was assassinated by South Vietnamese generals we told them we wouldn't get in their way. Yeah I know, but I count that as us doing it. If they needed our support and we said "yeah go ahead" that's the same as Kennedy pulling the trigger personally. And we were more active than that even, p sure we had already decided he needed to go and set about encouraging it rather than just being passive observers.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:21
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