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CarForumPoster posted:I dont know enough to have a worthwhile opinion on the right or wrongness of the matter but if he is in fact the head of the "Iranian CIA" it seems on its face the answer is a resounding "Yes!" And when combined with the fact that he was in country meeting with militia leaders at the time of the assassination, it seems like he was actively doing so at the time he was killed. Losing the head of the CIA would be just another week in Washington.
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Jan 3, 2020 16:05
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https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1213043729428340737
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Jan 3, 2020 16:06
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DrAlexanderTobacco posted:Not for me to speak to speak for glynnenstein but I inferred his comment to mean "Was this guy pivotal to some future action [that actually matters] against us that we have now thwarted decisively?" It is kind of hard to Note: this is not an endorsement of the methodology employed to off the guy. edit - comparing Soleimani to the head of a random US 3 letter agency is a very bad comparison edit 2 - i used a word that meant the opposite of what i wanted to say, because i am smart bewbies fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 16:10
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So, what, he’s the Iranian Zhukov?
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Jan 3, 2020 16:13
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Guess they got whatever to Aviano. https://twitter.com/CivMilAir/status/1213116088516562952
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Jan 3, 2020 16:16
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Captain von Trapp posted:If Mattis were living in Iran, directing the killing of Iranians, for years, and they blew him up… I'd have to say I couldn't blame them. Where does 'living in Iran' come into it? This guy wasn't living in America.
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Jan 3, 2020 16:23
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https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1213103431868661760
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Jan 3, 2020 16:28
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CarForumPoster posted:I dont know enough to have a worthwhile opinion on the right or wrongness of the matter but if he is in fact the head of the "Iranian CIA" it seems on its face the answer is a resounding "Yes!" And when combined with the fact that he was in country meeting with militia leaders at the time of the assassination, it seems like he was actively doing so at the time he was killed. We keep saying “militia leaders” in the US but those militias are an official part of the Iraqi military. Yes they’re “Iran affiliated” but as far as Iraq is concerned we just assassinated general in their “national guard” and a foreign dignitary. This was a really, really bad idea. If we want to play “he was a bad person!” games then we should have no problem with say Vietnam killing Kissinger at random when he visits say, idk Canada.
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Jan 3, 2020 16:46
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hobbesmaster posted:This was a really, really bad idea. If we want to play “he was a bad person!” games then we should have no problem with say Vietnam killing Kissinger at random when he visits say, idk Canada. wtf stop making trump’s strike sound good
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Jan 3, 2020 16:56
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Platystemon posted:wtf stop making trump’s strike sound good
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Jan 3, 2020 17:50
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hobbesmaster posted:We keep saying “militia leaders” in the US but those militias are an official part of the Iraqi military. Yes they’re “Iran affiliated” but as far as Iraq is concerned we just assassinated general in their “national guard” and a foreign dignitary.
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Jan 3, 2020 17:56
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No living US military leader or intelligence has the kind of name recognition and popularity among normal civilians that Soleimani had. He was basically Shiite Captain America. He was absolutely coordinating terrorist operations while alive, but dead he is a martyr par excellence. Both previous administrations have had chances to take him out, but they both decided he was less dangerous alive than as a martyr and cause for revengance. And it is only a matter of time before some sort of revengance appears. Remember, real life isn't the MCU. Large numbers of average people can do as much or even more damage than a single superhero, and the leaders are not load-bearing bosses. Killing Captain Terrorism does not put an end to his terrorist organization, and it does not ensure his replacement will be less skilled or less violent than he was.
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Jan 3, 2020 18:09
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hobbesmaster posted:we should have no problem with say Vietnam killing Kissinger at random when he visits say, idk Canada. Keep going, I'm nearly there.
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Jan 3, 2020 18:46
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Platystemon posted:So, what, he’s the Iranian Zhukov? It's hard to draw a US or even USSR comparison because, fortunately, the US and USSR haven't really had anything like Quds force or the IRGC. Imagine you built a second, parallel US Army. This one with a ton of independence reporting exclusively to the POTUS and composed exclusively of hard right conservative Christian chud types. This army is meant to put down rebels, wrongthinkers, and anyone threatening the President's rule. That's the IRGC. Now roll the School of the Americas into that parallel army along with the more aggressive parts of the CIA and NSA a lot of Americans don't like. This branch is meant to gently caress around overseas rather than domestically. That's Quds force. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 20:48
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He's the Iranian Hot Coldman.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:59
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The closest comparison I can think of is the PLA, if that had a separate leader besides Xi Jinping.
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Jan 3, 2020 21:20
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golden bubble posted:No living US military leader or intelligence has the kind of name recognition and popularity among normal civilians that Soleimani had. He was basically Shiite Captain America. He was absolutely coordinating terrorist operations while alive, but dead he is a martyr par excellence. Both previous administrations have had chances to take him out, but they both decided he was less dangerous alive than as a martyr and cause for revengance. And it is only a matter of time before some sort of revengance appears. He had personal relationships with the leaders of various militia and terrorist groups that have to be rebuilt. He also ran the Quds Force for 20 years. He's not load-bearing, but his death does set them back. But more than that, if we're willing to wax Suleimani, then lower level Quds Force guys are on the menu too. Their operations will be hampered by the need for greater security and secrecy. I still don't know if it was worth it but if you want the strongest case for killing him I think that's it.
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Jan 3, 2020 21:24
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Skeeber fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 21:56
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Skeeber posted:I’ll Well that's no fun.
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Jan 3, 2020 22:01
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you're such a loving idiot mortabis (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 3, 2020 22:14
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Warbadger posted:
The US Marine corps? (Yes yes I know, I'm not being serious)
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Jan 3, 2020 22:50
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Warbadger posted:Imagine you built a second, parallel US Army. This one with a ton of independence reporting exclusively to the POTUS and composed exclusively of hard right conservative Christian chud types. This army is meant to put down rebels, wrongthinkers, and anyone threatening the President's rule. That's the IRGC. Would you think the Nazi's SS be a good comparison? In terms of the parallel army and suppression of wrongthinkers and whatnot?
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Jan 3, 2020 23:05
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I actually had no idea who this General was and was looking around to see if anyone had any kind of effort post write up, is there anyone here who has enough knowledge to do so? What about the poster who did the Iran-Iraq war posts?
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Jan 3, 2020 23:20
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feedmegin posted:Where does 'living in Iran' come into it? This guy wasn't living in America. It's not a great analogy, but I was trying to get across the idea of a leader being physically present in the opposing country's territory. Of course Iraq isn't our territory, but we have people there, and he was killing them. The more I think about the strike in general, the more I think it will probably meaningfully force Iran to back down. The offer is "stay out of Iraq or we kill you there, and no one is off the table". Iran has few good ways to escalate barring a real act of war, and as hideous as it would be for us it's existential for them. So they probably cave, and everyone avoids war, as everyone prefers. The danger is the risk they don't.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:31
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Raenir Salazar posted:I actually had no idea who this General was and was looking around to see if anyone had any kind of effort post write up, is there anyone here who has enough knowledge to do so? What about the poster who did the Iran-Iraq war posts? https://youtu.be/Ux9GI5nxMVU
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Jan 3, 2020 23:33
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Captain von Trapp posted:It's not a great analogy, Could’ve stopped there, honestly.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:33
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Imagine having the thought, "Trump was definitely right about a foreign policy decision regarding the middle east"
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Jan 3, 2020 23:40
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hypnophant posted:Imagine having the thought, "Trump was definitely right about a foreign policy decision regarding the middle east" I don't think you'll find the word "definitely" in what I wrote, but certainly I'm not so blindly partisan that I'd say anything as risible as what you've just said.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:59
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Huh. VP got the number of hijackers on 9/11 wrong and blamed Iran for helping them. As far as weird after the fact justification goes, what?
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Jan 4, 2020 00:10
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Well we're cant blame the saudis so close enough i guess
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Jan 4, 2020 00:13
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Remember when it was Iraq that did 9/11?
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Jan 4, 2020 00:30
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Was killing him a good idea? No. Was killing him the way we did a good idea? No. Will I mourn his death? Absolutely not.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:45
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Captain von Trapp posted:The danger is the risk they don't.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:00
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Captain von Trapp posted:The more I think about the strike in general, the more I think it will probably meaningfully force Iran to back down. The offer is "stay out of Iraq or we kill you there, and no one is off the table" How sure can we be that this is how they'll read it?
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Jan 4, 2020 01:01
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StandardVC10 posted:How sure can we be that this is how they'll read it? If they don't we'll just have to speak more clearly, by assassinating some Iranian leaders inside Iran, of course.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:06
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mlmp08 posted:Huh. VP got the number of hijackers on 9/11 wrong and blamed Iran for helping them. As far as weird after the fact justification goes, what? Read pages 240 and 241 of the 9/11 commission report.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:06
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StandardVC10 posted:How sure can we be that this is how they'll read it? Not very, I guess. You can tell them, but you can't make then believe you. This was a problem in both directions during the cold war. It's certainly one of the risks of this course of action, and brinkmanship generally.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:11
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Hauldren Collider posted:Read pages 240 and 241 of the 9/11 commission report. (And none of the other pages)
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Jan 4, 2020 01:16
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Hauldren Collider posted:Read pages 240 and 241 of the 9/11 commission report. lmao, wow, if that's what he's referencing, the VP is deeply misleading in intent and also wrong in fact. His tweet does not say what the 9/11 commission report says at all.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:20
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Captain von Trapp posted:Not very, I guess. You can tell them, but you can't make then believe you. This was a problem in both directions during the cold war. It's certainly one of the risks of this course of action, and brinkmanship generally. As it turns out, open channels of communication between even oppositional state actors is a more effective means of transferring both denotation and connotation versus only using smoke signals, who knew?  *: It's even more effective than counting the number of people on the May Day reviewing stand standing to the right of Brezhnev then plugging this into a differential equation to determine soviet refrigeration production for the year** **: Not the number of people standing to his left though (that's how you know if the borscht the cafeteria had that day also had cabbage in it   ).
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Jan 4, 2020 01:33
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