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Tuxedo Catfish posted:DC superhero movies are, appropriately, the 4E in this analogy. Cause I have never seen a CineD poster actually criticizing a movie outside of their actual forum. Instead it is always coming to the defend of mediocre to bad movies with the insistence that people just don't get them, sometimes with the addition of assuming that you like some other perceived "rival" movie even when said "rival" was never brought up. It really resembles nothing so much as 3.5 diehards.
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Jan 3, 2020 22:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:DC superhero movies are, appropriately, the 4E in this analogy. Well done.
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Jan 3, 2020 22:53
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Terrible Opinions posted:So are the Star Wars Prequel movies also in the same boat? I mean I could sit here all day joking about how wrong you are, and I'm down to do that if you really want to, but my original point is that it would not be difficult for you to find people who agree with you in the subforum, either. You just have to be capable of accepting that it's an open topic for debate.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:02
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Like I don't care about people liking one movie or another but it is really annoying that CineD posters will jump into other forums to be angrily contrarian for pages at a time and then pretend that they don't do that. It's FYAD without the bigotry but all the annoying condescension.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:06
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I've never seen a thread in CineD where SMG hasn't posted. In my experience there's a lot of extremes too. Someone that likes a movie really likes it and won't hear bad of it, someone that hates it won't hear anything good about it. Not everyone, just a lot of the vocal posters. Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 23:06
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Terrible Opinions posted:Like I don't care about people liking one movie or another but it is really annoying that CineD posters will jump into other forums to be angrily contrarian for pages at a time and then pretend that they don't do that. It's FYAD without the bigotry but all the annoying condescension. It's more that there's a subset of movies -- generally ones that nerds had extremely predefined and specific expectations for, and then turned out to be very different -- that people will dump on unprompted, in completely unrelated contexts, and it's hard not to defend your favorites when that happens. Prometheus is another good example.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:07
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Terrible Opinions posted:So are the Star Wars Prequel movies also in the same boat? quote:Cause I have never seen a CineD poster actually criticizing a movie outside of their actual forum. quote:Instead it is always coming to the defend of mediocre to bad movies with the insistence that people just don't get them, sometimes with the addition of assuming that you like some other perceived "rival" movie even when said "rival" was never brought up. It really resembles nothing so much as 3.5 diehards. "LOL are you guys kidding? Everyone knows Goodfellas is bad." "Why?" "It's just bad. Henry Hill more like Henry SHILL amirite?" "Why is it bad?" "The script is bad, the acting is bad, the director is bad..." "You're still just saying 'it's bad.' What's wrong with them?" "The script is lazy, the acting is wooden, the director is a hack..." "Those are just cliche ways of saying 'it's bad.' Can you be more specific?" "loving HIPSTER MARXIST FILM SCHOOL DROPOUTS!" "I guess not."
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Jan 3, 2020 23:11
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:DC superhero movies are, appropriately, the 4E in this analogy. So to continue this analogy does that make the Wonder Woman and Aquaman movies the hardcover "Heroes Of" books that had some good ideas but were forever tainted by their association to a failed product? I mean poo poo there's even going to be 3 of them.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:14
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Halloween Jack posted:Here's how the conversation typically goes: It'd be like someone Kramering in every time nerds randomly dumped on Eregon or Twilight in the 00s. Yeah it's tedious to read the same stale nerd take, but it's far more tedious to see the same rehash between two tribes of nerd over a thoroughly uninteresting piece of media.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:25
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Aquaman is free of it, but Wonder Woman definitely bears the hallmarks of the Snyder controversy. Since Aquaman is just a MCU movie but with better action scenes and battle scenes. I enjoyed it because I found out I actually wanted an MCU movie that actually used it's massive special effects budget to do good action scenes, instead of hiring the B team for combat choreography. Blockbuster Video was created because some posters felt that CineD was too condescending. But it turns out there is nothing to discuss if everyone hates talking about the details of a movie and working through themes, symbolism, and cinematography. Blockbuster Video is so dead that the front page still has threads last discussed in 2018. Really, the main thing is that Snyder is so hated that you'll see "gently caress Snyder, that libertarian jackass" interjected in the middle of random threads out of nowhere, like a thread about Warframe, Smoking Meat, or Fishing.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:28
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Terrible Opinions posted:I have genuinely never seen this happen to an actually good film like Goodfellas. It's always the same batch of mediocre films nerds over-hate. The hate presumably being entirely generated due to being a "wrong" take on some existing franchise they are familiar with, but CineD also only liking the films because they're associated with those same properties. Your entire argument here rests on the assumption that the general public are an unimpeachable authority on what's "actually bad" and that the problem is deviation from that standard, rather than the immense degree of condescension that itself implies. ... which again, makes the 4E analogy really cogent.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:29
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Though I hope we can at least agree that Cinema Sins is terrible. Anyone who calls themselves a movie critic should be able to do more than just nitpick over "plot holes". Just like how board game critics need to do more than summarize the rule book and say one or two sentences proclaiming it as either fun or not fun.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:33
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Imagine if you were in the board game thread and out of the clear blue called 4e Dungeons and Dragons "a complete piece of poo poo because it's like a video game" and then a bunch of 4e likers showed up and were like "no, you can still hate it if you like but that's a very tenuous statement" and then you complained about 4e people making GBS threads up completely unrelated threads. A lot of people say a lot of stupid things about topics they've put very little thought into and get mad when somebody cares enough to correct it. That's on them. Only the worst posters slag stuff and expect it to pass by unremarked on. golden bubble posted:Though I hope we can at least agree that Cinema Sins is terrible. Anyone who calls themselves a movie critic should be able to do more than just nitpick over "plot holes". Just like how board game critics need to do more than summarize the rule book and say one or two sentences proclaiming it as either fun or not fun. I hold Cinemasins partially responsible for the terrible state that film criticism is in today. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 23:34
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Your entire argument here rests on the assumption that the general public are an unimpeachable authority on what's "actually bad" and that the problem is deviation from that standard, rather than the immense degree of condescension that itself implies. However I'd argue that CineD also only likes those movies because of that same association with little regard for actual quality. The arguments in favor of say the Star Wars prequels always boil do to just stating the themes and ideas of the movies. Which yes the idea of republican democracy subverted by a populist tyrant fabricating threads is present and an interesting topic. Hell uncomfortably topical now. However simply having those ideas present in the work is not itself an indication of quality, only intentions of quality. The movie suffers from the live-action actors deliveries rarely matching up with the seeming intended feel of the scenes, as indicated by how differently all the CGI performers act. It also suffers from interweaving political and personal storylines in such a way that it is difficult for the full impact of either set of storylines to really land. This all ends up with a series of movies that just don't connect with most people due to issues in the execution. It is yes valuable to examine what is present in something without just dismiss it as bad. However I'd say that the only reason CineD cares about those themes in the Prequels in particular is because they're in a Star Wars property. It's being able to say big boy film things are in the nerd property I like. golden bubble posted:Though I hope we can at least agree that Cinema Sins is terrible. Anyone who calls themselves a movie critic should be able to do more than just nitpick over "plot holes". Just like how board game critics need to do more than summarize the rule book and say one or two sentences proclaiming it as either fun or not fun.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:47
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Terrible Opinions posted:However I'd argue that CineD also only likes those movies because of that same association with little regard for actual quality. You're basically psycho-analyzing the motives of a pretty diverse group of people you've never interacted with outside of an internet forum and should stop.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:51
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how about those Traditional Games, guys
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Jan 4, 2020 00:10
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Critique is a skill, most internet forums critics are not well skilled in it, and so threads and forums dedicated to critique of something but populated with non-experts tend to be filled to the brim with poor critique. I'd like to think that TG is mostly not a forum dedicated to critique, although we certainly have threads so dedicated, like FATAL and Friends. Cinema Discusso, I gather, is more or less entirely focused on critique? Perhaps then the objection is that among its posters and posts, there are relatively few highly skilled good-faith critiques, compared to a larger volume of drek. That said, folks who are CD regulars probably already easily filter out the white noise posts and focus on the ones by posters who really are good at criticism, and so they extract high value from it anyway.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:15
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How would you stat up undead Star Destroyers in the Star Wars FFG RPG? What about in Traveler? Is it possible to make a good cooperative space combat system that works with multiple players for an RPG, or should you break out Space Alert instead?
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Jan 4, 2020 00:15
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golden bubble posted:Is it possible to make a good cooperative space combat system that works with multiple players for an RPG, or should you break out Space Alert instead? No and yes respectively.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Your entire argument here rests on the assumption that the general public are an unimpeachable authority on what's "actually bad" and that the problem is deviation from that standard, rather than the immense degree of condescension that itself implies. Is there, like, a point to trying to bait people to defend 4E or what because you keep bringing it up like it's some sort of masterstroke
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Jan 4, 2020 00:19
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Leraika posted:how about those Traditional Games, guys Conversations sometimes wander to other topics before coming back, you only need to worry if it starts to go around and around in circles. BTW this is literally one of the "scene ends" conditions in Hillfolk, the dramatic RPG. If the players are basically saying variations on the same thing, end the scene.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:21
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Leperflesh posted:Critique is a skill, most internet forums critics are not well skilled in it, and so threads and forums dedicated to critique of something but populated with non-experts tend to be filled to the brim with poor critique. I like to think that TG is pretty dedicated to critique, at least relatively speaking, and that's exactly why I like posting here and consider it to be better than the majority of online spaces to discuss TRPGs. SA in general is an environment where being critical is much more normal and part of the cultural background noise than most social environments, and I love this. If it weren't so I probably would have hosed off to some other social media site ages ago. Darwinism posted:Is there, like, a point to trying to bait people to defend 4E or what because you keep bringing it up like it's some sort of masterstroke That's not what I'm doing in the first place. The point is that nearly everyone here should already be familiar with the dynamic of it being suddenly and inexplicably denigrated out of the clear blue sky, and has some idea of how frustrating and stupid this phenomenon is.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:22
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:That's not what I'm doing in the first place. The point is that nearly everyone here should already be familiar with the dynamic of it being suddenly and inexplicably denigrated out of the clear blue sky, and has some idea of how frustrating and stupid this phenomenon is. My bad, misread that entirely
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Jan 4, 2020 00:24
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People randomly wandering into the 5e thread expecting validation is the reason I still look at that thread! Though it's not because they hate 4e, it's because random one-post tourists are by far the most likely people to be playing some ultra-jank rapity "our DM really like anime so" bullshit game and I need my fixes of bad game stories from somewhere.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:53
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Shut the gently caress up about CineD already, Jesus. If I ever wind up as obnoxious as SuperMechaGodzilla I hope someone does the needful and smothers me with a pillow, I don't care how invested they are in "good critique" of cinema, every "this CineD poster is good actually" anyone's ever pointed to is an obnoxious dickhead seemingly perpetually high on their own farts and if never talking about 4E again is what it takes for them to likewise shut up then I will happily take one for the team.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:10
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Kai Tave posted:Shut the gently caress up about CineD already, Jesus. If I ever wind up as obnoxious as SuperMechaGodzilla I hope someone does the needful and smothers me with a pillow, I don't care how invested they are in "good critique" of cinema, every "this CineD poster is good actually" anyone's ever pointed to is an obnoxious dickhead seemingly perpetually high on their own farts and if never talking about 4E again is what it takes for them to likewise shut up then I will happily take one for the team. This thread was pretty much winding down on the topic and had discussed it without rancor up to this point. I don't know what personal problems are causing you to post this little mini-screed but it's an excellent example of how a certain kind of person wants to poo poo on everything and challenging it in any way makes the replier the bad guy somehow. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 01:18
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theironjef posted:People randomly wandering into the 5e thread expecting validation is the reason I still look at that thread! Though it's not because they hate 4e, it's because random one-post tourists are by far the most likely people to be playing some ultra-jank rapity "our DM really like anime so" bullshit game and I need my fixes of bad game stories from somewhere. I especially love the monthly people that show up asking how best to punish a problem player's character instead of talking to them like adults.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:25
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Print this out and take it to your therapist. Show it to them and explain what you were thinking and why when you wrote it. I guarantee you something productive will come out of it. i'm broadly on the same side of this argument but that's a really weird and kind of intrusive thing to say to someone
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Jan 4, 2020 01:26
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I don't mind most SA posters. But CineDers? I could do without CineDers.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:30
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I especially love the monthly people that show up asking how best to punish a problem player's character instead of talking to them like adults. Making a real post now because I have to say, that guy who had to proudly crow about his party anally raping hill giants with immovable rods (not once but twice!!!) was a pretty surprising swerve even for that thread.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:38
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:i'm broadly on the same side of this argument but that's a really weird and kind of intrusive thing to say to someone You're right, I edited it.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:i'm broadly on the same side of this argument but that's a really weird and kind of intrusive thing to say to someone Megaman's Jockstrap making really fuckin terrible posts, well I never
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Jan 4, 2020 01:40
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I especially love the monthly people that show up asking how best to punish a problem player's character instead of talking to them like adults. Avoiding direct discussion is such a tried and true method though.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:41
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Kai Tave posted:Megaman's Jockstrap making really fuckin terrible posts, well I never You had a meltdown about another forum on a website you post on, to the point where you pledged to never talk about 4e again if you DIdn't Have To See the Forbidden Forum Mentioned . My 5 year old displays more emotional maturity than you on a pretty regular basis. Take care and feel better.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:44
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Critique is actually a super important skill and process for engaging with any form of media, and understanding how critique works requires a degree of meta-critique. I would argue that both of these are especially under developed in the realm of analog gaming, in part due to a lack of language to describe critique but also in part due to many nerds getting extremely frustrated the second most forms of long form critique comes up in regard to elfgames.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:45
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:You had a meltdown about another forum on a website you post on, to the point where you pledged to never talk about 4e again if you DIdn't Have To See the Forbidden Forum Mentioned . My 5 year old displays more emotional maturity than you on a pretty regular basis. Take care and feel better. I'd also give up talking about 4E if it would get you to shut up but somehow I doubt that's in the cards.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:47
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Nuns with Guns posted:Making a real post now because I have to say, that guy who had to proudly crow about his party anally raping hill giants with immovable rods (not once but twice!!!) was a pretty surprising swerve even for that thread. Kind of reminds me how the few V5 fans which shown up in the World of Darkness thread had with but one or two exceptions some really toxic and regressive views.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:48
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Nuns with Guns posted:Making a real post now because I have to say, that guy who had to proudly crow about his party anally raping hill giants with immovable rods (not once but twice!!!) was a pretty surprising swerve even for that thread. Was that the same guy who... I can't remember the exact specifics but I think it was something like him wanting a custom spell that used his female warlock's unborn baby as a spell component? And him just not understanding why everyone thought that was profoundly weird and gross? Libertad! posted:Kind of reminds me how the few V5 fans which shown up in the World of Darkness thread had with but one or two exceptions some really toxic and regressive views. Oh yeah, and they're really offended that we don't agree with them.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:49
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I have to get my "Dumb idiot surprised everyone else isn't also a dumb idiot" stories somewhere! I just want to make a call now to split the cat piss thread into "Actual Cat Piss Thread" and "Boring monthly reports on your Deathwatch game that I'm sure is going fine." I need more concentrated schadenfreude. Mods help out a guy.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:59
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theironjef posted:I have to get my "Dumb idiot surprised everyone else isn't also a dumb idiot" stories somewhere! I just want to make a call now to split the cat piss thread into "Actual Cat Piss Thread" and "Boring monthly reports on your Deathwatch game that I'm sure is going fine." I need more concentrated schadenfreude. Mods help out a guy. They used to be! Probably sometime when grognards.txt was still around. I would second the split if the thread gets too long.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:06
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