|
chitoryu12 posted:I usually use ligma coal in mine.
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2020 03:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 16:42 |
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:I usually use ligma coal in mine.  What's a usually?
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:
USUALLY MY BALLS SCHADENBONER
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2020 03:47
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:USUALLY MY BALLS SCHADENBONER Ok, but where are the Ligmas of Yesteryear?
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2020 03:49
|
|
|
Anything ancient history to see in Taiwan or Shanghai? I'm waiting on a flight and I am insanely nervous.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 23:40
|
|
|
Not really in Shanghai, it's a new city and the PRC destroyed everything they could find. There's still a scattering of colonial era stuff. Taiwan was settled by Chinese recently so there's not much. I don't know anything about indigenous Taiwanese cultural sites, if they even still exist. The best Chinese history museum in the world is in Taipei though, full of stuff saved from the mainland.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
National Palace Museum?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:12
|
|
|
Yes. Now with a new southern branch. The Taipei site is just down the road from the Taiwanese Aboriginal museum, you can get a joint ticket iirc. If you're visiting Taiwan, btw, pop into the T&T thread and say hi.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:18
|
|
|
Oh poo poo, I didn't even realize that was a forum. Doh, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:19
|
|
|
You can visit the old Dutch colonial Fort Zeelandia, renamed Anping following its occupation by Koxinga. I think it has gardens and a modest museum. Today it has both ruins of the dutch starfort as well as later fortifications built by the Chinese.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:56
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:I usually use ligma coal in mine. I tried that but I could only carve spheres.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
Squalid posted:You can visit the old Dutch colonial Fort Zeelandia, renamed Anping following its occupation by Koxinga. I think it has gardens and a modest museum. Today it has both ruins of the dutch starfort as well as later fortifications built by the Chinese. did somebody say star forts? 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 10:50
|
|
|
Also I got ahold of a copy of translated Maurice's Strategikon if people still wanted to know about the Late Roman Army and how it was organized.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 04:14
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:Also I got ahold of a copy of translated Maurice's Strategikon if people still wanted to know about the Late Roman Army and how it was organized. Hell yeah
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 04:21
|
|
|
id like to read cool quotes from the book
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 04:30
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:Also I got ahold of a copy of translated Maurice's Strategikon if people still wanted to know about the Late Roman Army and how it was organized. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 05:21
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Okay its not a long book but lots of info, I will start with the first part of infantry stuff since I think that was what was being asked originally, note some comments are contradictory it feels. 1. Clothing: Troops should wear gothic tunics down to their knees, and Gothic shoes with thick soles, broad toes and fastened with no more than two clasps. Do not wear greaves or boots while marching because it slows you down. Also they should keep their hair cut short and its better to not let it grow to long. 2. Training Individual Heavy Infantry: They should practice single combat against each other using a shield and staff, also how to throw short javelins and lead pointed darts. 3. Training Individual Light Infantry: They should be trained to fire a bow rapid fire in the Roman or the Persian Manner* (Not sure what the difference is, but maybe Khan or someone with bow knowledge can tell the difference in style). They should be trained in shooting while carrying a shield, and in using a sling or throwing a small javelin a long distance along with running and jumping. 4. Weapons of the Heavy-Armed Infantryman: All soldiers in the same Tagma should have the same color shields. Herulian Swords, Lances, and helmets with small plums and tassel's. The first man in a file should have slings and lead darts. The picked men in the files should have mail coats, at the very least the first two men in the file. They should also have iron or wooden greaves at least the last and first men in a file. 5. Weapons of the Light Armed Infantryman: They should carry bows with quivers of 30-40 arrows. They should have small shields as well as crossbows with short arrows in small quivers. For men who are not experienced archers or not have bows they should carry small javelins or Slavic spears. They should also carry lead pointed darts in leather cases and slings. 6. Essential Equipment: Each Squad (dekarchy) should have a single wagon, no more otherwise men will be to distracted by them to do other things. This wagon should carry equipment like a hand mill, ax, hatchets, saws, scythes, shovels, picks etc. Also caltrops tied together with light cords attached to an iron peg for easy collection. There should also be additional wagons carrying support staff and siege equipment under a separate officer. Each squad should also have a pack horse able to carry rations for 8-10 days if the wagons need to be left behind. Oxen should also be around and marked and used to carry heavy wagons of additional supplies. 7. Specialized duties: Heralds (Guys who shout orders) should be able to speak Latin & Greek clearly and if possible Persian. There should also be drill masters, trumpeters, armorers etc. Also a guy should be put in charge to check equipment and collect and re-distribute lost items. 8. Organization of the Army Infantry: In an ideal world the army would form a heavy infantry tagma from 16 files of 16 men for 256 soldiers in total, commanded by a Tribune. there would be 64 of these units in the battle line for 16384 men along with 8000 light infantry and 10000 Cavalry. Divide the Light & Heavy Infantry into 4 equal contingents right, left, right center, left center along with 2 Cavalry contingents of 5000. However since at the present units are not even equal in strength it is not easy to fix a definite number for a company, as a result units should be flexible. Each contingent (Meros) should be commanded by a Merarch or Stratelets. If there are less than 24,0000 infantry split the army into 3 contingents, with the army commander in charge of the center. Additional soldiers should be pulled off the battle line, both heavy and light troops under their own officers as a reserve force. Personnel and Organization: Find everyone who is able in the army who can shoot or are young and strong enough to learn and use them as light infantry in each Tagma. If the army is greater than 24,000 ratio should be 2:1 should be light infantry, if smaller 3:1. The light infantry should be assembled into dekarchies (8 man squads) under a dekarch and a master archer. The remaining soldiers should be organized into Files of 18 of mixed veterans and recruits. The two worst (poorest) soldiers should not be used in the battle line and be assigned to the wagons or other duties. The remaining 16 make up the battle line. You put your 8 best troops in the front and back of the unit, with the worst in the middle. This file is split into the Primani under a File Leader and the Secundi under the Dekarch. Also in battle lines try to put your tallest guys up front because its more impressive, unless they aren't your best soldiers. Don't make files bigger than 16 because it can be quickly and easily divided. 11. Formation of the Heavy Infantry Tagma: Files will be organized in the Tagma from Left to Right. The Commander is accompanied by a Standard Bearer, Herald, Trumpeter, Drill Master and Orderly. The Meros commander has two of these guys plus two Eagle Bearers. The commander should do their utmost not to get personally involved in the fighting and the trumpeter shouldnt sound their horn without the express orders of the Merarch to cut down on confusion. 12. Formation of the Light Infantry: Place them either behind the heavy infantry or within the files alternating 1 heavy infantry to 1 archer. Sometimes they will be place among the heavy infantry files, but along the flanks just inside the Cavalry. The troops with Javelins or Darts should either be behind the heavy infantry or on the flanks. 13. Relation of Cavalry to Heavy Infantry: Line them up 10 men deep on the flanks if more than 12,000 horse, 5 men deep if less. Put your best horse tagma's furthest from the infantry. Cavalry should not be ordered to race after the infantry or detach to far from the infantry line to avoid ambush. If ambushed and escape is impossible dismount and try to defend themselves on foot. The next section is on drill and battle formations, which is longer and will add later, a lot of forming phalanxes and shield walls and how to get into position to do so. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Jan 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 07:39
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:Each Squad (dekarchy) should have a single wagon, no more otherwise men will be to distracted by them to do other things. Does he mean "they'll loot too much"?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 08:39
|
|
|
The Lone Badger posted:Does he mean "they'll loot too much"? I think it is more in regards to having them fiddle with another wagon and the pack animal associated with it etc. more than looting. In the Cavalry section there is a detail on looting that I noticed skimming through. Kind of like here where they say break out your two shittiest troops and make them essentially support staff. For Horsemen in each Tagma there should be a squad of "Corpsman" whose job is to follow behind the Cavalry unit and pick up/rescue wounded troops and they get a bonus for every soldier they rescue, and their saddles should be setup to carry another rider and have extra stirrups to help people up, plus extra water. They also are in charge of looting after the battle and taking scavenged equipment/horses etc. back to command to be allocated amongst the unit. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Jan 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 08:54
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:Also I got ahold of a copy of translated Maurice's Strategikon if people still wanted to know about the Late Roman Army and how it was organized. Does it say anything about where you should have your army set up camp for winter quarters? 
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 14:27
|
|
|
Dalael posted:Does it say anything about where you should have your army set up camp for winter quarters? There is a section on how to fortify camps, and how long soldiers should be sent home for furlough in winter and what to do if they don't come back or come back late.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
oooh i'd like to hear how furlough's are handled! i imagine they have eased up a bit on punishments like decimation in this era, don't think the byzantines could get away with that kind of discipline anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 01:50
|
|
|
Are décimations ever a common normal thing in written history?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 01:57
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Are décimations ever a common normal thing in written history?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 02:00
|
|
|
No. Decimation is an early Republic thing and even then not common, when Crassus revives it it's a huge scandal. The last reliably recorded Roman instance was either in 20 or 68 CE, though the fact that Maurice feels the need to mention "yo don't do this" makes some people argue it must have still happened occasionally.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 02:00
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:how long soldiers should be sent home for furlough in winter and what to do if they don't come back or come back late.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 02:01
|
|
|
HEY GUNS posted:imperialists did it after second breitenfeld, italian army did it in ww1, i think the common factor is the presence of italians Wait the Italians decimated themselves? What?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
Squalid posted:oooh i'd like to hear how furlough's are handled! i imagine they have eased up a bit on punishments like decimation in this era, don't think the byzantines could get away with that kind of discipline anymore. Wait why not?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 02:28
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:No. Decimation is an early Republic thing and even then not common, when Crassus revives it it's a huge scandal. The last reliably recorded Roman instance was either in 20 or 68 CE, though the fact that Maurice feels the need to mention "yo don't do this" makes some people argue it must have still happened occasionally. Maurice and his contemporaries were probably still reading all those late Republican sources who were scandalized by Crassus. Even if it hadn't happened for centuries in his time his peers could still be aware of it for the same reasons WWI Italians and we are. Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Wait why not? i don't remember when the strategekon was written but my impression is discipline became a bit laxer by the late Empire, since it was hard to replace soldiers and circumstances are often more desperate
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 02:30
|
|
|
Squalid posted:i don't remember when the strategekon was written but my impression is discipline became a bit laxer by the late Empire, since it was hard to replace soldiers and circumstances are often more desperate Well that's the standard idea that discipline somehow got more lax over the years since the legions of the late Republic early Empire and that the armies of the late Empire were rather tatterdemalion. It's wrong. Look up the hollow square tactics that reached their greatest utilization under the Macedonians, they require HUGE amounts of discipline to maintain. Just as much as the tactics of the legions of Caesar if not more.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 02:47
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Well that's the standard idea that discipline somehow got more lax over the years since the legions of the late Republic early Empire and that the armies of the late Empire were rather tatterdemalion. It's wrong. Look up the hollow square tactics that reached their greatest utilization under the Macedonians, they require HUGE amounts of discipline to maintain. Just as much as the tactics of the legions of Caesar if not more. When the Macedonians big conquests in the mid-late 900's began that puts them as far removed from the writer(s) of the Strategikon, as the Severan Dynasty of the Principate. Also in the foreward they give a plausible author of the text based off of availiable information. Maurice had a brother, Phillipicus who was Magister Militum of the East, and supposedly studied history especially Hannibal (He gets mentioned more than anyone else) and after Maurice was deposed he spent about 7 years in a Monastery from 603-610 which would have given him ample time to work on a book. HEY GUNS posted:sweet, tell us this --- Military Punishment Stuff --- What you tell the troops 1. If a soldier disobeys his own pentarchy or tetrarch he should be punished, if they disobey their dekarch or a dekarch his hexarch they will be punished 2. If a soldier disobeys the Tagma's count/tribune (these are used interchangeably per a footnote) they will get capital punishment. 3. If a soldier is unjustly treated by anyone he should appeal his commander, if he is unjustly treated by the commander he shall go to the next highest officer. 4. If anyone presumes to stay beyond the time of Furlough he shall be dismissed and made a civilian and to be apprehended by the civil authorities for punishment. 5. If soldiers practice sedition/mutiny/etc. they shall undergo capital punishment 6. If anyone who has been entrusted with defense of a fortress or city betrays or deserts his post against the orders of his commander, he shall undergo the extreme penalty. 7. If anyone is found guilty of wanting to desert to the enemy, they and anyone who knew but did not report to their commander shall undergo the extreme penalty. 8. If a soldier does not follow the orders of his dekarch they will be punished. However if this is out of ignorance of the orders the Dekarch will be punished for failure to inform his men. 9. If anyone finds a stray animal or other object small or large and does not report and turn it over to his commanding office he shall be punished not just himself but anyone else who knows as they are thieves. 10. If you injure a taxpayer and refuse to make adequate compensation he shall repay double the amount of the damage. 11. If one receives an allowance to purchase weapons and fails to do so he will be punished, if he is not ordered to acquire them or reported to the commander by his Dekarch he will be punished. Unfortunately it doesn't say what punishment would be, and the extreme penalty and capital punishment seem superfluous? Maybe the Extreme punishment is some type of mutilation or worse way to die? Maybe the Punishments are codified in the Code of Justinian? What you tell the commanders 12. Anyone who disobeys his own commanding officer shall be punished 13. Anyone who injures a soldier shall compensate him by paying back twice the amount and he shall pay a like sum if he causes an injury to a taxpayer. If, in winter quarters or in camp either a soldier or office causes an injury to a taxpayer without restitution he shall pay him back twice the amount. 14. If in time anyone should presume to let a soldier go off on furlough he shall pay a fine of thirty nomismata. While in winter quarters furloughs may be allowed for 2-3 months and in peace soldiers may go on furlough within the boundaries of the province. 15. If anyone who is entrusted with defense of the of a city or fortress should surrender it while able to defend it, unless compelled by danger to life he shall undergo capitol punishment. Battle Punishments 16. If when battle lines are formed and a soldier abandons his post or his standard and flees, or if he charges out ahead of place, or if he plunders the dead, or races off to pursue the enemy, sacks the baggage train or enemy camp. He is to be executed and all loot that was taken be confiscated and given to the common fund of his tagma inasmuch as he has betrayed his comrades. 17. If during action or battle the troops formed for combat turn back, without a good and manifest cause. We order that the soldiers that first took flight be shot down and decimated by the other tagma's inasmuch as they broke their ranks and were to blame for the rout of the meros. But if they were injured in the battle itself they will be exempt from this judgement. 18. If a standard is captured by the enemy without good excuse he will be punished and reduced to the lowest rank. in their unit in which they are registered. If they were wounded in the fighting they will be exempt from punishment. 19. If a meros or the whole formation is routed and the men do not maintain order and withdrawal towards defenders or a camp or run off in some other direction we order those daring to do this be turned over to their comrades for punishment. 20. If a soldier throw's away his arms in battle we order that he be punished for disarming himself in face of the enemy. ---- Also in the book is about 150 little Maxims, and snippets generals should follow, and honestly its kind of funny just thinking through all them that get broken and how it always ends badly when it happens. If you want to hear more ask about something and I can see if there is one 100). The General should always have a body of chosen troops about him, whom he can send to support of sections of the army which are hard pressed. He should not advance too precipitously against the enemy, for if some mishap occurs the whole army could be destroyed. 98). The general shouldn't be ignorant of none of the situations that are likely to occur in war. Who can attempt to accomplish what he does not understand? Who is able to furnish assistance in situations whose dangers he does not understand. 62). Those who's performance is consistently poor should not be entrusted even with just ordinary responsibilities. 35). The general who is overly harsh with his subordinates and the one who is too indulgent are both unfit for command. Fear leads to hatred, and giving in too much results in being despised, it is best to take the middle course. 26). Even in friendly territory a fortified camp should be set up; a general should never say "I did not expect it" 22). Great caution must be observed in pursuing the enemy into ground suited for ambushes. A good general will turn back at the right time, and come back later if necessary. 20). To arouse discord and suspicion among the enemy is to refrain from burning or plundering the estates of certain prominent men on their side and leave them alone. 9). Nature produces few brave men, whereas care and training make efficient soldiers. --- Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jan 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 03:30
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:Wait the Italians decimated themselves? What? Cadorna, the worst general of WW1. Imagine Zap Brannigan but senile and Italian. He believed in the French school of full frontal assaults carried through by morale, and even though they always turned into inconclusive bloodbaths he kept doing them right through 1917, when the army was depleted and still using gas masks that were useless against phosgene and chlorine. He started executing huge numbers of his own soldiers when he realized that they were adapting to life in the trenches and holding unofficial agreements with Austrians not to shoot unless they were shot at, but the actual decimation happened in 1916 when one of his frontal assaults ended with an entire brigade stranded in no-mans land; he shelled the brigade when they tried to surrender and when they finally got out of there he decimated the survivors. Weird guy, ended up executing more of his own troops than any other WW1 general by far. He finally got promoted out of the field when he lost his entire army in 12th Isonzo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 04:40
|
|
|
Wikipedia actually has a line regarding decimation and strategikon:Wikipedia decimation article posted:The Eastern Roman Emperor Maurice forbade in his Strategikon the decimatio and other brutal punishments. According to him, punishments where the rank and file see their comrades dying by the hands of their own brothers-in-arms could lead to a collapse of morale. Moreover, it could seriously deplete the manpower of the fighting unit. edit:fixed quote url downout fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 04:53
|
|
|
Decimation seems to have been oddly common around World War I in general: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_army)#Post-classical_instances
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 04:54
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:20). To arouse discord and suspicion among the enemy is to refrain from burning or plundering the estates of certain prominent men on their side and leave them alone. No war but the class war.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 04:55
|
|
|
That was a tactic Hannibal used against Fabius and it helped bait the Romans into sticking their collective dick in the hornet's nest at Cannae. It works.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:That was a tactic Hannibal used against Fabius and it helped bait the Romans into sticking their collective dick in the hornet's nest at Cannae. It works. Yeah there are a fair few comments in addition to this on this type of info-sec and sowing discord Like if your allies desert to the enemy, or soldiers desert make sure to have scouts/spies/etc. get captured with letters saying when the guys should double cross the enemy so they are forced to abandon them or are put out of the way due to suspicion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 05:09
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:When the Macedonians big conquests in the mid-late 900's began that puts them as far removed from the writer(s) of the Strategikon, as the Severan Dynasty of the Principate. That poster seemed to be thinking late Roman = less than early Roman in general, something I'm always hyper-defensive about. Thank you for the excerpts!
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 07:49
|
|
|
Rome became Byzantine in 693CE. Buy my book to find out why.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 09:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 16:42 |
|
|
Jack2142 posted:Okay its not a long book but lots of info, I will start with the first part of infantry stuff since I think that was what was being asked originally, note some comments are contradictory it feels. Roman or persian manner. Hm, I don't really know alot about this period, but I think they mean the way of release. Fingers vs. Shooting aid
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 11:29
|
|