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Ehud posted:You started with “weird Herbert hate” and then mostly named a bunch of reasons that he’s not very good. Comparing him to Paxton Lynch, Mike Glennon, and Blaine Gabbert is all over the place and pretty damning. I think he's much better than people give him credit for and fits pretty well in the way the NFL seems to be trending. DariusLikewise posted:Confirmed, the best case scenario for Hebert is Josh Allen Kind of. It's funny how people think having a strong arm isn't that much of an asset, especially when combined with the ability to keep plays alive in the pocket. Kind of crowned Kyler Murray last year too.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:39
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Randaconda posted:A guy who's ceiling is "competent backup" is still gonna make a lot of money, tbh. 
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Jan 2, 2020 18:41
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Doltos posted:Comparing him to Paxton Lynch, Mike Glennon, and Blaine Gabbert is all over the place and pretty damning. I think he's much better than people give him credit for and fits pretty well in the way the NFL seems to be trending. I don’t really know who to compare him to. I just know he doesn’t pass my EET* *ehud eyeball test
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Jan 2, 2020 18:54
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Burrow is Jimmy G and Herbert is Tannehill
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Jan 2, 2020 19:01
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seiferguy posted:I had to watch him at UW just like you had to watch him at Tennessee! No one will admit to it anymore but I swear a lot of Washington fans were all in on the 'but you can't judge him because everything around him was awful' thing. Like, everything around him absolutely was awful, but that didn't mean he was great.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:08
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If you flirt with 1st round labels you have the talent to be a 7 year backup and collect a pretty sweet nest egg until you get back to your Georgia car dealership
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Jan 2, 2020 19:12
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ragle posted:Burrow is Jimmy G and Herbert is Tannehill Hm you and Ehud both make good points but Burrow rules Tua is good but for 3 years and Herbert will bust out in 4 years due to decision making
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Jan 2, 2020 19:13
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Ironic Twist posted:What are your thoughts on this year's crop of WRs? It's an odd mid-point between the 2011 and 2015 drafts in terms of player types. There's a couple of guys who should be complete and ready to rol To start with the Bama guys: Jeudy should be a Julio-level talent based on his athletic profile and demonstrated skills but still can disappear at times. Part of that could be the QB and need to feed other guys on the offense and/or Sark, but it always seemed insane to me that he didn't put up like a 1400 yard season. He's got everything you could want in terms of ability to accelerate and cut in and out of routes, particularly on posts and crosses that catch by the far hash, but he disappears on the boundaries at times in a way that someone with his vertical and body control really shouldn't. As the main sideline receiver on the team, he does get open and make contested catches frequently, but the dude should be blowing hitch and curl routes open by 4 yards with how physically gifted he is and how precise his other routes are. I think part of it is that he tries to body catch too often when he's up against the sideline--which happens when guys have trouble keeping their feet in bounds and need to focus on that to complete catches. It's almost like he's so fixated on his route running that he forgets to use his hands in those situations. If he gets coached up on that a bit and learns to put more consistent effort into blocking, I don't see why he can't develop into a top-5 NFL receiver, but he's a really strange dude in that he's technically polished on all sorts of insanely hard things except for catching and blocking. I also don't love the way he gets off press at times, because he'll try to do some dumb poo poo where he thinks he's fast enough to just run away from a guys arms without technically needing to push with his arms which leads to him running a couple yards sideways at the start. It's similar to the sideline thing where I think he just focuses way too much on his footwork. As a prospect? He reminds me a lot of Roy Williams in terms of the movement and space ability but odd missing links in the game Ruggs will get hype by virtue of being blindingly quick, but the real merits of picking him up are that he's just generally a better version of what Calvin Ridley was a few years ago, where he can take slants and short routes the distance or beat you up top. His hands are rock solid for how he gets used, but he's not really used as a boundary receiver unless it's for throwing past guys rather than at the line, since he's probably at his best in space. He's not always clean on how he cuts posts or flags compared to pure speed on a Go, fade, or square in, but he's so fast that it really doesn't matter that much. If he cleans up some of his stops enough to start threatening double moves off of slants or curls, he's going to have some 200+ yard games at the next level. Field receiver who plays in the slot should be perfect for him. He gets off press decently but would stand to learn a better outside release counter, as I do think he can get caught flat-footed against some long-armed defenders who keep pushing. I do worry that he's not going to be able to block well enough to consistently face down outside corners on early downs, not really because of technique but because of how his weight is distributed. I like him as a sort of cross between Ridley and a Tyreek Hill type where he has the upside to be as good or better than the latter but no worse than the former. Devonta Smith might actually be a better route runner than Jeudy against the boundary and on par with Amari Cooper on that level, where he played guys like Stingley this year who physically match up and just dog-walked them on everything short to long. He's really small, which is saying something considering he shares the field with Ruggs, but he also seems to catch literally everything that gets to him. He needs to add 10-15 pounds at least to block consistently at the next level, or he's going to have to play on an island away from the formation a lot just to create space to keep the defender out of it when rushing. He also has the most trouble with press of the 3, assuming it's done well because the defender if screwed if they miss him. I can't get over how odd it is watching Bama's largely undersized receivers block this year on film. He's not as fast as the other two guys but probably still runs in the high 4.4s I think, and his ability to create space in limited zones is astonishing. If I have to nitpick him, it's really down to him being so slight and being the worst blocker of the 3, which may distress some manball coaches. His ceiling is being an Odell Beckham caliber talent, but he could also easily turn into a Robert Woods/Brandin Cooks guy where he needs another receiver around him to keep him from just getting pressed to death. Then getting into everyone else: CeeDee Lamb is this year's "what the gently caress" catch guy who seems to routinely make insane circus catches after creating juuuust enough space with his route running. While he's not as sudden as any of the Bama guys, he's much better at stopping and pivoting than all of them, save mayyyybe Smith, which leads to him jumping over guys at the boundary or catching over safeties in the endzone when he sees where the ball is going. Finds holes in zones better than anyone in the class, particularly on the hashes. I don't think he has the long speed to be a consistent burner, but he'll get open vertically at times as long as he has help from the rest of the offense to draw attention. He's also really impressive at breaking arm tackles for a guy his size and seems to get a lot of run after catch off of being able to make sharp cuts and increase the reach distance for a defender. Most years, he's #1 or 2, but I think any of the Bama guys have higher ceilings than him. He also tends to have a temper and pout a bit, which leads to both plays off and some dumb personal fouls. Reminds me a bit of Doug Baldwin. Laviska Shenault looks like a running back with the ball and seems to do a lot of damage in the first 15 yards of the line. He runs people over but is technically sharp enough to pop open space on anything from a slant, in, out, zig, roll, cross, or post if he's in man. He made his living the first year going vertical, but he's not fast enough to be a constant burner in the league, though a good double move for him would do wonders. I also love his hands, since he aggressively tries to grab catches in coverage like Lamb does but is big enough to out-muscle guys. My biggest concerns with him are mainly speed-based. I'm not sure he's a true #1 at the next level without really seeing him running against better corners weak to weak because the Pac-12 has like one team that does competent pass defense. He could be an Anquan Boldin type of player, but I also wouldn't be shocked if he turns into someone like Davante Parker where he's a physical specimen with some minor limits on playcalling. There's a drop in quality from here on to guys being more late first-early third in general quality. Justin Jefferson appears to be one of the best deep receivers I've ever seen in terms of making insane leaping catches and not dropping the ball. Dude made himself some money in the semis and frequently would cut routes at the last second just to make a sick catch. That type of timing takes a lot of rehearsal and body control, which bodes well for both his practice habits and potential repeatability. He's got enough speed to blow open crossing routes as well, as the Texas game showed. If I have to nitpick him a bit, I don't always love the way he runs shorter routes or plays where he isn't the main read, as he will sometimes loaf routes, but that's not uncommon play design in some passing systems now so it might not be him. He also has weird pad level against press where he almost tries to go high on defenders which leads to him starting routes high and having defenders closer than he would like, which can make life harder on him. He's a willing blocker, though the pad level thing comes back here too. If he can focus on staying in lower pad stance out of his breaks and using the similar hand technique from that vantage point, he could easily be with the upper 5. Calling him poor man's Odell feels a bit lazy, so consider perhaps a rich man's Chris Godwin or maybe a taller Stefon Diggs. Tee Higgins is the type-2 Clemson receiver of the long and gangly variety. He's a reeeeally good block for his size, particularly in their screen and edge game and plays with an awesome pad level. I also love his catch radius, because he frequently seems to go up against guys at the edge who keep up fine but Moss them on curls. That said, I do worry about his speed and finesse a bit. His routes are average and made up for by him being capable of circus catching over anyone if he knows the ball is coming, and I didn't see him blow by nearly as many dudes as I would hope for in that offense, which makes me think he's going to have to really hone his press getoff to godlike levels to get consistent action on Go routes that aren't meant to result in an immediate catch and tackle. He's not as good after the catch as some of the more vintage Clemson guys like Nuk or Watkins, which makes me think he's going to be an excellent #2 somewhere. Similar to Mike Williams if you stay within the school or N'Keal Harry if you want someone of a more recent vintage. Jalen Reagor is blindingly fast for TCU and a + return specialist. Slot fades, Gos, and Smoke are where he'll make his money. He's absolutely not big enough to play outside though, so he's going to have to learn to work out of the slot mainly, which is going to take some time. Additionally, he's a mediocre blocker and doesn't get off press well enough to consistently get open early, which is going to require a lot of technical fixes for him to be an every-down slow player. Limited route tree that's getting better in the TCU air raid. Teams will draft him to stash on returns and mix in the rotation for a year while training him. Could be Corey Coleman, could be Curtis Samuel. Antonio Gandy-Golden played absolutely no one for Liberty, but he frequently mossed dudes and made insane boundary and deep catches that showed impressive hands and ability to track the ball. He really got off press well but had like a 7 inch height advantage against guys so that's not surprising. Didn't really block that much but looked fine doing so, again with a length advantage. Concerns about his ability to go deep, which I understand given that he's not really burning guys even at a low G5 level, and he runs an extremely limited route tree in Freeze's offense which is going to probably create some issues. Went to Liberty so may have some bad takes. The dream is that you draft him and get someone in the vein of Jordy Nelson or Alshon Jeffrey, but him running slow could easily turn into a WR4 type who gets told to bulk up and try TE. Other guys: Chase Claypool is every recent tall, slower ND receiver with questionable hands despite being ostensibly a large posession receiver. Collin Johnson should've come out last year and is basically just a clone of LilJordan Humphrey Tyler Johnson is my sleeper pick where he re-wrote the record book at Minnesota and is extremely technically polished and skilled but may be maxing out his athleticism (which is still good). Gabe Davis from UCF makes some freaky catches but doesn't always separate in that offense, which I think is a combination of bad short footwork and lower top-end speed than you'd like. Michael Pittman is a standard USC receiver of average size and speed who will inexplicably hang around for years. Just call him Nelson Agholor/Steve Smith/whatever USC receiver I'm missing of that type. KJ Hill will run very slow and is undersized but is a capable blocker who runs outstanding routes within 10 yards with great hands. Van Jefferson is a sleeper who had inconsistent QB play at Florida but has the potential to be a late-round steal based on deceptive long speed and catch radius. Mental mistakes on drops and dumb penalties as well. Collins/DPJ from Michigan are both tall, fast prospects who don't run clean routes and have some focus issues but also had a terrible QB throwing to them so may get redemption at the next level. Most other guys at this point fall into either "prototype length, questions hands/speed/routes", "technically sound, but not physically up to it", or "fast, but limited" and are basically just gambling on your coaching staff.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:14
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https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1212800672694976512?s=20
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Jan 2, 2020 19:31
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Lamb reminds me a lot more of Michael Thomas than Doug Baldwin, not the least due to the fact that he's 4.5 inches taller than Baldwin (and nearly as tall as Thomas). I like his long yet muscular frame (he already looks more like an NFL wide receiver than most college guys) and his hands seem top notch. You can tell his strength by what he's able to do to defenders after the catch. For his size he's got pretty excellent speed (although I am curious to see the 40 time), but also he's not just a straight line speed guy because he has mad wiggle even at speed. I think he's gonna be really good in the NFL and is the main guy I'll be keeping an eye on. DariusLikewise posted:Confirmed, the best case scenario for Hebert is Josh Allen He doesn't even excite me as much as Josh Allen did. Allen had some truly special athleticism, Herbert looks stiff and slow compared to him as far as movement goes. Also, I don't really understand how Herbert is still doing that whole "point and shoot" high school rear end throwing motion with the elbows raised nearly to the ears. It doesn't look remotely professional but I think it may be the only thing actually keeping his passes on (or near) target. That's a bit worrying because rarely in the NFL will you be able to take a shotgun snap and stand nearly motionless waiting for guys to come open, which is what Herbert routinely seems to do as he stares down his first read. I know he can throw on the run to his right but I wonder how he is at other off-platform throws, just based on his throwing stance. I'm sure he could end up being fine but imo he's Drew Lock category (the fact that Lock has played okay notwithstanding, I just mean that's the kind of draft stock I think he deserves). No, I haven't watched all of his games or anything, that's just my impression from seeing him play occasionally this year
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Jan 2, 2020 19:43
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TheGreyGhost posted:It's an odd mid-point between the 2011 and 2015 drafts in terms of player types. There's a couple of guys who should be complete and ready to rol Great write up. I started watching WRs last night and I don't think Tee Higgins is that bad. He's pretty strong and bullies a lot of his competition, and has as good of hips as CeeDee Lamb. They both love the catch and spin move. He's also got the long legs like Jeudy and runs route similarly. Higgins also has a really good catch radius and makes some insane catches just like Lamb. His press coverage technique is really good too. Bunch of plays where he just dips through it and breaks out with his strength and acceleration. Really nice footwork too when it comes to his get off. Shenault's a weird prospect. They used him in a bunch of gadget plays and a few wildcats because he's a strong downhill runner. He doesn't really create separation though, at least from what I've seen. He'll be limited to underneath route work which will probably cap how high he goes in the draft. Still though screen WRs are extremely valuable with how the NFL is trending. There seems to be a bunch of strong after the catch guys this year. Jeudy, Higgins, Lamb, Reagor, Pittman, Tyler Johnson, Shenault, Edwards, Hightower. It's just stacked with guys that could probably do returns in the NFL. I think Nico Collins and DPJ are both better than people give them credit for, at least Collins more than DPJ. Shea Patterson loving blows and they had to deal with awful play all year. Collins burns people constantly despite looking ponderous when running. Huge guy, great footwork, strong hands. Attacks the ball well at the point of the catch and makes up for a ton of lovely lame duck throws from Patterson. Really just not afraid of contact or coverage and that's a good thing to have at the next level. They also kinda limited his route tree to short hitches and come backs a lot because again the offense blew but when he was let loose on deeper routes he looked pretty good. He's not going to be blazing fast but he's got the necessary speed to go down field. I think Ruggs is very underrated. Being able to take a slant that fast or get to the second level on a go route that quick is super underrated. The first route crowned OBJ the second crowned Desean Jackson. Combine the two and I don't get how people are hating on this guy. I understand track athletes usually suck at the next level but Ruggs displayed a ton of talent this year. They had him work the sidelines, work the mesh routes, he made quality defenders miss in the open field and was just blisteringly faster after the catch than everyone in the fastest conference. He does body catch way too much though and that'll hurt him, plus for some reason people didn't press him as much as they should have this year. Mississippi worked him all game and then Auburn goes and leaves him alone because they were terrified of Jeudy. Either way I feel like he'll definitely get snapped up in the mid teens by some hungry rear end WCO. I skip all Liberty games because gently caress that college so I'll have to watch Antonio Gandy-Golden.
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Jan 2, 2020 20:28
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Some Chiefs fans are already talking about taking a running back with the 28th pick and not guard or center like they should. Splash players smh
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Jan 2, 2020 20:30
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ShakeZula posted:Announcing your announcement date ahead of time usually means they stay, right? Matt Barkley is the only other one I can remember, and he stayed. Wouldn't be shocked. Smoke's building https://twitter.com/CannataPFN/status/1212881744850030592
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Jan 3, 2020 01:26
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This is great to read even if I have no idea how accurate any of it is, thanks dude
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Jan 3, 2020 08:09
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Does anyone have that full jets draft bloopers video?
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Jan 3, 2020 14:56
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It's literally the 1st thing that comes up on YouTube search. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxNeFLuY98
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Jan 3, 2020 15:00
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Isn't that truncated?
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Jan 3, 2020 15:01
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That's the only one I've ever seen unless someone updated it to include like Vernon Gholston/Quinton Coples/Dee Milliner, etc. Looking back at that video, I dont even think Jeff Lageman was a bad pick. 35 sacks in 6 years with the team. I'd kill for that production now.
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Jan 3, 2020 15:11
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Tua, buddy, you should declare for the draft so you can rehab a major injury with NFL training staff while getting paid millions of dollars and learning your teams offense so your transition isn’t being forced into action as a rookie on a bad team. As opposed to going back to school, risking a third injury, and probably not improving your stock significantly enough.
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Jan 3, 2020 16:36
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Isn't Tua guaranteed to be at best the 2nd QB next year too? What does he have to gain by staying at school
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Jan 3, 2020 16:40
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DariusLikewise posted:Isn't Tua guaranteed to be at best the 2nd QB next year too? What does he have to gain by staying at school Nick won't release the kompromat.
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Jan 3, 2020 18:15
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The Dolphins showed up to the Citrus Bowl with their GM, owner, and CEO. That seems like as much of a signal to Tua's camp as any that he wouldn't fall past #5 as you can get without breaking the rules. I imagine the thing that'd keep him there is a sense of loyalty and unfinished business.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:01
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Catfish Noodlin posted:I imagine the thing that'd keep him there is a sense of loyalty and unfinished business. Or a distinct reservation about being drafted by the Dolphins 
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Jan 3, 2020 19:18
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Play posted:Or a distinct reservation about being drafted by the Dolphins any team looking to draft a QB in the top 5 will always be bad, and if i were him i'd trust the dolphins a lot more than most of the usual suspects bungles browns jags lions etc PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 19:24
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PupsOfWar posted:any team looking to draft a QB in the top 5 will always be bad, and if i were him i'd trust the dolphins a lot more than most of the usual suspects There are actually some decent teams looking for quarterbacks soon though. Colts, Chargers maybe, Saints possibly, Pittsburgh will need one eventually for sure, Patriots as well, etc. I agree the Dolphins don't seem as bad a landing spot as they did a year or two ago but people are also giving them way more credit in that department that they deserve, mainly because they defeated the hated Patriots I was more being tongue in cheek though, if Tua goes back to college it will probably have more to do with college than anything he's thinking about the NFL.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:41
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PupsOfWar posted:any team looking to draft a QB in the top 5 will always be bad, and if i were him i'd trust the dolphins a lot more than most of the usual suspects Worst case scenario is he goes to the Redskins and they try to make him play football when a real medical staff wouldn't let him out of a hospital
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Jan 3, 2020 19:57
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Someone explain the Mekhi Becton boners. He's huge but from the samples I saw was consistently beat when guys went inside. I wouldn't expect a 370lbs tackle to get beat inside of all places.
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Jan 3, 2020 20:29
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Ches Neckbeard posted:Someone explain the Mekhi Becton boners. He's huge but from the samples I saw was consistently beat when guys went inside. I wouldn't expect a 370lbs tackle to get beat inside of all places. Well, you'd expect a 370 lb tackle to get beat by speed moves to either side, really, and hold up great against power rushers. Whether inside or outside makes less of a difference
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Jan 3, 2020 21:03
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PupsOfWar posted:any team looking to draft a QB in the top 5 will always be bad, and if i were him i'd trust the dolphins a lot more than most of the usual suspects
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Jan 4, 2020 04:49
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I wondered how deep the "Tua might stay" madness had taken hold, and my first class in Tuscaloosa this year confirmed it- I heard some insane fan bullshit like "he'll go back in the draft next year so Belichick can get him"
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Jan 4, 2020 05:06
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I'd be surprised if Tua goes back. His stocks at an all time high, he'll have NFL quality rehab, and there's a ton of teams that would easily want to trade up for him so it's not like the contract will be that bad. His tape is gold too so it's not like being healthy for the draft process is that big of a deal.
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Jan 4, 2020 05:42
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Miami sent everyone they could including Stephen goddamn Ross to the Citrus Bowl so i think he got the message - if you come out you’re going to go no lower than 5
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Jan 4, 2020 09:04
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Amy Pole Her posted:Miami sent everyone they could including Stephen goddamn Ross to the Citrus Bowl so i think he got the message - if you come out you’re going to go no lower than 5 I've seen this a couple of times, and I guess it is a message. But I'm imagining a bunch of Dolphins guys watching Tua on the sidelines with crutches and trying to come up with scouting reports about his recovery.
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Jan 4, 2020 09:08
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sourdough posted:This is great to read even if I have no idea how accurate any of it is, thanks dude Yeah, for real, that was entertaining.
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Jan 4, 2020 10:45
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Or they were scouting players in the actual game and Ross was there because he’s a True Michigan Man. Makes more sense than signaling.
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Jan 4, 2020 14:12
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Diva Cupcake posted:Or they were scouting players in the actual game and Ross was there because he’s a True Michigan Man. Makes more sense than signaling. They sent their CEO, HC, GM and Owner but yeah you’re probably. Curious what our CEO thinks of JJs release off the line
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Jan 4, 2020 15:06
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I guess the CEO is odd unless he was just tagging along. The other 3 all had very valid reasons to go to the game that had nothing to do with Tua when he wasn’t playing.
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Jan 4, 2020 15:22
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I love a good contrarian as much as anyone but you’re really trying to play gotcha when they’ve addressed all of these same basic rear end doubts. First time Ross has ever done this, and there has been plenty of opportunities to do so. The President of Operations even made the statement they are “working in a unified front” and like you said - weird they’d send two additional executives in Garfunkel and Grier. I guess it’s possible they decided to just do this randomly and carpool together but I think it’s more likely what they said. I dunno. Ultimately it was tongue in cheek, because his agent has absolutely been in touch with Miami and they’ve already had this conversation. Every single prospect down to the 7th rounders get this chatter.
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Jan 4, 2020 16:04
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It’s not a gotcha. I legitimately don’t think it’s that notable that a guy who has donated hundreds of millions to Michigan would go see one of their high profile bowl games with other executives from his football team who were probably going regardless (except the CEO) because a) big game with tons of draftable talent and b) super close to Miami.
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Jan 4, 2020 16:25
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There's no need to send an unspoken, public message when the entire league essentially runs on spoken, private communication. There's zero chance that Miami hasn't already talked to Tua's people about their plans. (Whether they were honest about them, of course.....)
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Jan 4, 2020 16:46
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