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That was just one good Doctor speech away from being one of the better 2 parters.
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Jan 6, 2020 06:25
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The_Doctor posted:Avoiding tripping into his own plans around the 70s/80s must have been the hardest. Staring with awe at Delgado's goatee, wondering why he's never been able to get it quite so good since then.
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Jan 6, 2020 06:33
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cargohills posted:i thought it was a load of crap. the off-screen resolution was like a parody of doctor who, they've regressed back to the RTD status quo wrt Gallifrey for no apparent reason, and Sacha Dhawan struggles to make much of an impression as the Master through the very dull writing. Seriously it was a mess. The Doctor spends too much time delivering exposition and then fixes things in a way that makes you wonder why they don't just do that every week. The companions don't accomplish anything but to be fair the Doctor also just stands there as the Master kills people. And the aliens' master plan is revealed and foiled so quickly it feels like an afterthought. Once again they're going to have to find a way to bring back Gallifrey. Why don't you just not destroy it so you don't have to inevitably undo it? Time Lords have always been telepathic but I don't think we've ever seen them having conversations over long distances before. It felt a bit ridiculous since they could've just kept using the telegraph. Also the Doctor can selectively erase people's memories by touching them, even though it's never really been a problem before for people from the past to remember the future. And you might as well let Noor Inayat Khan remember since she'd be dead in a year anyway.
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Jan 6, 2020 06:41
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That was interesting, but it kind of ended on a wet fart. Gallifrey is destroyed again? Or it's always been destroyed? I don't understand what is going on with Gallifrey anymore. Has there been a time in the show where Gallifrey was just normal and the doctor went back to it sometimes? For as long as I've watched it, it's been destroyed, stuck in a forever war, frozen in time, and now destroyed again. I honestly don't care about Gallifrey. I'm sure everyone living there is probably hosed up from being deleted from history over and over again. Do we need anything else with it? It being destroyed means nothing to me if terrible things always happen to it. Also, I didn't know about Noor Inayat Khan before this, and don't suggest looking her up if you don't want to be bummed out. She lasted 4 months as a spy before being betrayed by a double agent and was executed.
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Jan 6, 2020 07:35
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Haven't gotten to this season yet but just finished/finally watched series 11 after giving up on Who during Capaldi's last series. Doctor Who is awesome again. 11 was easily one of my favorite seasons of the show (if not my favorite.) Can't wait to start 12 tomorrow. Even the holiday episode was great. The character development is so much better now. Amazing the difference a showrunner makes.
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Jan 6, 2020 07:36
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Jerusalem posted:Nick Briggs thought of 4000 possible stories the moment that line came up. 150 of which don't even have Daleks in them! Probably
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Jan 6, 2020 07:40
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Hey wait a minute! I thought we were all in agreement it was good in here, the something awful doctor who thread where we all agree on everything all the time! 
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Jan 6, 2020 07:43
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Spyfall Part 2 Gifs                   I absolutely adore the moment the Master realizes he's turbo-hosed by his own words 
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Jan 6, 2020 09:22
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Action Jacktion posted:Seriously it was a mess. The Doctor spends too much time delivering exposition and then fixes things in a way that makes you wonder why they don't just do that every week. The companions don't accomplish anything but to be fair the Doctor also just stands there as the Master kills people. And the aliens' master plan is revealed and foiled so quickly it feels like an afterthought. Yeah. It's real bad. It "feels" more like Doctor Who, in that it's less trying to be HD Davies stories, but this doesn't feel like a show that's learned much from the Moffat era; it feels like the show was canceled in 2009 and this is the revival of the revival. Broadly things hang together better than last week, but man are there a ton of bad things on the outskirts. Let's take the Doctor's dumbass stance on morality (which has NEVER been pacifist in any sense of the word): shooting the Master, a multiple mass murderer, who will kill again, is bad. Trapping the Master in a weird brain forest for all eternity is good. Letting the Master, who is currently an Indian man, get arrested by the Nazis is good. Also, she's fine with Barton just slinking away, just like she was with not-Trump in the previous series, because to impede the progress of bad people is to become a bad person yourself. It's loving infuriating, and it comes from loving nowhere. The Doctor's always been averse to violence, but has never ruled it out as an option. "Have I the right?" In the end, he decided he did have the right and went back to pull the lever! The man who never would ended up picking up the loving gun! Also, everything about Gallifrey in this episode was stupid. Ooh, Rassilon's secretly an rear end in a top hat, what a radical take, flying in the face of previous depictions of him as a good and chill guy, such as ___________. And it's not even in a pocket dimension anymore, it was in the regular universe as of Hell Bent. EDIT: Oh, speaking of Hell Bent, remember how it was a whole episode about how it was bad for the Doctor to erase people's memories without their consent. Cause the Doctor doesn't! Rochallor fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jan 6, 2020 |
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Jan 6, 2020 09:51
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Oh yes, can't remember who said it, but the Master was definitely rocking some Hartnell style pants in his hologram message to the Doctor.
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Jan 6, 2020 11:27
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Not to mention his trademark pose.
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Jan 6, 2020 12:16
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Action Jacktion posted:And you might as well let Noor Inayat Khan remember since she'd be dead in a year anyway. Yeah, it felt unnecessary focusing on erasing their memories, no one was going to be calling that a loose end. Would have even been a bit more poignant if the Doctor had left Noor with her memories of a better future and Noor having a hint things might not turn out well for her but knowing that future is worth fighting for.
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Jan 6, 2020 12:57
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 Big Finish are doing deals on stories with Sacha Dhawan!
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Jan 6, 2020 13:48
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The only thing I didn't like was the "I bugged the Silver Figurine off-screen," but other than that my wife and I both HIGHLY enjoyed...well, drat near everything. One thing confuses me...so the Kasaavins' plan was to turn humanity into biological hard drives...for what purpose? Just to store all the information they've gathered while spying across their universe? And why was spying on the people who were critical to the development of the computer a thing? Just to ensure Barton had all the technology he needed for the rewrite? The Doctor, the companions, the Master, and the guest stars were great (I like how they wrote Charles Babbage's view of the Doctor's actions as "I see them, I believe them, however I don't understand them," or as I call it the Seth Gecko Rule), but the bad guys' plans...I feel like I'm missing something.
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Jan 6, 2020 14:07
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I really liked the Doctors sarcastic eyerolls as she was kneeling before the Master. Tennant or Smith would have made a big deal out it, playing it off as this huge battle of wills, but the way they did it made it clear that the Doctor really didn't give a poo poo about it. Was kind of a cool power move. Also the double drum roll at the Amazing Appearing Man!.....Lady!
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Jan 6, 2020 14:15
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happyhippy posted:1. Ok, some good Bill and Ted time fixing stuff. Like that. However how did the Doc know to put the stickers for Ryan to see? I just wanted to go back to this and point out: The Doctor doesn't necessarily need to know how she saved them from the crashing plane. If everything she ended up doing is a reasonable series of steps for her to do (and they are, in their way), then she can just trust that the choices she's naturally making are the right ones, because she already knows they worked. If her instinct is to put little plates to tell Ryan to look in a specific seat, then damnit, that'll work, because apparently it already did! I love every single time the show actually uses time travel as a problem-solving mechanism. It doesn't do it nearly as much as you'd assume a show about a time traveler would, so it's always a bit special. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jan 6, 2020 |
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Jan 6, 2020 15:09
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That was pretty good but I'm annoyed that they killed Gallifrey again. We get like one story with the Time Lords back and then we are back to the revival status quo. And this dark secret of the Time Lords storyline sounds like some The Other poo poo.
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Jan 6, 2020 15:17
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I'm not entirely convinced the Master didn't somehow redirect the Doctor's TARDIS back to the middle of the Time War.Maxwell Lord posted:ANOTHER episode about phones-but-too-much A lot of those earlier episodes felt like "millennials are on your drat phones too much and you need to put them down", which is sort of blustering about nothing. This episode, on the other hand, didn't treat technology as a bad thing, just the companies who abuse it. "Corporations are tracking every detail of your online presence and will use this information, which is actually a huge violation of privacy if you think about it" is true, an important thing to make people aware of, and a message that's very appropriate to Who.
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Jan 6, 2020 15:20
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I’m fully in favour of Chibnall bringing back the Cartmel Masterplan. LOOMS fractalairduct posted:A lot of those earlier episodes felt like "millennials are on your drat phones too much and you need to put them down", which is sort of blustering about nothing. This episode, on the other hand, didn't treat technology as a bad thing, just the companies who abuse it. "Corporations are tracking every detail of your online presence and will use this information, which is actually a huge violation of privacy if you think about it" is true, an important thing to make people aware of, and a message that's very appropriate to Who. Which is a hell of a lot better than ‘Amazon is good actually’ from last season. 
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Jan 6, 2020 15:20
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Rochallor posted:Yeah. It's real bad. It "feels" more like Doctor Who, in that it's less trying to be HD Davies stories, but this doesn't feel like a show that's learned much from the Moffat era; it feels like the show was canceled in 2009 and this is the revival of the revival. Broadly things hang together better than last week, but man are there a ton of bad things on the outskirts. There are foundational moral problems in a show of this kind where the main character can actually steer the TARDIS. Why not rescue every single person from the concentration camps and drop them on another planet? Why not save everyone from every disaster? The “drastic alteration to the timeline” excuse seems both to hold true and to get entirely ignored. Barton slinking away is fine because he was nowhere near where the Doctor was. Does spending the money showing him getting arrested improve the story? Showing him getting away could be setup for a return later. Is the Doctor really supposed to be concerned about what the Nazis will do to the Master? I thought the real danger there would be that he’d bargain some of his technological knowledge for release; evidently the Master is also in “don’t risk altering the timeline” mode save for his original scheme. Similar situation with the “exile” at the end. Does anyone seriously believe that the Master won’t escape? How is walking into that climactic scene with a gun and shooting him dead dramatically interesting? The character operates by the rules of narrative logic and has been “killed” again and again. Severing his new alliance and getting a bit of dramatic irony is more satisfying. And it’s interesting to see an objection on the level of “why not shoot him” and not on the level of “why not try to redeem him since we know that’s got a better chance than keeping him dead?” Shooting somebody in real life is almost never the end to a problem, even if television keeps insisting otherwise; we could use more examples of alternatives, even if they too aren’t morally simplistic but get presented as if they are.
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Jan 6, 2020 16:14
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The_Doctor posted:I’m fully in favour of Chibnall bringing back the Cartmel Masterplan. 
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Jan 6, 2020 16:43
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Narsham posted:There are foundational moral problems in a show of this kind where the main character can actually steer the TARDIS. Why not rescue every single person from the concentration camps and drop them on another planet? Why not save everyone from every disaster? The “drastic alteration to the timeline” excuse seems both to hold true and to get entirely ignored. Hence the Doctor's epiphany back in Death In Heaven: "I am an idiot!" ie "I have ultimate power but I don't have the right to use it, because I'm just some rear end in a top hat." It's something that has to be built in to a show like this because who the character is, and therefore what real-life atrocity they may want to erase, is at the mercy of whoever is writing them
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Jan 6, 2020 17:24
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I'm glad to see a longer story, I didn't realize how much I missed the 2-parters. I like episodic stuff because so much of TV is serial now but resolving everything in exactly one hour made last season feel rushed. I also think my comment about Yaz just sort of being there actually meant she felt like a normal Who companion in Part 2. Looking at the thing as a whole the parts that fell flat were unneccesary, like the super nonthreatening men in black whose cars didn't even match or the low speed motorcycle chase on one of California's many dirt roads that connect mansions to airports. Basically almost all the "spy" poo poo just fell flat [except laser shoes]. I was super hoping the Master found a way to put Gallifrey back to how it was when the Doctor destroyed it. At least the Vague Ominous Prophecy that will Surely Disappoint wasn't delivered in a whispered rhyming singsong 
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Jan 6, 2020 17:45
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Why, when presented with something they didnt particularly like, do so many goons immediately jump to the simile "A wet fart"? I think some people need to take better care of their digestion.The_Doctor posted:Which is a hell of a lot better than ‘Amazon is good actually’ from last season. I'm not going to address the frankly ridiculous other part of your post, but this... I had a real worry in my mind that they were going to pull out an "actually google is your friend!" out of nowhere 10 minutes from the end, just like that "amazon is good!" episode. Very glad they didnt. marktheando posted:That was pretty good but I'm annoyed that they killed Gallifrey again. We get like one story with the Time Lords back and then we are back to the revival status quo. And this dark secret of the Time Lords storyline sounds like some The Other poo poo. My preferred status for Gallifrey is "It exists, the time lords live there, the doctor could visit, but doesn't". I'm not overly fussed about killing it off or not (we all know it wont stick anyway, sooner or later this or a future showrunner will bring it back), but I am very very wary of this "dark secret of the time lords" stuff. I always think its a little... I dont know, arrogant maybe? To take a show and a character which has existed for more than half a century, and decide that you are the one who will finally nail down the definitive origin of things which have existed for most of that time, answering mysteries which have been unanswered for longer than you have been alive. And that your ideas will be the one that everyone likes and no-one retcons as soon as you are not in charge any more, unlike all the other failed attempts before you (LOOMS). I also include in this category the stuff Moffat (who I generally liked) decided to put in about the doctors childhood, and the stuff RTD put in about the master having been driven mad by the time vortex. I think everyone who is in charge of the modern show is desperate to have some little corner that will always be theirs of the doctors origins, to the point where it can easily get in the way of making the episode around it good.
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Jan 6, 2020 18:22
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SiKboy posted:Why, when presented with something they didnt particularly like, do so many goons immediately jump to the simile "A wet fart"? I think some people need to take better care of their digestion. Because "a wet fart" perfectly sums it up. You think you're about to get a loud, trumpeting fart, but then you instead need to change your underwear.
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Jan 6, 2020 18:50
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A wet fart is like, not even one of the good kinds of fart. Like if it had to be a fart it could have been a way better fart than this
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Jan 6, 2020 18:52
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Jerusalem posted:Staring with awe at Delgado's goatee, wondering why he's never been able to get it quite so good since then. Can confirm goatees are a nightmare to maintain, but I did get complimented on mine at New Years
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Jan 6, 2020 19:24
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Doctor who: chats about, excuse me, farts
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Jan 6, 2020 20:00
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I didnt really dig that so much. It kind of saddens me that the show isn't speaking to me anymore.
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Jan 6, 2020 20:02
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I loved it! We got our bombast back, they played 13's theme when she was clever, we're back into continuity mattering, and the Tardis improvements have softened my stance on it being the worst. But those things, and the plot? While great? That's all window dressing. The real interesting stuff is the character beats. 13 regenerated and really enjoyed her new self, and seemed more comfortable than most post-regenderation Doctors. She even made herself vulnerable immediately and made friends. And she called them friends. Not travelling companions. They were her mates. But now she's realizing that a new beginning for her doesn't mean her past never happened. It's catching up with her. And her new friends are becoming curious about her past. I know I bring up my trans experience a lot, but I don't think I'm reaching when I say this is all relatable in a big, bad way. And Jodie is just so much fun to watch.
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Jan 6, 2020 22:36
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happyhippy posted:1. Ok, some good Bill and Ted time fixing stuff. Like that. However how did the Doc know to put the stickers for Ryan to see? 1) She knows where to put the stickers, because they survived because of where she put the stickers. (cue Peri: "Circular logic will only make you dizzy.") 2) He killed those fuckers before they made it off the Eiffel Tower. He's the Master. Some jackbooted thugs aren't a threat to him. 3) The Master doesn't have a bond with his TARDIS that the Doctor does with hers. In fact, who's to say that his TARDIS hasn't been enslaved to his will and is fighting him? happyhippy posted:Why didn't the Master just then help the Nazis win WW2? That would've messed the plans he already had in motion with Kasaavins.
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Jan 7, 2020 00:17
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Also, the Master probably doesn't care enough about human conflicts to actually bother influencing most of them. Why should he care about World War 2, except as a backdrop to gently caress with the Doctor in front of? Which gets a largely separate answer right at the end: if you don't care about the world you land in, the Doctor will gently caress you up with the fact she does. I really like that her way of beating the Master was going 'so it turns out this is World War 2, and you're not gonna enjoy World War 2'.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:49
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Davros1 posted:
He flew down. Romana was telling the truth.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:39
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The_Doctor posted:He flew down. Romana was telling the truth. I am now picturing this Master sitting in a cafe in Paris brooding when Four and Romana come running past. Then a timeslip occurs and he spills his coffee. Basically, I’m hoping this becomes the disgruntled Master. Delgado was suave, egg-face single-minded, Ainley was erratic, Roberts was arch and camp, Jacobi a vicious nerd, Simm a hyperactive nerd, Gomez evil Mary Poppins, and now Dhawan can be the insanely frustrated Master. Found out a Time Lord secret? Urrrgh! Doctor stranded him for 77 years? Arrrgh! Doctor wanders in and defeats his plot while getting his allies to turn on him? Errrrrm. I want to see this Master snap. I want to see the point where he just throws up his hands and says, “fine, now I’m going to do something nice and dare you to stop me.” I want to see him working with the Doctor out of spite. I want him to help her recover the Time Lords so that he can see her give them a scolding and strip them of their power. And then he shoots one of them for no reason. I want Dhawan to play this Master like Sideshow Bob in a yard full of rakes. He’s just settled down for a nice calm plan execution, and then *thwock!*
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Jan 7, 2020 05:51
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One of the best things about the Master's plans to gently caress over the Doctor is that eventually they reach a point where he has to (for his own ego) reveal to the Doctor that she's in the middle of one of his plans to gently caress her over.... at which point she promptly figures everything out and screws him over instead.
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Jan 7, 2020 06:00
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So, I've really really enjoyed these last two episodes, after finding myself pretty bored for a lot of the last series. It feels like the Doctor Who I like watching is back. I'm very happy about that. But, also, I'm feeling really weird about that bit where The Doctor, off of Doctor Who, dobbed-in a POC to 1940s nazis and then flew away, and the next time we saw that POC, he described having had to escape from... what sounded to me like concentration camps. Is that not the single biggest "but that character, and this series, would never do that" moment in the whole show so far? Shouldn't someone, be it Chibnall or whoever directed it, or the producers, someone, have said no, we're not doing that? It feels pretty cleanly like something they shouldn't have done, but I'm seeing very little mention of it here or on twitter, so I'm starting to doubt myself, like I just didn't understand what happened. Maybe I'm just so used to every little thing being savaged on social media, and it's actually not a bad thing for a popular scifi property to put a foot wrong without a massive backlash... but I'm not sure this time. When I have found discussions of it (which I've had to search for), I've seen people say "the way I interpreted it, the Doctor just removed the layer of trickery that was making nazis think he was their boss," and then other people go "I mean, maybe, but it seemed to me like she removed the filter that made them see him as aryan," and the discussion stops there. But like, that comment he made when he turned up near the end. "The 20th century has been hard to live through. The places I've had to escape from." She got him sent to the camps, right? Didn't she? It's really making me feel weird about this episode. Not in a "I'm cross with them" way (until I'm sure), more in a "hang on, SURELY not" way. Like if one of the main characters had randomly had their genitals fully visible for a whole scene or something, and all that happened afterwards was a couple of people on twitter went "odd decision, oh well" and left it at that. Edit - I like the idea above that the Master just immediately killed the nazis and got away, but... even if I'm interpreting his speech wrong, the Doctor did still do it and I suppose I just think that's... alarmingly out of character? Perhaps I'm just feeling weird because I told a Jewish friend of a friend who was wondering whether to get back into the series that the new year episode was really good... Buml0r fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 17:02
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Aren't we supposed to be getting an episode centered around the Holocaust this series? That's gonna be a fun minefield to navigate - or did people hear rumors of World War II and immediately said HOLOCAUST while it's just some Nazis showing up here?
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Jan 7, 2020 17:23
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Buml0r posted:So, I've really really enjoyed these last two episodes, after finding myself pretty bored for a lot of the last series. It feels like the Doctor Who I like watching is back. I'm very happy about that. He’s the Master. Vinylshadow posted:Aren't we supposed to be getting an episode centered around the Holocaust this series? I think people just assumed that from finding out Noor Inayat Khan was going to be in an episode, since she died in a concentration camp IRL.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:37
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I really enjoyed the episode, but I'm hoping the Time Lords come back into existence by season's end. I'd hate for Chibnall to undo the Day of the Doctor by saying "the Master later killed everyone". Unless Chibnall is playing the long game for the 60th Anniversary 
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Jan 7, 2020 21:01
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60th Anniversary: Day of the Doctors Nine, Ten, Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen, River, Simms, Gomez, and Dhawan team up to unscrew Gallifrey The Timeless Child is Tom Baker, completely unscripted
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Jan 7, 2020 21:05
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