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https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/eky2jr/star_wars_rebels_sequel_information/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share hell yes if true and also 100x more interesting than the ST
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Jan 6, 2020 21:55
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Mike RLM's fan canon was this is the real Palpatine and the one from episodes 1-6 was a clone the whole time. I'll add to that and say he was Syfo-dias Why do people watch that crap? It's like a half-step above CinemaSins.
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Jan 6, 2020 22:03
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Halloween Jack posted:If that were true, it wouldn't even mean that Sheev Palpatine was fake, just that Palpatine is a demonic entity possessing multiple bodies. Which is already true. It's his half drunk stream of consciousness rambling trying to understand what he just watched, not a serious theory he's going to put time into and make videos about
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Jan 6, 2020 22:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So this leads us to the next thing: Is Lucas' "They died" joke subversive? Because ultimately that's what JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson went with. The events depicted in the OT are the most important and interesting things they ever did, afterwards they died failing to live up to their previous achievements.
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Jan 6, 2020 22:16
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I mean, everyone dies
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Jan 6, 2020 22:27
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It's not a rhetorical question, I don't have a strong position on it. On the one hand, in the story that quote is from the people in the Q&A are disappointed by Lucas' answer, so we can say that their expectations were subverted, but then again aren't their expectations unreasonable?
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Jan 6, 2020 22:36
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Mike RLM's fan canon was this is the real Palpatine and the one from episodes 1-6 was a clone the whole time. I'll add to that and say he was Syfo-dias I find this more acceptable than Palpatine's body somehow surviving the Death Star explosion. It would even make sense given that we see that Palpatine was growing Snokes in vats and the cloning technology is normal in the Star Wars universe. When Palpatine says that dark side is a path to unnatural abilities, it might as well mean that it allowed him to transfer his consciousness between bodies or inhabit multiple bodies. I would still prefer the interpretation of Palpatine as a crafty guy who managed to maneuver his way to the top thanks to his planning abilities and a little luck. He never had the power to create life or cheat death, he just bullshited Anakin to get him on board. Palpatine as some kind of ultimate evil avatar is boring.
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Jan 6, 2020 22:46
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Rey Skywalker is, the Palpateen.
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Jan 6, 2020 23:10
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pospysyl posted:It's not a rhetorical question, I don't have a strong position on it. On the one hand, in the story that quote is from the people in the Q&A are disappointed by Lucas' answer, so we can say that their expectations were subverted, but then again aren't their expectations unreasonable? Same way Anakin's expectations were subverted in Revenge of the Sith.
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Jan 6, 2020 23:20
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Mike N Eich posted:I think its really funny they didn't give any reason for why Palpatine was back - they knew whatever answer they gave would be so loving stupid they left it completely empty and let you fill in the (dumb) details They do give a reason, the dark magics or w/e line said by the hobbit. He's an evil space wizard with an evil space cult. Besides, he's not even the first Sith to come back from the dead.
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Jan 6, 2020 23:30
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It's not subversive if you're parroting the original movies. It's also not subversive if you just do brief lip service to a subversive idea but go nowhere with it. We call that intellectually lazy and appealing to the cult of the amateur.
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Jan 6, 2020 23:30
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PeterWeller posted:They do give a reason, the dark magics or w/e line said by the hobbit. He's an evil space wizard with an evil space cult. Besides, he's not even the first Sith to come back from the dead. They don’t give a reason, they throw out several potential reasons.
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Jan 7, 2020 00:26
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Halloween Jack posted:Kylo believes in Vader's mission to bring order to the galaxy via dictatorship. ... Crazy Kylo and Kylo who sincerely believes dictatorship is the way to go aren't at odds. And it isn't like TFA was the first glimpse of him practically frothing at the mouth. In the name of redemption, RoS really mellowed him out, which is honestly probably the worst character beat in a movie full of them. We've seen plenty of cold, calculating dark side users. This one that's just all pissed off rage was cool because it was different! Boxman fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 00:47
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Here's 5 pages of The Rise of Kylo Ren #2 via the Marvel website: https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/star-wars-the-rise-of-kylo-ren-2-preview-pages
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Jan 7, 2020 00:53
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Captain Jesus posted:I find this more acceptable than Palpatine's body somehow surviving the Death Star explosion. It would even make sense given that we see that Palpatine was growing Snokes in vats and the cloning technology is normal in the Star Wars universe. When Palpatine says that dark side is a path to unnatural abilities, it might as well mean that it allowed him to transfer his consciousness between bodies or inhabit multiple bodies. This actually reminds me of the Imperial Radch series by Ann Leckie. A single emperor overseeing a galaxy would kind of be terrible, so the empire is ruled by many clones of one emperor that are all kept in sync over the vast reaches of space to keep a united front. Until they fall out of sync and the emperor ends up in a civil war with herself. Which is a way better Star Wars plot than what we got.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:26
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General Dog posted:They don’t give a reason, they throw out several potential reasons. Those reasons are all essentially synonymous with "evil Sith stuff." The point is the specific mechanism doesn't matter.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:34
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JagerNinja posted:This actually reminds me of the Imperial Radch series by Ann Leckie. A single emperor overseeing a galaxy would kind of be terrible, so the empire is ruled by many clones of one emperor that are all kept in sync over the vast reaches of space to keep a united front. Until they fall out of sync and the emperor ends up in a civil war with herself. Which is a way better Star Wars plot than what we got.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:51
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2house2fly posted:I think the specific reasons behind it was what bugged people, I've read a lot of "they made Luke into a child murderer!" People probably assumed Luke was blameless and was hiding out on the island planet because he was scared of the villains or something Well, in TFA we didn't know why Luke had disappeared, it was another mystery box. All we knew was Ben turned bad, him and his friends blew up the temple and massacred the students, and Luke went into hiding. As far as i recall, it was implied he left a breadcrumb to be found while he was off meditating or trying to get to the bottom of...something, like the rest of the ST everything about this was poorly thought out, but I don't think it was ever specifically clear it was his failure, beyond the standard "Teacher failed to prevent the evil mastermind from turning student into a school shooter" trope that was abundant in the EU. Like you say, people assumed Luke had a reason for going into hiding, to plan the next step, meditate, figure out the next step, etc. It was then Rian Johnson that decided it would be totally neat if Luke almost murdered his nephew and the son of his dearest friends. I just want to pause here for a second to say what. the. gently caress. This guy was willing to give Vader the benefit of the doubt, but he has one vision and decides to go off his nephew? After all the poo poo he went through, he's the last Jedi (heh) or person in the franchise to make that loving choice. Then, to compound the issue, he not only lies about it when confronted so we can have that dumb Rashomon thing, but he also never said anything about it to Han and Leia. JJ set up his mystery box, then Rian took a dump in it. I can see why it cheesed people off
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Jan 7, 2020 01:56
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Its fine because the attack never comes up again in the third film and apparently in cannon now its unrelated to Kylo Ren
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Jan 7, 2020 01:57
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Ben setting Luke's temple on fire has been retconned in the Rise of Kylo Ren comic.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:58
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I mean, it's not like the movie is saying it's a good thing that Luke contemplated murder.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:59
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Its understandable that the whole thing gets centered around Ben, but it’s actually even more hosed up when you consider all the other dead and missing children whose parents evidently merited luke’s apology or explanation even less than what han and leia belatedly half assedly got
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Jan 7, 2020 02:03
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He didn't give Vader the benefit of the doubt. He tried to kill him multiple times. He beat his rear end down mercilessly and chopped off his hand. He also didn't decide to kill Ben.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:04
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Halloween Jack posted:, and being extra tall (to hold all the midichlorians). the power of bigger Luke cannot be denied
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Jan 7, 2020 02:04
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teagone posted:Ben setting Luke's temple on fire has been retconned in the Rise of Kylo Ren comic. I'm aware of the existence of that comic, but even though I hate it I'm gonna echo the RLM review here and say if it didn't happen in the film, it didn't happen at all. I don't care if it's in a novel or comic book or breakfast cereal tie in, Disney need to stop spreading out the story over 20 different mediums to cash in on fans desperately buying this stuff in the hopes it will fix the "plot holes" and offer a coherent narrative
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Jan 7, 2020 02:06
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Bongo Bill posted:I mean, it's not like the movie is saying it's a good thing that Luke contemplated murder. The act of letting that darkness in for a fleeting moment sent Luke into exile too. It hosed with him. Hard.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:07
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McCloud posted:Disney need to stop spreading out the story over 20 different mediums to cash in on fans desperately buying this stuff in the hopes it will fix the "plot holes" and offer a coherent narrative
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Jan 7, 2020 02:11
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McCloud posted:Well, in TFA we didn't know why Luke had disappeared, it was another mystery box. All we knew was Ben turned bad, him and his friends blew up the temple and massacred the students, and Luke went into hiding. This is definitely a loose end that they just gave up on for now good reason other than Rian wanted to go in a different direction.The situation in TFA is that Luke was out searching for an answer to the First Order and the Dark Side, not that he just retired in despair, but the rebellion is on the ropes and needs him back now whether he has found the answer or not. McCloud posted:It was then Rian Johnson that decided it would be totally neat if Luke almost murdered his nephew and the son of his dearest friends. I just want to pause here for a second to say what. the. gently caress. This guy was willing to give Vader the benefit of the doubt, but he has one vision and decides to go off his nephew? After all the poo poo he went through, he's the last Jedi (heh) or person in the franchise to make that loving choice. Luke explicitly lost his poo poo and almost killed Vader at the mere idea that Vader and Palpatine would kill his friends, corrupt his sister, and plunge the galaxy into even greater darkness. That he felt the same rage and despair at finding out that his nephew was being suborned right under his nose but stopped himself from actually doing violence is a sign of growth and character development, even in a moment of weakness. How many times does this have to be laid out? Caught the Cloud City duel randomly today and noticed that Luke injures Vader in his right shoulder during their fight, after which Vader goes beast mode on him. Same thing happens in TFA - Finn gets a lucky slash and injures Kylo in the right shoulder, who then gets enraged and lays Finn out in short order. Nice little callback. Skywalkers need to work on that guard on their right.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:12
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2house2fly posted:He didn't give Vader the benefit of the doubt. He tried to kill him multiple times. He beat his rear end down mercilessly and chopped off his hand. He also didn't decide to kill Ben. That's exactly what he did. His first meeting with Vader after Empire he's working on redeeming him. During the throne room, there are two times he's actively attacking Vader. Right after the emperor goads him into trying to kill him (which Vader stops), and he stops when he realizes he's being lured into being aggressive. After that he's only defending and evading and only really goes ham on Vader only after Vader goads him into it by threatening Leia. His intent was always to save Anakin, not to kill Vader. We rate your statement 4/5 pinochios
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Jan 7, 2020 02:14
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Luke’s character arc is not that bad, get over it.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:17
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Mat Cauthon posted:Luke explicitly lost his poo poo and almost killed Vader at the mere idea that Vader and Palpatine would kill his friends, corrupt his sister, and plunge the galaxy into even greater darkness. That he felt the same rage and despair at finding out that his nephew was being suborned right under his nose but stopped himself from actually doing violence is a sign of growth and character development. How many times does this have to be laid out? It's not only this, but like, it pained Luke that he found himself teetering on the edge of the Dark Side for the briefest of moments. It pained him so much that he hosed off to Ach-To, ultimately feeling that he was too dangerous to be left alive and selfishly deciding that the lineage of the Jedi order would end with him. That poo poo with Ben broke him. And I love that exploration of the character and how he would have to overcome that. I certainly find it more interesting than just turning Luke into some super sage ultra-wise badass Jedi grandmaster. Iconoclast Luke owns something fierce.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:18
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If Luke had been included just to be some wise sage waiting for his chosen one to show up, then the ST would have been just literally a repeat of the OT and would be even more worthless than it already is. It's like how Khan is the big reveal in Star Trek: Into Darkness. When the new Star Trek movies started, the callbacks were like "ok, I guess we're getting people used to the characters again", but it became obvious with 2 that what was really happening was remaking the films, only more confusing, stupid, and overproduced.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:23
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In TFA luke abandoned his closest friends and family and left the galaxy at the mercy of his failed student and the new empire to live on an island. He didnt tell any of his friends and family what he was doing, they only speculated that he was maybe trying to track down jedi poo poo (and he did so he could die there) even the most generous reading of the mystery box tfa set up has Luke being a massive piece of poo poo coward. TLJ atleast gives him some character arc to explain why he would do that. Look at Lando in TROS if Luke were merely off searching for answers hed take lando or r2 or han and chewie with him.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:30
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McCloud posted:That's exactly what he did. His first meeting with Vader after Empire he's working on redeeming him. During the throne room, there are two times he's actively attacking Vader. Right after the emperor goads him into trying to kill him (which Vader stops), and he stops when he realizes he's being lured into being aggressive. After that he's only defending and evading and only really goes ham on Vader only after Vader goads him into it by threatening Leia. His intent was always to save Anakin, not to kill Vader.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:43
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teagone posted:It's not only this, but like, it pained Luke that he found himself teetering on the edge of the Dark Side for the briefest of moments. It pained him so much that he hosed off to Ach-To, ultimately feeling that he was too dangerous to be left alive and selfishly deciding that the lineage of the Jedi order would end with him. That poo poo with Ben broke him. And I love that exploration of the character and how he would have to overcome that. I certainly find it more interesting than just turning Luke into some super sage ultra-wise badass Jedi grandmaster. Iconoclast Luke owns something fierce. hah, imagine if they had written this as a script and then filmed it!
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Jan 7, 2020 02:49
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teagone posted:It's not only this, but like, it pained Luke that he found himself teetering on the edge of the Dark Side for the briefest of moments. It pained him so much that he hosed off to Ach-To, ultimately feeling that he was too dangerous to be left alive and selfishly deciding that the lineage of the Jedi order would end with him. That poo poo with Ben broke him. And I love that exploration of the character and how he would have to overcome that. I certainly find it more interesting than just turning Luke into some super sage ultra-wise badass Jedi grandmaster. Iconoclast Luke owns something fierce. this happened in return of the jedi op
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Jan 7, 2020 03:27
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teagone posted:Ben setting Luke's temple on fire has been retconned in the Rise of Kylo Ren comic. Actually Disney can't even agree on this and the only remaining member of the "Story Group" on Twitter is claiming Ben still burnt down the temple, just unintentionally by calling down the lightning with his anger. I just find it hilarious that despite having a story group supposedly overseeing everything, they can't even keep the comics and books in line with themselves, let alone the movies.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:41
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2house2fly posted:So by "actively attacking" Vader, "being aggressive" and "going ham" Luke was demonstrating himself to be a committed pacifist? 2house2fly posted:He didn't give Vader the benefit of the doubt. He tried to kill him multiple times. He beat his rear end down mercilessly and chopped off his hand. He also didn't decide to kill Ben. So by sparing vader, pleading to his father and saying "i sense good in you" he is demonstrating himself to not give Vader the benefit of the doubt? See, I can be disingenuous too! Mat Cauthon posted:Luke explicitly lost his poo poo and almost killed Vader at the mere idea that Vader and Palpatine would kill his friends, corrupt his sister, and plunge the galaxy into even greater darkness. That he felt the same rage and despair at finding out that his nephew was being suborned right under his nose but stopped himself from actually doing violence is a sign of growth and character development, even in a moment of weakness. How many times does this have to be laid out? The circumstances are a tad bit different though, aren't they? Let's charitably assume Sheev-o isn't using some dumb force manipulation to seduce Luke but is just sticking to good old fashioned manipulation. Lukes friends are in immediate danger, the rebels are losing, his father is being a dick, he is all alone with no one coming to help him and in it all, despite Vader pushing juuust the right buttons, he still restrains himself, tosses away his saber and Trusts that things will work out. Meanwhile, 16 years of experience and wisdom later, in the calm dead of night he sees a vision of his nephew becoming a sith and his immediate response is "oh poo poo, gotta nip this in the bud by killing him". Never mind that by now he should drat well know force visions are unreliable. I understand that for a lot of people this works and is consistent with how younger brasher Luke acted. But let's not pretend that it's unreasonable to think it's out of character for him either. Halloween Jack posted:Disney's greed doesn't explain why the films are incoherent. They'd still be releasing tie-ins if the films were masterpieces that could only be hurt by spinoffs, because the tie-ins will turn a profit. Yeah, it's infuriating how they put in these little plot hooks in the films and then explore them in tie ins to make more money, because it's the movies that suffer for that kind of stuff in the end.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:54
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Horizon Burning posted:this happened in return of the jedi op Yeah. And that Luke was tempted by the dark side again years later affected him so. The realization that he could still find himself on the brink of darkness after however triumphant he felt declaring himself a Jedi like his father creates some nice character conflict to tell a story through. I think it works. Using Luke's character and his failures to further explore the Jedi/Sith Light/Dark dichotomy was a great decision imo. Vim Fuego posted:hah, imagine if they had written this as a script and then filmed it! Oh poo poo! teagone fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 03:59
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Horrible Taste posted:Actually Disney can't even agree on this and the only remaining member of the "Story Group" on Twitter is claiming Ben still burnt down the temple, just unintentionally by calling down the lightning with his anger. Interesting. It was depicted as fairly vague wrt Ben being the one directly responsible for burning down the temple. The most important characterizing bit introduced though was that Ben did not mean for it to happen.
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Jan 7, 2020 04:02
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