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Dabir posted:he has his arse hanging out of his trousers So do I
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Jan 7, 2020 15:46
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Jose posted:find me a better game theme song than cannon fodder Gods - Into the wonderful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kAXGjUwHyA
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Jan 7, 2020 15:47
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Writing off the Scottish vote is a great start https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1214489482281594880?s=19
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Jan 7, 2020 15:56
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JessFlaps is so amazingly useless. I'm terrified of the damage she could do as Labour leader.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:00
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Jose posted:Writing off the Scottish vote is a great start "I cant understand why a nation that isnt listened to wouldnt want to stay like that" Its because you are thick as mince Jess
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Jan 7, 2020 16:08
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her response seems... fine? decent even, she handles herself pretty well I don't see her going to pieces anywhere. the question is pretty stupid to begin with. why didnt she leave if she thought corbyn couldn't win? well turns out she was right to think people wouldn't vote for corbyn and now shes in the running for leadership which is fairly evidently why she was staying in. she does presumably go into a bit about how she agrees with a lot of the policies anyway, which is edited out, and like them or not she does represent a cohort of labour members who woudnt be served if she wasn't there which is the point she finishes on and is correct.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:08
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Junior G-man posted:JessFlaps is so amazingly useless. I'm terrified of the damage she could do as Labour leader. I might be jumping the gun here, but the feeling I'm getting is that this is going to be a straight Bailey/Starmer showdown and everyone else is the comic interlude. Flips is going to be the Kendall of the group, I think. (I had to go and look up who 2015's fourth candidate had been because I'd literally forgotten Liz Kendall's name lol). Jess might have stood a chance as the soulless but effective political animal if the membership were sufficiently shook by the election result, but apparently she can't even sell that, so.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:09
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She really makes me feel like she's fully bought the lie the press have sold her that she's useful and matters, because she's willing to tgive them the stories they want. As soon as she's not she's going to have an uncomfortable landing.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:11
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Guavanaut posted:
VILE SLANDER
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Jan 7, 2020 16:12
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i wish we could just do the full female leadership contest, even just as a small gesture since it seems like none of the leadership candidates are as inspiring as corbyn and we're in a position that almost guarantees defeat at the next GE anyway i'm concerned its just gonna be starmer as people hedge their bets, rightfully wary of both corbynism and the labour right. then we're gonna end up with a charisma-less void caretaker and the party doesnt advance in either direction. I guess you could go for worse options considering. how much does the leader actually matter if the membership maintains control? I assume it could matter a lot if theyr totally hostile, but if not then presumably it doesnt matter a whole bunch, the work of turning the party into a left democratic organ will continue. I just think at this point asking people to vote for the 3rd most popular successor (possibly 4th if you include clive) to corbyn is a bit of an ask considering what we just went through, I wouldn't blame the membership at large for being wary, even I am. I'd like a new direction thanks, stay left but try a different tack to win this time. i assume like a lot of posters itt i've been through a dark period of reflection and would like to see that... reflected by the labour left, not just "it woz brexit and sabotage, same again". we got loving savaged, we know blairism doesnt work but now we know corbynism doesnt either. time for something new.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:32
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Communist Thoughts posted:i wish we could just do the full female leadership contest, even just as a small gesture since it seems like none of the leadership candidates are as inspiring as corbyn and we're in a position that almost guarantees defeat at the next GE anyway The problem is we're not getting a new left direction (well we might, let's not prejudge LRB, but probably not since the media will push corbyn2.0). We're either getting reheated (oven ready) blairism or LRB at this point. Maaaayyybe Starmer is the bland void you think he is, but I reckon he'll tack right because nobody likes being shat on 24/7 by the media and their colleagues. If that's the choice, I go LRB every day. No surrender. Four day week, Three day bender!
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Jan 7, 2020 16:40
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Communist Thoughts posted:I'd like a new direction thanks, stay left but try a different tack to win this time. i assume like a lot of posters itt i've been through a dark period of reflection and would like to see that... reflected by the labour left, not just "it woz brexit and sabotage, same again". we got loving savaged, we know blairism doesnt work but now we know corbynism doesnt either. time for something new.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:42
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Communist Thoughts posted:how much does the leader actually matter if the membership maintains control? We won't. It took some time for us to get control, with all the party leader's patronage power on our side. We will lose it in short order if we lose the leadership.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:48
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Pilchenstein posted:"We need to abandon all of our principles and find new ones every time an election goes wrong" is just horseshit tbqh. its not the principles at all though, its the strategy and pitch. my principles are the same but this approach to crowbarring them into the country didn't work and theres not really any reason to suspect it might if we do it again. i was gonna put an addendum to make that clearer but my previous post was already way too long, i'm not defining corbynism as left wing thought or whatever. left wing polities are pretty evidently the only political game in town if you aren't some flavour of fascist. corbynism specifically i think is basically an approach that seeks to use enthusiasm and social media to overcome traditional barriers to electability, plug holes in messaging and (apparently mistakenly) conflates mass membership with grass-roots support. also an emphasis on a kindly, gentle approach to politics, which i think was an issue but not the only issue my interpretation of these responses though is that basically its the best option out of a bad bunch to support RLB, which i think is convincing if uninspiring... 
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Jan 7, 2020 16:55
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Communist Thoughts posted:i wish we could just do the full female leadership contest, even just as a small gesture since it seems like none of the leadership candidates are as inspiring as corbyn and we're in a position that almost guarantees defeat at the next GE anyway I could see RLB vs Rayner vs Phillips as the field, and I wonder if Starmer is a good enough party-line boy to pull out if he's the fourth. But I guess if it's him AND Lewis thye'll probably both stay in in the hope that the other one drops out first.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:58
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Has anyone actually made an allegation against Clive Lewis? Because I'm getting a lot of "someone told me they'd heard he was a groper", but given all the made up bullshit that is thrown around these days I want to know if their is anything more concrete? He seems to be the only one making electoral reform a major pillar of his campaign and it's going to be a shame if that issue gets ignored because he's a creep.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:00
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Corbyns anti-imperialism was arguably the best bit about him and that's gone so there is your new direction
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Jan 7, 2020 17:03
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Jose posted:Corbyns anti-imperialism was arguably the best bit about him and that's gone so there is your new direction that response to the terrorist attack in 2017 was probably his proudest hour imo i think the rest of the america bashing probably just seemed kooky to everyone else, even if it made him the Correctest compared to bernie whoever wins the leadership if they vote for war or bombing im probably gone from the party e: and obviously we will be bombing or warring someone this year, gotta keep up appearances and bojo is gonna be happy as a pig in mud when we do Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 17:09
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Unless you vote in a blairite I doubt anyone's gonna be pro war. It's too useful of a stick to hit the tories with if nothing else.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:11
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imo part of the reason that response in 2017, that our military adventures were causing these attacks and making us less safe, worked so much was its kinda a rare left nationalist argument. its not in the national interest or that of our citizens to keep getting involved in these struggles abroad. its probably impossible to connect to the british public without some form of nationalism or patriotism and the left treating it as a dirty word synonymous with racism is self-defeating. the UK public are very much not internationalist in the least and i think its a pretty compelling argument that your countrys government should mind its own country. leaving the tories as the only "patriotic" party is incredibly damaging, considering how much actual damage the tories do to the country that you could be rallying people behind, since UK people do tend to be patriotic in an odd way. would a left nationalism inevitably become anti-immigration and racist? and is that then worth leaving this extremely powerful concept solely as the domain of the racist and anti-immigrant anyway? i feel like the SNP are both nationalist and pro-immigration, though not particularly left. has anyone tried some kind of... national socialism before? did it work out?
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Jan 7, 2020 17:26
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I don't know that "stop starting loving wars you idiots" is an inherently nationalist position. You can phrase it slightly more in that language I guess but fundamentally the message is that the country isn't king poo poo and can't go around doing what it wants without repercussions. It's a position that perhaps overlaps with isolationism but I don't know that it is, or should be, put that way by the left.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:29
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Jan 7, 2020 17:29
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Jesus lads, at least save something for when she's leader.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:32
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I mean I believe she's britain's worst rapist in the sense she hasn't ever done it.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:34
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Communist Thoughts posted:would a left nationalism inevitably become anti-immigration and racist? It's nationalism, so yes.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:36
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Communist Thoughts posted:its probably impossible to connect to the british public without some form of nationalism or patriotism and the left treating it as a dirty word synonymous with racism is self-defeating. the UK public are very much not internationalist in the least and i think its a pretty compelling argument that your countrys government should mind its own country. That it isn't really one could be a positive way to engage the public with a transnational demos without appeals to civet nationalism or whatever.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:37
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Communist Thoughts posted:I'd like a new direction thanks, stay left but try a different tack to win this time. i assume like a lot of posters itt i've been through a dark period of reflection and would like to see that... reflected by the labour left, not just "it woz brexit and sabotage, same again". we got loving savaged, we know blairism doesnt work but now we know corbynism doesnt either. time for something new. but brexit was a huge issue, and so was the successful character assassination. meanwhile the policies were popular, just like they were in 2017 when Labour had its biggest success in decades, it's just Labour voters didn't turn out for them this time because, see column A if you really want to reflect you can't ignore the context the election was fought in, because there are broader lessons to be learned than "we failed so we will always fail". We've already seen that "corbynism" has the potential to resonate with people, we know it's necessary to change the country's direction, and we know we don't have time to incrementally push someone more centrist and try and drag them back to the left once they win I mean yeah, we need a different tack - a more focused manifesto message, on the core leftist principles that poll so well with people and inspire youth turnout. Things like free broadband are good but they can be introduced later, and it turns out leading with it in the manifesto is a distraction. We need to fight the negative messaging that's been drip fed to people over the last 3 years (more like a fire hose recently but it's hard to counter an established narrative on the doorstep). We need to attack the tories, call them out, gentle politics doesn't work when it doesn't defuse your opponents' bullshit And we absolutely need to go hard on brexit scrutiny, especially since the Tories are hoping to quietly bury it now they're done with The Brexit Election - the whole thing has been an absolute gift to them since the referendum, just an opportunity for empty flag waving and rhetoric. Corbyn did well letting them tear each other apart on trying to implement the thing, but in the end that was all in parliament which most people don't follow, so the public lying and magic tory brexit card still worked and they managed to buy themselves another 5 years. There needs to be as much of a spotlight on what they're doing as possible, because it gives them a natural advantage and that needs to be eroded fast
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Jan 7, 2020 17:38
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or maybe 2.5x egg and chips??
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Jan 7, 2020 17:40
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Dabir posted:he has his arse hanging out of his trousers and? how about we attack the guy for being a raging loving sociopath rather than because he likes wearing a shirt without a tie
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Jan 7, 2020 17:41
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He really does have the 'serial killer that slept in the park cause the last bus had already left' look nailed there.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:55
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Julio Cruz posted:and? how about we attack the guy for being a raging loving sociopath rather than because he likes wearing a shirt without a tie You know who else liked to wear a shirt without a tie??? THAT'S RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jan 7, 2020 18:03
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lol that's great
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Jan 7, 2020 18:06
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Silly question, but if I've been a Labour member for 4 months will I be able to vote in the leadership election, or will I have to pay the £25?
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Jan 7, 2020 18:06
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Trin Tragula posted:You know who else liked to wear a shirt without a tie??? 
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Jan 7, 2020 18:07
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:Silly question, but if I've been a Labour member for 4 months will I be able to vote in the leadership election, or will I have to pay the £25? I think they're meeting this week to confirm the rules for this election but I'd be surprised if you wouldn't be able to vote after 4 months membership. I think the cutoff was a month last time, even without the one-off option.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:13
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:Silly question, but if I've been a Labour member for 4 months will I be able to vote in the leadership election, or will I have to pay the £25? Freeze date is Jan 20th, you're good.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:17
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They met yesterday and you're fine There's going to be a 2 day window for registered supporters, plus anyone who's joined by a deadline which is in a couple of weeks I think
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Jan 7, 2020 18:18
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sebzilla posted:They met yesterday and you're fine Yeah if anyone isn't a member yet, now's the time to join.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:19
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thespaceinvader posted:I think they're meeting this week to confirm the rules for this election but I'd be surprised if you wouldn't be able to vote after 4 months membership. I think the cutoff was a month last time, even without the one-off option. The cutoff in 2016 was 6 months (so I had to pay again!). This year there is no cutoff. If you're a member by the 20th of January you can vote.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:19
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I've changed my union contribution to the labourlink fund which I'm hoping gets me in. The rules seem really vague about what applies to the union vote though.
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