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Guavanaut posted:Come out ye Black and Tans, there's a parade for you my man I guess the ps1 was the first console I had where I got really into videogames rather than just playing whatever the hell my dad bought for the mega drive he had rattling around the house. Like I enjoyed sonic if I was playing it but I'd not be asking for particular games for christmas or anything.
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Jan 7, 2020 21:59
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I see SWR are going to get nationalised shortly since they cant run their arse from their elbow too.
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Jan 7, 2020 22:00
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namesake posted:Leftwing media does exist, it's just extremely small compared to mainstream media so the answer is to grow it. There's a co-operative news organisation in Bristol called the Bristol Cable which does independent investigative journalism and I imagine that model could be set up in most UK cities with people willing to dedicate time to set up a funding network. There's Breadtube and podcasts which are trying to produce content which doesn't just follow the established media lines in ways that people will absorb. The former point is all very well, but how do you actually get people WATCHING those? The entire viewership of Breadtube is probably 2 million people worldwide, and most of those are already committed to the cause unless I miss my demographic guess significantly, and podcasts are even less so. I'm fulling on board with positive community orgs, and I feel that's an area Labour can and should develop, but... isn't at the moment. But none of it changes the fact that the vast majority, to the point of nigh-100%, of news media in this country will absolutely monster any socialist who runs - hell, at this point any non-fash who runs - and that's where the vast majority of peopel get their news. It's not like the gammons who were grossly offended by the promise of free internet are gonna start watching loving Contrapoints.
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Jan 7, 2020 22:07
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Julio Cruz posted:I can do the one where you think that people on TV should all dress according to how you think they should I think it would be a more productive use of your time to find someone who actually believes this, maybe even someone who's actually said this, and yell at them instead
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Jan 7, 2020 22:16
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thespaceinvader posted:The former point is all very well, but how do you actually get people WATCHING those? The entire viewership of Breadtube is probably 2 million people worldwide, and most of those are already committed to the cause unless I miss my demographic guess significantly, and podcasts are even less so. Good point because I have never heard of breadtube until this thread this evening! Someone mentioned a week or so ago why RLB hadn't made her big intro on Jacobin instead of the Guardian. I do read Jacobin. I asked a couple of left CLP members I have seen in the past few days what they thought and they have never heard of Jacobin. I still think we should find a way of hacking a satellite and broadcasting straight over the main news Zarg style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTyeLJtOprE
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Jan 7, 2020 22:26
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feedmegin posted:I mean if you're thinking of suttee I'm not sure I disagree with them. I wanted to try and talk around it, because it’s every shithead’s favourite lead-in to “the empire was good, actually” and that’s really not a conversation I want to have, but yes, sati was one of the things, probably the most famous. There was also thagi (probably not a real thing?), and stuff like not providing for caste segregation on train carriages and allowing the remarriage of Hindu widows. The salient point is that this was all contributory to a deterioration of relations between the British and the Indians, and that these things came to characterise the entirety of Hinduism in the minds of the British. Actually, I’ll just quote Keay directly: quote:With Lord William Bentinck, an Evangelical sympathiser, as governor-general (1828-35) a start was made on India’s “reformation” with legislation to outlaw practices like widow-burning (sati, suttee) and ritualised highway killing (thagi, thuggee). Neither was particularly common, nor were they in any sense central or peculiar to Hindu orthodoxy. The effect of legislating against them, whilst it probably saved some lives, was principally to stigmatise Hinduism as indeed abominable to Christian consciences. Although Indian converts to Christianity were few and although Indians were shielded from the worst tirades of Evangelicalism, its assertive new ideology gained a degree of acceptance amongst the British in India. Their rule itself became increasingly imbued with a sense of divine mission, their earlier toleration and even support of Indian religions evaporated, their conviction of Christianity’s moral superiority grew, and their solicitude for the taboos of their subjects was eroded by carelessness and ignorance. When an ambitious army chaplain or a well-meaning subaltern favoured the sepoys under his command with a homily on “Christian values”, they might once have indulged him. Now, appraised of a rumoured conversion or smarting under caste affront, they fidgeted with apprehension.
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Jan 7, 2020 22:34
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thespaceinvader posted:The former point is all very well, but how do you actually get people WATCHING those? The entire viewership of Breadtube is probably 2 million people worldwide, and most of those are already committed to the cause unless I miss my demographic guess significantly, and podcasts are even less so. Well it's not as if I have a definite plan about how to do this but how do things get popular? If you can't break through the top level media and rain it down on the mass audience you work locally and build up, you produce material which you know will interest people who you already talk to and give it to them with the promise of regularly producing more or you go out into the communities and build organisations which they like and become a part of and when they ask 'Hey so what got you doing this in the first place?' you reply 'Well I'm a socialist so [class war] and [international solidarity], if you're interested there's this [media format] called [name] which I listen to quite a lot and you might like.' or you organise a fundraiser or protest or something and get some sort of coverage of it and then whenever you speak to anyone who was involved in that then you say 'Hey this [production] mentioned us positively!'. Lead with your politics but show the link between education through the production and concrete action because of it and just encourage people to pay attention to it and once there's enough people actively paying attention to it then communities start to form and it self propagates. That's the theory and basically we all need to keep trying and failing at it until something sticks.
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Jan 7, 2020 22:54
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Dabir posted:I think it would be a more productive use of your time to find someone who actually believes this, maybe even someone who's actually said this, and yell at them instead hmm let's see if I can find a post where you say people who don't give a poo poo about how they look are arrogant Dabir posted:The question was "what's arrogant about clothes". I submit that thinking everyone wants to see your arse on national television, or just not giving a poo poo about it, is that. turns out it wasn't that hard
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Jan 7, 2020 22:55
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Ratjaculation posted:Cameron def hosed a pig. 
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Jan 7, 2020 22:58
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I wanted to try and talk around it, because it’s every shithead’s favourite lead-in to “the empire was good, actually” and that’s really not a conversation I want to have, but yes, sati was one of the things, probably the most famous. There was also thagi (probably not a real thing?), and stuff like not providing for caste segregation on train carriages and allowing the remarriage of Hindu widows. I don't disagree with you on the effects necessarily, and I certainly don't think the British Empire was a good thing, but I also find it hard to disapprove of banning literal human sacrifice, kind of thing. Eliding that as just 'Hindu religious practice' doesn't seem like a good look.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:01
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https://twitter.com/TheProleStar/status/1214664340617478144
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Jan 7, 2020 23:02
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feedmegin posted:I don't disagree with you on the effects necessarily, and I certainly don't think the British Empire was a good thing, but I also find it hard to disapprove of banning literal human sacrifice, kind of thing. Eliding that as just 'Hindu religious practice' doesn't seem like a good look. Fair. I’ll be explicit: sati was bad, and I think the fact that it’s banned is a good thing.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:05
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Come out ye Black and Tans, Come and join us hand in hand, We're truly sorry for the trouble that we caused you, And now we truthfully do see, That to protest the RIC, We should have written letters to request policy reviews
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Jan 7, 2020 23:13
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Why exactly would the RoI want to celebrate the brits in any way?
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Jan 7, 2020 23:15
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There's being scruffy and clothes shouldn't matter and then there's this:
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Jan 7, 2020 23:15
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namesake posted:Well it's not as if I have a definite plan about how to do this but how do things get popular? If you can't break through the top level media and rain it down on the mass audience you work locally and build up, you produce material which you know will interest people who you already talk to and give it to them with the promise of regularly producing more or you go out into the communities and build organisations which they like and become a part of and when they ask 'Hey so what got you doing this in the first place?' you reply 'Well I'm a socialist so [class war] and [international solidarity], if you're interested there's this [media format] called [name] which I listen to quite a lot and you might like.' or you organise a fundraiser or protest or something and get some sort of coverage of it and then whenever you speak to anyone who was involved in that then you say 'Hey this [production] mentioned us positively!'. Lead with your politics but show the link between education through the production and concrete action because of it and just encourage people to pay attention to it and once there's enough people actively paying attention to it then communities start to form and it self propagates. So, trying to get popular feels like a hiding to nothing to me, because if you're in a position to get popular, you're probably not someone who will message for the kind of change needed, and if you are, you will swiftly change your messaging, intentionally or otherwise, or swiftly find yourself unpopular again. In short I honestly don't believe that meaningful change is possible except through catastrophe. And I don't want the kind of catastrophe that could lead to meaningful change, because millions or even billions of people will die as a result of it. But I think that's kind of inevitable, so I just hope I don't have to bear witness to it. It's not a sentiment I express often, because it's unhelpful, but this kind of discussion really sparks it - the idea that people on the left can message their way into the left being popular again just feels like a pipe dream, because the only means for those messages tyo reach enough ears to matter - the media and the education system - are entirely, unassailably, controlled by the bad guys.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:17
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Julio Cruz posted:hmm let's see if I can find a post where you say people who don't give a poo poo about how they look are arrogant yeah congrats, you can prove the thing I said, I said. what you can't prove, because you made it up, is the spiralling web of insane bigotry that you've just assumed I must believe in
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Jan 7, 2020 23:19
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OwlFancier posted:Why exactly would the RoI want to celebrate the brits in any way? "As long as those eejits keep tripping over their own dicks, it's all but impossible for us to look bad."
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Jan 7, 2020 23:19
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:There's being scruffy and clothes shouldn't matter and then there's this: how does belt work?
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Jan 7, 2020 23:19
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This probably has more to do with them being the pension firm that's going to buy up all the state pensions, in fairness. Still, wish we could be more like the French.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:20
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:There's being scruffy and clothes shouldn't matter and then there's this:
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Jan 7, 2020 23:23
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I mean if you want to moon the bbc I'm not gonna stop you but it's a bit rude after they guaranteed you a job 
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Jan 7, 2020 23:28
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OwlFancier posted:Why exactly would the RoI want to celebrate the brits in any way? There's a decade of commemorations that line up with partition and the civil war and trying to figure out how to actually thread that needle of something that remains hyper contentious has meant the government has had to form a special advisory body to recommend what to do. They recommended some kind of historic conference on the legacy of the RIC, who after all where force made up of Irishmen based in Ireland - the government just went okay how about this instead and unsurprisingly it went down like a lead balloon. Most historians are saying that there needs to be some kind of engagement on the issue considering the RIC do represent a part of the Irish story that is often unexplored due to its murky grey tones but the government's proposal was a.bit of a mess. Like back during the 1916 commemorations they unveiled a memorial wall for everyone that died in the rising that included all the DMP and RIC officers and that was minorly controversy but ultimately must people accepted it as a solid shout to attempt to navigate the murky realities of the independence period. kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 23:29
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thespaceinvader posted:Things get popular - properly popular, not youtube popular, even the most popular youtubers mostly still only get audiences in the 1-10million range globally - because those in power, directly or indirectly, select them for popularity. This isn't message control, this is creating a shared cultural connection and joint language to otherwise unconnected members of the working class providing a shared understanding and solidarity between them allowing them to build power on the principles of liberation and start to use it. That's what this is all about. All of my examples are linking actions to the transfer of information because yes we will always lose out to television to the passive audience but no amount of propaganda will convince you your stomach is full when it is empty and a community kitchen welcome to everyone will nourish a persons body and their soul. Sometime is popular because it resonates; it provides something, material or immaterial that you need, something popular becomes powerful because it's able to be shaped into something organised into a form where the believers understands each other, understands its own goals and is motivated to achieve them. Popular revolutions have happened before in worse conditions than this so don't for a second think they're impossible now.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:30
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:There's being scruffy and clothes shouldn't matter and then there's this: Half-suspect it's intentional to piss off the civil servants in there. OwlFancier posted:Why exactly would the RoI want to celebrate the brits in any way? Because Fine Gael are pig-ignorant west brits, happy to bring the glory days of landlordism back to their country. Some of them have literally written articles trying to put forward the notion that the 1916 rising was a mistake. But as stated previously, it's mainly because they were too stupid to see how badly this would go down. School Nickname fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 23:35
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namesake posted:no amount of propaganda will convince you your stomach is full when it is empty and a community kitchen welcome to everyone will nourish a persons body and their soul. It doesn't have to if it convinces you that it's the brown people's fault your stomach is empty and you can't find out about the community kitchen because it's not printed in the loving paper or mentioned on the local news. Or the community kitchen gets shut down for some arbitrary reason by the powes that be, or also cannot afford to buy food or rent a space in which to operate or... etc. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 23:44
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thespaceinvader posted:It doesn't have to if it convinces you that it's the brown people's fault your stomach is empty and you can't find out about the community kitchen because it's not printed in the loving paper or mentioned on the local news. Or the community kitchen gets shut down for some arbitrary reason by the powes that be, or also cannot afford to buy food or rent a space in which to operate or... etc. Yes this is the struggle, the war. You're welcome to dig in anywhere you can.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:54
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namesake posted:Yes this is the struggle, the war. You're welcome to dig in anywhere you can. I'm working on it, believe me. I thought I'd succeeded in a finding a long-term place which actually helped but I lost that job less than two weeks ago because, at least partly, rent in this shithole is far too high. So forgive me if I'm a little pessimistic right now.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:59
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Tsietisin posted:Gods - Into the wonderful Platoon loading screen music was also pretty great https://youtu.be/RX25aETu12A
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Jan 8, 2020 00:00
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man I really should check people's rapsheets before I expend effort taking them seriously
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Jan 8, 2020 00:05
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It's very important you all stop and look at this video of this puppy: https://i.imgur.com/bZTpxdL.mp4 Now you might not think that it's relevant to UK politics, but he's called Benjy after Benjamin, the donkey from Animal Farm. All of his brothers are also named after characters from Animal Farm, and I've never been prouder of my achievements in haranguing my niece (whose puppy this is) about politics over the years than when she told me that.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:11
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Julio Cruz posted:man I really should check people's rapsheets before I expend effort taking them seriously if that was an attempt at treating someone seriously I'd hate to see what you're like when you start getting abusive and disingenuous
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Jan 8, 2020 00:17
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dat yawn tho
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Jan 8, 2020 00:20
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So I enjoyed some of the conversations on praxis so much that I wrote a simple web scraper over the weekend to collect them in a simplified format for storage / searching in something like Evernote or a document database. If people would be interested I can package this stuff up as a web app for y'all. E: Might also be of interest to those of you who've got a statistical bent and want to analyse stuff like who the most prolific poster in this thread is. Purple Prince fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 00:25
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kustomkarkommando posted:
The problem wasn't just that the government went with a major commemoration ceremony against the advice of experts. It's also that when people expressed displeasure with this The Government and Leo in particular looked down their noses at the responses. This wasnt even a "we are sorry if you were upset" type apology. It was full on "how dare you refuse to join in on the celebrations!"
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Jan 8, 2020 00:33
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excellent puppinothespaceinvader posted:It doesn't have to if it convinces you that it's the brown people's fault your stomach is empty and you can't find out about the community kitchen because it's not printed in the loving paper or mentioned on the local news. Or the community kitchen gets shut down for some arbitrary reason by the powes that be, or also cannot afford to buy food or rent a space in which to operate or... etc. the point is you don't just make yourself visible as a marketing pitch so hopefully people will put a tick next to your logo next time, you make people feel connected to you and what you're about. Like you're both (to some degree) on the same team. That way the propaganda doesn't work as well, because now it's directed at something they identify with arguably that's even more important now, because the idea of natural Labour voters has been eroded, especially over the last few decades. People don't culturally identify with the party as strongly, and even those that do are more likely to not vote or even vote Tory rather than being "I vote Labour no matter what". You can't take that for granted, so you need to make sure you maintain that relevance and solidarity, and make sure it reaches a broader base of people who've grown up considering themselves outside of politics
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Jan 8, 2020 00:34
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:There's being scruffy and clothes shouldn't matter and then there's this: why would you put any more effort than that into working for boris
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Jan 8, 2020 00:36
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I assume Dom Cummies has managed to sell himself as utterly vindicated on all fronts and now he LARPs around like the most slovenly Dr House, all eccentricities/twattery forgiven because his genius is too superlative to discard. ps: Very, very good pupper
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Jan 8, 2020 00:43
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https://twitter.com/Lokinash06/status/1214680009987821568?s=20 https://twitter.com/willuminare/status/1214686115443224578?s=20
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Jan 8, 2020 00:46
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fatelvis posted:Platoon loading screen music was also pretty great Obligatory Robocop mention. Apparently Ocean did great music, who knew? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFgXGw_kXpc
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Jan 8, 2020 00:57
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