|
Eiba posted:I'm not totally on board with Dogstorm and Cat Viper... Nekomamushi is just so fun to say. I don't like the idea of translating names in general, because that's clunky and stupid. Doubly so when it's inconsistent. On the other hand, Dogstorm is still pretty fantastic and fun as heck to say.
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 10:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 21:59 |
|
|
I like that the last road ponegliff Roger found was the very first one Luffy found. And that both of them stole a rubbing of Big Mom's ponegliff. Some good parallels there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 10:10
|
|
|
Cat Viper is an incredibly radical name and none shall convince me otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 10:13
|
|
|
I think the idea is meant to be that Orochi is already playing Wormtongue to the shogun while Oden is off adventuring, and given Wano is apparently the source of Seastone, he's likely a puppet in turn for CP0 who are having him step up Seastone production and refinement to supply the Marines, who seem to have plenty of the stuff by present day even though Kaido's taken over by then.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 10:33
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:I think the idea is meant to be that Orochi is already playing Wormtongue to the shogun while Oden is off adventuring, and given Wano is apparently the source of Seastone, he's likely a puppet in turn for CP0 who are having him step up Seastone production and refinement to supply the Marines, who seem to have plenty of the stuff by present day even though Kaido's taken over by then. Orochi is probably already Shogun by this point since the real Shogun has been deal for a while.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 10:55
|
|
|
Viridiant posted:Cat Viper is an incredibly radical name and none shall convince me otherwise. In almost all cases I don't agree with translating names. But sometimes there's arguments to be made for it. DUKE DOGSTORM and CAT VIPER are hella rad names for the big legendary figures that they are. To people who speak 0 Japanese (who should be the target audience for translations), Inuarashi and Nekomamushi are just Japanese names. But they are not normal names. You're not gonna meet a guy at work named Satou Inuarashi, ever. They're wild and funny names to make kids grin and that is lost if they go untranslated. This is also the case for Genghis Baan. So in this instance I think it was the right call. If a name is just a name then English readers don't need to know the meaning. If the author is clearly doing something with the name, then it's up to the translator to decide if communicating that is worth changing a name or not. In the complete opposite direction, there was a group of people who tried to defend MangaStream translating Katakuri as Dogtooth because I guess that's what came up when those amateurs googled it. Katakuri's name has no bearing on his character so it doesn't need to be translated. It's all about context. EDIT: When Katakuri's scarf came off they literally went "hey he's got weird teeth, turns out using Dogtooth was the right call! checkmate losers" as if that argument made any sense whatsoever. It was a weird and wacky time to be a fan. Cipher Pol 9 fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jan 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 19:52
|
|
|
On the other hand, Buruma and Kuririn
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 20:42
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:I don't like the idea of translating names in general I mean it would be kind of like calling someone named "Michael" "Mr. Who is like God?"
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 21:31
|
|
|
Spanish Matlock posted:I mean it would be kind of like calling someone named "Michael" "Mr. Who is like God?" Nobody looks at a saintly person and says "wow that person is so Michael." On the other hand, if I write a story about Dog, The Guy Who Loves Dogs, then his name should absolutely be Perro in the Spanish translation and Inu in the Japanese. Calling him Dog and attaching a translator note that Dog means Perro/Inu in English is lazy and ineffective translating.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
my favorite charolette family member, dogsdog
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 21:47
|
|
|
lickslick
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 22:03
|
|
|
bearsy is a better name than kumasy
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 22:08
|
|
|
Cipher Pol 9 posted:This. But it's a judgement thing. I don't think the official translation is wrong or dumb to use Dogstorm and Cat Viper, I'm just not sure I like it personally. Cat Viper in particular doesn't flow like Nekomamushi. It doesn't seem like a silly name, it seems like title or super hero name or something. Dogstorm works better at feeling like a name, while being as goofy as the original. CodfishCartographer posted:On the other hand, Buruma and Kuririn
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
Cipher Pol 9 posted:On the other hand, if I write a story about I mean I'm not a purist either way. For me it usually comes down to what's pronounceable in the other language. If you told a Spaniard or a Japansman that a dude's name is "dog" and that means Perro or Inu, they'd probably be able to get down on it. On the other other hand, one of my personal faves is translating 韋小寶 as "Trinket Wei" in the better English translation of Deer and the Cauldron, because "xiao" isn't a super obvious pronunciation if you don't know pinyin. Edit: I mean I guess Japanese at least has a phonetic alphabet so you can make words or names that don't necessarily have a meaning, whereas in Chinese you have to use characters that have a meaning regardless so technically you could just translate any name. Like the Chairman of the CCP "Xi Close to Peace" or the upcoming Taiwanese elections between Korean Fish and English Vegetables. Spanish Matlock fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jan 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 22:44
|
|
|
oddium posted:bearsy is a better name than kumasy And that one works because Bearsy is barely even a proper name, it's just a cutesy nickname that a child would give their stuffed toy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
Eiba posted:I can see the reason for Dogstorm and Cat Viper, and there have been way less justified examples, but I'm still not on board. If you take this reasoning too far you're going to have to start translating all the food names people have in Wano. Like, same thing there, right? Japanese readers think it's fun and goofy, while English readers just think they're generic Japanese names. Sometimes you just gotta let the pun go, rather than trying to chase the original. I mean like they said context is key. Dogstorm is a dog named dog, Oden is not literally a hot pot. Oden has a Japanese name and is from fantasy Japan among a lot other characters with Japanese names, Dogstorm and Catviper’s names are totally different from the other Mink. I think Cat Viper is a weird name too but they’re pretty different situations from the Wano characters. Anyway VIZ has a couple of translations where I prefer what Funimation went with (which I think most fan translations also use) but the line to line dialogue is generally a whole lot better than the scanlations that there’s so real contest. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jan 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 00:13
|
|
|
I just wish it was either Dogstorm/Catviper or Dog Storm/Cat Viper
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 00:28
|
|
|
Bartholomew Kuma should be translated as Bisoromi Bear, thank you for coming to my sermon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 05:50
|
|
|
Big Mam
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 06:44
|
|
|
Big Mama
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 06:47
|
|
|
Big Mamushi
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 08:35
|
|
|
OOOOOH YEAH IT'S THE BIG MAM
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 09:22
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Bartholomew Kuma should be translated as Bisoromi Bear, thank you for coming to my Bartholomew Bear would have been fine, although I'm glad they didn't. God knows where they got Bisoromi from back in the day, although I guess you could say that about any of the butchered Frankenstein names they came up with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 09:59
|
|
|
I kinda like the janky names, gives the characters a more all-over-the-place feel very befitting how they're, well, all over the place. Actually almost a running gag that every duo or small group of characters without an obvious theme will have an obviously contrasting name, like Johnny and Yosaku.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 10:30
|
|
|
Spanish Matlock posted:I mean I'm not a purist either way. For me it usually comes down to what's pronounceable in the other language. If you told a Spaniard or a Japansman that a dude's name is "dog" and that means Perro or Inu, they'd probably be able to get down on it. On the other other hand, one of my personal faves is translating 韋小寶 as "Trinket Wei" in the better English translation of Deer and the Cauldron, because "xiao" isn't a super obvious pronunciation if you don't know pinyin. For my Dog example, the foreign language readers may be able to be told that the character's name means Dog and that would be fine with them, sure, but for the purpose of the story they shouldn't have to. That detail is a big part of the character's identity and it should be as clear to the foreign language reader as it was to the native language readers. Eiba posted:I can see the reason for Dogstorm and Cat Viper, and there have been way less justified examples, but I'm still not on board. If you take this reasoning too far you're going to have to start translating all the food names people have in Wano. Like, same thing there, right? Japanese readers think it's fun and goofy, while English readers just think they're generic Japanese names. Sometimes you just gotta let the pun go, rather than trying to chase the original. Out of curiosity, how long have you been following the official release? Because while I can see Nekomamushi "flowing" for someone used to Japanese names and scans, it would be a mess of syllables for anyone not familiar with the language. I've heard someone fail to say Momonosuke properly on countless occasions and Nekomamushi is not much better. Cat Viper (to me) flows and sounds awesome. Plus it has the bonus of translating later gags so much clearly. There's a character named Nekomamushi and so Luffy later calls Pekoms "Pekomamushi" and "Kamemamushi" when he uses his power. To an English readers it's... A gag that exists, I guess. But in the offical translation, they use Lion Viper and Turtle Viper. Luffy is an idiot, so after meeting Cat Viper he decides this other cat mink must also be some kind of Viper! Clear and funny in both languages because the joke has been reworked rather than just left as is and stuck with a Translator's Note, that's the ideal. Cipher Pol 9 fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Jan 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 12:52
|
|
|
This is a break week right? Japanese holidays and all that. Or maybe that's next week?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 15:29
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/shonenjump/status/1214693227162460166 I hope this panel just becomes a meme from now on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 15:34
|
|
|
If there was ever a panel that was begging to be turned into a reaction face, it's that. The joke is funnier when you know Shonen Jump has a pirate mascot besides Luffy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2020 20:00
|
|
|
What does "The Crane Returns the Favor" refer to? Also, while we're on the topic of translation decisions, I have a few questions about Yu Yu Hakusho since I've been bored on holiday and watching through it on subs: Why do they pronounce Urameshi as 'Oo-ra-mesh-ee" in the original but 'Yoo-ra-mesh-ee' or 'Yer-a-mesh-ee' in the dub? Is it just transliteration from Japanese to English pronunciation conventions? Also, why do they keep referring to him by family name in the original but first name more often in the dub (unless I'm wrong here)? Is it just cultural conventions of strangers vs friends referring to family name vs first name? Now that I think of it, if it weren't for the Strawhat epithet, would you have people running around calling Luffy by his surname Monkey instead? That... would be weird. E: Blaze Dragon posted:https://twitter.com/shonenjump/status/1214693227162460166 Lol at this edit: https://twitter.com/OboroKotaro/status/1214696550754136064?s=20 Also, apparently you can order a box set of the One Piece manga volumes 1-84 that comes in practically a treasure chest-sized box with signed artwork of Luffy on Taobao here in China for ¥799 (about $115 USD), but I don't have the space for it in my tiny apartment... 
Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jan 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
Teriyaki Koinku posted:What does "The Crane Returns the Favor" refer to? Pronunciation is very consistent in Japanese, as opposed to English. If you know how a word is spelled, you generally know how it’s pronounced. Urameshi, spelled in Japanese, is four letters long: U-Ra-Me-Shi. U is pronounced “oo”, Ra is pronounced “rah” (like the Egyption god Ra), Me is pronounced “may”, and Shi is pronounced like the english word “she”. Additionally, Japanese gives each syllable roughly the same length of pronunciation, tending not to stress or lengthen any one syllable too much compared to the others. Unsurprisingly, most English speaking people aren’t all that familiar with Japanese pronunciation, and instead read and pronounce the word as though it were English. Because English has widely varied ways to pronounce words and letter combinations, different people interpret these foreign words in different ways, and thus pronounce them differently. Why did this happen in a professional production? Likely because the director didn’t enforce correct pronunciation. Why didn’t they do that? Could be because they also don’t know (or care) how to pronounce it properly! Also yes, in Japan it's much more common to refer to someone by their family name unless you're fairly close with them, but it comes off as overly stiff or even sometimes rude in English.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 00:56
|
|
|
Because Chris Sabat's Kuwabara sounds really funny when he says "YOURAMESHI!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
You're a meshi
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 01:04
|
|
|
^^^ That's really neat, thanks!  I'm much more used to (Mandarin) Chinese conventions, but they do something similar with formal/casual variants to the same words, how you refer to someone based on context (strangers/friends, business/workplace titles/on the street/with friends, customer/guest to staff, age difference and status, etc) etc which is all really fascinating. In case anyone is curious, One Piece is called 海贼王 or Pirate King in China. I'd really like to read through the Chinese text here to see if there are any notable differences between it and the English/Japanese versions.  E: Speaking of which, the guy who does Buggy the Clown (Shigeru Chiba) does Kuwabara in YYH while Luffy (Mayumi Tanaka) does Koenma in YYH and Killin in Dragonball. Meanwhile, Bellamy (Wataru Takagi) does Okuyasu in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. It's pretty mind-blowing once you suddenly realize it's the same voice! 
Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 01:10
|
|
|
Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Bartholomew Bear would have been fine, although I'm glad they didn't. God knows where they got Bisoromi from back in the day, although I guess you could say that about any of the butchered Frankenstein names they came up with. You have to do some sort of phonetic game of telephone but probably something like: Bar-Tho-lo-Mew Ba-so-ro-mi-u Bisoromi
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 06:09
|
|
|
Teriyaki Koinku posted:Now that I think of it, if it weren't for the Strawhat epithet, would you have people running around calling Luffy by his surname Monkey instead? That... would be weird. So One Piece is weird in that while most characters use the Japanese naming order(Last-First) like Monkey D. Luffy, Roronora Zoro, Zinsmoke Sanji ect. some seem to use the western naming order(because they're named after a real person usually) like Edward Newgate, Trafalgar D. Water Law, Eustass Kidd, ect. but are actually still the Japanese order(As weird as it sounds it seems like Whitebeard's first name is in fact Newgate, not Edward). Either way a lot of characters just use the first names of characters so people would probably still call Luffy by his first name. RatHat fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jan 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 06:45
|
|
|
Archenteron posted:You have to do some sort of phonetic game of telephone but probably something like: The JP original read バーソロミュ (Baasoromyu). I can understand missing the small yu at the end on a bad scan, but even if you don't twig that it's supposed to be Bartholomew, turning the long a of the first syllable into i comes out of nowhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 10:18
|
|
|
Cipher Pol 9 posted:Out of curiosity, how long have you been following the official release? Because while I can see Nekomamushi "flowing" for someone used to Japanese names and scans, it would be a mess of syllables for anyone not familiar with the language. I've heard someone fail to say Momonosuke properly on countless occasions and Nekomamushi is not much better. Cat Viper (to me) flows and sounds awesome. I just think, on top of all that, Cat Viper sounds weird and bad. quote:Plus it has the bonus of translating later gags so much clearly. There's a character named Nekomamushi and so Luffy later calls Pekoms "Pekomamushi" and "Kamemamushi" when he uses his power. To an English readers it's... A gag that exists, I guess. But in the offical translation, they use Lion Viper and Turtle Viper. Luffy is an idiot, so after meeting Cat Viper he decides this other cat mink must also be some kind of Viper! Clear and funny in both languages because the joke has been reworked rather than just left as is and stuck with a Translator's Note, that's the ideal. You can come up with a different pun and force it into the space of the old pun, but it just never works the way the original does. Oda came up with a scenario with a pun in mind. You can't just swap that out and have the same effect. That viper thing is a perfect example, it's just such a bad joke. It's not funny to me it's just weird. They're doing their best, and that's probably the effort that should be put into an official release, but personally I'm way more comfortable with a translators note letting me go, "heh, this must be what was supposed to be funny" rather than having the feeling of "oh god, I wonder what was here originally that lead to this monstrosity" that a translated pun leaves me with. Again, this my personal preference and why I feel (some) scanlations cater to my sensibilities a bit better than the official release. I get why the official release does what it does, and it's not wrong to do so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 10:53
|
|
|
I mean there's definitely some puns you can translate or like find a different pun or gag to put in instead that gives the same vibe. That's the mark of a good translator. Same with idioms or sayings really. Like obviously there's going to be some puns you can't do anything with, Zoro's attack names for example, but just letting an opportunity to pun pass you by is a real shame that I can't abide.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 11:10
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Like obviously there's going to be some puns you can't do anything with, Zoro's attack names for example,
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 11:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 21:59 |
|
|
Yeah sometimes you just can’t localize puns and they’re lost in the translation. For example the Mink King Hitsugisukan’s name seems to be Sheep+Ghengis Khan(which the translation used) but it’s also a reference to a Japanese mutton dish called jingisukan(which is also named after Ghengis Khan). Zoro’s attacks are like that too. It’s probably best to just use the direct translations and ignore the puns in these cases but it’s always great when you can make the pun work in both languages. RatHat fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jan 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 12:12
|
|