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The US foreign policy system (State Department, CIA, friendly allies, sympathetic billionaires, etc) sometimes shuffles money to people who say the things they want to hear, often through NGOs and think tanks. *Shrug* I know Bellingcat is a goon. Being a goon is not mutually exclusive with any of us getting paid (directly or via a third party) by the US for our work.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:17
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pantslesswithwolves posted:They’re funded in part by the National Endowment for Democracy, which itself gets a grant from Congress each year for democracy promotion. Bellingcat is not directly funded by the USG.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:22
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Crakkerjakk posted:The US foreign policy system (State Department, CIA, friendly allies, sympathetic billionaires, etc) sometimes shuffles money to people who say the things they want to hear, often through NGOs and think tanks. What exactly what exactly is this supposed supposed to mean are you claiming that he might be a paid puppet account
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Jan 10, 2020 23:22
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Is there any possibility that taking out the airliner was a sort of 'deniable' reprisal? Perhaps the US was evacuating sensitive personnel from Iran on that flight and Iran shot it down to send a more covert message, then trust that the Vincennes incident gives them coverage on the world stage?
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Jan 10, 2020 23:24
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No, it isn't
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Jan 10, 2020 23:28
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Schadenboner posted:If Iran is really insistent on going down the It’s pretty clear they are scrambling a bit.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:29
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path at this point they need to be asserting it was an American CIA team with a Stinger/Redeye and screaming false flag, not Baghdad Bobbing it up pretending a missile did not hit the plane since there's, you know, a video of a missile hitting the goddamn plane?
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CommieGIR posted:What exactly what exactly is this supposed supposed to mean are you claiming that he might be a paid puppet account No, I assume he started out a goon, blew up posting things that agreed with what the US foreign policy establishment wanted out there, and then started getting paid (via third party). It's almost never as sinister as "we will give you one milllllliiioooonnnn dollars to say a thing and create a whole new identity for you to do so," whether it's the US foreign policy establishment or just like national news media. Instead, it's vastly more common to say "hey, here's a guy already toeing the party line on what we want put in the world, let's hire him on and give him the tools to reach a larger audience." Same reason you don't see flaming lefties in big corporate news rooms but mysteriously ABC and CNN head honchos think Jake Tapper should be talking to a national audience.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:29
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Crakkerjakk posted:No, I assume he started out a goon, blew up posting things that agreed with what the US foreign policy establishment wanted out there, and then started getting paid (via third party). It's worth pointing out that you are specifically making claims that the Russian Gru specifically tried to make about him in order to try to cover up for his investigation about them shooting down the Boeing I don't buy that in the least he's been pretty critical of US policy in many cases and he's been doing the open source intelligence stuff a lot longer than his bellingcat stuff originally did it as his brown Moses blog
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Jan 10, 2020 23:38
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The neat thing about Bellingcat is they very neatly lay out their evidence/reasoning so you can simply look at it yourself and see if you agree or disagree with their conclusion. It's not like they're going: "our anonymous source tells us Iran shot down the airliner and also they ate some babies." The whole point is that anyone acting in good faith could take the same information from public sources and would come to more or less the same conclusion.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:49
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its the military the dumbest answer is usually the correct one
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Jan 10, 2020 23:49
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What "party line" stuff are you even referring to? Apart from the airliner.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:49
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Iran should say they refuse to apologize and then give the crew a medal
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Jan 10, 2020 23:50
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I don't really see the need for conspiracy theories involving the Iran shootdown given that nobody is using it as a reason to say anything besides that war loving sucks and innocent people die when militaries make mistakes
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Jan 10, 2020 23:52
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Iran should say they refuse to apologize and then give the crew a medal I mean, that would certainly address some of the "Trump alienated goddamn everyone by dropping that Hellfire" situation but I'm not entirely sure this course of action would align with Iran's strategic interests? 
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Jan 10, 2020 23:54
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my kinda ape posted:The neat thing about Bellingcat is they very neatly lay out their evidence/reasoning so you can simply look at it yourself and see if you agree or disagree with their conclusion. It's not like they're going: "our anonymous source tells us Iran shot down the airliner and also they ate some babies." The whole point is that anyone acting in good faith could take the same information from public sources and would come to more or less the same conclusion. I agree. Their stuff is completely reproducible and they even have articles cleanly explaining the process of many of their methods. While his conclusions may be incorrect, the evidence is out there for everything. I think anyone claiming it’s a US mouth piece is reaching to discredit it.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:57
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:its the military "I bet you cant get a target lock on the next airliner." "Pffff, you just push this button"
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Jan 11, 2020 00:01
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:its the military https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a23793250/belgium-f-16-accidentally-destroys-another-f-16/ Open source intelligence - if you show your work, as Bellingcat does - has much the same strengths and weaknesses as open source software. If there is bias, it's at minimum findable through peer review, and unlike some open source software projects, Bellingcat's work gets vast attention (and thus considerable public peer review).
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Jan 11, 2020 00:05
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:its the military A reminder: quote:NO ABU HAJAAR! THAT WAS THE ROCKET FOR PLANES!
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Jan 11, 2020 00:06
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:"I bet you cant get a target lock on the next airliner." im 99.8% sure it was either that or some officer making some group of privates track the plane "for practice" and running through the checklists and WHOOPS tell me im loving wrong
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Jan 11, 2020 00:08
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stealie72 posted:A reminder: I was thinking the same thing
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Jan 11, 2020 00:08
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:im 99.8% sure it was either that or some officer making some group of privates track the plane "for practice" and running through the checklists and WHOOPS That’s how the USN shot a... Greek (?) frigate right ?
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Jan 11, 2020 00:10
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hobbesmaster posted:That’s how the USN shot a... Greek (?) frigate right ? Turkish.
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Jan 11, 2020 00:12
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didnt even fuckin know that
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Jan 11, 2020 00:17
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All militaries are chock full of the dumbest motherfuckers on earth, so the rule of thumb whenever any of them are involved is to blame incompetence before malice. Granted, there are exceptions, generally when race is involved.
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Jan 11, 2020 00:19
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The D&D and C-spam hate for Brown Moses is really incredible. Whenever the topic comes up there are people crawling out of the woodwork that loving despise the guy. I think the work they do is really interesting, it’s true you can’t take money off someone without some sort of debt or understanding but Bellingcat doesn’t seem to be state propaganda yet. Edit- though of course these are the same folks that petition to get this forum shut down on the regular because they have a fixed idea it’s full of war mongers and chuds despite never checking for themselves. Abongination fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 11, 2020 |
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Jan 11, 2020 00:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wwC9RTdB1I
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Jan 11, 2020 00:42
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Abongination posted:The D&D and C-spam hate for Brown Moses is really incredible. They're just angry that an unemployed goon on the couch totally revolutionized open source intelligence.
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Jan 11, 2020 00:44
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Smiling Jack posted:They're just angry that an unemployed goon on the couch totally revolutionized open source intelligence. PSL meetings for sure.
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Jan 11, 2020 00:45
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Abongination posted:The D&D and C-spam hate
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Jan 11, 2020 00:47
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Crakkerjakk posted:The US foreign policy system (State Department, CIA, friendly allies, sympathetic billionaires, etc) sometimes shuffles money to people who say the things they want to hear, often through NGOs and think tanks. How does the Dutch National Postcode Lottery fit in all of this?
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Jan 11, 2020 00:49
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https://twitter.com/MikeBeauvais/status/1215073526736195585
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Jan 11, 2020 00:53
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whaaaaat a rush https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNCChG2RbDY
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Jan 11, 2020 00:53
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There has been 2, 6.0+ earthquakes; 5, 5.0+ earthquakes and, 4, 4.0+ earthquakes from 6 January until today. Edit: My family is still ok.
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Jan 11, 2020 01:11
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Oh my god
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Jan 11, 2020 01:12
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im glad your family is ok
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Jan 11, 2020 01:12
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ElMaligno posted:There has been 2, 6.0+ earthquakes; 5, 5.0+ earthquakes and, 4, 4.0+ earthquakes from 6 January until today. Man I really hope this isn't building up to anything. Hope your family (and everyone else on the island) stays safe.
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Jan 11, 2020 01:38
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mlmp08 posted:A destroyer/cruiser with a fully manned CIC and commanded by an O-5/6 illegally entering Iranian waters and shooting a codes-broadcasting airliner is objectively loving dumber than some 2-4 man SHORAD crew screwing up. And their bodycount was higher to boot. Illegally entering Iranian waters (to chase a gunboat that allegedly fired on a US helicopter crew) makes them more likely to think they're going to be attacked not less (wash with Iran launching missiles), and the Ukrainian flight was also squawking mode 3 so the codes broadcasting is a wash on relative stupidity (and not really notable if we're talking about airline shootdown incidents because AFAIK all such historic incidents involved a code broadcasting plane. So with what's left you have one dipshit destroyer shooting an inbound airliner that's originating out of hostile airspace and flying at them, who at least tried to waive it off on both military and civilian emergency channels. Competing with a dipshit Iranian crew that shot their own airliner taking off from their own airport and flying away from them. The loving thing hadn't even appreciably deviated from it's take-off radial yet and what little deviation it had was because it was starting a slow turn away from where the missile was launched. They had deviated from the runway radial of exactly 289 ~30 seconds before the transponder goes dark, it barely made it off the runway of their own airport before they pasted it.
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Jan 11, 2020 01:41
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Lou Takki posted:LOL obviously the russians had a backdoor into their fire control system and Putin decided to spice things up with a little bit of murder. MA-Horus posted:I'm trying not to think all tinfoil hatty like that...but man would it ever be just like trump; https://youtu.be/-f2NVHInoUc?t=13
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Jan 11, 2020 01:56
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Jarmak posted:Illegally entering Iranian waters (to chase a gunboat that allegedly fired on a US helicopter crew) makes them more likely to think they're going to be attacked not less (wash with Iran launching missiles), and the Ukrainian flight was also squawking mode 3 so the codes broadcasting is a wash on relative stupidity (and not really notable if we're talking about airline shootdown incidents because AFAIK all such historic incidents involved a code broadcasting plane. Dude, you’re pro-USA blind on this one. The cruiser illegally entering Iranian TTW and then shooting down an airliner doesn’t get to excuse its massive CIC fuckup. And describing the airliner as “flying at” the Vincennes is such utter bullshit charged language. An airliner inside a civil corridor, squawking civil codes, climbing on an approved flight path, which happens to pass over a cruiser which is busy violating Iranian waters at the O-6’s orders, is not “flying at” the cruiser. A SHORAD crew loving up and shooting down the Ukrainian airliner is Very loving Bad and should not have occurred and should be fully accounted for. But on decision cycle, timeline, senior leadership involvement (as far as we know), range, expected threat, and loss of innocent human life, the Vincennes incident is objectively far loving stupider.
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Jan 11, 2020 01:56
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mlmp08 posted:Dude, you’re pro-USA blind on this one. The cruiser illegally entering Iranian TTW and then shooting down an airliner doesn’t get to excuse its massive CIC fuckup. And describing the airliner as “flying at” the Vincennes is such utter bullshit charged language. An airliner inside a civil corridor, squawking civil codes, climbing on an approved flight path, which happens to pass over a cruiser which is busy violating Iranian waters at the O-6’s orders, is not “flying at” the cruiser. It was flying in the direction of the destroyer, there's nothing loaded about that, shooting an airliner flying away from you is far far dumber than an airliner flying toward you. There's no level of rank or decision cycle that trumps shooting an airliner in the process of taking off from your own goddamn airport. The origination point of the missile is closer to the airport than where the plane was shot. They watched it takeoff, it was the sixth flight that night (second within 15 minutes) on that exact azimuth.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:12
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