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You are focusing on the current hot topic bad action and then as a result minimizing an even more egregious past fuckup. Air defense is loving hard to do well. Everyone who does air defense for a living realizes you need small tactical units but they inherently carry more risk than a giant centralized machine like an O-6 led CG. Unless the O-6 is bad at his job and has an incompetent CIC crew. The Vincennes defense you posted is basically this: “Yeah, I am not sorry that I shot this puppy. You see, I was breaking into this home, so I was scared, so I shot the puppy because I thought the puppy was the homeowner.”
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Jan 11, 2020 02:19
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mlmp08 posted:You are focusing on the current hot topic bad action and then as a result minimizing an even more egregious past fuckup. You're conveniently leaving out a lot of details that would be very descriptive of the chaos at the time, e.g. the Vincennes picking up Code 2 freqs (which were picked up by the Italians as well as other American ships in the area) and the aircraft not responding to multiple warning on different channels.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:28
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An ascending airliner does not look like an attacking F-14 on radar, period.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:30
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Stultus Maximus posted:An ascending airliner does not look like an attacking F-14 on radar, period. Except the Vincennes thought the airliner was descending because the targeting system had reassigned it's tracking number to a U.S. Navy jet which was, in fact, descending. The whole incident was a massive confluence of human and technical errors.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:36
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Yeah, any rear end in a top hat butterbar idiot knows about codeswapping, which is extremely common at initial takeoff. It is true that maybe people didn’t know this PFC-level info in 1988, but it is extremely basic physics. Also the CIC crew said it was descending when their system showed directly to them that it was not descending. Another US ship ID’d the flight as commercial air, but the Vincennes crew hosed it up and shot anyway. The US Navy officially declared it human error. Mich has been done in the US to assuage ourselves of killing 290 innocents on flight 655. It’s mostly rah rah bullshit, but at least more quietly on the training and system design side, people took note. Quietly.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:37
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Stultus Maximus posted:An ascending airliner does not look like an attacking F-14 on radar, period. Especially when it's literally in the process of taking off from your own civilian airport that your monitoring.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:39
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Hey time out I've got wholesome content on par with space-goatse French biologists have discovered a heretofore unnoticed class of maybe-living things that look like coral polyps but are the size of viruses married but discreet posted:Anyone read this paper?
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Jan 11, 2020 02:40
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dickwaving over who's airliner whoopsie was more justified is the biggest waste of time and mental energy imaginable, good lord
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Jan 11, 2020 02:41
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Acebuckeye13 posted:dickwaving over who's airliner whoopsie was more justified is the biggest waste of time and mental energy imaginable, good lord Neither are justified, trying to handwaive away the egregiousness of the idiocy of this one by whatabouting a 30+ year old incident that isn't comparable is some Glenn Greenwald poo poo though.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:45
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mlmp08 posted:Yeah, any rear end in a top hat butterbar idiot knows about codeswapping, which is extremely common at initial takeoff. It is true that maybe people didn’t know this PFC-level info in 1988, but it is extremely basic physics. Yes. I have sat in CIC and I have sat air defense watch, and I know exactly how loving inept you have to be to make that mistake.
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Jan 11, 2020 02:47
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"I knew he was a bad guy, except for that one time he did buisiness with me" https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/status/1215446506565537793?s=20
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Jan 11, 2020 02:47
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CommieGIR posted:"I knew he was a bad guy, except for that one time he did buisiness with me" deja loving vu
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Jan 11, 2020 02:56
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CommieGIR posted:It's worth pointing out that you are specifically making claims that the Russian Gru specifically tried to make about him in order to try to cover up for his investigation about them shooting down the Boeing I don't buy that in the least he's been pretty critical of US policy in many cases and he's been doing the open source intelligence stuff a lot longer than his bellingcat stuff originally did it as his brown Moses blog Like, back in the day, when the Soviets would respond to the US criticisms of their real human rights abuses with "and you lynch black people", they weren't wrong. They WERE commiting widespread human rights abuses, and so were we. We were trying to put the emphasis on their lovely behavior and they were trying to put the emphasis on our lovely behavior, all as part of lovely international power games. And at the time us civil rights groups were very angry about the lynching as well. Like sometimes various power blocks lie about what the other is doing, but it's usually far simpler for each side to point out the other's actual poo poo, because pretty much all great powers have an awful lot of poo poo they engage in. And it's not too hard to say "gee, the reason a bunch of gulf countries, Pakistan, China, etc contribute to think tanks and NGOs is because they're trying to push Washington to do stuff that benefits them" and then follow that up with "and when the US does the same thing they have the same exact intentions."
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Jan 11, 2020 03:07
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CommieGIR posted:"I knew he was a bad guy, except for that one time he did buisiness with me" 
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Jan 11, 2020 03:11
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Crakkerjakk posted:Like, back in the day, when the Soviets would respond to the US criticisms of their real human rights abuses with "and you lynch black people", they weren't wrong. They WERE commiting widespread human rights abuses, and so were we. We were trying to put the emphasis on their lovely behavior and they were trying to put the emphasis on our lovely behavior, all as part of lovely international power games. That has very little to do with Open Source Intelligence like Bellingcat, that gives you multiple EXTERNAL and verifiable sources provided by third parties. Its one thing to repeat propaganda, its another to give you all the tools and info to critique/fact check it.
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Jan 11, 2020 03:11
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Guys please stop hating America and our brave holy warriors, Mike Pence is crying
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Jan 11, 2020 03:20
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CommieGIR posted:That has very little to do with Open Source Intelligence like Bellingcat, that gives you multiple EXTERNAL and verifiable sources provided by third parties. Its one thing to repeat propaganda, its another to give you all the tools and info to critique/fact check it. Again, I'm not saying the Iranians didn't shoot down this airliner (it's the simplest explanation) or that Russian seperatists didn't shoot down the airliner in Ukraine (seems amply documented). It's that Bellingcat tends to focus on the misdeeds of the geopolitical enemies of the US and it's allies instead of the misdeeds of the US and it's allies. That's why the US sends them money.
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Jan 11, 2020 03:21
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Crakkerjakk posted:Again, I'm not saying the Iranians didn't shoot down this airliner (it's the simplest explanation) or that Russian seperatists didn't shoot down the airliner in Ukraine (seems amply documented). It's that Bellingcat tends to focus on the misdeeds of the geopolitical enemies of the US and it's allies instead of the misdeeds of the US and it's allies. That's why the US sends them money. And water is wet
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Jan 11, 2020 03:24
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mlmp08 posted:You are focusing on the current hot topic bad action and then as a result minimizing an even more egregious past fuckup. So the Vincennes was a Sea Cop?
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Jan 11, 2020 03:30
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SimonCat posted:So the Vincennes was a Sea Cop? When you put it that way, Iran Air _was_ in possession of a scuba diving tank...
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Jan 11, 2020 03:33
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Crakkerjakk posted:Again, I'm not saying the Iranians didn't shoot down this airliner (it's the simplest explanation) or that Russian seperatists didn't shoot down the airliner in Ukraine (seems amply documented). It's that Bellingcat tends to focus on the misdeeds of the geopolitical enemies of the US and it's allies instead of the misdeeds of the US and it's allies. That's why the US sends them money. Bellingcat has repeatedly investigated incidents and blamed the United States for the outcome. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2017/03/16/us-missile-remains-reportedly-recovered-from-site-of-aleppo-mosque-bombing/
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Jan 11, 2020 03:37
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Crakkerjakk posted:Again, I'm not saying the Iranians didn't shoot down this airliner (it's the simplest explanation) or that Russian seperatists didn't shoot down the airliner in Ukraine (seems amply documented). It's that Bellingcat tends to focus on the misdeeds of the geopolitical enemies of the US and it's allies instead of the misdeeds of the US and it's allies. That's why the US sends them money. See this: Smiling Jack posted:Bellingcat has repeatedly investigated incidents and blamed the United States for the outcome. He regularly critiques and does Intel and Analysis of US stuff too.
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Jan 11, 2020 03:50
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Jarmak posted:Neither are justified, trying to handwaive away the egregiousness of the idiocy of this one by whatabouting a 30+ year old incident that isn't comparable is some Glenn Greenwald poo poo though. Vincennes made almost exactly the same series of errors as the Iranian crew except track direction, but they DID have the advantage of literally having the flight schedule which they were unable to read properly due to poor lighting. And they killed twice as many people.
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Jan 11, 2020 04:02
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Biden... good? https://twitter.com/CleveWootson/status/1215834378619633666
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Jan 11, 2020 04:25
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shame on an IGA posted:Hey time out Everybody else apparently ignored this but I didn’t and it’s super cool so thank you
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Jan 11, 2020 04:25
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Looks like Iran is admitting they hosed up: https://twitter.com/farnazfassihi/status/1215841813644431361?s=20
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Jan 11, 2020 04:48
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LMAO
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Jan 11, 2020 04:53
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Current event: loving wear that probe like a badge of honor goon sir.https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3910537&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post501548405
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Jan 11, 2020 06:00
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Looks like Iran is admitting they hosed up: Yes, but isn't Bellingcat a shill for Imperialist America?
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Jan 11, 2020 06:12
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Jarmak posted:Trying to handwaive away the egregiousness of the idiocy of this one by whatabouting a 30+ year old incident that isn't comparable is some Glenn Greenwald poo poo though. Hey. gently caress this dumb poo poo know-nothing nonsense. I know it hurts your feelings to know that the big and good US military super hosed up in 1988, and you’re butthurt that people who have literally served on cruisers in the air defense section think you’re wrong, but don’t compare those arguments with Glenn loving Greenwald. I’ll take my sixer or whatever , but Jarmak does not even remotely know what the gently caress he is talking about and has a “USA! USA!” sized blind spot.
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Jan 11, 2020 06:19
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Of all the places to have this discussion, shouldnt GiP be the one to acknowledge that Joe is going to Joe, even when his name is Ivan or Mohammed?
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Jan 11, 2020 06:26
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mlmp08 posted:Hey. gently caress this dumb poo poo know-nothing nonsense. I know it hurts your feelings to know that the big and good US military super hosed up in 1988, and you’re butthurt that people who have literally served on cruisers in the air defense section think you’re wrong, but don’t compare those arguments with Glenn loving Greenwald. You're talking about a guy who said that Iran shooting down the Ukrainian flight (176 fatalities) is "orders of magnitude worse" than the United States shooting down the Iranian flight (290 fatalities) and you think I'm going to sixer you? What's in it for me?
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Jan 11, 2020 06:28
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stealie72 posted:Of all the places to have this discussion, shouldnt GiP be the one to acknowledge that Joe is going to Joe, even when his name is Ivan or Mohammed? It's been said a few times. But GIP isn't exactly flush with veterans anymore. Can't imagine why.
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Jan 11, 2020 06:30
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Victor Vermis posted:It's been said a few times. Not sure what you are implying here. While it’s true there are less than ten or fifteen years ago, there are still a lot of vets hanging around.
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Jan 11, 2020 06:33
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McNally posted:You're talking about a guy who said that Iran shooting down the Ukrainian flight (176 fatalities) is "orders of magnitude worse" than the United States shooting down the Iranian flight (290 fatalities) and you think I'm going to sixer you? Ill stop say gently caress 24 hours.
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Jan 11, 2020 06:33
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Melthir posted:Ill stop say gently caress 24 hours. Net loss for humanity
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Jan 11, 2020 07:17
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Hekk posted:Not sure what you are implying here. While it’s true there are less than ten or fifteen years ago, there are still a lot of vets hanging around. The current goings-ons in other parts of the forum are, in my opinion, the culmination of what I am implying. The Gooniest Goons of yore, having attained their final government-funded forms, have now organized themselves into two opposing factions and commenced dox combat. The Holy City of FYAD was eradicated in the impressive opening bombardment, and now an uneasy peace hangs in the balance while whispers of insurgency float on the sulfuric breeze. Ironic, I think, that GiP has assumed a docile posture and taken on the role of The Occupied. Maybe TGRS or [redacted] will print out some helpful language pamphlets or even fund some grass-roots security initiatives or infrastructure projects while we wait for Uncle 'Tax to flip the big light switch and cash out of this quagmire.
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Jan 11, 2020 07:36
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what
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Jan 11, 2020 07:49
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A tragic case of posting sickness. It's been going around lately.
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Jan 11, 2020 07:50
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I'm curious what the average reg date of the forums is.
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Jan 11, 2020 07:51
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