|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The mistake is in demanding a return to mysticism, when the entire point of the prequels is that the lightsabers and jedi robes are evidently mass-produced in a factory somewhere. There's nothing holy here. It's all a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense.
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 06:46 |
|
|
zer0spunk posted:i would have, wholeheartedly and unironically, given a standing ovation if the big reveal after all 9 movies of the saga was an extremely eloquent jar jar binks being the mastermind of everything (as voiced by peter serafinowicz) You would have given a standing ovation if they whitewashed Jar Jar
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:29
|
|
|
The Little Death posted:The Prequels started the prop-focused trend that the ST capitalized on. Everything from Jedi Robes to lightsabers, things featured sparingly in the OT, become super common and totems in their own right. I mean, it's not even clear that Jedi were meant to always wear earth-tone coloured robes. Uncle Owen wears them, because he lives in a desert and they are modeled on bedouin robes. But suddenly in the PT all the Jedi dress like Obi-wan and all the little kid padawans dress like Luke. Even beyond the midichlorians, as SMG has said the PTs demystify the force and turn it from something that people like Han can be skeptical of, to something that objectively people should believe in because acrobatic space samurai were backflipping 30 feet in the air within living memory by the time ANH comes around. C-3P0 and R2 also become inexplicably linked to multiple main characters, leading to the universe feeling a lot smaller. The PT aren't without merit but they do suffer from the same creative drift that the ST would have much worse. Robes had already become the uniform of the Jedi by the end of the original trilogy. Yoda, Luke and ghost Anakin all wear them, as well as Ben Kenobi. You might notice that this short list of Jedi who wear robes includes every Jedi we ever see in those three films.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:29
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:You would have given a standing ovation if they whitewashed Jar Jar I recall there was a scene removed from Attack of the Clones where Representative Binks speaks with upper-class accent and diction about how when he entered the Senate, his preparations included voice coaching, though he doesn't really see the point of it. Then he switches back to his native Gungan dialect. cargohills posted:Robes had already become the uniform of the Jedi by the end of the original trilogy. Yoda, Luke and ghost Anakin all wear them, as well as Ben Kenobi. You might notice that this short list of Jedi who wear robes includes every Jedi we ever see in those three films. What's more, when he goes back to Tatooine, although Anakin is wearing robes with a similar design to Owen and Clegg, his are made from a much finer material. The Jedi are cosplaying at poverty.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:32
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:You would have given a standing ovation if they whitewashed Jar Jar how do you whitewash an alien Bongo Bill posted:It's all a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense. i like the idea of skeptical reaction to the mysticism in the OG movies, like the imperial officer in the board room vader starts to choke out after his poo poo talking, or hans because of the direct actions of the prequels...i sort of wish we got more of that in the actual prequels with people treating them like weirdo culty monks instead of lightsaber police
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
zer0spunk posted:how do you whitewash an alien By taking their attributes and signifiers that are unlike those of the white human characters, such as accent and dress, and replacing them with attributes and signifiers that are more like those of the white human characters. When writing fantasy, one thing that aliens can be useful for is as a way to interact with the concept of otherness abstractly, while incorporating fewer direct comparisons to existing otherized groups.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The mistake is in demanding a return to mysticism, when the entire point of the prequels is that the lightsabers and jedi robes are evidently mass-produced in a factory somewhere. There's nothing holy here. I prefer to imagine that the robes are sewn by younglings in a Mr. Miyagi kind of training regimen. Younglings are not paid, of course. quote:This gives Han Solo more reason to be atheist, because doing nifty backflips doesn't make you God. The Jedi religion is specifically that the Force suffuses all matter and determines the fate of all material reality, and there's obviously no scientific evidence that midichlorians do that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:38
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:By taking their attributes and signifiers that are unlike those of the white human characters, such as accent and dress, and replacing them with attributes and signifiers that are more like those of the white human characters. When writing fantasy, one thing that aliens can be useful for is as a way to interact with the concept of otherness abstractly, while incorporating fewer direct comparisons to existing otherized groups. it's an alien, it's not supposed to be representative of any human race..because..space alien. i'm actually totally into getting into this, cuz deep down i think the nemodians(sp?) being ethnically space Asian was a weird rear end choice made by george lucas..
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:40
|
|
|
cargohills posted:Robes had already become the uniform of the Jedi by the end of the original trilogy. Yoda, Luke and ghost Anakin all wear them, as well as Ben Kenobi. You might notice that this short list of Jedi who wear robes includes every Jedi we ever see in those three films. Actually you're right, the fetishization starts with RoTJ.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
cargohills posted:Robes had already become the uniform of the Jedi by the end of the original trilogy. Yoda, Luke and ghost Anakin all wear them, as well as Ben Kenobi. You might notice that this short list of Jedi who wear robes includes every Jedi we ever see in those three films. capes seem impractical when sword fighting
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:49
|
|
|
zer0spunk posted:it's an alien, it's not supposed to be representative of any human race..because..space alien. Right, the point is that the aliens get given a mishmash of different and normally non-coexisting traits in order to make them seem "foreign" or "other" generally, rather than specific representations of some Earth-originating stereotype. The Nemoidians had Thai accents but dressed like Catholic priests and were chiefly concerned with eliminating governmental regulations, for instance. People tend to remember the accent first and foremost but they weren't really Asian stereotypes (and their accent was an actual Thai accent as opposed to a racist parody of same).
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:50
|
|
|
I loved the Leonard Nimoydians when I was a kid because I'd watched so much Star Trek where all the aliens just talked like CNN newsreaders and had thought to myself "aliens should have weird accents to highlight that they're different and didn't grow up speaking English" like why does the guy in Babylon 5 who looks like a human with wacky hair have a non-American accent but the guy who looks like a demon doesn't?! Then Episode 1 comes along and it has these guys talking in what to my young ears sounded like French accents, and Watto sounded Pakistani or something, it felt properly "sci-fi"
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 21:59
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:I loved the Leonard Nimoydians when I was a kid because I'd watched so much Star Trek where all the aliens just talked like CNN newsreaders and had thought to myself "aliens should have weird accents to highlight that they're different and didn't grow up speaking English" like why does the guy in Babylon 5 who looks like a human with wacky hair have a non-American accent but the guy who looks like a demon doesn't?! I always respected things that had aliens speak specific gibberish and then subtitled it to english. That's dedication to a bit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:03
|
|
|
zer0spunk posted:it's an alien, it's not supposed to be representative of any human race..because..space alien. Well, yes. That's my point. Jar Jar is a subaltern minority who is openly scorned by the upper crust from the galactic capital, but for all that Ahmed Best drew on explicitly racial elements of vaudeville and on characters like Goofy who were inspired by the same, he's not really coded black. His people are named for the poem "Gunga Din," their accent is a total invention, and the racial tension between the Gungans and the Naboo is more colonial in nature. The Neimoidians speak with an imitation of a Thai accent, while wearing the robes of Catholic cardinals. Far from being a Fu Manchu rear end cunning mastermind, Nute Gunray is just a libertarian patsy who's in way over his head. Watto's got all kinds of generically swarthy poo poo going on, a greasy junk dealer and gambling addict of a small businessman, disdainful of stuck-up snobs from the galactic core. It's odd to me that people read him as a Jewish stereotype - if anything he skirts closer to Italian-American - but the point is that, to the extent that he resembles a racial caricature, it's that he has the attributes of the caricature itself and none of those of the people being caricatured. And then there's Darth Maul, who looks like Satan but is actually just out for revenge against the cops. That's pretty scary if you're a cop, I guess. Meanwhile, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan take all of these scenarios for what they appear to be without looking deeper: some useless yokel instead of a loyal friend who can bridge the divide between two peoples, a conniving and ruthless invader instead of a pawn in a larger scheme, a cruel and avaricious slave-owner instead of just some guy playing a deeply crooked game, and an avatar of pure malice instead of an enemy with a specific objective. What does it get them? Well, one of them dies, and at the end of the movie the true villain and titular Phantom Menace remains undetected, gets everything he wants, and throws himself a parade. What is The Unseen Problem? Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:05
|
|
|
zer0spunk posted:I always respected things that had aliens speak specific gibberish and then subtitled it to english. That's dedication to a bit. The "gibberish" is actually a phonetic transcription of a real Earth language, recited by an English-speaking actor. Greedo was speaking Quechua.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:07
|
|
|
zer0spunk posted:I always respected things that had aliens speak specific gibberish and then subtitled it to english. That's dedication to a bit. God, how many movies even do something like Chewbacca? A loving yeti man who communicates by growling! That's his language!! Where's your Universal Translator now?!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:11
|
|
|
Rewatching bits and pieces of TFA, I can't understand why they separated Poe and Finn for basically the rest of the trilogy. They have great chemistry, the audience pretty much universally loved their buddy schtick, the actors clearly get along, so what happened? Both of them became completely unmoored in TLJ and by the last one they're barely cohesive characters anymore. It's a shame.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:21
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:The "gibberish" is actually a phonetic transcription of a real Earth language, recited by an English-speaking actor. Greedo was speaking Quechua.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:30
|
|
|
zer0spunk posted:it's an alien, it's not supposed to be representative of any human race..because..space alien. George Lucas took inspiration from old serials and all the racism that comes with that
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:35
|
|
|
The Little Death posted:The Prequels started the prop-focused trend that the ST capitalized on. Everything from Jedi Robes to lightsabers, things featured sparingly in the OT, become super common and totems in their own right. I mean, it's not even clear that Jedi were meant to always wear earth-tone coloured robes. Uncle Owen wears them, because he lives in a desert and they are modeled on bedouin robes. But suddenly in the PT all the Jedi dress like Obi-wan and all the little kid padawans dress like Luke. Even beyond the midichlorians, as SMG has said the PTs demystify the force and turn it from something that people like Han can be skeptical of, to something that objectively people should believe in because acrobatic space samurai were backflipping 30 feet in the air within living memory by the time ANH comes around. C-3P0 and R2 also become inexplicably linked to multiple main characters, leading to the universe feeling a lot smaller. The PT aren't without merit but they do suffer from the same creative drift that the ST would have much worse. Actually, the design of Obi-Wan's robes were different from Luke and Owen's even in ANH. And in the PT the Jedi all have their own customized robes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:46
|
|
|
maclunkey
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 22:47
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Actually, the design of Obi-Wan's robes were different from Luke and Owen's even in ANH. this is true but they arent visually distinct enough to have that stick in people's minds. They should have had much wilder designs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 23:00
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:this is true but they arent visually distinct enough to have that stick in people's minds. They should have had much wilder designs. One of them wears a tube top.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 23:06
|
|
|
sassassin posted:One of them wears a tube top. That is because she is of the sex alien species, but look at this, they arent that visually distinct And we don't dwell on the other jedi enough to get a good representation of different "wear", since the majority of the screen time goes with Anakin & Obi. And TBF, Anakin's jedi outfit kicks rear end. And the one scene where we get a lot of "extra" jedi, the AOTC arena battle they hosed up and gave all the extras either generic anakin type outfits with the leather MK ninja straps or Obi style obi's . The PT clearly cultivated a LOOK based on the OT robes. I'd have loved to have seen some wildly different outfits. I'm reading through the old dark horse tales of the jedi and I'd love it if they took some inspiration from there too. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jan 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2020 23:41
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:Rewatching bits and pieces of TFA, I can't understand why they separated Poe and Finn for basically the rest of the trilogy. They have great chemistry, the audience pretty much universally loved their buddy schtick, the actors clearly get along, so what happened? Both of them became completely unmoored in TLJ and by the last one they're barely cohesive characters anymore. It's a shame. disney was terrified about the finn/poe shipping memes, and the fact that boyega and isaac were pushing for it, too
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 01:12
|
|
|
Horizon Burning posted:disney was terrified about the finn/poe shipping memes, and the fact that boyega and isaac were pushing for it, too It's actually hilarious. The line between a mancrush and a straight up crush is obviously small, but when Poe give Finn his Letterman jacket and winks it's hard to interpret any other way. And then, instead of even just leaving it ambiguous it was like a whiplash away from it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 01:20
|
|
|
The Little Death posted:It's actually hilarious. The line between a mancrush and a straight up crush is obviously small, but when Poe give Finn his Letterman jacket and winks it's hard to interpret any other way. And then, instead of even just leaving it ambiguous it was like a whiplash away from it. doesn't poe look finn up and down and toothily bite his lip?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 01:21
|
|
|
Horizon Burning posted:doesn't poe look finn up and down and toothily bite his lip? yea, it's like very hard to interpret it any other way 
Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jan 12, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 01:24
|
|
|
pospysyl posted:Disney Star Wars loves "things" because they're the way the audience can materially commune with the Star Wars setting and become more complete people by buying merchandise. Outside of video games, you or I can't manifest psychic powers or fight fascists without any risk of bodily harm, but we can buy a Millennium Falcon toy or build a lightsaber in BatuuDisney. It also means the success of the saga is no longer tied to the characters, who are played by actors that require payment and have rights to their own likenesses.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 01:58
|
|
|
We're talking about gungan racism again? Time truly is a flat circle. Oh wait...I'm getting a premonition of the future...a vision from the force.. it's a post ...it says....4000 posts later we are no closer to consensus Dark the future is. Does this mean I have to sneak into zer0spunks bedroom at night and menacingly cock a shotgun or something?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 02:07
|
|
|
Insane Totoro posted:This seems like an exceptionally long winded way to say "I'll never get laid (except for desperate girls)" Just you waiting until he breaks out his home made plus-sized Kylo Ren costume. The Rey-babe panties be droppin' at that point. He dreams. zer0spunk posted:i would have, wholeheartedly and unironically, given a standing ovation if the big reveal after all 9 movies of the saga was an extremely eloquent jar jar binks being the mastermind of everything (as voiced by peter serafinowicz) Given all the mockery he's received, it's not exactly a stretch that Jar-Jar would be filled with anger and hate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 02:45
|
|
|
The prequels are poo poo and the sequels are poo poo. I loving hate Star Wars.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 05:08
|
|
|
Asgerd posted:The prequels are poo poo and the sequels are poo poo. I loving hate Star Wars. Ah, a true Star Wars fan. Greetings,
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 05:33
|
|
|
Horizon Burning posted:disney was terrified about the finn/poe shipping memes, and the fact that boyega and isaac were pushing for it, too I really want to believe it's something other than kathleen kennedy sitting in her office with her fingers in her ears shouting "no homo" until people stop talking about it, but I'm having a hard time shaking that vision.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 06:21
|
|
|
I have heard the idea that an early draft of The Force Awakens had Poe as more of a father figure role to Finn than a peer, and didn't survive the crash, but plans changed based on what Oscar Isaac brought to the role.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 07:07
|
|
|
Terrorist Fistbump posted:Dark Greetings,
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 07:10
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:I really want to believe it's something other than kathleen kennedy sitting in her office with her fingers in her ears shouting "no homo" until people stop talking about it, but I'm having a hard time shaking that vision. Up until Last Jedi Kennedy and Johnson among others were all teasing that "oh maybe, oh we might", and then they didn't. I don't think it was intentional, maybe just the way Isaac played it and the chemistry the two had. But they leaned into it, only to recoil away from it at the last minute.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 07:11
|
|
|
zer0spunk posted:i like that the defense of this movie is "it's about space wizards, why were you expecting anything?" RLM's "What did you expect, rear end in a top hat?" has become become Disney's default poster tagline. "They blew you up today, you'll blow them up tomorrow, go get your pilot back, lover boy." -DJ
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 07:21
|
|
The Little Death posted:Up until Last Jedi Kennedy and Johnson among others were all teasing that "oh maybe, oh we might", and then they didn't. I don't think it was intentional, maybe just the way Isaac played it and the chemistry the two had. But they leaned into it, only to recoil away from it at the last minute. Its not that they "recoiled suddenly," a core aspect of queerbaiting is never actually delivering, its just that until they were (somehow) blindsidsd by all three of their leads choosing not to renew their contracts, so they had to actually put a pin in it instead of dragging it out for years through sequels and spinoffs.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 09:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 06:46 |
|
|
Watching ANH on TBS and I had almost forgotten they snuck the Outrider in one of the Mos Eisley establishing shots Just wanted to remind everyone Shadows of the Empire existed Edit: no MACLUNKEY though. EDIT 2x: It is also striking how bad the re-inserted Jabba scene is. Messes with the pacing, is half recycled dialog from the Greedo scene, and fucks up the Falcon's reveal when Luke and Obi-Wan get to the spaceport. None of these are original observations, but its been a while since I've watched this movie so you have to read them. Boxman fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Jan 12, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 15:50
|
|
