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Tesseraction posted:Would it? Unless you put obvious cunts like Pollard on it then I don't see this being as big of an issue. Yeah, it says ‘an independent organisation’, it doesn’t say which. Technically the demand would be met by appointing Hamas as the organisation in question (don’t do that). The general case is that for the Labour Party, it should be the case that levels of racism (and also sexism, transphobia, etc.) that don’t actually literally break the law are nevertheless career ending. Or, more relevantly, hobby-ending; if someone can be banned from their local warhammer group for being racist, at least the same should be true of the local party. And it should not be the case that every inter-faction or policy fight should be resolved by trying to end careers or expel members in that way. The A/S issue was not made up by the press out of whole cloth; it had legs because the right of the party was prepared to use it as a weapon, to go on record in the Sun and Times saying there was a problem. An independent system that can dismiss bogus complaints, and uphold valid ones, without anyone making the decisions knowing or caring whether those involved are members of particular factions is about the only way out of the dilemma. It will presumably be expensive, but it seems worth finding the money.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:07 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 01:58 |
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Communist Thoughts posted:Yeah I think #2 and #8 are particularly bad, the rest are meh. Maybe #6 too but less so. Which is all very well until any interviewer asks the question. Which they will, because the know it's a perfect way to derail any leftist who's doing even slightly well in an interview. AT which point, you can't ignore it, you can't deflect it, you can't dodge it, they will use up every ounce of time available to them re-asking it if you try, hell, they'll use every ounce of time re-asking it even if you give the perfect nuanced two-sentence soundbite answer (that doesn't exist).
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:08 |
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Guavanaut posted:If it's independent then you're giving up the right to decide whether obvious cunts sit on it or not to a third party unaccountable to to NEC or the membership. And the NEC is then condemned for anti-Semitism because it refused to address the problem in an acceptable way.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:09 |
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Guavanaut posted:Fast forward to Labour deferring to a beth din of the most Orthodox Jews imaginable, and they're all Third Temple diasporic Jews who regard secular Israel as a traitor state acting against the coming of the Messiah. I'm not sure the Israeli rabbinate will take the case.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:11 |
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Outsource antisemitism disciplinary matters to Jewdas.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:11 |
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Facehammer posted:Outsource antisemitism disciplinary matters to Jewdas. See #8. They got ahead of that. I'd have been cool with 'find the most socialest kibbutz and ask them to take it on'
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:19 |
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drat. That certainly would have melted some brains.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:23 |
Marmaduke! posted:Let's face it, it's going to be someone like Keir Starmer is going to be leader, and it's just going to be a matter of time before he gets hit by an antisemitism accusation despite acquiescing and while he'll be shocked we'll be able to enjoy the schadenfreude. Why, when the majority of the membership delivered Corbyn, twice, in landslides?
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:24 |
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StarkingBarfish posted:See #8. They got ahead of that. I'd have been cool with 'find the most socialest kibbutz and ask them to take it on' The vast majority of Kibbutzim have been privatised and make a poo poo ton of money now!
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:29 |
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Okay, new proposal, all cases to be independently judged by Irving Leonard Finkel, by interpretation of the Code of Ur-Nammu (except the slavery bits). Three kur of barley per antisemitism, welcome to clay court, binches!
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:31 |
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Azza Bamboo posted:There'll be a time where the party says it's met all the BoD's demands but the BoD disagrees and that'll hit the papers hard. This is almost certainly going to happen, but I honestly don't know a practical way of avoiding or mitigating it. Particularly on point #2, the independent body, since they can plausibly cause a stink if anyone except themselves is named. The thread's apparently preferred solution of "tell BoD to gently caress off," while totally understandable, doesn't really seem like it would help here.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:32 |
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Guavanaut posted:Okay, new proposal, all cases to be independently judged by Irving Leonard Finkel, by interpretation of the Code of Ur-Nammu (except the slavery bits). Three kur of barley per antisemitism, welcome to clay court, binches! Is that the new Greggs vegan steak bake he's holding?
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:33 |
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Guavanaut posted:https://twitter.com/BoardofDeputies/status/1216290591442722816 I like 8 personally, and how it low key delineates should is and isn’t allowed to be Jewish representation.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:36 |
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Bundy posted:Why, when the majority of the membership delivered Corbyn, twice, in landslides? you maybe missed the devastating defeat that happened last month
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:36 |
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Dawn Butler and Rosena Allin-Khan have both got enough nominations for Deputy now.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:36 |
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Miftan posted:Is that the new Greggs vegan steak bake he's holding? Ahem, Greggs *Kosher* steak bake goyim
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:37 |
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thespaceinvader posted:Which is all very well until any interviewer asks the question. Which they will, because the know it's a perfect way to derail any leftist who's doing even slightly well in an interview. of course you can dodge and deflect it, thats what politicians do. just say you support a 2 state or 1 state solution and you hope the people of the region can come together you just have to not actually go "well israel is a racist apartheid state" because while true its a very controversial thing to say for no gain at all e: fwiw youd still end up getting the BoD or whatever on your rear end but thered be a gently caress of a lot less oxygen for the news trashfire
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:39 |
Communist Thoughts posted:you maybe missed the devastating defeat that happened last month Oh, did all the left leaning members leave the party en masse December 13th?
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:39 |
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Bundy posted:Oh, did all the left leaning members leave the party en masse December 13th? we will see how present and united the left vote are pretty soon but its silly to expect the vote will be as lockstep as it was 3 years ago
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:42 |
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Miftan posted:Is that the new Greggs vegan steak bake he's holding? (I do not want to know Piers Morgan's opinion on anything, but it'd be more interesting than his usual mouth sharts.) Lightning Knight posted:I like 8 personally, and how it low key delineates should is and isnt allowed to be Jewish representation. They've made that transparently obvious by saying that JLM must be consulted in #7, apparently they are not fringe despite being a relatively new restructuring, and having more of a focus on support for Israel rather than JVL's criteria of "are you Jewish or close enough that you've been affected by antisemitism?"
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:43 |
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floofyscorp posted:Dawn Butler and Rosena Allin-Khan have both got enough nominations for Deputy now. gently caress yes, can't wait to slam a vote down for Butler
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 14:47 |
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Azza Bamboo posted:There'll be a time where the party says it's met all the BoD's demands but the BoD disagrees and that'll hit the papers hard. And that time will be just at the beginning of the campaign season for the locals in May. A bigger cynic than me might suggest it may also happen a week or so before the next time Israel decides to kill a bunch of civilians because the ebbs and flows of this story seem to match up nicely with that, starting with the Gaza border protests in 2018, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence (because you can match almost anything up with that, because they do it so loving often)
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:00 |
Communist Thoughts posted:we will see how present and united the left vote are pretty soon More or less silly than just declaring it a given that Starmer is leader in waiting?
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:01 |
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Bundy posted:More or less silly than just declaring it a given that Starmer is leader in waiting? i don't really have a strong prediction of who is likely to win but I do think the corbyny membership uniting behind RLB with a corbyn style mandate isn't a given. there seems to be considerably less enthusiasm for her than there was for him in 2015/7, due to a number of factors whether theyr to do with her as a candidate or just general low morale.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:05 |
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Bundy posted:More or less silly than just declaring it a given that Starmer is leader in waiting? Nominations aren't even closed yet, and Andy Burnham was leader in waiting at this point in 2015. It's pointless to try and predict how this election will go with so much still to play for.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:06 |
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Communist Thoughts posted:i don't really have a strong prediction of who is likely to win The enthusiasm for Corbyn didn't exist at this point in 2015 either. However, I doubt RLB is going to storm the hustings in quite the same way as Corbyn did, if only because the candidates have all presumably learned the lesson of that campaign and are going to at least attempt to sound like they have solid convictions rather than being Markov bots trained on Davos speeches and think-tank papers. I don't think any candidate has anything like the votes for a first-round win, which should be a big concern for RLB in particular - it's very unlikely she'll pick up many second or third choices IMO because the right of the party are likely to throw themselves behind Jessflaps or Starmer and you're likely to see them campaigning strongly on "Anyone but RLB" towards the end of the campaign. e: I realise I said in literally the post above that it's pointless to predict how the election will go but I mean in terms of overall winner, I don't think it's particularly controversial or outlandish to say that the above is likely to happen. goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jan 13, 2020 |
# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:12 |
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The enthusiasm for Corbyn didn't exist at this point in 2015 either. However, I doubt RLB is going to storm the hustings in quite the same way as Corbyn did, if only because the candidates have all presumably learned the lesson of that campaign and are going to at least attempt to sound like they have solid convictions rather than being Markov bots trained on Davos speeches and think-tank papers. Actually, what is the timeline here? Is the date even fixed yet?
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:20 |
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genericnick posted:Actually, what is the timeline here? Is the date even fixed yet? https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/LE20-Procedures-and-Timetabale.pdf (the typo in the filename is pretty lol) code:
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:24 |
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Bundy posted:Oh, did all the left leaning members leave the party en masse December 13th? pretty sure a lot of them are going to be cutting up their membership cards over the BoD thing yeah
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:33 |
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Thornberry has made it over the line.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 15:56 |
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I have an idea but it'd mean Emily Thornberry willingly ending her career. She should go loud against the BoD and be as virulently anti Israel as possible to then be dismissed by whoever wins as a result of their apparent compliance with the BoD terms.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:05 |
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Azza Bamboo posted:I have an idea but it'd mean Emily Thornberry willingly ending her career. She's unequivocally accepted all the conditions. I'm waiting to see what Clive Lewis does.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:26 |
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I'm waiting to see what Clive Lewis does. He's withdrawn.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:30 |
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oh well enjoy New Labour 2.0 I guess
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:39 |
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If there a summary of leaders and deputies from most to least Correct? I think I have my first picks down, but not so sure who to put for second, third, etc preferences.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:39 |
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:He's withdrawn. Oh I missed that.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:45 |
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So Labour is going to vacillate back to the right with Starmer and we'll have to fight to get a new Corbyn in yet again? It's almost a worse case scenario that Starmer wins a GE in 2024 and we go at least 9 years without a real left-wing voice. I don't mind Starmer to be honest so it's hard to hate on him but in an ideal world he would be the leader of a sane version of the Tory party instead.
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:46 |
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team overhead smash posted:If there a summary of leaders and deputies from most to least Correct? I think I have my first picks down, but not so sure who to put for second, third, etc preferences.
Deputy Leader:
Jess Phillips:
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:48 |
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/07/labour-leadership-where-do-the-candidates-stand I'm breaking my post-election ban on politics posting to say is this peak guardian to have "view of corbynism" next to the candidates. Can't they just leave the boy in peace
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:50 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 01:58 |
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Really impressive how many people in this thread have the powers of prognostication and already know the result of the Labour leader race!
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# ? Jan 13, 2020 16:52 |