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Arist posted:Yeah, I don't think Meg's convictions are necessarily fake or performative at all, she just ultimately turns out to be kind of a weak person when put to the test. And, honestly, it's not like that's a new or uncommon thing: quote:Luke 18:18-23 (with the context of vss. 24-30 also)
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Jan 9, 2020 21:01
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The telling point with Meg, I feel, is that in that phone call to Marta, the exact moment she gets the concession to pay for her schooling, she launches into “thanks-so-much-gotta-go-bye” and hangs up. Didn’t even finish out the conversation naturally.
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Jan 9, 2020 21:22
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I read that as her not handling it well when Marta promised that she'd be taken care of, just like she had been to Marta.
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Jan 10, 2020 00:06
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Ditocoaf posted:I read that as her not handling it well when Marta promised that she'd be taken care of, just like she had been to Marta. I agree. Figure "I'll take care of you just like you've taken care of me" can have some fairly less-than-positive connotations...
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Jan 10, 2020 01:24
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Yeah that's super funny because they act so magnanimous towards Marta with "we'll take care of you" and when they're given the same line they lash out like wolves.
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Jan 10, 2020 01:38
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Meg genuinely wanted Marta taken care of. And of all the family was the one who cared about Marta the most. But Marta still wasn't real family, and the difference between Meg taking care of Marta and Marta taking care of Meg was enough to get Meg to turn. Alternatively, Meg was totally willing to give Marta someone else's money, but not her own. Patrick Spens fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jan 10, 2020 |
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Jan 10, 2020 01:56
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Watching internet communists call for a victimized broke college student be sent to the guillotine for being manipulated by her abusive parent is legitimately depressing, especially knowing that there are so many abused spouses and children who remain in abusive relationships due to similar financial pressures that have to see it and deal with what is essentially victim blaming.
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Jan 10, 2020 02:04
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Patrick Spens posted:Meg genuinely wanted Marta taken care of. And of all the family was the one who cared about Marta the most. But Marta still wasn't real family, and the difference between Meg taking care of Marta and Marta taking care of Meg was enough to get Meg to turn. In ranking the family members, Meg probably falls fairly mild in the Evil-o-meter. Her actions against Marta seemed to arise out of panic and, later, due to the manipulations of the other in her family. I think Meg was at least partially sincere in begging Marta's forgiveness (though it was also in service of trying to appease someone she believed had total financial power over her). Had things gone as expected for the family (they split Harlan's money/etc), Meg might well have been the only one among them that tried to stay in touch with Marta.
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Jan 10, 2020 04:11
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The true test is if Meg actually voted to have Marta at the funeral.
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Jan 10, 2020 09:59
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DrVenkman posted:The true test is if Meg actually voted to have Marta at the funeral. In my internal canon, everyone who said they voted for her didn’t, and anyone who didn’t mention it did.
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Jan 10, 2020 10:53
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Red Oktober posted:In my internal canon, everyone who said they voted for her didn’t, and anyone who didn’t mention it did. I'd guess that not only wasn't there a vote, but none of them even considered that she might attend.
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Jan 10, 2020 14:19
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Sleeveless posted:Watching internet communists call for a victimized broke college student be sent to the guillotine for being manipulated by her abusive parent is legitimately depressing, especially knowing that there are so many abused spouses and children who remain in abusive relationships due to similar financial pressures that have to see it and deal with what is essentially victim blaming. This is a weapons grade bad take. Meg isn't a "victimized broke college student", she's a rich kid going to grad school without loans or scholarships using her family's fortune. And again, her "abusive parents" didn't know that Meg knew secrets about Marta that could be used against her, Meg volunteered that information the very first time ever she felt desperate. You're confusing the imagery where the rest of the family is revealed looking over her shoulder at the phone conversation to mean that they were threateningly forcing her to make the call. But that imagery was used to reveal to the audience that the rest of the family was in on the call, and Meg looks scared because Marta's answer concerned her and she felt guilty.
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Jan 10, 2020 15:18
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Guy A. Person posted:This is a weapons grade bad take. Meg isn't a "victimized broke college student", she's a rich kid going to grad school without loans or scholarships using her family's fortune. And again, her "abusive parents" didn't know that Meg knew secrets about Marta that could be used against her, Meg volunteered that information the very first time ever she felt desperate. I think it's easy enough to be more forgiving of Meg because shes way less demonstrative than the rest of her family in terms of being a greedy monster.
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Jan 10, 2020 18:36
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I think it's easy enough to be more forgiving of Meg because shes way less demonstrative than the rest of her family in terms of being a greedy monster. Oh absolutely, there's just a wide gulf between "destitute abuse victim who has no responsibility for her actions" and "terrible capitalist wealth monster betrayer" and Meg falls somewhere in there but not really near either extreme. The characterization is fantastic and complex which is why it's interesting to discuss tho.
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Jan 10, 2020 18:44
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As much as I want to believe that Meg is going to break from the rest of her family and actually learn the right lesson from the end of the film, I just don't think there's anything to support that.
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Jan 10, 2020 18:45
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Marta's sister's "Is it true? Are we rich?" is a really cool line
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Jan 11, 2020 08:42
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awesmoe posted:Marta's sister's "Is it true? Are we rich?" is a really cool line I wish we had gotten a tiny bit more of Marta's family; in particular I would have liked to see more of her mom's reaction to having her citizenship status used as a pawn by the Thrombys
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Jan 11, 2020 20:08
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Whole lotta people giving the Nice Liberal White Girl a lot of benefit of the doubt, tbh.SpiderHyphenMan posted:As much as I want to believe that Meg is going to break from the rest of her family and actually learn the right lesson from the end of the film, I just don't think there's anything to support that. jivjov posted:I wish we had gotten a tiny bit more of Marta's family; in particular I would have liked to see more of her mom's reaction to having her citizenship status used as a pawn by the Thrombys
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Jan 11, 2020 20:45
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FilthyImp posted:I don't think we need to see a woman's abject terror at Rich White People threatening to send her to La Migra, personally. Maybe we get an amazing string of Spanish cursewords tossed about as a comedy scene but that would undercut just how existentially horrific the whole thing is and how monstrous the family is. That's absolutely fair. I was coming at it from the angle of the mom being the one being most directly threatened, but Marta being the one dealing with it all--but your point is absolutely valid jivjov fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jan 11, 2020 |
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Jan 11, 2020 21:02
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I had a coworker who rallied against people who call themselves allies. Her main thing was that she felt those who label themselves as allies are false in that most of them will never put their own privilege at risk in the name of their "alliance." I think that notion really sums up Meg.
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Jan 11, 2020 21:27
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jivjov posted:I was coming at it from the angle of the mom being the one being lost directly threatened, but Marta being the one dealing with it all VvV And, it works on a other level aside from the immediate INS threat: She's able to realize that she has ways to stave off the Thromby clan. They might have been able to say "we're going to contest and drag this out and High Priced Lawyers!" before (which is chilling to someone without the means or savvy to navigate that), but she now knows that she HAS those lawyers and the money to fight them off. It's just a complete backfire. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 11, 2020 21:50
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Timeless Appeal posted:I had a coworker who rallied against people who call themselves allies. Her main thing was that she felt those who label themselves as allies are false in that most of them will never put their own privilege at risk in the name of their "alliance." I think that notion really sums up Meg. One of the more fun aspects of this movie is realizing that Marta's most important ally and the one most inclined to trust her and believe in her is the White Male Southern Gentleman Detective. FilthyImp posted:Yeah, I could see that. But the beauty of the actual confrontation she has, where she doesn't cower and instead realizes the threat is empty and she has the resources she needs already, is such an amazing scene that I wouldn't want anything to mess with it. Marta having that realization and politely telling Walt to go suck poo poo and die was a thing of true beauty and wonder.
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Jan 12, 2020 03:01
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This movie is really good. Craig is goddamn hilarious, having him play a more dour style of James Bond was a waste in retrospect.
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Jan 13, 2020 20:09
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Yeah him being typecast for action is in retrospect a travesty.
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Jan 13, 2020 20:20
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This should have been nominated for Picture and Director.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:23
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MiddleOne posted:Yeah him being typecast for action is in retrospect a travesty. I've said for years that one of the unifying elements of Bond actors is that while they may be able to play cool badasses, they're always better at playing dipshits.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:33
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He was a lot of fun in Logan Lucky too.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:36
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Colonel Whitey posted:This should have been nominated for Picture and Director. 
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Jan 13, 2020 22:05
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I've said for years that one of the unifying elements of Bond actors is that while they may be able to play cool badasses, they're always better at playing dipshits. 
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Jan 13, 2020 22:15
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This is my poo poo right here
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Jan 13, 2020 22:55
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I've said for years that one of the unifying elements of Bond actors is that while they may be able to play cool badasses, they're always better at playing dipshits. The secret is that Bond himself is a tremendous dipshit.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:04
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Colonel Whitey posted:This should have been nominated for Picture and Director. 
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Jan 14, 2020 02:21
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Colonel Whitey posted:This is my poo poo right here Have some different poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnLnyMPmX3g
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Jan 14, 2020 03:14
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I really liked this movie. One question I had: towards the end, Benoit Blanc brings Marta to talk to the family. However, at that moment, he reads the toxicology report and his whole demeanor changes. I didn't really understand this scene. Why did Benoit bring Marta there, and why did his attitude change so much? I know that he saw the toxicology report and realized that Marta didn't give Harlan the morphine. Still, he must have already known that there was a lot more going on than Marta accidentally giving Harlan morphine. After all, the lab had already burnt down and someone had tried to kill the housekeeper. So he knew that someone was trying to cover something up, and he didn't think it was Marta. So before he read the toxicology report, what was he thinking, and why did he bring Marta to talk with the family? Was he just planning to continue the investigation some more afterwards? Still, this was a fantastic movie.
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Jan 17, 2020 04:04
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DorianGravy posted:I really liked this movie. One question I had: towards the end, Benoit Blanc brings Marta to talk to the family. However, at that moment, he reads the toxicology report and his whole demeanor changes. I didn't really understand this scene. Why did Benoit bring Marta there, and why did his attitude change so much? I know that he saw the toxicology report and realized that Marta didn't give Harlan the morphine. Still, he must have already known that there was a lot more going on than Marta accidentally giving Harlan morphine. After all, the lab had already burnt down and someone had tried to kill the housekeeper. So he knew that someone was trying to cover something up, and he didn't think it was Marta. Before Blanc reads the tox report, he thinks (as Marta does) that her mixing the medications was what was going to lead to Harlan's death. Despite him cutting his throat, she was responsible for his death. Blanc was letting Marta exercise her wishes in confessing to the family, because up until he sees the perfectly normal bloodwork, there's really no other visible explanation for what's been going on. Blanc is unique among the characters as being someone who (other than drafting her as his Watson) lets Marta speak her mind and make her own decisions. Even friendly paternal Harlan literally slit his own throat rather than let Marta call an ambulance.
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Jan 17, 2020 04:30
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jivjov posted:Before Blanc reads the tox report, he thinks (as Marta does) that her mixing the medications was what was going to lead to Harlan's death. Despite him cutting his throat, she was responsible for his death. Blanc was letting Marta exercise her wishes in confessing to the family, because up until he sees the perfectly normal bloodwork, there's really no other visible explanation for what's been going on. Okay, thanks, that explains part of it. Still, Benoit knew about the lab burning down and the attempted murder of the housekeeper. And despite his folksy demeanor, he's clearly pretty sharp, so there's no way he would have just ignored those things. He also thinks that Marta is a good person, so he should still be on the case, looking for someone else, even before he saw the tox report. I guess he was going to let Marta tell the family about Harlan's death, then figure out the rest of the case afterwards?
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Jan 17, 2020 04:46
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DorianGravy posted:Okay, thanks, that explains part of it. Still, Benoit knew about the lab burning down and the attempted murder of the housekeeper. And despite his folksy demeanor, he's clearly pretty sharp, so there's no way he would have just ignored those things. He also thinks that Marta is a good person, so he should still be on the case, looking for someone else, even before he saw the tox report. I guess he was going to let Marta tell the family about Harlan's death, then figure out the rest of the case afterwards? The way it played to me, up until the reveal that the tox report said "blood was normal, no overdose here", Blanc knew there was something afoot but had no conclusive proof as to what. The whole thing unraveling hinged entirely on Ransom knowing what the tox report mean and Fran NOT knowing what it meant. Until Blanc saw that last piece of data, yeah, I think the best course of action he saw was "let Marta confess to mixing the drugs, and figure out the rest of the foul play later". The key thing to me was that he thought she was making a mistake, that it was a bad idea. But he was willing to let her make that choice.
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Jan 17, 2020 04:57
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DorianGravy posted:Okay, thanks, that explains part of it. Still, Benoit knew about the lab burning down and the attempted murder of the housekeeper. And despite his folksy demeanor, he's clearly pretty sharp, so there's no way he would have just ignored those things. He also thinks that Marta is a good person, so he should still be on the case, looking for someone else, even before he saw the tox report. I guess he was going to let Marta tell the family about Harlan's death, then figure out the rest of the case afterwards? Pretty much. At that point (before he reads the report) he can either respect Marta's wish to tell them the truth or... what? Knock over the head and kidnap her to prevent that? He knows there's more to it than "the nurse hosed up." The missing antidote tells him that even without the fire. So, sure, he'll keep digging if for no other reason than that somebody brought him in to make their plot work. A criminal used him and that's not going to be something he can tolerate.
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Jan 17, 2020 05:02
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not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet but "why did I wait this long to start using morphine, this stuff is loving great" goes down as one of the all-time great movie lines imo
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Jan 17, 2020 10:22
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I'm still confused about Harlan, like he really thought he got a large dose and was feeling the effects like a placebo?
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Jan 17, 2020 14:16
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