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next game is going to have a party system because Vicquemare has got to be some sort of awesome because no way he couldn't handle Harry otherwise and he is deffo in, but at the same time, Kim as reigning Best Partner Ever can't be displaced so we are going to roll with a power trio in Jamrock
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Jan 13, 2020 21:03
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Xanderkish posted:Man, what is it about Kim that makes him such a beloved character? I can't remember the last time I played a game and everyone just universally loved the player's partner, or a party member. he good
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Jan 13, 2020 21:04
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Technically speaking, Kim could also be bisexual, I suppose. But most importantly, he's a bro.Xanderkish posted:Man, what is it about Kim that makes him such a beloved character? I can't remember the last time I played a game and everyone just universally loved the player's partner, or a party member. They put more effort and with a much higher quality of writing into a single companion, than Bioware puts into nine.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:05
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Xanderkish posted:Man, what is it about Kim that makes him such a beloved character? I can't remember the last time I played a game and everyone just universally loved the player's partner, or a party member. It's that first day debrief where you find out he's actually super cool. Perfect endearing moment.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:21
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Megazver posted:They put more effort and with a much higher quality of writing into a single companion, than Bioware puts into nine. Yep, this is pretty much it. Most companions don't go much deeper than "doesn't like slavery, -1 Rep if you're pro-slavery", and they'll have one or two extra lines of dialogue where they can say "How dare you!" before they continue on their quest with you, plus their requisite Loyalty quest. Kim, meanwhile, is right there from the beginning and for the most part doesn't leave. There's no swapping him out for the plucky thief, Kim is experiencing the world with you, and you're experiencing Kim through the world, instead of just a handful of voiced lines when you complete a major quest. Plus the fact that most of your interactions are written means you can explore a lot more subtlety than you could do through a polygonal model made with a subpar character creation tool. Kim can just be Kim, and react to things like Kim, as opposed to, say, a Bioware character, who can only react with one of 10 preset animations and whatever recorded dialogue they thought to record.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:25
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thecluckmeme posted:THERE'S OTHER PARTY MEMBERS?! It's a credit to the game that I didn't feel like I got shafted because that character is loving amazing as a partner for the island. You can even enroll him in the RCM Junior Officer program at the end of the game and convince him to stop saying slurs. Zero VGS posted:To add to my last post, It seems apparent to me that Kim isn't super open about it because homophobia exists in this world (see: Cuno, Measurehead) and he has possibly faced job discrimination over it. Sending him to Harry's case might have been a way for his department to "punish" and sequester him, much like his previous hated undercover assignment. Think about it, his precinct sent him to "go play pinball with little boys" to get him away from them. I've faced job discrimination for being gay and that's the kind of subtle thing you do if you're a bigot boss, send Kim to play with young boys because he's effeminate (and the game's equivalent of Asian, which probably helped him pass as a kid, so that's half discriminatory and half practical) and not necessarily on merit It's interesting. People have talked about Kim's politics but during the first day debrief, he says he was a Moralist in his twenties but has given up on that idealism. But in spite of that, and in spite of how he's treated, the corruption in the RCM and everything else the one thing he still believes in is his job. How anyone wants to interpret that is up to them: he's a tragic figure because he still tries to do his job in spite of the mounting evidence that the RCM is limited both by its corporate masters and the corruption in the institution, or he's heroic because he tries to live up to the ideals of his job and institution despite the abuse he takes, or anything in between. Or maybe he has something to do with the RCM and the revolution the game hints at, but that's pure speculation and isn't supported directly by the text of the game. Kim: he's good. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 13, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 21:45
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dead gay comedy forums posted:next game is going to have a party system because Vicquemare has got to be some sort of awesome because no way he couldn't handle Harry otherwise and he is deffo in, but at the same time, Kim as reigning Best Partner Ever can't be displaced so we are going to roll with a power trio in Jamrock I'm here for this. Vicquemare as the embattled caretaker who isn't surprised by anything Harry does, and Kim as Kim.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:49
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Finally playing through a second time and I think going Shivers or Esprit De Corps is a good choice. First time round I had Shivers giving me little Revachol vignettes, now with Esprit I get cop vignettes, which could be a DLC/game in of itself. Still, I hope they're adventurous and really branch out and do something new with a sequel.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:52
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Xanderkish posted:Man, what is it about Kim that makes him such a beloved character? I can't remember the last time I played a game and everyone just universally loved the player's partner, or a party member. Kim is just a loving awesome person, in a humble, understated, yet unfailing sort of way. He never cuts giant robots in half or blows up any alien motherships but he is always, always being his best self. Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 13, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 22:12
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While the boring person in me wants to continue playing as Harry because his existence is hilarious, anything this company does is going to be awesome and I want it all. Bring on the Jamrock Shuffle!
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Jan 13, 2020 22:24
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Kim is basically the ideal cop. He is the guy you wish cops were like because if they were, the world would be a much better place. Conscientious, aware of his own power and what it represents, generally trying to help people and keep the peace with a minimum of force, and willing to step into the line of fire if need be. Sadly no system that requires a moral exemplar to be its standard member will ever work out, and so we are left with militarized police and craziness instead.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:10
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dead gay comedy forums posted:power trio The pigs, the last commie and the plasmid
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Jan 13, 2020 23:28
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Night10194 posted:You'll also note If you haven't had a lovely relationship, Kim is downright eager to transfer stations, which might further support that he had some issues back at his precinct. So about that inter precinct pissing contest. I guess a cop from the the 41st and one from the 57th went out and two cops from the 41st came back.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:41
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Dreylad posted:Finally playing through a second time and I think going Shivers or Esprit De Corps is a good choice. First time round I had Shivers giving me little Revachol vignettes, now with Esprit I get cop vignettes, which could be a DLC/game in of itself. The Esprit De Corps scene that happens after you report you lost your badge is actually pretty drat good.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:43
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Something I really like about the RCM is that someone sat down and said "okay, but how can we actually make the cops the good guys?"
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Jan 13, 2020 23:47
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I think one thing that makes Kim endearing is that they could have just written him as a plain old fun police straight man, but rather than just rolling his eyes at Harry's antics all the time, pretty often he's going "alright, let's see where this goes". That and the fact that he clearly has his own indulgences like his love for cars just makes him come off as more of a person. Like as a counter-example you can look at a lot of the human party members from the Mass Effect series and basically their entire personalities boil down to "is professional". Kim, meanwhile, is professional, but that is not his only thing.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:52
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It's been fun watching various industry writers tweet about how much Disco Elysium is blowing their minds.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:55
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I kind of want a poll of how many people remove The Expression, and/or shave
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Jan 14, 2020 00:00
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The RCM is almost anti-police since, according to explanations given in the game, it is a volunteer force organized by citizens in spite of the occupying Coalition government, thus being deemed legitimate by society instead of being a function of the state's might. With the law in Revachol being a clusterfuck, the RCM is odd in the sense that they are answering to the institutional failure of the State in matters of public peace, which is something that, in our world, we tend to call "criminal organizations" or "dangerous anti-government groups". Like, the writers were evil geniuses here. They took one of the easiest and most agreeable concepts in general leftist thinking, ACAB, and put a "now wait a second here, what if...", goddamn bastards
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Jan 14, 2020 00:02
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https://twitter.com/desushoard/status/1213972314804686848
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Jan 14, 2020 00:02
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Tylana posted:I kind of want a poll of how many people remove The Expression, and/or shave I did both. Next playthrough I'm going to be a druggie psychic apocalyptic rear end in a top hat and do neither
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Jan 14, 2020 00:03
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I think one thing that makes Kim endearing is that they could have just written him as a plain old fun police straight man, but rather than just rolling his eyes at Harry's antics all the time, pretty often he's going "alright, let's see where this goes". That and the fact that he clearly has his own indulgences like his love for cars just makes him come off as more of a person. Like as a counter-example you can look at a lot of the human party members from the Mass Effect series and basically their entire personalities boil down to "is professional". Kim, meanwhile, is professional, but that is not his only thing. One aspect with Kim that I like was when I would do something that was entirely Not Good For Me, but because the last time I didn't do something weird I blacked out, he just lets me follow that train of thought so I dont die. "Should we let him stare off into the horizon for ten minutes straight mid-conversation?" "If we interrupt him he might die of brain damage"
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Jan 14, 2020 00:07
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Featuring Johnny Depp as Kim.
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Jan 14, 2020 00:09
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Megazver posted:It's been fun watching various industry writers tweet about how much Disco Elysium is blowing their minds. It's unlikely to happen, but I hope it inspires Obsidian to get a lot more daring with their writing and game design. dead gay comedy forums posted:The RCM is almost anti-police since, according to explanations given in the game, it is a volunteer force organized by citizens in spite of the occupying Coalition government, thus being deemed legitimate by society instead of being a function of the state's might. With the law in Revachol being a clusterfuck, the RCM is odd in the sense that they are answering to the institutional failure of the State in matters of public peace, which is something that, in our world, we tend to call "criminal organizations" or "dangerous anti-government groups". Well the RCM is either a volunteer force that exists because the ruling coalition never laid down any law enforcement or it came into existence and serves at the whims of the provisional council because they guarantee its legitimacy. Kim provides both interpretations and lets you choose what's correct. There are laws on the books that invest the RCM with their authority, as limited as it is. What the RCM lacks is financial backing: they aren't funded enough to ensure the lockstep loyalty of the cops that exist, as many of them are basically allowed to accept petty bribes as part of their job. The very idea of cops striking is laughable to pretty much everyone you meet. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 00:38
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Dreylad posted:Well the RCM is either a volunteer force that exists because the ruling coalition never laid down any law enforcement or it came into existence and serves at the whims of the provisional council because they guarantee its legitimacy IMHO, they are both. Joyce explicitly states that the RCM is tolerated by the coalition because, ultimately, it made them look like jackasses when a barely-funded volunteer force - with all their problems - actually managed to enact some sort of public peace. Of course, the occupying government benefits and "allows" it to exist, but given their resources, they have no interest in helping it at all, which, like you say, makes petty corruption very prevalent. At the same time, they are outside the occupier's law, which is perhaps the strongest evidence of the popular legitimacy of the Militia. Esprit-de-corps demonstrates a few scenes where officers are dealing with the people and in a particular one, Pryce, the precinct captain of Jamrock and your direct superior, gets saluted by a kid when the skill answers your question of "did we do some good here?". The "legal twilight" that Joyce and Kim refers to is pretty much the pain in the rear end and the excuse of the RCM. If the RCM was wholly invested in enforcing coalition laws, they would fail as they would be simply another arm of the invader and the most direct face of the oppressor. If the RCM was entirely an organized, volunteer force of public peace in spite of the coalition, they would be treated and dealt with like the Irish Republican Army, the Basque militias, Zapatista volunteer guards and such.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:41
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dead gay comedy forums posted:The RCM is almost anti-police since, according to explanations given in the game, it is a volunteer force organized by citizens in spite of the occupying Coalition government, thus being deemed legitimate by society instead of being a function of the state's might. With the law in Revachol being a clusterfuck, the RCM is odd in the sense that they are answering to the institutional failure of the State in matters of public peace, which is something that, in our world, we tend to call "criminal organizations" or "dangerous anti-government groups". Dreylad posted:Well the RCM is either a volunteer force that exists because the ruling coalition never laid down any law enforcement or it came into existence and serves at the whims of the provisional council because they guarantee its legitimacy. Kim provides both interpretations and lets you choose what's correct. There are laws on the books that invest the RCM with their authority, as limited as it is. What the RCM lacks is financial backing: they aren't funded enough to ensure the lockstep loyalty of the cops that exist, as many of them are basically allowed to accept petty bribes as part of their job. The very idea of cops striking is laughable to pretty much everyone you meet. It gets even better when you consider the Hardie Boys place in all of this, as something of de facto police for the areas controlled by the Union. The Union represents most of the citizenry of that particular area of Revachol, and thus the Hardies are almost as legitimate--if not moreso since they are locally controlled--than the RCM. In leftist speak, they're an alternative institution to the RCM which is controlled by global capital (if indirectly) and allow the citizens of that area to take a more direct hand in their policing. If for some reason the RCM ceased to be, or--as in the game--the community stops interacting with the RCM, there is still an institution to provide general safety, dispute resolution, and aid to the people of that community. So yeah, not only did they spin the state enforcers of capital on its head, they also spun that on its head.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:41
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Oh god I just did the lieutenant love quest and turned Garte into an incel 
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Jan 14, 2020 04:50
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Fister Roboto posted:Oh god I just did the lieutenant love quest and turned Garte into an incel
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Jan 14, 2020 04:59
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Xanderkish posted:Man, what is it about Kim that makes him such a beloved character? I can't remember the last time I played a game and everyone just universally loved the player's partner, or a party member. Yeah, where to even begin with Kim's off-the-charts likability. The first thing I noticed was how well he counter-balanced both Harry's weirdness and the player's newness to the setting. He has great patience but still pushes you towards the mystery. He has a dry sense of humor that comes out at opportune moments. He's damned interesting because he's also interested in things, even when he pretends he's not. He has highly rewarding surprises underneath his layers. Kim is a genre-defining character, no doubt. He is as revolutionary to RPGs as Harry's talking skills.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:08
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Xanderkish posted:Man, what is it about Kim that makes him such a beloved character? I can't remember the last time I played a game and everyone just universally loved the player's partner, or a party member. Kim really clicked for me when I came clean to him about the amnesia, late on the first day. I had been playing it cool and trying to hide it but spilled the beans when I was talking to Lena with Kim there, and then followed up with just him a little after. He was totally cool about it and I realized I could trust and confide in him. From that moment, we were bros. 
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Jan 14, 2020 05:15
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Fister Roboto posted:Oh god I just did the lieutenant love quest and turned Garte into an incel huh i guess i missed this quest entirely
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Jan 14, 2020 05:20
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In general every character you interact with in DE is written as if they were a full person in their own right, you just see the most detail on Kim since you're with him the entire game.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:23
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Caufman posted:He is as revolutionary to RPGs as Harry's talking skills. I definitely think this is true, and I think it's in part because he's the only party character you have, most of the time. You can't swap him out with someone else, so he's a character who is written to be highly reactive to your character, and who makes his presence known in most every conversation or interaction you have. He's as much a part of the story as Harry. Contrast that with a lot of RPG's where you have a bunch of different party members, but having so many means the writing is spread thin, and they have to be written in a way that they can be replaced with other characters, which creates dialogue that feels more modular and less organic. I'm also reminded of Morte from Planescape: Torment. He also serve sa similar role in that he was the base of knowledge for an Amnesiac. He also was the foil to the other character, being the rather dour Nameless One. The first part of the game you spend with him has Morte responding to most every single action you do and take, but as the game progresses and more characters are (or could be) added to your party, he starts to fade into the background a bit.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:25
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Accordion Man posted:Should have just told Empathy that its idea sounds really misogynistic and dropped it. Empathy lied to me and said the quest would be good!!!
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Jan 14, 2020 05:25
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Also, Kim is literally a saint. You think that's just a circle behind his head?
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Jan 14, 2020 05:50
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JARATE CURES SPIES posted:Heads up to anyone not in the official Discord: one of the devs mentioned working on a trailer and having a content update currently in QA. I wonder if this has anything to do with them also mentioning they might update the art book? Either way, I just want anything and everything DE. A content update would be rad, but I'm hoping they can fix the bug where my alcohol and cigarettes don't leave my hands when I unequip them like vivid ghosts of my addiction.
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Jan 14, 2020 06:39
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Fister Roboto posted:Empathy lied to me and said the quest would be good!!! Empathy is secretly one of the dumbest skills, for sure. Up there with Electrochemistry and Half Light in giving bad advice.
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Jan 14, 2020 06:55
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Xanderkish posted:Man, what is it about Kim that makes him such a beloved character? I can't remember the last time I played a game and everyone just universally loved the player's partner, or a party member. I think a lot of it is the fact that you're such a loving trainwreck of a human being that Kim gets really get a chance to shine. He sees you on what seems to be the worst day of your life and he's kind and supportive and competent enough to carry you through the events of the day, and at the end of it all he tells you that you did well even though he watched you throw up five times after digging your belongings out of the trash. You need Kim in a way that Shepard has never needed Garrus because you're not an omni-competent badass who needs a cheering section. You're a broken man who desperately needs a friend.
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Jan 14, 2020 06:58
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One of the other things that makes the RCM sympathetic is they're simply outgunned. They can't resort to constant coercive violence the way militarized American police can and have to negotiate their way through most things because plenty of criminals have semiautomatics and they're stuck with loving muzzle loaders and pepperboxes.
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Jan 14, 2020 07:09
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Yeah I can imagine society would be a little different if cops had to ramrod their guns every time they take a shot.
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Jan 14, 2020 07:42
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