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lightrook posted:The impression I got from the RotS novelization was that Palpatine himself was the reason for their loss of clarity, since he's such a great and terrible existential evil that the laws of the Force and the universe kind of recoil in horror, like the Star Wars equivalent of the Shadow in the Warp. Palpatine started exerting his influence at the start of the Prequel Trilogy, to keep the Jedi in the dark about his true intentions, but I guess it was a lot of work for him, since he stopped doing it during the OT once the Jedi were all wiped out and there was no further need for it. All evil needs is for good men to do nothing, etc.
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Jan 14, 2020 01:16
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lightrook posted:The impression I got from the RotS novelization Found where you went wrong.
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Jan 14, 2020 01:19
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The RotS novel is pretty interesting but it's basically an entire reimagining and rewrite of the story from dialogue to characterization and motivations.
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Jan 14, 2020 01:29
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palpatine being high enough level to cast Mass Confusion on the jedi sounds a lot less interesting than the jedi being myopic idiots who've fully bought into their own hype of being infallible do-gooders
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Jan 14, 2020 01:33
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Brave to use A Wizard Did It in a space setting! Visionary, even.
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Jan 14, 2020 01:38
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The Rise of Skywalker corroborates the less interesting interpretation in multiple respects, however - not just because he's definitely high enough level to do that, but also because he is depicted as having the ability to send visions. When Disney bought the Star Wars license in order to continue it, I suppose it was inevitable that they'd recreate the Expanded Universe.
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Jan 14, 2020 01:39
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Horizon Burning posted:The RotS novel is pretty interesting but it's basically an entire reimagining and rewrite of the story from dialogue to characterization and motivations. Is it actually good? Not that I want to read it, I'm just curious. Can't imagine the RotS film working as a novel.
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Jan 14, 2020 01:44
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The rots novelisation literalises a bunch of metaphors, but it's less offensively bad at it than most of the EU so I don't hate it
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Jan 14, 2020 01:44
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Taear posted:Is it actually good? Not that I want to read it, I'm just curious. For what it is, it's pretty good. Probably the best work in the old (and new) EUs. They cut a fair amount from the movie for the novel (I think the whole of Kashyyk?) and every single line of dialogue is different. I feel like the novel is closer to what the fans were hoping for and expecting. Anakin and Obi-Wan are swashbuckling best friends, Anakin is a cool hero but secretly insecure, Palpatine is such a powerful Sith that he blocks Jedi prescience, the fault of the Jedi is that they didn't act sooner, Yoda laments he should've listened to Qui-Gon, and so on. Like ungulateman says, it takes some of the metaphors and makes them literal. There's a bit where Yoda realizes he can't win against Sidious because he lost the war before he was ever born. In the films, this is basically the corruption of the Republic. In the novel, it's because Palpatine is a new type of Sith who has been planning to win the war against the Jedi for millennia.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:27
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The book says Palpatine is thousands of years old?
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Jan 14, 2020 02:36
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No, but that he's just the latest in a long line of 'new' Sith who've been playing a very long game to catch the Jedi in a trap and destroy them.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:38
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Bongo Bill posted:Right. What it comes down to is that people want the scenes to be something else. Which means wanting the characters to be different characters, or, more generally, wanting the movies not to have been what they are. Although words like "execution" are thrown around, the disapproval that so many people have for them is fundamentally conceptual. I wanted the scenes to be something else because they were bad, and I don't like bad scenes in movies. I also wanted the characters to be different because these were badly written characters, and I don't enjoy movies populated with badly written characters. If the concept for the prequels was for them to be a sequence of bad scenes populated by bad characters then yes, my disapproval is conceptual.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:40
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Can you specify one scene that you think is bad.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:55
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Taear posted:Is it actually good? Not that I want to read it, I'm just curious. I personally enjoyed it a lot and have reread it more than a few times, but I'm hearing for the first time that this is apparently a wrong opinion, so hopefully someone here can help me out of the Bad Opinion Zone. One of the things I liked the most was how it described using the Force. If your main exposure to Star Wars comes from the movies and games, as it is for most people, then it's easy to think in terms of the Force in fantasy RPG terms, with learning the Force as some kind of rational, systematic science, and Force powers falling into discreet and concrete abilities like Force Push and Force Choke and Force Lightning. On the other hand, the novelization does a good job realizing the Force as not just a magic but a lifestyle, as it should be for a monastic order that follows a practice that both Han and that one officer who gets choked in ANH describe as a religion. When Dooku squares off against the boys, his mastery of dark arts isn't just him throwing tables and jumping across the room, it's him drawing the Force into his person to fill his body with strength. Moreover, it illustrates the difference between Sith and Jedi practices: Dooku preparing for combat visualizes the universe falling away leaving nothing left but himself, while Obi-Wan, ever the Jedi paragon, visualizes himself fading away until he and the universe are one and the same. There's a clear dichotomy between Sith egoism and Jedi non-self, and it's very Buddhist and very appropriate considering the strong wuxia influences in Star Wars. Other things that have been mentioned is fleshing out the friendship between Anakin and Kenobi, which puts more weight behind Kenobi telling Anakin he was "like a brother" to him. Also, for reasons I can't fully explain, Kenobi's brief but touching partnership with the giant riding lizard during the final showdown with Grievous really just gets to me. As for the "new Sith" line, I understood that it meant that Yoda realized that the Sith have been growing and changing and adapting, while the Jedi remained stagnant and inflexible. The corruption of the Republic and the corruption of the Jedi Order were two parts of the same whole, considering how the Jedi Order tied itself to the Republic, and the implication is that the Jedi had lost sight of what it meant to be Jedi, while the Sith were perfectly aware of what it meant to be a Sith.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Can you specify one scene that you think is bad. The one where Anakin is having a bad dream but the framing makes it look like he's masturbating
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Jan 14, 2020 02:59
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Tarnop posted:The one where Anakin is having a bad dream but the framing makes it look like he's masturbating You just turned it into a good scene
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Jan 14, 2020 03:02
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RBA Starblade posted:You just turned it into a good scene It would be a good scene if the film then went on to address or give further consideration to Anakin's sexual arousal at the thought of his mother being tortured
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Jan 14, 2020 03:06
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Tarnop posted:The one where Anakin is having a bad dream but the framing makes it look like he's masturbating Do you think he does it with the robot hand?
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Jan 14, 2020 03:13
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Ok so, just to be clear, the films produce from you a continual yelp like having touched a hot stove, and your first solution is: hands over the covers for male character.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Ok so, just to be clear, the films produce from you a continual yelp like having touched a hot stove SuperMechagodzilla posted:and your first solution is: hands over the covers for male character. You didn't ask for solutions, you asked for an example of a bad scene.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:24
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Tarnop posted:You didn't ask for solutions, you asked for an example of a bad scene. Everyone knows that the Anakin character has a bunch of psychosexual hangups from being separated from his mother at an early age. It's why the character goes for the older Padme & ultimately becomes a fascist. The films are really clear and obvious about it. So far, you have communicated some rudimentary awareness of this - but have mainly just repeated "it's bad" as if traumatized. It's gauche.
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Jan 14, 2020 04:06
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"It's treason, then." Is another perfectly killer line.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:01
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I don't like the scene where baby Anakin has to clarify that the angels hes talking about are some aliens on some planet somewhere. The writer is too transparent there. An underappreciated scene in the same movie is when the podracer gets fixed and the music swells and Anakin is happily woohooing. The sequence is nicely directed.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:06
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TMBG already taught us angels' got a space program.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:13
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Detective No. 27 posted:"It's treason, then." Is another perfectly killer line. This led me to watch the Sidious/Yoda fight to see if there were any good lines in it, which there weren't really, but I liked how Yoda's speech pattern was dialed up to 11, making him sound like an idiot with lines like "not if anything to say about it I have". I wonder if it was meant to imply he'd been driven a bit mad by the whole ordeal, or if it was just poking fun at him for being a frail old dude trying to be a hero
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Jan 14, 2020 06:00
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attack of the clones is an unwatchable piece of poo poo the phantom menace is good tho
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Jan 14, 2020 06:01
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Detective No. 27 posted:"It's treason, then." Is another perfectly killer line. Just loving imagine how incredibly satisfying that whole sequence must have been for Palpatine, in-universe.
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Jan 14, 2020 06:03
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2house2fly posted:This led me to watch the Sidious/Yoda fight to see if there were any good lines in it, which there weren't really, but I liked how Yoda's speech pattern was dialed up to 11, making him sound like an idiot with lines like "not if anything to say about it I have". I wonder if it was meant to imply he'd been driven a bit mad by the whole ordeal, or if it was just poking fun at him for being a frail old dude trying to be a hero “My little green friend”
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Jan 14, 2020 06:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Everyone knows that the Anakin character has a bunch of psychosexual hangups from being separated from his mother at an early age. It's why the character goes for the older Padme & ultimately becomes a fascist. The films are really clear and obvious about it. Parts of the text support the reading that Anakin is masturbating while dreaming of his mother's torture, yes. Do you think that was what the scene was intended to convey? Do you think it's a good scene? If so, why? I didn't realise that giving an example of a bad scene in response to a request for the same was considered gauche. Are there any other important rules of etiquette for this thread?
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Jan 14, 2020 06:44
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I AM the senate!
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Jan 14, 2020 07:05
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https://youtu.be/SxMrEh8-_-E guys he breathes hard he must be jerkin it
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Jan 14, 2020 07:28
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YaketySass posted:Do you think he does it with the robot hand? I can only hope that this will be explored in a future Star Wars Story. Maybe he can turn off the nerve relays or whatever so it feels like Padme is doing it.
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Jan 14, 2020 07:51
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lightrook posted:I personally enjoyed it a lot and have reread it more than a few times, but I'm hearing for the first time that this is apparently a wrong opinion, so hopefully someone here can help me out of the Bad Opinion Zone. It's not bad to like it but it's a very different story that therefore adds nothing to the film.
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Jan 14, 2020 11:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Everyone knows that the Anakin character has a bunch of psychosexual hangups from being separated from his mother at an early age. It's why the character goes for the older Padme & ultimately becomes a fascist. The films are really clear and obvious about it. Edd Ipus is a p Lucas rear end name
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Jan 14, 2020 14:47
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Elfgames posted:https://youtu.be/SxMrEh8-_-E guys he breathes hard he must be jerkin it Just watched it without sound and it does actually look like he's jerkin it. His hand is even moving in a suspicious way.
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Jan 14, 2020 15:55
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Yeah. All they had to do was put his hands on top of the sheets. Or something. It's hard to believe not one person in the editing staff noticed that anakin was jerkin it. It would have been the easiest scene to reshoot.
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Jan 14, 2020 16:01
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The whole fall of the Republic might have been avoided if the rest of the Jedi would have jerked it once in a while.
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Jan 14, 2020 16:02
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Actually between Luke wanting to bang his sister and now Anakin popping off to his mom it's looking to me like Lucas was going for something
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Jan 14, 2020 16:16
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RBA Starblade posted:Actually between Luke wanting to bang his sister and now Anakin popping off to his mom it's looking to me like Lucas was going for something Look up how when developing Raiders of the Lost Ark he originally wanted Jones/Marion to have like a ~ten year age difference between them so that the "I was a child! I was in love!" line was to literally mean that she was like 10 while he was 21 and he wanted that because it "makes it more interesting."
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Jan 14, 2020 16:21
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turning indiana into a pedo is a lot more interesting. he is already a loving prick so it won't change much
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Jan 14, 2020 16:35
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