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I don't honestly remember what I thought several months ago and obviously it has changed as more details have emerged. I will say there was a time when I was willing to listen to the vernacular explanation (lovely American businessman speak, asking for a favor is just business). Now I'm really hoping to see some motion in these public surveys. Nixon abused his powers domestically to screw with the election. Clinton lied under oath about an embarrassing private matter. Trump has (apparently) conducted an ongoing, excessive program of disrupting the workings and image and standing of the country, directed actual extortion (which was successfully carried out) and continued to do so publicly despite stopgap measures repeatedly sounding alarms. He did these things for personal gain and power at the expense of the country. That's just based on what we know. How can only 8% of Republicans support removal? Does it just take that long for the facts to leak in? Do they fail to understand that their president is aiding corruption in a foreign country by being corrupt at home? Does he have to literally order the murder of Democrat Representatives and Presidential candidates? Capone was convicted of tax evasion. (Oh which apparently we have here too I forgot)
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Jan 17, 2020 00:58
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:I don't honestly remember what I thought several months ago and obviously it has changed as more details have emerged. I will say there was a time when I was willing to listen to the vernacular explanation (lovely American businessman speak, asking for a favor is just business). Now I'm really hoping to see some motion in these public surveys. "My team über alles" Also the bolder part would get them even more enthusiastic votes in the brain dead section of their base. They're proto-fascists, OP
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Jan 17, 2020 01:04
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Thanks for letting me vent at least.  At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if the potus gave them the missiles to attack the air base in retaliation and coordinated with them for the air strike and response. But I'm continually surprised by some of the elected and electorate.
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Jan 17, 2020 01:12
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah. doesnt surprise me. collins is loving ghoul but she is smart enough to read the writing on the wall. trump will probably get acquitted but i feel like it might like 7 votes off instead of 20 or so. I'd be shocked if the vote count goes over 50 in favor. Trump and Mitch will do everything they can to keep it under 51. Even though 51 votes vs 49 does not make any legal differences, I think any number 51 and up will be politically extremely damaging.
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Jan 17, 2020 01:19
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Thanks for letting me vent at least. I don't know if it helps, but you're not really dealing with half the country of psychotic trump lovers. What you're dealing with is an enormous pile of uniformed people who are politically identified solely because they're politically identified. "I'm voting republican because my family has always been republican" -- that kind of thing. FOX has tapped into identity politics in such a way that's unprecedented and not currently being fought against, so Trump supporters largely support him because they view attacks on him as attacks on them (as by design by FOX). The vast majority of people don't know anything about the president's crimes, nor do they particularly want to. Apathy isn't exactly a stellar personality trait, and it's ... not helpful to making a good or sustainable life for anyone in the world, but maybe it feels a little better than them being unrepentant cultists? To be fair, there are some actual cultists, too. But that's a very small minority.
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Jan 17, 2020 01:21
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Ershalim posted:I don't know if it helps, but you're not really dealing with half the country of psychotic trump lovers. What you're dealing with is an enormous pile of uniformed people who are politically identified solely because they're politically identified. "I'm voting republican because my family has always been republican" -- that kind of thing. FOX has tapped into identity politics in such a way that's unprecedented and not currently being fought against, so Trump supporters largely support him because they view attacks on him as attacks on them (as by design by FOX). Yeah only 60% of the population votes, less than half of those voted for Trump and probably only half of that number are the evil cult members. 15-20% of the country being completely unredeemable is kind of depressing but it's not as bad as it appears at first glance
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Jan 17, 2020 01:34
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:I don't honestly remember what I thought several months ago and obviously it has changed as more details have emerged. I will say there was a time when I was willing to listen to the vernacular explanation (lovely American businessman speak, asking for a favor is just business). Now I'm really hoping to see some motion in these public surveys. Something people probably have to start coming to grips with is most Republicans and right wing people aren't being exploited or taken advantage of in the way you think. They haven't been hacked in a sense that you can logic them out of their position and they can magically come to their senses. You cannot restore "sanity" to them because they haven't lost their minds, it's just that their worldview is drastically different than yours. They have a fundamentally different set of values. Trump could probably literally order the murder of a Democrat Representative and Presidential candidate and Republicans would be fine with it. Trump is what they want and he is how they act when they think you're not looking or when they can get away with it, and they believe it is their fundamental right because you are beneath them.
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Jan 17, 2020 01:39
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eke out posted:Just quoting this to note that it is literally right-wing propaganda I heard it from Jimmy Dore. I thought he had a pretty left perspective but maybe he fell for it too. Its mentioned in this bloomberg article. "Shokin has denied any accusations of wrongdoing and declined to provide immediate comment for this article. In an interview with the Ukrainian website Strana.ua published on May 6, Shokin said he believes he was fired because of his Burisma investigation, which he said had been active at the time." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/timeline-in-ukraine-probe-casts-doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim actuallysanta fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 01:55
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So, they took oaths today correct? When does the trial start? Next week?
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Jan 17, 2020 01:59
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actuallysanta posted:I heard it from Jimmy Dore. I thought he had a pretty left perspective but maybe he fell for it too. i see this is a new account and i don't really get your gimmick, but you need to stop posting disproven lies from known bad actors here maybe check out wikipedia and read what has happened re: ukraine since that piece you quoted from May of 2019 eke out fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 02:02
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actuallysanta posted:I heard it from Jimmy Dore. I thought he had a pretty left perspective but maybe he fell for it too. Jimmy Dore is pretty left but he's also a reactionary who (i think) is still a 9/11 Truther.
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Jan 17, 2020 02:07
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Strange Poon posted:Jimmy Dore is pretty left but he's also a reactionary who (i think) is still a 9/11 Truther. seriously? i mean i knew dore was a mixed bag at best but i didnt know he was that nuts.
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Jan 17, 2020 02:10
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Also May 6 was well into their campaign to make the Biden story happen, so it's not surprising Shokin is trying to push that particular line.
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Jan 17, 2020 02:11
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Dapper_Swindler posted:seriously? i mean i knew dore was a mixed bag at best but i didnt know he was that nuts. Perhaps relying on comedians as a primary news source is a bad idea.
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Jan 17, 2020 02:12
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eke out posted:i see this is a new account and i don't really get your gimmick, but you need to stop posting disproven lies from known bad actors here There's no gimmick buddy, why don't you tell me about the article you are referencing that shows the opposite of this bloomberg one? Im happy to learn. As someone newer here I'd rather be educated than just told to stop posting. Teach me. Dore does tend to say a lot of stuff that I don't know is just "grr two sides are the same" anger or if he actually has facts to back them up. He is very "clinton is corrupt" too. edit: ugh. I had no idea about the 9/11 stuff he said. That is loving disgusting. Totally turns me off from watching his podcast anymore. actuallysanta fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 02:13
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actuallysanta posted:There's no gimmick buddy, why don't you tell me about the article you are referencing that shows the opposite of this bloomberg one? Perhaps you could check out this article: quote:Shokin became prosecutor general in February 2015. Over the next year, the U.S. and the International Monetary Fund criticized officials for not doing enough to fight corruption in Ukraine.
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Jan 17, 2020 02:15
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actuallysanta posted:As someone newer here I'd rather be educated than just told to stop posting. Teach me. As someone who's account is older than one of their adult children, "lurk more" is an under utilized phrase in D&D the past few years.
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Jan 17, 2020 03:02
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actuallysanta posted:There's no gimmick buddy, why don't you tell me about the article you are referencing that shows the opposite of this bloomberg one? This references it here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...t-a9147001.html quote:The approach of Shokin’s office to the Burisma investigations fell into a well-practiced pattern of corruption, the anonymous prosecutor says. By the time of Biden’s intervention, there were no active investigations to speak of. As does this timeline from Just Security about the history of the Ukraine scandal. https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/ quote:Sept. 24, 2015 – U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt excoriates officials in the Prosecutor General’s Office for stymying anti-corruption investigations, including those involving Burisma
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Jan 17, 2020 03:26
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LeeMajors posted:So, they took oaths today correct? When does the trial start? Next week? Starts on Tuesday. And yes, everyone was sworn in today. All senators and the Chief Justice.
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Jan 17, 2020 03:47
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oxsnard posted:Yeah only 60% of the population votes, less than half of those voted for Trump and probably only half of that number are the evil cult members. 15-20% of the country being completely unredeemable is kind of depressing but it's not as bad as it appears at first glance All of those who voted for Trump are evil cult members. He has a 90%+ approval rating from his own party. Also, the 40% who choose not to stand up against people like Trump are terrible too, so we are at well over half the country being unredeemable shits. It doesn’t matter if you are in California, New York, or Arkansas. Choosing not to bother with things that could hurt you and those around you makes you a bad person.
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Jan 17, 2020 04:15
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The timing of this could really not be better. We just had a week long reminder that Trump is at risk of getting us into a monumentally costly and pointless war for zero reason at a moment's notice.TyrantWD posted:All of those who voted for Trump are evil cult members. He has a 90%+ approval rating from his own party. Also, the 40% who choose not to stand up against people like Trump are terrible too, so we are at well over half the country being unredeemable shits. It doesn’t matter if you are in California, New York, or Arkansas. Choosing not to bother with things that could hurt you and those around you makes you a bad person. It's not, wtf is this. The only person who has ever said it is over 90 is trump himself and he was citing a poll conducted at a conservative conference so it's less than worthless That's without even getting into all the republicans who no longer identify as such because of Trump Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 04:22
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Herstory Begins Now posted:The timing of this could really not be better. We just had a week long reminder that Trump is at risk of getting us into a monumentally costly and pointless war for zero reason at a moment's notice. He was at like 87% when he claimed that, and is still around the 87 mark. Overall Trump’s approval is around 44% - and that is with the shy-Tory effect, which was definitely a thing in his approval polling back in 2016 when he got 46% of the vote with a 38% approval rating. Way more than half of the country are either cultists or enablers. If you are concerned about this presidency and where it is taking the country, you are in the minority.
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Jan 17, 2020 04:55
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TyrantWD posted:He was at like 87% when he claimed that, and is still around the 87 mark. Overall Trump’s approval is around 44% - and that is with the shy-Tory effect, which was definitely a thing in his approval polling back in 2016 when he got 46% of the vote with a 38% approval rating. Trump voters have never been close to a majority and he has only lost supporters since then, but thanks for admitting how comically wrong your previous post was I guess?
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Jan 17, 2020 05:09
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Trump voters have never been close to a majority and he has only lost supporters since then, but thanks for admitting how comically wrong your previous post was I guess? this. he barely won against a lovely canidate. now he is underwater in most swing. i think he can still win obviously but i dont think a trump victory is some massive guarantee. its gonna be alot harder for him now, espcially since he is a know quanity. i dont think the majority of the country likes him. not out of some progressive vigor but i think alot of people dont like him because they think he is just loud dickhead who never shuts up and embarrasses everyone. sure the chuds love it but they arnt the majority.
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Jan 17, 2020 05:13
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 https://twitter.com/funder/status/1217970600595070976
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Jan 17, 2020 08:16
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I have a hard time believing Trump knows anyone that isn't Trump, his family or someone that's been on TV a lot. He probably doesn't even recognize his own personal chef, maids or anyone in the Trump org that isn't loving Matthew Calamari.
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Jan 17, 2020 08:33
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nvm
Lambert fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 12:32
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TyrantWD posted:He was at like 87% when he claimed that, and is still around the 87 mark. Overall Trump’s approval is around 44% - and that is with the shy-Tory effect, which was definitely a thing in his approval polling back in 2016 when he got 46% of the vote with a 38% approval rating. 46% (at best) is now ‘way more than half’. Good math.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:40
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Considering the US doesn't have a "one man, one vote" system, living in the right place is important for your vote to have more weight - doesn't really matter whether its actually a majority of voters when you can govern even with a minority of the votes.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:46
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go to USPOL if you want to argue about just how much approval trump has lol this thread is for funny things, such as: https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1218183268706799616
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Jan 17, 2020 15:52
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It's unbelievable that Dershowitz is still in public life.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:54
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mcmagic posted:It's unbelievable that Dershowitz is still in public life. Really? It’s unbelievable that a smug rear end in a top hat is famous and on TV all the time? Dershowitz is a tradition as American as apple pie or making servers live off of tips.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:24
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mcmagic posted:It's unbelievable that Dershowitz is still in public life. NY Times loves Dershowtiz, and will never let him fade. They had to cut back coverage on him after this absurd flood of stories in a single week.  I expect now that Epstein is dead and Dershowitz is on the Trump defense team, they'll being churning out stories on him again.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:24
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yronic heroism posted:Really? It’s unbelievable that a smug rear end in a top hat is famous and on TV all the time? No that isn't the reason. He was directly implicated as a child rapist....
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Jan 17, 2020 16:26
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mcmagic posted:No that isn't the reason. He was directly implicated as a child rapist....
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Jan 17, 2020 16:30
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mcmagic posted:No that isn't the reason. He was directly implicated as a child rapist.... Which is also super common in public life, and it should be needless to say that’s a bad thing. I guess now that I think about it public life is legit terrible. (E; fb)
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Jan 17, 2020 16:30
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InsertPotPun posted:which, turns out, is a tradition as American as apple pie or making servers live off of tips. Meh, more like a RIGHT of passage
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Jan 17, 2020 16:38
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mcmagic posted:No that isn't the reason. He was directly implicated as a child rapist.... Are you talking about Dershowitz or Epstein now?
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Jan 17, 2020 16:41
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https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1218200555010523137
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Jan 17, 2020 17:04
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Captain Monkey posted:46% (at best) is now ‘way more than half’. Good math. I'm also counting all the non-voters who saw the threat of Trump and an open supreme court seat and decided they were OK with that. The cultists are a problem, but those who sit back and do nothing, are also a problem. It is not like we have a Kasich in office who in public says "aww shucks, why can't we all just get along", and then in private is a conservative ghoul. The threat Trump poses is plain to see, yet states that gave him the win - like Wisconsin, saw their lowest presidential turn out since 2000.
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Jan 17, 2020 17:14
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