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Starmer is (coded as) white, posh and most importantly masculine. That's what they mean by leadership and electability. Corbyn is white and depending on whether your ripping into him for being a millionaire or a schlub he's posh. He comes across very soft spoken so feminine ofc which killed his chances. Clive Lewis is not white or posh. Guess why the ladies aren't electable...
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Jan 17, 2020 13:10
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Order of things they care about for what is electable - Rich Posh White Male That's the hierarchy. If you're the three below, you can get away without being personally rich, but you need to make sure nobody actually rich might notice.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:18
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Sloth Life posted:Guess why the ladies aren't electable...
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Jan 17, 2020 13:19
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:So, having done a fair bit of door-knocking myself, the number of voters who can name a member of the shad cab is a tiny fraction. The number that could name one that isn't McDonnell or Abbott is a vanishing fraction of that. The idea that there exists out there a statistically significant portion of the electorate that a) know who Starmer is and b) like him well enough that him being in charge would flip their vote stretches credulity past breaking point. I think what people are talking about with Starmer is that if you showed an uninformed voter a photo of him, RLB and Jessflips, they'd say Starmer by a country mile. RLB is trying to connect with informed voters (who tend to be the ones who vote in things like party leadership elections), Phillips is trying to do the publicity circuit and get her name out there associated with her ey-oop shtick, but I think a lot of Starmer's appeal is coming from Guardian readers glancing at a photo of him and thinking he seems nice (because they don't want to risk actually reading anything about Labour incase they catch antisemitism). Some of the centrists and FBPEs will know his name because of his association with remain, but red wall voters (who are angry about labour issues but generally don't pay attention to politics) won't know who he is, just that he looks ministerial. I think a ton of it comes down to looks.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:35
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If we're just going by looks then Lisa Nandy looks more ministerial than Starmer, who looks like he's being permanently haunted by a low effort apparition that's not getting overtime. But unfortunately she's Lisa Nandy, which shows the limitations of that method.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:43
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Borrovan posted:Because of the division and infighting, and handing the press a stick to beat Momentum with (notice how they've pretty much ignored whatever the Government does since the GE, because omg there's leftist infighting going on). Well, now they can beat us with "Momentum is undemocratic STALIN STALIN STALIN." I don't think the "don't give them ammunition" argument really holds because the press have proven perfectly capable of fabricating their own, out thin loving air if need be. I don't know what the actual solution to these people is but it's going to be drastic. Borrovan posted:It's not a coronation, because all Momentum can do is politely ask its members to vote for their candidate - cf the actual election, which gives actual power, which is where the legitimacy comes from. That being so, I just don't see the advantage. I meant, coronation as a candidate, for clarity. There's legitimacy as leader, legitimacy as the candidate of the left, legitimacy as Corbyn's anointed successor... lots of little legitimacies that all play off of and feed into one another. And these things aren't binaries, either, they're gradients. The thing I find fascinating about politics, and social structures in general, is the... supervitreous nature of it all. The whole thing is constructed entirely out of thought and convention, things that seem like they should be as substantial as cobwebs, but can often appear, and often actually prove to be, impossibly durable- until something happens that upends it all, and suddenly not only is the reality of everything put into question, but also all the measures by which that reality should be judged are uncertain. And even when the system is static and stable, there's no hard boundary between it and its periphery; it all exists in the realm of human psychology and human networks, and so everything is permeable and inter-penetrating. I think this is probably why I don't hate the ronyaposting as much as the rest of the thread seems to: he's always approaching politics as inescapably contingent, existing as the product of specific processes occurring in specific moments. My concern is that the more compromised RLB's candidacy appears, the more excuses people have not to fall in behind her, and the polling is telling us this selection is a coinflip.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:48
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Seperate issue - who do I contact about getting on the star wars episode of the podcast? So far I've not really pursued it because I haven't really felt knowledgeable enough to contribute, but this is very much in my wheelhouse and frankly if I don't do it for this episode I will probably never muster the will.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:50
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Darth Walrus posted:You're talking about electoral appeal as if pure electoralism is a useful or even viable approach for Labour as things stand. The fundamental problem we saw is a loss of faith that parties and governments can help people, coupled with the press making it clear that their goals are nakedly partisan. 'Which candidate looks electable' is the wrong question. The main objective should be to help people outside government and convince them that elections can be useful in the first place. You don’t need to believe in pure electoralism to understand that if you are going to include that in the list of things you are doing, it will work better if you do it well. A Johnson administration unrestrained by electoral pressure would be quite capable of destroying tenfold anything built by community-level activism.. ’community center and ballot box’ needs the second half just as much as the armalite did.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:59
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The big problem I see with Starmer being leader and allowing the right back in is that the ex-industrial places that flipped Tory hate Blair just as much as they hated coalition austerity. Unless you can say that New Labour (for whatever good it did) failed these communities you're going to have a major struggle getting them back. Jeremy Gilbert sums it up by saying "we have to criticise the last 40 years, not just the last 10". Really what Labour needs to do is work out who it's electoral coalition actually is - it's all well and good for Nandy and co to talk about getting back towns but you need to have a country wide plan to get inside both educated urban multiethnic young people and older people in ex-industrial towns. Noone really knows what that is yet, though it seemed to sort of work in 2017 - is it possible to rebuild that coalition now Brexit is out of the way? Who knows. Note that the Tories are also having to work out the same thing - continuing to hold together an electoral coalition that includes both rural Surrey and Bligh is going to be a challenge to say the least.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:14
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https://twitter.com/dwmoook/status/1218065788143316992 Izzat... Nobby, Carrot and Vimes? I can't place any of the others but I'm kind of impressed I can recognise those three through the cyberpunk haze.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:31
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First impression: Wow that looks amazing. Can't wait to see whatever that is. It's Discworld!? KOGAHAZAN!! posted:https://twitter.com/dwmoook/status/1218065788143316992 Didn't the watch have a dwarf girl? Katt fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 14:37
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:https://twitter.com/dwmoook/status/1218065788143316992 and the lady in green is Sybil
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Jan 17, 2020 14:39
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https://twitter.com/lindyli/status/1217887433552953346?s=20 Bernie is getting the full Corbyn.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:43
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oxford_town posted:i know you're all going to call me a centrist melt for this... This is a good post and I agree with a lot of it. I'm sympathetic to the people responding negatively because I know it comes from Good and Correct places, but many of the arguments seem to boil to "Labour should keep doing the same things because anything else is bad," which doesn't seem useful right now. And, as I said before RLB just hasn't been impressive so far. Contrast that to Corbyn in 2015, who was the impressive candidate, staking out a clear anti austerity agenda that no one else dared match. He put forwards an arguement what should be done differently and why he as leader would achieve that, and I'm just not seeing anything remotely similar so far from RLB's camp. We lost the election badly and everyone knows it, so running on continuity and hoping that the electorate/media/culture changes to accommodate seems politically inept. That doesn't mean lurching to the right on economics or social policy (although yes, some people will definitely argue for that) , but it does mean giving serious thought what we could do differently and better. If you can't demonstrate that, it's going to be extremely hard to get a clear message out
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Jan 17, 2020 14:57
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Katt posted:Bernie is getting the full Corbyn. 
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Jan 17, 2020 15:06
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Katt posted:https://twitter.com/lindyli/status/1217887433552953346?s=20 https://twitter.com/nerdythor/statu...ingawful.com%2F
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Jan 17, 2020 15:07
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Niric posted:That doesn't mean lurching to the right on economics or social policy (although yes, some people will definitely argue for that) , but it does mean giving serious thought what we could do differently and better. If you can't demonstrate that, it's going to be extremely hard to get a clear message out
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Jan 17, 2020 15:10
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Niric posted:This is a good post and I agree with a lot of it. I'm sympathetic to the people responding negatively because I know it comes from Good and Correct places, but many of the arguments seem to boil to "Labour should keep doing the same things because anything else is bad," which doesn't seem useful right now. This is a real issue, because right now doing the right thing and being able to win elections are 2 very different things, and you can't really do anything until you've nailed the winning elections part. Obviously there's 2 ways go about it, move the electorate to meet your policies or move your policies to meet your electorate.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:11
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Katt posted:First impression: Wow that looks amazing. Can't wait to see whatever that is. Discworld dwarf ladies have beards. Bobby Deluxe posted:Seperate issue - who do I contact about getting on the star wars episode of the podcast? So far I've not really pursued it because I haven't really felt knowledgeable enough to contribute, but this is very much in my wheelhouse and frankly if I don't do it for this episode I will probably never muster the will. Welcome aboard comrade! Hop on the discord and ask for permission to the podcast channel. Link to the discord should be in the op. I don't know if they've already got a time set up to record the star wars episode or not but I'll ask them to hold for you if possible when I get home.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:12
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Niric posted:This is a good post and I agree with a lot of it. I'm sympathetic to the people responding negatively because I know it comes from Good and Correct places, but many of the arguments seem to boil to "Labour should keep doing the same things because anything else is bad," which doesn't seem useful right now. Unless you're planning to vote for the more racism candidate I'm not sure what else you're suggesting. Starmer isn't putting forward anything better. You can't really go more left than corbyn without getting into open revolution territory and everyone, tories included, has nicked his economic platform at least rhetorically, so what are you expecting?
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Jan 17, 2020 15:14
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Miftan posted:Welcome aboard comrade! Hop on the discord and ask for permission to the podcast channel. Link to the discord should be in the op. I don't know if they've already got a time set up to record the star wars episode or not but I'll ask them to hold for you if possible when I get home.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:17
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Miftan posted:Discworld dwarf ladies have beards. She looks sort of like a gnome. I like whatever she's going for.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:18
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:https://twitter.com/dwmoook/status/1218065788143316992 https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2020/jan/17/discworld-fans-are-right-to-be-nervous-about-the-bbcs-punk-rock-the-watch Reinterpretations can be really interesting (like the recent Watchmen TV show, which was improbably fantastic), but this looks... just kinda cheap and naff and ill thought through. The lighting probably has a lot to do with it looking cheap, but the contemporary H&M-advert costuming and haircuts seem like they're going to date this almost immediately (like that recent and lovely Robin Hood film).
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Jan 17, 2020 15:21
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Katt posted:Didn't the watch have a dwarf girl? Cheery, but she's a later addition. Apparently that's actually supposed to be Angua. 
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Jan 17, 2020 15:22
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Apparently that's actually supposed to be Angua. Angua whose most obvious physical feature is gigantic hair?
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Jan 17, 2020 15:24
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Miftan posted:Discworld dwarf ladies have beards. Unless they don't want to. I don't think the dwarf gender expression movement ever went as far as shaving in the books, because that'd be a taboo too far for them at the time. e: ^^ Second most if the moon's out.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:24
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I'm wierd causeI kinda like it, with the caveat that any wizards that show up should look 100% fantasy wizard from a fantasy ren fair for contrast this aestetic
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Jan 17, 2020 15:30
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Katt posted:First impression: Wow that looks amazing. Can't wait to see whatever that is. That is not how I ever imagined the watch when reading the books. It does not look colourful enough.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:31
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I don't mind it but I think the lady would make a much better nobby than angua.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:32
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Seperate issue - who do I contact about getting on the star wars episode of the podcast? So far I've not really pursued it because I haven't really felt knowledgeable enough to contribute, but this is very much in my wheelhouse and frankly if I don't do it for this episode I will probably never muster the will. Wait there's a Star Wars episode? That's much more my scene. Niric posted:https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2020/jan/17/discworld-fans-are-right-to-be-nervous-about-the-bbcs-punk-rock-the-watch I am very much in two minds just from the visuals. It has a lot of pluses, and it has a lot of negatives. There's a lot of aesthetic choices I like, and there's a lot of very on-point casting, but there's also loving desk fans, and the set for the watch looks like it's recycled from Brooklyn 99. The big thing I hope they cleave to is the tone of the originals. If this looks like it looks I'll be fine with it if it has noir narration. it could look bang on like the cover of Night Watch and I would dislike it if it didn't. Also does Angua not loving wash?!
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Jan 17, 2020 15:32
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Extremely fastidiously IIRC.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:33
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ThomasPaine posted:absolutely insane that a field guide responsible for the safety of antarctic expeditions, for which a required prerequisite is 'being a loving extremely experience mountaineer', gets paid only 24k a year while some dumbass marketing manager is on 3x that I might be wrong (on phone so can't check) but I think if you're out in Antarctica you get board and lodging 'found' on top of that. Though I think it's better to get a proper salary and a deduction for b&l mainly because future employers are obsessed with previous salaries as some kind of indicator of worth and in many cases will base salary offers on your previous salary instead of what the job is actually worth in salary terms.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:35
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Niric posted:https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2020/jan/17/discworld-fans-are-right-to-be-nervous-about-the-bbcs-punk-rock-the-watch The crossbow on the guard on the right has a picatinny rail.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:35
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VideoGames posted:That is not how I ever imagined the watch when reading the books. It does not look colourful enough. 
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Jan 17, 2020 15:35
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Pilchenstein posted:Everyone really needs to calm the gently caress down, to be perfectly honest. The next election will be radically different to the one that just happened because brexit will (probably lol) have been and gone by then. There is very little value right now, with the next election probably half a decade away, in running around changing policies just so that we can be seen changing policies. Corbyn was great because he challenged austerity, yes, but that only looked radical because the political consensus was so poo poo at the time. There is also the distinct possibility that the Tories bung a load of money to the left behind areas and keep them while hanging onto the comfortable shire voters in which case there is not a huge amount the opposition can do electorally
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Jan 17, 2020 15:36
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Yeah, look how bright that is  perfect against the murk of ankh-morpok. I hope the show is good and that my first impression is off!
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Jan 17, 2020 15:37
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OwlFancier posted:Angua whose most obvious physical feature is gigantic hair? Also tall, athletic, etc.  This is almost upside-down casting, which makes me think someone's trying to be clever. That or they cast it with darts.Well, I'm willing to see where they're going with it. The Watch books of all the Discworld books could transplant easily and this grubby noir/punk mess would work about as well as anything. Stormgale posted:I'm wierd causeI kinda like it, with the caveat that any wizards that show up should look 100% fantasy wizard from a fantasy ren fair for contrast this aestetic 
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Jan 17, 2020 15:38
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thespaceinvader posted:There's a lot of aesthetic choices I like, and there's a lot of very on-point casting, but there's also loving desk fans Regarde Aduck posted:The crossbow on the guard on the right has a picatinny rail.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:44
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Pilchenstein posted:We recorded that on sunday unfortunately.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:45
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thespaceinvader posted:Wait there's a Star Wars episode? That's much more my scene. A bugbear is sloppy/lazy costuming/production design where everyone's hair, makeup and eyebrows are immaculate and sharply-defined, but they've got some muck on them to signify poverty/grittiness/the-olden-days. Also, maybe it's just me but this looks a lot like Doctor Who in terms of the aesthetic. Which I know some people love, but is making me very, very wary
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Jan 17, 2020 15:47
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