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Rugganovich
Apr 29, 2017

cmdrk posted:

Jeez, that exudes late 90s/early 2k scifi. Makes me wonder if they watched this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_zwwQR_z_M) and said, "let's do that tv show as a game and go... beyond." :smuggo:

maybe.

Meanwhile Christ Robbers, 30 years later said "Let's do every tv show as a game and call it Star Citizen, oh and Squadron 42 which isn't a separate game"

TAXXE:

Rugganovich fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 19, 2020

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Rugganovich
Apr 29, 2017

Songbearer posted:

Watching Crytek and CIG fight each other is like watching two beached jellyfish battle for supremacy

I laughed, far too much at this.

I think this should be the new meme for the roaring 20's.

Arguing on the internet is like fighting another beached jellyfish. Even if you win....................

Sanya Juutilainen
Jun 19, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Beexoffel posted:

Motion capture used well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76sNmqMzUuI
Even has some clipping through the wall!

Keep your hands off Eizouken Star Citizen!

Rugganovich
Apr 29, 2017

Fidelitious posted:

I knew you would do this beet. How many Idrii have you bought now?

On the topic of the new documents:

If we take CIG's words at face value, this looks like a pretty CryRekt situation. The details of their agreement with Amazon were redacted but it sounds very strongly like they assigned the rights for all past versions to Amazon and that Amazon is completely free to relicense those to whoever they want. They just usually don't do that because people don't want to license old-rear end versions of CryEngine.

Without knowing the ins and outs of licensing it seems reasonable that CIG could switch their license to being from Amazon and not have to change anything else in terms of code. The effect of this on the GLA seems uncertain.

I was already leaning towards CIG prevailing in this case but this is really starting to look like a hail mary from Crytek long after they've already sold off all their intellectual property.

If we took lawyers words at face value, this planet would be a lot more hosed up than it currently is.

marumaru
May 20, 2013



Beexoffel posted:

Motion capture used well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76sNmqMzUuI
Even has some clipping through the wall!

huh, neat, direct references to the anime and everything.

definitely a lot of uncanny valley though, especially in the close up shots

MedicineHut
Feb 25, 2016

shrach posted:

If they were to successfully argue that, let's see. It seems it was first sold separately on 15th February 2016. CIG were in talks with Amazon from 2015 about a licence which was apparently granted in April 2016. So technically for over a month, CIG may have been in some breach with any work done on Squadron 42. But at which point did Crytek inform CIG that they were in breach and decide to take action? How much damages are applicable for that six week period? What is a fair remedy for that six weeks, given than punitive damages are apparently ruled out and only quantifiable losses suffered by Crytek can be recouped from CIG for selling SQ42 separately during those six weeks?

At this point the angle of attack for Crytek is so narrow and weak I just don't see how it can go anywhere.

No idea how weak or strong it is. Also those dates are just the public info, tip of the iceberg, discovery may show how early or late really CIG had been using the CT CE for the separate product, which could have been much earlier than Feb 2016, who knows. There is also the issue about when the CT CE license really stopped applying, if at all, given CIG has actually been always working on CT libraries and not Amazon ones etc.

MedicineHut fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 19, 2020

Elderbean
Jun 10, 2013


colonelwest posted:

I think the lesson of the 2010’s is just don’t crowdfund things kids. If someone can’t produce a product without coming around and shaking a virtual collection can in your face, then they probably should try another line of work.

I've crowdfunded a few tabletop games and I've been pleased with the results. The game has already been designed and the Kickstarter is to pay for art, physical printing, splatbooks, etc.

I feel like I've used good judgement though. I see Kickstarter being very useful for indie tabletop games. Tabletop RPGs are mostly just books though, no one is promising a virtual world or trees that glow in the dark.

Elderbean fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jan 19, 2020

Elderbean
Jun 10, 2013


Sillybones posted:

And that the artist has somehow not managed to improve at all over the decade(?) he has been doing it. That actually feels impossible.

Two decades, the comic started in 2000. Looking at that webpage is like going back in time.

colonelwest
Jun 30, 2018

Elderbean posted:

I've crowdfunded a few tabletop games and I've been pleased with the results. Generally speaking, the game has already been designed and the Kickstarter is to pay for art, physical printing, splatbooks, etc.

I feel like I've used good judgement though.

Yeah tabletop games seem to be the one thing that almost always succeed, probably because the printing costs are easy to predict and manage. Video games however have a long line of failures, and even if they launch they’re almost always disappointing, and MMOs seem to be the worst.

I think the only Kickstarter I’ve contributed to was the MST3K revival, which led to two new seasons on Netflix, so I can’t complain personally.

But, I think that for the most part Kickstarter has become like Scruffpuff said “a Make-a-Wish Foundation for morons”. Just a a bunch of pipe dream projects from talentless and often unscrupulous people who want to believe they are creative visionaries, supported by a bunch of gullible nerds who want to live vicariously through them.

Elderbean
Jun 10, 2013


colonelwest posted:

But, I think that for the most part Kickstarter has become like Scruffpuff said “a Make-a-Wish Foundation for morons”. Just a a bunch of pipe dream projects from talentless and often unscrupulous people who want to believe they are creative visionaries, supported by a bunch of gullible nerds who want to live vicariously through them.

Yeah, I think it works for indie RPGs because they're niche products. All of the ones I've backed have come from established creators. If they just take the money and run they're basically canceling themselves out of their hobby/community.

It's very different than some ad on Facebook from a tech "visionary/entrepreneur" who wants to change the way we use phones. I see people eagerly throwing money at that stuff though. It's insane how effective mockup videos of dream products can be.

Elderbean fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Jan 19, 2020

khy
Aug 15, 2005

So I haven't checked on Star Citizen in like, a year or two.

What's the status of it? Is it coming out reasonably soon? If not, what is currently the best open-universe space sim out there for someone who loved Privateer/Freelancer?

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007

khy posted:

So I haven't checked on Star Citizen in like, a year or two.

What's the status of it? Is it coming out reasonably soon? If not, what is currently the best open-universe space sim out there for someone who loved Privateer/Freelancer?

It’s already out and its great! Just buy an idris for max fun.*


*its not actually out and it wont ever be coming out.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
It's nowhere near complete. If you're only interested in the Star Citizen game vs Squadron 42 (single player) than there will likely be little progress on it this year as their focus appears to be SQ42 although this is also making almost no progress. Star Citizen is still very much a fever dream and little game play is actually implemented still.

That said, buy an Idris.

khy
Aug 15, 2005

Popete posted:

It's nowhere near complete. If you're only interested in the Star Citizen game vs Squadron 42 (single player) than there will likely be little progress on it this year as their focus appears to be SQ42 although this is also making almost no progress. Star Citizen is still very much a fever dream and little game play is actually implemented still.

That said, buy an Idris.

Wait, I thought that Squadron 42 was like arena multiplayer vs or something like that. Didn't it come out with some battle thing early?

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
Squadron 42 was the single player epic masterpiece. It will never see the light of day as anyone envisions.
Star Citizen is the MMO everything sim. It will never see the light of day as anyone envisions, and anyone you ask think's it'll be something else.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
Oh and also they are coming out with a Battlefield clone called Theaters of War. It's supposed to be out soon??? It will also likely be a buggy mess and probably not actually out anytime soon.

Why they are making a Battlefield clone in 2020? They have no idea how to actually make the game they've promised so they're hoping to replicate Fortnite and one of their spinoff game modes becomes succesful and everyone forgets about the original premise of their game.

Agony Aunt
Apr 17, 2018

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

khy posted:

So I haven't checked on Star Citizen in like, a year or two.

What's the status of it? Is it coming out reasonably soon? If not, what is currently the best open-universe space sim out there for someone who loved Privateer/Freelancer?

The answer needs an understanding of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, and Schroedinger's cat, and is probably quantum.

Agony Aunt fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jan 19, 2020

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007

I think the missile truck gif post a few pages back accurately sums up the state of the game.

Megalobster
Aug 31, 2018

MedicineHut posted:

No idea how weak or strong it is. Also those dates are just the public info, tip of the iceberg, discovery may show how early or late really CIG had been using the CT CE for the separate product, which could have been much earlier than Feb 2016, who knows. There is also the issue about when the CT CE license really stopped applying, if at all, given CIG has actually been always working on CT libraries and not Amazon ones etc.

Discovery is over. Discovery's result on Crytek side is "let's dismiss the case without prejudice, because our last cause of action (breach of contract) doesn't hold water as there is no SQ54 in the first place, and even if there was, our contract was so badly drafted that CIG simply "releasing" SQ54 in SC client would meet their obligation."

There is no 4D chess galaxybrain legal strategy behind this.

If the original GLA would have been drafted by competent people at Crytek, at a time they were in a stronger negotiating position than CIG, they might have imposed harsher and more restrictive obligations on CIG. But it's not the case. They dun hosed up.

Checkmate goonies.

shrach
Jan 10, 2004

daylight ssssaving time

Megalobster posted:

Discovery is over. Discovery's result on Crytek side is "let's dismiss the case without prejudice, because our last cause of action (breach of contract) doesn't hold water as there is no SQ54 in the first place, and even if there was, our contract was so badly drafted that CIG simply "releasing" SQ54 in SC client would meet their obligation."

There is no 4D chess galaxybrain legal strategy behind this.

If the original GLA would have been drafted by competent people at Crytek, at a time they were in a stronger negotiating position than CIG, they might have imposed harsher and more restrictive obligations on CIG. But it's not the case. They dun hosed up.

Checkmate goonies.

Yeah basically. The current timeline and current event (motion to dismiss) is something like this:

1. Three years ago CIG say they aren't even sure how Crytek can sue them for releasing Squadron 42 when they haven't released Squadron 42 and maybe it doesn't even exist. So the case should be dismissed.
2. ~Three years pass.
3. Crytek is now reduced to claiming some gotcha moment by discovering that Squadron 42 hasn't been released yet so they can't really proceed so they want to call the whole thing off and maybe try again another day if they feel like it.

Crytek themselves are not currently offering any argument in support of their cause beyond the fact that Squadron 42 is not yet released. They'll surely have to come up with something better than that if they want a good outcome here.

MedicineHut
Feb 25, 2016

shrach posted:

Yeah basically. The current timeline and current event (motion to dismiss) is something like this:

1. Three years ago CIG say they aren't even sure how Crytek can sue them for releasing Squadron 42 when they haven't released Squadron 42 and maybe it doesn't even exist. So the case should be dismissed.
2. ~Three years pass.
3. Crytek is now reduced to claiming some gotcha moment by discovering that Squadron 42 hasn't been released yet so they can't really proceed so they want to call the whole thing off and maybe try again another day if they feel like it.

Crytek themselves are not currently offering any argument in support of their cause beyond the fact that Squadron 42 is not yet released. They'll surely have to come up with something better than that if they want a good outcome here.

I do not think that is as much an argument in support of their cause as just an acknowledgement that their cause can only really be argued (or be better argued) whenever there is an actual product released to argue about. As for the recent limited bits of unveiled discovery, it does not represent any actual news, so not much else has really changed. The case is still as weak or strong as it was a few months ago.

I am also looking forward to the fun that may be had at witnessing the possible repercussions of CIG eventually deciding to merge both games again, and how that may impact their corporate structure and tax credit stuff in the UK.

MedicineHut fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Jan 19, 2020

TonyMcS
Aug 31, 2018

Apologize if this word salad has already been posted, but cast your eyes on the massive progress in SQ42 ;-) Doesn't really seem like it will be out soon.


AI
Ship AI had a busy couple of months working on NPC planetside traversal:
Flying on the surface of a planet is definitely different from open space; the expectation is that ships fly straight at a level altitude and bank when steering to different headings.

Ship AI
The first iteration involved creating a flight path suitable for the terrain height and local slope. The information generated is used to correct the path to ensure ships always have a specified minimal clearance to the terrain below while steering according to the inclination of the terrain. For example, a ship will favor a flight path through a valley rather than over a ridge. Hand-placed and procedurally generated objects (rocks, buildings, etc.) are not part of the terrain elevation information and are obtained by a different query. In the next iteration, the team will integrate this information so spaceships can adapt their flight paths accordingly.
The same considerations apply to in-atmosphere dogfighting. The prototype of this was shown during the recent CitizenCon playthrough, with three security ships engaging the fugitive Carrack. The team also experimented with a stunt maneuver to add flair and personality to AI behavior.
Work was also completed on Collision Avoidance. This system runs in the background during AI flight and provides steering correction if a collision is likely to happen within a given time horizon. In the current development version, the system considers the collision resolution of all piloted vehicles, vehicles without a pilot (abandoned vehicles, derelicts), static obstacles, and procedurally generated asteroids.
Recently, the system was heavily reworked to minimize its impact on performance. This included ensuring all vehicles and obstacles were organized in memory according to their current host zone to make the search for the surrounding participants faster. It also makes sure the collision avoidance update never gets an exclusive lock on the cached information when creating and processing individual AI collision problems. This is a critical aspect, as the updates of all AI entities run concurrently, so having an exclusive lock can heavily impact performance.

AI (Social)
The Social AI Team made several improvements to path following, including the ability to specify movement speed when following a path edge, add branching paths, wait at a path point continually playing any function until events have fired, trigger a random Subsumption function from a weighted list, and enable/disable Subsumption secondary activities when following a path edge.
Work also continued on the bartender, with the first iteration of mixing station tech added. This extends the character's ability to not only pick up and serve items from the fridge, but to prepare new drinks at the mixing station. Several other small improvements were also made to make the overall experience smoother.

Finally for Social AI, the base idle system in the actor state machine was improved by moving all decision-making to the control state. This should make the whole system more robust and stable over the network, potentially avoiding the desync issues seen in the past as well as helping the team debug potential issues more efficiently. Further on the optimization, the usable caching has been updated to listen for tile-created events from navigation meshes.

AI (Character Combat)
The team's primary focus over the past few months was on the overall player vs. NPC combat experience. This involved implementing new behavior tactics for shotgun-wielding NPCs, giving them the tactical choice to get much closer to the target than before to make proper use of the weapon. They also began improving vision perception so that the designers can more easily adjust the size of vision cones and how fast a target is perceived inside them.
They also made improvements to the system that generates cover location and usage to enable NPCs to choose to only partially cover themselves. Small optimizations were also made to AI hearing perception and specific designer movement requests.

Audio
The Audio Team worked on and reviewed all sound for chapter four, paying particular attention to the Idris, improving mark-up and SFX where required.

Cinematics
The pre-holiday period was a busy one for the Cinematics Team and included story scene implementation and production quality passes for the camera, staging, and lighting (most scenes received their third of four planned passes).

Alongside the usual pipeline tasks, they worked on upcoming tech developments, specifically enabling players to interrupt certain scenes and NPC conversations. They kicked this off by marking-up scenes with a number of interrupt points to indicate where a scene could stop and resume and considered how it would do so if the player doesn't behave. The goal is to do this with minimal (or no) additional animation fragments.
Cinematics also tested new animation code from Engineering that will allow performance-captured scenes to work from other directions than they were intially directed for. For example, if the actor representing the player character approached a bridge officer from the right, this code allows the performance of the bridge officer to mirror in real-time should the player approach from a different angle. Most games either use a locomotion solution (where the NPC constantly turns to face the player via a systemic set of motions) or use rigid performance capture data that only works from a specific direction. This solution bridges that gap as much as possible. Of course, there are limitations; the team are currently testing the restrictions, performance implications, and the authenticity vs. player agency trade-off.
Cinematics also worked with Character Art and Engineering to elevate character quality to the final production level. Character Art are finalizing the bridge officer, using Executive Officer Sofia Kelly as the testbed for the new skin and hair. This led to the prioritization of scenes and where the character and camera move around a lot to test the temporal anti-aliasing (TSAA) stability.
Since last year, the TSAA solution has advanced considerably and now creates a highly stable final image that intelligently smooths harsh white pixels, such as specular flicker. However, it was also smoothing out carefully crafted character eye-lights. So, Engineering delivered a solution to ensure eye-light reflections in character eyeballs are not smoothed out and the bright dots are kept alive, which is vital to giving characters an additional flicker of life. Currently, characters as lit as if on a movie set, with something similar to a virtual dedolight employed to cast eye-light.
Another area that received a quality push was comms calls. Squadron 42 features real-time render-to-texture comm feeds from NPCs. So, if the player has a comms call with Old Man, the wing leader will actually be in his cockpit and filmed live when responding. The team wanted to determine a gold standard for key video comms partners the player will interact with, including their wing leader, air traffic control, and an Idris captain.
These comms calls have several steps:
1. Figuring out where the camera that films the NPC would be located. For the best possible framing, they want to ground the camera as much as possible and avoid it floating in a seemingly magical way.
2. Lighting that area well while keeping it cheap to avoid dozens of shadows and performance-affecting variables.
3. Setting interference FX, such as comms call line open and closed.
On the animation side, this required R&D to figure out what to keep from the motion-captured cockpit performances (all actors were sitting down in cockpit mock-ups on set) and when to apply the piloting inverse kinematics to have the characters hold the throttle and flight stick. They're still exploring whether they want g-force on those conversation partners on top of the actor performances.

Engineering
In the UK, the Actor Team began implementing the new personal inner thought system. This now-radial menu allows all player functionality to be accessed more easily than the current iteration (such as taking off a helmet or equipping weapons). It's context sensitive too, so the options will change depending on the location or available actions. For example, in a cockpit, additional options such as exiting the seat or engaging landing gear become available. They also added a �favorites� section for commonly used commands and enabled keyboard/button shortcuts to be assigned to any command.
Regarding melee combat, the team moved onto body dragging, starting with interacting with the body, repositioning it, and basic player movement. For actor status, they finished the temperature system and moved onto hunger and thirst, setting up the initial stats.
Over in Frankfurt, Engineering spent time in December and January on game physics. This including exposing a linear air and water resistance scale, making damping linear (and not step dependent), using the box pruner to accelerate tri-mesh collisions, and general optimization. Regarding attachment support, they moved boundary brushes and entities to the object container entity and added the ability to query for the attached points during a previous attachment. They also exposed the surface area on geometries and optimized loading times and calculations while verifying parts.
The team continued with the new graphics pipeline and render interface (Gen12), made robust changes to the Vulkan layer to prepare for use with scene objects, added PSO and layout cache, improved API validation, and ported tiled shading light volume rasterization to the new pipeline. They also continued the parallel refactor of existing render code in support of the new graphics pipeline and APIs and worked on the global render state removal and device texture code refactor.
For planet terrain shadows, multi-cascade and blending support was added to improve detail and range. This will also eliminate various existing shadow artifacts. Development continued on volumetric terrain shadow support for fog, with the teaming coming up with a multi-scattered ambient lighting solution that ties into unified raymarching.
Multi-scattering improvements via a specialized sky irradiance LUT was made to improve unified raymarching. Updates were made to the jittered lookup and TSAA to vastly improve quality and reduce the number of raymarching steps. They also made lighting consistent so that planet atmosphere affects ground fog layers and vice versa, experimented with ozone layer support in-atmosphere, and added support for scattering queries (transparent objects).
Finally, work continued on planetary clouds, ocean rendering, frozen oceans, and wind bending for static brushes.

Graphics

In the final weeks of 2019 the Graphics Team focused on stability, with great progress made on profiling and optimizing the renderer. This work will continue into the first quarter of 2020.

Level Design
The Social Team continued work on the narrative interactions, applying additional polish to the various scenes in the form of gestures, head turns, and eye-looks to make them appear as natural as possible. This ongoing process will take a while to complete as there are several hours of conversations throughout Squadron 42 that allow the player to feel a part of the world, rather than just a spectator.
The Level Design Team are focused on the FPS-heavy sections of the game, working alonside the various feature teams to make sure AI behavior is realistic in all encounters. The pre-combat behaviors were also worked on, such as patrolling, investigation, and reactions to audio attenuation on differing materials.
The space and dogfight teams progressed with the AI behaviors of specific types of ship. Combat maneuvers are constantly being iterated on, while AI awareness of its own ship emissions, remaining ordinance, component damage, etc. is in progress. The team are also delivering level prototypes for some of the exotic gameplay puzzles specific to Squadron 42 that rely on underlying core mechanics.

Narrative
With CitizenCon wrapped up, the Narrative finished off the year focusing on SQ42. Alongside ongoing text requirements for mission objectives and UI, they reviewed progress on the various levels and synced with Design on the overall game experience. They also worked with the Animation Team to provide additional material for background NPC scenes. For example, they added moments where named characters interact with random NPCs to create additional character or story flavor.

QA
The QA Team provided dedicated tools support for the Cinematics Team. This mainly involved investigating various crashes from loading cutscene levels and DataCore issues within the editor roll-up bar. They also set up a new track view checklist to better maintain and test the editor. They're planning to run these tests weekly and whenever a track-view-specific QA test is required. Finally for QA, cinematic client captures of different scene playthroughs for review by the designers and animators are ongoing and will continue into the new year.

Tech Animation
November and December saw Tech Animation rework Mannequin setups to clean up older usable iterations and address bugs. They worked with the animation and code teams on the updated bartender and implemented socket/attach point tech for props in Maya. They created multiple prop rigs for the usable and cinematics teams, including plates, trays, maintenance ladders, and ship turrets. Support was given to the Weapons Team along with new rigs, updates to older rigs, and in-engine bug fixes. The necessary rig additions for the new real digital acting tech were completed too.
New toolsets were authored to help visualize the complex engine-side attachment systems inside Maya. These assist the animators in their daily workflow and makes it infinitely easier to author props too. Development continued on the facial rigging pipelines; this lengthy initiative will ultimately yield great things when the team authors their own in-house face rigs compatible with the DNA systems. They also worked on the comms calls with Cinematics.

Tech Art
Frankfurt's Tech Art Team worked closely with the UK's Tech Animation on the design and implementation of the new runtime Rig Logic plugin for Maya. In contrast to previous hard-coded versions, the new plugin is entirely data-driven and utilizes so-called rig definition files that can be changed as needed without the assistance of an engine programmer. The removal of this bottleneck will give more creative freedom to the artists and significantly shorten iteration times. While the Maya runtime node is responsible for driving rigs based on facial and/or body animation, a bespoke command was also implemented. This allows the convenient querying and editing of all parts of the rig definition data and forms the foundation of the team's new rigging pipeline and tools.

User Interface (UI)
The UI Team's main SQ42 focus of the past couple of months was the actor status display. This is one of the first UI elements that will hide when not in use, meaning the screen isn't cluttered with things players don't need immediate knowledge of. They also continuing creating visual targets and concepts for the final looks of various UI elements, including the visor the player wears throughout much of the game and target selection. The logo for an important faction in the SQ42 narrative was completed too.

VFX
VFX continued to work with Art and Design to flesh out key locations and gameplay loops. This included revisiting some of the older effects and making use of the more recent GPU particle collision improvements. The artists also iterated on the workflow for gas clouds, with several improvements coming online to improve the overall process.

Beexoffel
Oct 4, 2015

Herald of the Stimpire

Sanya Juutilainen posted:

Keep your hands off Eizouken Star Citizen!

Inacio posted:

huh, neat, direct references to the anime and everything.

definitely a lot of uncanny valley though, especially in the close up shots

I don't think I broke the anime restrictions of this thread! :angel:
Yeah, the Stimpire lives in the uncanny valley.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer
I just wanted Space Court

I feel crushed by the impending non-victory lap from MoMA

:flaccid:

Sandweed
Sep 7, 2006

All your friends are me.

I just realized, Crytek can now end up contributing to funding the development of SC and I think that is beautiful.

Bob Socko
Feb 20, 2001

khy posted:

If not, what is currently the best open-universe space sim out there for someone who loved Privateer/Freelancer?

You've got a few choices. They don’t have the scope of Star Citizen, but on the flip side, they are real games. If you’re looking for fun space combat, try Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, one of its inspirations was Privateer. Elite Dangerous is the best in terms of realism, but there are no space legs until later this year. No Man’s Sky keeps adding features and is now essentially the game originally promised a few years ago.

Bob Socko fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jan 19, 2020

shrach
Jan 10, 2004

daylight ssssaving time

MedicineHut posted:

I do not think that is as much an argument in support of their cause as just an acknowledgement that their cause can only really be argued (or be better argued) whenever there is an actual product released to argue about. As for the recent limited bits of unveiled discovery, it does not represent any actual news, so not much else has really changed. The case is still as weak or strong as it was a few months ago.

But the problem they have to overcome right now, is that CIG said from the very start that the game hasn't been released. Crytek have been arguing against that defence for three years. Now that three years have passed, they are saying that CIG were right and it should be dismissed with advantage to Crytek with regard to future filings. CIG are saying, this motion should not be passed, but if it is passed, it should be with advantage to CIG because this is what they have been saying all along.

For the case to be strong, Crytek have to hope their own motion to dismiss fails entirely and instead it goes to trial. Given they filed the motion to dismiss and CIG are fighting the motion to dismiss it doesn't feel like going to trial is good for Crytek.

Also, this is the part that really seems to have changed in the last few months:

Quavers posted:

:trustme: In addition to being unripe, the evidence shows that Crytek filed its SQ42 claim based on the false assumption that CIG’s license from Amazon covered only the publicly released version of Lumberyard. What Crytek did not know is that the license also included rights to prior versions of CryEngine itself, rights which Amazon granted in order to minimize the engineering time it would take CIG to migrate to Lumberyard. It was not until May 22, 2019 -- a year and a half after filing this lawsuit -- that Crytek finally decided to ask Amazon whether it “licensed the Cryengine itself directly to CIG,” conceding that the answer “might potentially have quite some influence on our evaluation of the legal situation . . . .”

shrach fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jan 19, 2020

MedicineHut
Feb 25, 2016

shrach posted:

But the problem they have to overcome right now, is that CIG said from the very start that the game hasn't been released. Crytek have been arguing against that defence for three years. Now that three years have passed, they are saying that CIG were right and it should be dismissed with advantage to Crytek with regard to future filings. CIG are saying, this motion should not be passed, but if it is passed, it should be with advantage to CIG because this is what they have been saying all along.

For the case to be strong, Crytek have to hope their own motion to dismiss fails entirely and instead it goes to trial. Given they filed the motion to dismiss and CIG are fighting the motion to dismiss it doesn't feel like going to trial is good for Crytek.

Yeah, no idea what would the argument need to be there. But it is not even clear that CryTek may be actually saying that CIG were right. The details about this dwelve into very dark areas far beyond my puny knowledge and would probably be (if any) still hidden in discovery. For example, is taxed pre-sales income, prior to release, considered fair game for the purpose of this lawsuit? Maybe it is, but maybe CryTek has realized through discovery that the prize is not large enough yet and is maneuvering to make it larger. We know any sales post release would be fair game, for sure. How the size of the pie grows and shrinks depending on timing can be perfectly considered as a fair reason to postpone stuff. But as said, no idea.

MedicineHut fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jan 19, 2020

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

I love this stuff

quote:

Tech Animation
November and December saw Tech Animation rework Mannequin setups to clean up older usable iterations and address bugs. They worked with the animation and code teams on the updated bartender and implemented socket/attach point tech for props in Maya. They created multiple prop rigs for the usable and cinematics teams, including plates, trays, maintenance ladders, and ship turrets. Support was given to the Weapons Team along with new rigs, updates to older rigs, and in-engine bug fixes. The necessary rig additions for the new real digital acting tech were completed too.
New toolsets were authored to help visualize the complex engine-side attachment systems inside Maya. These assist the animators in their daily workflow and makes it infinitely easier to author props too. Development continued on the facial rigging pipelines; this lengthy initiative will ultimately yield great things when the team authors their own in-house face rigs compatible with the DNA systems. They also worked on the comms calls with Cinematics.

Tools, pipelines, bartenders, etc.

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"

TonyMcS posted:

Cinematics also tested new animation code from Engineering that will allow performance-captured scenes to work from other directions than they were intially directed for. For example, if the actor representing the player character approached a bridge officer from the right, this code allows the performance of the bridge officer to mirror in real-time should the player approach from a different angle. Most games either use a locomotion solution (where the NPC constantly turns to face the player via a systemic set of motions) or use rigid performance capture data that only works from a specific direction. This solution bridges that gap as much as possible. Of course, there are limitations; the team are currently testing the restrictions, performance implications, and the authenticity vs. player agency trade-off.

Why... why would you mocap the player character? Was the original idea that it'd just be a pure cut scene? But now they're trying to hack it back into a live action scene?

Chris should stop watering down his vision and just trap us in the immersion animations


TonyMcS posted:

Work also continued on the bartender, with the first iteration of mixing station tech added. This extends the character's ability to not only pick up and serve items from the fridge, but to prepare new drinks at the mixing station. Several other small improvements were also made to make the overall experience smoother.

Mixing station tech! Fridge use!


TonyMcS posted:

The team are also delivering level prototypes for some of the exotic gameplay puzzles specific to Squadron 42 that rely on underlying core mechanics.

Chapter One was finished in 2014. Is this Chapter Two now?

Chris: 'the level of design and implementation on the missions... the puzzles... it's crazy' (2014)

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF0EK3QBYRM

This 2014 Squadron 42 looks pretty finished and ready to ship.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Exotic gameplay puzzles? What is that, actually figuring out how to launch the game?

DigitalPenny
Sep 3, 2018

SoftNum posted:

The whole Amazon thing sort of hinges on the idea that Amazon is allowed to licence older, unmodified versions of CryTek to other people through private licencing schemes. Which I guess is possible but it seems pants-on-head-crazy to allow Amazon to do that? Why don't all CryEngine licencees just go beg Amazon for free licence?


Also it IS strange that CIG never put the fact that they have a licence in any of their court documents to now.

I don't get it, CIG had a slam dunk all this time spent 400k I legal fees without wheeling it out?

Also cryteks legal team should have seen the Amazon contract that crytek signed?

This seams very damming for crytek but also makes little sense.

The argument they were licensed and using X. Then decided to get the liscense for using X from someone else rendinering the first licsense void dosent hold water for me.

If all this were true CIG would not care about it being dismissed without prejudice.

Also lol they have done 0 lumberyard switching.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Megalobster posted:

Discovery is over. Discovery's result on Crytek side is "let's dismiss the case without prejudice, because our last cause of action (breach of contract) doesn't hold water as there is no SQ54 in the first place, and even if there was, our contract was so badly drafted that CIG simply "releasing" SQ54 in SC client would meet their obligation."

While the conclusions are probably correct, they’re still in discovery. Discovery raised something that caused Crytek to agree with the judge that the case may not be ripe; that something was redacted due to it being down to the operation or business confidentiality. They have at least a month or so of source code examination.

If this was simply jitters, they’d walk away rather than ask to dismiss without prejudice and CI!G would let them. For one thing, Crytek is actually specifically pointing out that the work done will not be wasted. WE are not party to all the information, and the courts have this depressing resistance against wishful thinking, prayers and punditry.

I’d also caution that CI!G have some history of making claims in legal filings that stretch the truth, so relying on their arguments as ‘truth’ is somewhat funny. The courts slapped down their claim that Crytek was just undertaking a shakedown, something that they went for again.

Again, unless they agree to dismiss the case, this is going to jury trial.

Also, a last point, you know that the quality of a contract has no bearing on discussions of breaking the contract? People agree to terrible contracts all the time, and unless they’re signed under duress, or seek to modify the law, they’re still a contract.

I always caution people to wait and see with cases because it doesn’t take much to derail, and just looking at the arguments for the last filing can skew observation.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe
Just another quick point; the ‘Parry diagram’; what do people believe that actually shows?

I think there’s a danger in elevating a .net paint sketch based on a fiction to the level of fact, particularly if nobody can test the claim that they simply re-attached the repo at the lumberyard commit point, for one thing, lumberyard would need the history, and that’s not normally something you hand over when you sell a release.

Something has always smelled about that ‘we just attached the commit’, and people should be more reticent until they have commit hashes and their relation to the release tags; Chris made a big deal about how many changes they were making to the engine, and most of their original guys were ‘pre-engine’ developers.

Hav fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jan 19, 2020

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

Squadron 42 features real-time render-to-texture comm feeds from NPCs. So, if the player has a comms call with Old Man, the wing leader will actually be in his cockpit and filmed live when responding. The team wanted to determine a gold standard for key video comms partners the player will interact with, including their wing leader, air traffic control, and an Idris captain.

What the gently caress does this even mean

I’m just picturing Chris sitting in a directors chair ready whenever someone logs into sq42

Action !!

Megalobster
Aug 31, 2018

Hav posted:

While the conclusions are probably correct, they’re still in discovery. Discovery raised something that caused Crytek to agree with the judge that the case may not be ripe; that something was redacted due to it being down to the operation or business confidentiality. They have at least a month or so of source code examination.

If this was simply jitters, they’d walk away rather than ask to dismiss without prejudice and CI!G would let them. For one thing, Crytek is actually specifically pointing out that the work done will not be wasted. WE are not party to all the information, and the courts have this depressing resistance against wishful thinking, prayers and punditry.

I’d also caution that CI!G have some history of making claims in legal filings that stretch the truth, so relying on their arguments as ‘truth’ is somewhat funny. The courts slapped down their claim that Crytek was just undertaking a shakedown, something that they went for again.

Again, unless they agree to dismiss the case, this is going to jury trial.

Also, a last point, you know that the quality of a contract has no bearing on discussions of breaking the contract? People agree to terrible contracts all the time, and unless they’re signed under duress, or seek to modify the law, they’re still a contract.

I always caution people to wait and see with cases because it doesn’t take much to derail, and just looking at the arguments for the last filing can skew observation.

Joke's on you, I was merely Orttwin posting!

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Megalobster posted:

Joke's on you, I was merely Orttwin posting!

Doh, you crazy kids!

shrach
Jan 10, 2004

daylight ssssaving time

Hav posted:

I think you’re missing the whole concept of ‘evading the spirit’ of a contract that was undertaken by a couple of parties based on an ongoing relationship to work in partnership, which is a little more than a vendor/customer relationship.

That’s going to be basis of the jury trial; a broken contract and agreement to work together. CI!G is actually exhausting a lot of their defense through a reductio ad absurdum of individual points.
This seems irrelevant to the motion to dismiss though. Crytek aren't arguing any of this in their motion to dismiss.

Hav posted:

Also, you can’t simply ‘change the headers’ declaring copyright on the code; there’s a fuckton of case law about this that goes back to when Microsoft tried to destroy Linux, and previous to that, when the System V/BSD debacle happened.

Given how poorly written the GLA is for Crytek, can you imagine how poorly written the contract with Amazon is written for Crytek?

It doesn't seem like CIG even had to change the headers at all. It seems that Amazon was both allowed and willing to give CIG the rights to use the identical CryEngine source code with all the old headers, tools and credits that they were using from the start.

That CIG did eventually change just the credits to Amazon 8 months after getting the Amazon licence seems to be more between CIG and Amazon than anything Crytek can complain about.

If this wasn't a problem for Crytek, why would they ask Amazon about the licence and seemingly getting an answer they are not happy with and CIG are happy with? Crytek will need to rebut that Amazon licence if it isn't as carte blanche as CIG are claiming, after the motion to dismiss.

shrach fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jan 19, 2020

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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

khy posted:

So I haven't checked on Star Citizen in like, a year or two.

What's the status of it? Is it coming out reasonably soon? If not, what is currently the best open-universe space sim out there for someone who loved Privateer/Freelancer?

Rebel Galaxy: Outlaw is a modern take on Privateer.

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