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evilweasel posted:Is there a reason this absurd corner case needs to exist or is it just whoever wrote the rules loving with people? It's so you can have an exception to prove the rule that every instance of targetting has the word 'target' in the phrasing. Anyways at me prerelease pulled out 2-0-1 after the disappointing round one unintentional draw. Moment of the night was winning an ashiok mirror with an empty library after turning their fifth nightmare into a fish to have one fewer exile trigger during combat.
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Jan 19, 2020 22:19
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evilweasel posted:Is there a reason this absurd corner case needs to exist or is it just whoever wrote the rules loving with people? it's just some bullshit that has to exist due to how the rules are worded, and i would not mind if it went away because if you explain to a new player, "no i get to attach my aura to your hexproof creature because i didn't cast it, it was just put into play" it fuckin' sounds like you're cheating them, even if it's just how the rules work.
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Jan 19, 2020 22:25
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Hellsau posted:it's just some bullshit that has to exist due to how the rules are worded, and i would not mind if it went away because if you explain to a new player, "no i get to attach my aura to your hexproof creature because i didn't cast it, it was just put into play" it fuckin' sounds like you're cheating them, even if it's just how the rules work. They tried to get rid of it on MTGO but it broke Animate Dead so they decided to keep it as-is.
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Jan 19, 2020 22:48
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Hellsau posted:it's just some bullshit that has to exist due to how the rules are worded, and i would not mind if it went away because if you explain to a new player, "no i get to attach my aura to your hexproof creature because i didn't cast it, it was just put into play" it fuckin' sounds like you're cheating them, even if it's just how the rules work. Current R&D is doing a lot of loose things in general though. New players are not amused watching Cat Oven operate, especially when they try to remove it and that doesn't work most of the time either. And I can't be the only person a little surprised the signposted monoblack curve just naturally has instant speed discard.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:05
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i suppose this can all be solved by getting rid of hexproof
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Jan 19, 2020 23:10
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Minus 7 Calix to get your Dreadful Apathy back is the only way in the set to kill a Dream Trawler besides the actual wrath. It's good and it's not even that confusing. You can't target hexproof. Things suddenly coming into play doesn't target.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:22
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Start printing spells that let you choose. Picky bolt, picky path 
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Jan 19, 2020 23:22
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or how about they don't print unbeatable limited bombs at rare that have nearly no constructed applicationssuicidesteve posted:Minus 7 Calix to get your Dreadful Apathy back is the only way in the set to kill a Dream Trawler besides the actual wrath. It's good and it's not even that confusing. You can't target hexproof. Things suddenly coming into play doesn't target. There's the WB uncommon that returns a creature and/or enchantment from the graveyard to play, and that card is very playable.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:24
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Hellsau posted:i suppose this can all be solved by getting rid of hexproof Mods?!
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Jan 19, 2020 23:26
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evilweasel posted:Is there a reason this absurd corner case needs to exist or is it just whoever wrote the rules loving with people? This is mostly a confusing result of a complicated rules system but necessary for consistency. It's difficult to understand here, but important for a lot of other effects that use the same rules and avoid targeting and the stack. Hellsau posted:i suppose this can all be solved by getting rid of hexproof I miss shroud, which of course would work the same way here, but I really just wanted to mention how much I miss shroud.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:31
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Hellsau posted:or how about they don't print unbeatable limited bombs at rare that have nearly no constructed applications Are you talking about Dream Trawler? Because that card appears to be nuts in constructed as well.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:41
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Chill la Chill posted:Start printing spells that let you choose. Picky bolt, picky path I asked about this in this very thread a while back. I still find it funny that hexproof is a very literally “protection from ‘targeting’” so if a card did say “choose” instead of “target” you could get around hexproof. An recent example of this is Haphazard Bombardment. Another example is Council’s Judgement which uses “vote” instead of “target.”
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Jan 19, 2020 23:43
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It's weird that this odd edge case is suddenly going to be a regular thing in limited though. There's also the spell that flickers an aura, god knows how new players are supposed to understand that interaction.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:52
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Hellsau posted:it's just some bullshit that has to exist due to how the rules are worded, and i would not mind if it went away because if you explain to a new player, "no i get to attach my aura to your hexproof creature because i didn't cast it, it was just put into play" it fuckin' sounds like you're cheating them, even if it's just how the rules work. yeah it seems like something that really should get fixed in the rules because it makes no drat sense and at best it feels like you're angle-shooting based on a typo in the rules rather than it being a clever thing you're doing
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Jan 19, 2020 23:54
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On the one hand, it's incontrovertible that Magic is a complex game that's accreted a lot of corner cases over the years. A lot of this could've been avoided (or at least attenuated) if they'd been slightly less keyword-happy for much of the past two decades, but I digress. On the other hand, it's really baffling how low some people's expectations are for new players just learning the various interactions as they come up, just like every other more-than-marginally complex game in the history of ever. Some of the reactions (both direct and reported) to learning how interaction X works in Magic read as though you were explaining to a new player how pawn promotion works in chess, and instead of just going "oh, huh, cool," they sat there with their mouth open going  but is pawn!! how can become queen?? Granted that, again, Magic has a lot more of these interactions than chess or really 99% of games, any individual case is still just an individual case and you can learn them as they come up; there isn't a test next week or anything.Edit: In fairness, I guess another part of the problem is that in Magic your source for learning new interactions is often the person playing them against you, and there's somewhat more of a history of people being scummy (or just wrong) than there is in some other games.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:06
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Setec_Astronomy posted:Are you talking about Dream Trawler? Because that card appears to be nuts in constructed as well. It would have been nice if they made it mythic, but it's also two colors with 4 colored mana, hardly the end of the world. I think he means cards like Tetzimoc.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:08
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Marketing New Brain posted:It would have been nice if they made it mythic, but it's also two colors with 4 colored mana, hardly the end of the world. I think he means cards like Tetzimoc. waiting for Jeskai Big Draws, with Niv Mizzet and Dream Trawler and a whole bunch of nonsense
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Jan 20, 2020 00:27
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Marketing New Brain posted:It would have been nice if they made it mythic, but it's also two colors with 4 colored mana, hardly the end of the world. I think he means cards like Tetzimoc. 2WWUU is very easy to cast in a UW deck. It's not particularly splashable, but you're very likely, if you hit six mana in a two color UW deck, to have at least two Islands and two Plains. If you hit 6 Islands or 6 Plains and none of the others you likely lost before getting to 6, and if you hit 5 of one and 1 of the other then at least you have a bomb to turn the game around the turn you draw a second source.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:32
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One of my favorite things about mtg is that almost everything can be worked around somehow. I like that there are ways to attach things to hexproof creatures, kill indestructible permanents, even get around protection. It gives the game incredible depth and variety for both threats and answers. The weird rule interactions that flow from that tend to be rare and not that impactful. You just remember the right way to do it next time and it isn't an issue. Except KCI. That just seems like abusing the rules.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:41
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Hellsau posted:2WWUU is very easy to cast in a UW deck. It's not particularly splashable, but you're very likely, if you hit six mana in a two color UW deck, to have at least two Islands and two Plains. If you hit 6 Islands or 6 Plains and none of the others you likely lost before getting to 6, and if you hit 5 of one and 1 of the other then at least you have a bomb to turn the game around the turn you draw a second source. Oh it is absolutely the best bomb in the set, but other than being rare instead of mythic there's just not much to complain about, and it seems designed for constructed. I tend to only get riled up when they put unlimited bombs in a set and they are complete duds or you can just splash them. You won't see people doing the Glorybringer in pack 3 audible with a card like this. Jeoh posted:waiting for Jeskai Big Draws, with Niv Mizzet and Dream Trawler and a whole bunch of nonsense I'm expecting it to be the new midrange and control darling like Niv was and splashing in all the UW/x decks. Esper obviously but Jeskai and Bant too. It might actually be best in Bant because those decks tend to have the most dead cards and lands to pitch to keep it alive. Seems like a house in an Uro explore shell. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jan 20, 2020 |
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Jan 20, 2020 01:09
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After beating Dream Trawler with 'that one weird trick' with Apathy and the WB uncommon to return it to the battlefield in 1v1..., Played against it in 2hg. Yep, it's still a bomb, couldn't beat it, lost to it singlehandily. Can't Dodge a bullet twice
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Jan 20, 2020 01:11
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A guy at prerelease literally said to me that lifelink is a very complex mechanic to me.
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Jan 20, 2020 01:24
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give head or get dead posted:A guy at prerelease literally said to me that lifelink is a very complex mechanic to me. To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand lifelink
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Jan 20, 2020 01:32
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It's like ol' standard staple Prognostic Sphinx but it hits harder, gains life, and draws instead of scrying. It comes out the turn after Time Wipe which might matter.
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Jan 20, 2020 01:38
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The mechanic is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the lines of play will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Maro’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his puns- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The players understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of this game, to realise that it’s not just wizard poker- it says something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike lifelink truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in mtg’s existential catchphrase "block, sac my cat to oven," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Mark Rosewater’s genius wit unfolds itself on their FNM tables. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂 And yes, by the way, i DO have a Phyrexian symbol tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 pro points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid
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Jan 20, 2020 02:00
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i put on my jace beleren hoodie as i crack open my sealed pool. five dream trawlers, heh
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Jan 20, 2020 02:23
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Star Man posted:Run while you still can. ok
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Jan 20, 2020 03:27
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If you didn't have to select a target when casting an aura and instead just put them straight onto the battlefield how many cards would that break?
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Jan 20, 2020 03:39
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Irony Be My Shield posted:If you didn't have to select a target when casting an aura and instead just put them straight onto the battlefield how many cards would that break? Every protection spell - if the aura gives -toughness, then the creature would die at the same time the aura falls off.
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Jan 20, 2020 03:42
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Mono-Black Devotion seems real strong in Standard. Have also run into at least 3 UWx decks with that hosed up sphinx card doing the T3feri, Time Wipe, beater plan.
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Jan 20, 2020 03:45
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honestly, rakdos knights seems great rn. i know it's not creative to pummel people into the ground with embercleave, but with lots of people playing durdly omen decks or trying to get fancy with self-mill, you can just steal games. MBD is also just way too slow to deal with rakdos unless they curve out perfectly into ayara, but that might change.
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Jan 20, 2020 03:50
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JerryLee posted:Edit: In fairness, I guess another part of the problem is that in Magic your source for learning new interactions is often the person playing them against you, and there's somewhat more of a history of people being scummy (or just wrong) than there is in some other games. The novelty makes for interesting mistakes. I was watching a semifinal match up and one of our top flight players that frequents the store played Return to Nature in response to an escape, claiming he knocked it out of the graveyard before the cast while also saying the other person exile the extra cost cards. The other guy just trusted it as they were in turns and I’m pouring over the rulings page and that’s definitely an illegal play and get a judge to confirm. So just FYI y’all if you escape a card and pay the exile cost it moves immediately to the stack and cannot be targeted as if it was in the graveyard while the spell resolves.
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Jan 20, 2020 03:57
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It's like ol' standard staple Prognostic Sphinx Was Prognostic Sphinx ever really a standard staple? I remember it was great in block constructed but I never had it cast against me in a standard tournament. I did some looking and it performed well in a UB control deck at a standard PT after Aetherling rotated and before the UB / UW dragons dropped but outside of that and some 5-0 mtgo lists I don’t see anything? I did stumble across some MTG finance articles telling people to buy it because it will be a standard staple lol
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Jan 20, 2020 03:59
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Ohhh man, End of a real grindy game, i tymaret'd 2 cards out of my own graveyard to stay at 1 life versus WU fliers and when i went for the alpha strike on my turn that god damned labyrinth of skalhpos hosed my math up and i feel sooooo dumb.
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Jan 20, 2020 04:02
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StrugglingHoneybun posted:Ohhh man, That card led to my draw, it's dumb.
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Jan 20, 2020 04:16
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can i have ur old cards
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Jan 20, 2020 04:17
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https://twitter.com/traviswizard/status/1219089621931495424
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Jan 20, 2020 04:19
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Dehtraen posted:Was Prognostic Sphinx ever really a standard staple? I remember them like, working to their big deal card advantage, which was casting Dig Through Time and being like... Great?
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Jan 20, 2020 04:28
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Dehtraen posted:Was Prognostic Sphinx ever really a standard staple? I remember it was great in block constructed but I never had it cast against me in a standard tournament. I did some looking and it performed well in a UB control deck at a standard PT after Aetherling rotated and before the UB / UW dragons dropped but outside of that and some 5-0 mtgo lists I don’t see anything? I did stumble across some MTG finance articles telling people to buy it because it will be a standard staple lol It was big in block (lol) but never in standard.
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Jan 20, 2020 04:35
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It's worth than both Aetherling and Pearl Lake Ancient, it never really had a chance in either standard format. I think those articles come from speculating that it would be good post-rotation before PLA got spoiled.
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Jan 20, 2020 04:48
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