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Unless the second row folds flat or is captains chair setup I can't imagine wanting to wrestle with car sets in the 3rd.
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Jan 20, 2020 04:54
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I would rather ride in the hatch trunk than that 3rd row.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:20
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Finger Prince posted:Galaxy brain: if you never wash it, you never need to worry about how bad the paint is! Well it's like everything else, if you take care of it it'll last longer, look nicer and be worth more. Maintaining is cheaper and easier than replacing. Not washing the car ever will ruin the paint. The more expensive the car, the more people care.
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Jan 20, 2020 08:05
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MrOnBicycle posted:Well it's like everything else, if you take care of it it'll last longer, look nicer and be worth more. Maintaining is cheaper and easier than replacing. Not washing the car ever will ruin the paint. The more expensive the car, the more people care. Yeah I'm not fully serious about not washing ever, especially in the rust belt, but there's washing, and then there's bukkake snowfoam 7 stage ceramic paint correction and protection every 3rd week polish the top of the exhaust pipe with your cumrag weirdos out there (and I know a few) that's just like, you do that for you, not for some future value or next owner.
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Jan 20, 2020 15:00
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Triggerhappypilot posted:Yeah that's kind of par for the course for CUVs so i have a hard time faulting Tesla when the whole concept of a CUV with 3rd row seating is bad to begin with. Yeah, I have a Mazda5, and with the middle row seats set all the way back, that's about what it looks like. If you move them forward, you can get a workable amount of space for the back row. I can't tell fully from the Model Y photos, but it looks like the second row is pretty far back, so likely some space to spare. It's always going to be a trade off though. People here seem to be highly discounting the advantage of getting 3-4 kids carseats in a car though, it's a pretty big deal for us. Most cars have trouble getting any more than 2 car seats, very few can fit 3 abreast, in our Mazda, getting 1 or 2 seats in the third row, even for short trips is very handy, Also the 3 row list of cars is super limited without going minivan or giant SUV. The problem will likely be that fact that's is a bench, in the second row. You'll need to re-install seats in the second row to access the 3 row seats, due to the need to use the seatbelts to attach the seats.
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Jan 20, 2020 21:08
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MomJeans420 posted:I'm fascinated by how Tesla is essentially a religion for many reddit atheist types, the true believers are bigger fanatics than Apple fans You sound like a short seller. Enjoy your Ford product, nazi sympathizer, Elon Musk is too busy saving the planet to worry about a little lack of paint depth
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Jan 20, 2020 21:20
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Speaking of Ford, my wife is highly intrigued by the Mach E, will be interesting to see how that pans out. I've been trying to convince her to get an EV for her next vehicle since she spends almost $200 a month on gas. She hates hybrids so that was a failed attempt, but if I can get her to drive an EV it will sell her for sure.
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Jan 20, 2020 23:28
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I saw some Model 3s rolling into the outbound lot today with amber turn signals. They must be bound for Europe. I wonder how easy it is to swap a 3's red turn signal for an amber one? I'm also surprised they haven't lowered the Model 3's price to account for the lost tax credit - they usually do. It's possible they're waiting until the Y launches to gently caress with the price of the 3. Some rumors are floating that Y deliveries might start in a month or so, I look forward to all of the random QC issues, both the sea of legitimate ones and few weird "issues" from people who have never looked that closely at any other car. Model Y release drinking game:
If you're alive / sober by the time it's in showrooms, go test drive a cybertruck. Applebees Appetizer posted:Speaking of Ford, my wife is highly intrigued by the Mach E, will be interesting to see how that pans out. I've been trying to convince her to get an EV for her next vehicle since she spends almost $200 a month on gas. She hates hybrids so that was a failed attempt, but if I can get her to drive an EV it will sell her for sure. NGL the Mach E looks sweet. If there was better CCS coverage up near where my parents live, I'd be considering one. They're on some kWh limited income assistance energy plan so I can't really charge at their place to make up the difference.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:02
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Finger Prince posted:Yeah I'm not fully serious about not washing ever, especially in the rust belt, but there's washing, and then there's bukkake snowfoam 7 stage ceramic paint correction and protection every 3rd week polish the top of the exhaust pipe with your cumrag weirdos out there (and I know a few) that's just like, you do that for you, not for some future value or next owner. Yeah that's a hobby (and very rewarding/relaxing when you find the happy medium). When I get my new car I'm (hopefully lightly) polishing it and putting a ceramic coating on it so I'll save time on maintaining it. Might try putting on a PPF for the learning experience as well. I dislike snow foams. They do nothing and are one of the bigger jerkoff things in detailing.
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Jan 21, 2020 08:46
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Wait, what? Those words Finger Prince used are real things? I must be a complete Luddite with my water, detergent, and carnauba wax.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:48
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Awesome EV Spotted this weekend in Encinitas.  It's the EV West trashy van. I'm of a mind to find a Porsche 912 (2+2) and have them do a conversion. Yeah ... "OK, Boomer" and all of that.
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Jan 21, 2020 20:01
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The lighting and angle of the last photo make it look like it's a render from a Fallout game. I'm not necessarily a huge fan of classic cars, but I absolutely love seeing ev conversions of cars people love. It's very wholesome. 
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Jan 21, 2020 22:07
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VideoGameVet posted:I'm of a mind to find a Porsche 912 (2+2) and have them do a conversion. Nah, that's the way to get some folks to accept EVs more easily. I like the design of some of the EVs well enough, I suppose, but I love the styling of my '79 RX-7 and '70 Olds Cutlass, for example. Taking those and making them bothe more efficient and *faster*, while still looking like their vintage selves is fantastic. I think that there will be a decent market for conversions and re-powering as the components get (hopefully) cheaper and more ubiquitous, and reverse engineered/open sourced. Some enterprising company should do "crate" motor/controllers at a reasonable scale. EV West has some kits, and a lot of components, but still not quite what I mean. Their kits are very specific to a couple models (ACVWs). Something between the turn-key kits and individual components, like Ford's, Chrysler's, and GM's crate motor programs is what I'm talking about. There are a few one-offs, and customs, but not a lot for those that can work on stuff, but don't necessarily have a deep knowledge of EV drivetrains. I'm pretty sure it's coming, just not there yet. Right now, it's still way cheaper for me to use a gas engine in those cars, and I don't drive either enough to recoup the cost difference in fuel (though, admittedly, probably would drive more if they were EV, and therefore cheaper to operate/more reliable.)
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Jan 21, 2020 22:11
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I've been waiting for Subaru, seems odd that the oddball company wouldn't take to EVs. They're starting to come around, slooowly.quote:Tokyo, January 20, 2020 – Subaru Corporation today held a press briefing to discuss the future direction of its technology development efforts. https://www.media.subaru-global.com/en/news/2933
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Jan 21, 2020 22:29
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Ola posted:I've been waiting for Subaru, seems odd that the oddball company wouldn't take to EVs. They're starting to come around, slooowly. By 2030: Make at least 40% of Subaru global sales electric vehicles (EVs) or hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs). By the first half of the 2030s: Apply electrification technologies*3 to all Subaru vehicles*4 sold worldwide. The crosstrek hybrid is already a thing, so this is not so much a goal as an  . So in a decade they'll add it to an outback and a legacy and call it good.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:43
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Qwijib0 posted:
It's not very ambitious I agree, but it's at least 40% of sales, not 40% of the model lineup.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:48
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Darchangel posted:Nah, that's the way to get some folks to accept EVs more easily. I'd LOVE to turn my xB into an EV.....Hopefully conversions will become more prevalent and affordable in the future with DIY kits and all that.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:02
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Applebees Appetizer posted:I'd LOVE to turn my xB into an EV.....Hopefully conversions will become more prevalent and affordable in the future with DIY kits and all that. I'm mildly surprised that there isn't an xB (or equivalent - I guess Toyota, now?) EV or hybrid. My wife wants a Kia Soul, and I keep meaning to look at the Soul EV and see if it's any good. Would have to buy used though. Her college loan dept precludes a car payment for the next billion years or so.
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Jan 22, 2020 02:22
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Qwijib0 posted:
Seems like the Crosstrek PHEV at least is a compliance car at best. They're selling it in extremely limited numbers in CARB states only.
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Jan 22, 2020 03:11
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RIP Subaru. Also I could have sworn some company talked about an electric crate motor, including cooling - batteries sold separately. Not sure if they ever got around to it.
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Jan 22, 2020 03:13
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Ola posted:I've been waiting for Subaru, seems odd that the oddball company wouldn't take to EVs. They're starting to come around, slooowly. Wow about 10 years too late. I swear most Japanese manufacturers just don't get it and are missing the fact the EV train is leaving the station
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Jan 22, 2020 03:48
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Wow about 10 years too late. I swear most Japanese manufacturers just don't get it and are missing the fact the EV train is leaving the station Its not a demand in japan so why care?
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Jan 22, 2020 04:59
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If not for tax incentives and governments forcing manufacturers to make EVs through emissions standards, you'd see even fewer. They're not in demand for the general public, at least with the current prices and infrastructure.
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Jan 22, 2020 05:59
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Westy543 posted:RIP Subaru. Also I could have sworn some company talked about an electric crate motor, including cooling - batteries sold separately. Not sure if they ever got around to it. Check out the SEMA video from Rich Rebuilds, he talks to an indy mob doing that, and there was also an option from GM IIRC..
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Jan 22, 2020 06:51
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MomJeans420 posted:If not for tax incentives and governments forcing manufacturers to make EVs through emissions standards, you'd see even fewer. They're not in demand for the general public, at least with the current prices and infrastructure. Oh drat those evil governments trying to make cars pollute less. At what point is it admitted thats not true anymore? When you got 400000 Model 3s out there and Tesla struggling to keep up even before they release the Y its no longer government support or just a group of eco warriors. Its the general public beginning to latch on that EVs are good
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Jan 22, 2020 07:08
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I want an electric Miata.
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Jan 22, 2020 07:28
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Oh drat those evil governments trying to make cars pollute less. I don't even get what you're arguing here. Government action has increased demand for EVs through tax credits. That's not a moral statement, it's simply true. It doesn't mean that EVs arent otherwise desirable, but 7500 dollars in tax credits plus state level incentives is an electric car subsidy and it has certainly helped increase demand, which has driven development and made the cars better. It's pretty ridiculous to think that Japanese manufacturers have missed the market though. EVs are still a very small part of the overall car market and the first mover advantage isn't that important. Subaru (and Mazda) is a pretty small company that can't afford to dump a bunch of money into building cars that will lose them money right now. They don't have SV money to keep them afloat while they burn billions creating a product.
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Jan 22, 2020 08:50
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I don't even get what you're arguing here. Government action has increased demand for EVs through tax credits. That's not a moral statement, it's simply true. It doesn't mean that EVs arent otherwise desirable, but 7500 dollars in tax credits plus state level incentives is an electric car subsidy and it has certainly helped increase demand, which has driven development and made the cars better. It's no longer pushing demand, that was the point. And the thing about not desirable to the general public is just.... well... that's just not true anymore. quote:It's pretty ridiculous to think that Japanese manufacturers have missed the market though. EVs are still a very small part of the overall car market and the first mover advantage isn't that important. Subaru (and Mazda) is a pretty small company that can't afford to dump a bunch of money into building cars that will lose them money right now. They don't have SV money to keep them afloat while they burn billions creating a product. The time to jump is now, not in ten years. And do you really think they aren't already spending billions developing their next platforms now? (they are) Subaru's roadmap of 2030's is clearly missing the train. And Mazda's attempt? That's dead in the water with the silly specs they have come up with. Subaru moreover have Toyota money and tech to back them which frankly is a lot deeper of a pocket than even VC's so.... they can do a hell of a lot better. The Japanese have been caught flat footed trying to put out joke EV's that of course don't appeal to consumers (because they are jokes) while trying to make pretty much anything else work (fuel cells in particular). None of them have anything remotely interesting and they haven't just missed the first mover, they are laps behind FORD. They are even behind the Koreans and Chinese on this one. The car industry has huge lead times and right now they just dont have the pipeline to say more than Subaru's wishy washy half assed guesstimates. Meanwhile Europe are starting to release their EV ranges that are actually looking drat good, loving Ford have got the EVF150 coming soon and the Mach 1 - those two are gonna sell like crazy. Toyota's own statements pretty much indicate they have realized they have finally clicked they are behind and don't have anything, despite being the posterboy for hybrids. Meanwhile Tesla are now poised to become a mid tier manufacturer with a overlarge influence on what EV's are going to be... and despite what some people think, that's looking like it's the way it's going to be for the next few years.
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Jan 22, 2020 09:45
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:It's no longer pushing demand, that was the point. And the thing about not desirable to the general public is just.... well... that's just not true anymore. It absolutely increases demand. I'm strongly considering a Mach-E as my next car and the fact that its gonna be nearly 10k less than list price after incentives is not nothing. Like, there's a reason every full size truck in America has a bunch of money on the hood. As for the rest...Tesla has made about a million cars. That's 1/7th the number of registered vehicles just in the LA area. There are a loving huge number of gas cars out there that are still going to be out there in 5 years,10 years, more. It's going to take a long long time for electrics to become the dominant form of personal vehicle. Japan was late to the ICE market and Korea even later still but that didnt prevent them from being successful. There's no killer IP in a Tesla or Ford or Porsche EV right now that's going to make them wildly better in five or ten years than a Japanese or Korean one.
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Jan 22, 2020 10:32
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Wibla posted:I want an electric Miata. I mean yeah, me too, but current battery tech means it’ll be heavy as poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2020 13:21
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YOLOsubmarine posted:It absolutely increases demand. I'm strongly considering a Mach-E as my next car and the fact that its gonna be nearly 10k less than list price after incentives is not nothing. Like, there's a reason every full size truck in America has a bunch of money on the hood. Tesla does have a distinct IP advantage in their battery tech. Most estimates put them up to 5 years ahead of the competition. They are also starting to make their own, thus getting manufacturing experience with them as well, something basically no other car company has since they source their batteries from suppliers. Seeing as that's the real point if differentiation between EV's that's a pretty significant one.
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Jan 22, 2020 15:34
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priznat posted:Id like to get a 7 seater EV but lol thats ridiculous. Even kids are gonna be cramped as hell. Polestar 2 Edit* Huh, thought it was a 7 seater but it's just 5.
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Jan 22, 2020 15:40
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Chrysler Pacifica is basically the only option right now.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:03
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Most of the Japanese companies seem to be gambling that the EV tech will be out there for purchase when they need it. I hope they're correct.
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Jan 22, 2020 20:14
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Speleothing posted:Chrysler Pacifica is basically the only option right now. Anybody know when the 2021s come out? I thought I read somewhere they will have AWD and stowable seats, and I'm wondering if it's worth waiting to buy a minivan. Also curious if anyone has opinions on their reliability in general, hybrid cars scare me a little in terms of complexity.
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Jan 22, 2020 20:17
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I’m kind of concerned both by Chrysler reliability and the fact that all dealerships are almost entirely dodge ram service depots around here
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Jan 22, 2020 20:25
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Not a full EV, but I'm picking up our new Ford Escape Hybrid friday. I really would have loved to get a full EV, but my wife was adamant about not wanting to deal with plugs and wires in the garage while the kids are still in carseats, as just unloading them is enough hassle as it is. It's replacing her Elantra so it was her final call. Maybe I'll get to get a Mach-E in 5 years instead, when it's my turn to replace my dinosaur CR-V. Still pretty stoked to have a family travel car with 40+mpg.
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Jan 22, 2020 20:54
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Nitrousoxide posted:Tesla does have a distinct IP advantage in their battery tech. Most estimates put them up to 5 years ahead of the competition. They are also starting to make their own, thus getting manufacturing experience with them as well, something basically no other car company has since they source their batteries from suppliers. I dont really think it's possible to have a 5 year IP advantage in such a rapidly developing and changing field. Battery tech has used far beyond cars and will significant research and investment outside of the auto industry which will pay dividends within. Motors will be available from 3rd party suppliers. The only real place Tesla has IP that matters is around thermal management for their batteries which require different thermal management strategies because they use different battery chemistry than most other manufacturers. They are basically getting more density in exchange for additional heat and worse wear characteristics. That's useful in the short term but battery technology will likely look very different in 5 years and its questionable whether that IP will still be as useful if they move to a different battery type. Ford didnt start developing the Mach-E in earnest until 2017, and even then it was a very different car than its turned into. Assuming they meet their range and price targets it will be extremely competitive with the Model Y and 3, which seems to indicate that Tesla's secret sauce isn't all that important, if its replicable in about 3 years from a traditional auto maker.
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Jan 22, 2020 21:39
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Darchangel posted:I'm mildly surprised that there isn't an xB (or equivalent - I guess Toyota, now?) EV or hybrid. There isn't because Toyota has huge sunk costs in Fuel Cell cars and just now is realizing what a mistake that was. If there was a Prius BEV I'd buy it tomorrow. And it wouldn't be hard for Toyota to do that.
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Jan 22, 2020 22:42
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I dont really think it's possible to have a 5 year IP advantage in such a rapidly developing and changing field. Battery tech has used far beyond cars and will significant research and investment outside of the auto industry which will pay dividends within. Motors will be available from 3rd party suppliers. The only real place Tesla has IP that matters is around thermal management for their batteries which require different thermal management strategies because they use different battery chemistry than most other manufacturers. They are basically getting more density in exchange for additional heat and worse wear characteristics. Not to mention VW claims to have a solid-state battery for the 2025 models. I suspect Tesla will have this too, for the 1m mile battery. The key battery advantage for Tesla is that they are trending to a $100/kwh-capacity-installed cost.
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Jan 22, 2020 22:45
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