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THE MACHO MAN posted:My baseline for pushy people is a $10-15k raise from where I am now, and say I want to move up from that so you can always 'settle' and be okay. Quadruple that for pushy people. That's like a totally normal pay increase for a new job. If you think that's a really high salary for a recruiter demanding a number, you've been screwing yourself.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:33
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m0therfux0r posted:Quadruple that for pushy people. That's like a totally normal pay increase for a new job. If you think that's a really high salary for a recruiter demanding a number, you've been screwing yourself. I mean I lie and add about 15 to my current salary. And then Ask for a 10-15 raise to change jobs. It varies a bit because I’m looking for a few different job titles and occasionally contract work for the right price (even higher) but generally this is recurved well.
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Jan 20, 2020 01:16
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Lying about your current salary is usually not a good idea--especially bigger companies usually know or can easily look up your current salary--and also unnecessary when dealing with recruiters. Your current salary is irrelevant, you just say "I'm happy where I am and it would take $BIG_BUCKS to convince me to move."
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Jan 20, 2020 01:55
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If you're gonna lie, it's better to lie about an offer from another company rather than something documented somewhere.
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Jan 20, 2020 03:19
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Dik Hz posted:There's a weird fallacy where asking for more money makes you appear more valuable. Two employees with the same productivity, the higher paid one will be perceived as more valuable. It’s one of the ten weird fallacies that actually worked on behalf of the job seeker. Number six is the one that HR representatives really hate! But seriously. Don’t lie. Anchor high.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:44
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I agree, don't lie on your current compensation. It's verifiable info, even without contacting your current employer, and your bluff can get called without you knowing. As soon as you're caught out, your counterparty will lose most of their respect for you, you might no longer be their favored candidate, and you haven't gained anything that "My price is $X" wouldn't have gotten you. Never volunteer info you don't need to, but don't lie while you're establishing a relationship with someone you want to pay you multiple thousands of dollars a year. Wait a few weeks after you've started for that 
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Jan 20, 2020 16:11
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A company I'm looking at says this on their application form:quote:What is your desired salary for this role? (NA or Negotiable or "Market rate" are not sufficient answers.) Please include Base and Total Compensation * What do? 
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Jan 21, 2020 01:09
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If you're dead set on applying to them, figure out the highest number you can say out loud without flinching, then add 20%. But if this is how they treat people that haven't even applied yet, how will they treat you if you work there?
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Jan 21, 2020 01:26
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One million dollars.
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Jan 21, 2020 01:42
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One dollar. Then claim that you misunderstood the question
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Jan 21, 2020 01:43
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Dumb Lowtax posted:One dollar. Then claim that you misunderstood the question I've definitely put 0 in questions like this before and made it to the interview phase, YMMV.
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Jan 21, 2020 03:17
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Eric the Mauve posted:One million dollars. This is a good answer. I have used this and it works. Zero or one also works. The goons with seven figure plus incomes generally done have to name numbers either. I still hope to be in that group one day.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:46
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If the company knows what's good for them they'll take someone who knows how to spot negotiation tricks and not take the bait over someone who doesn't, and who will go on to make further dumb maneuvers for the rest of their time as their employee
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Jan 21, 2020 10:06
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Dumb Lowtax posted:If the company knows what's good for them they'll take someone who knows how to spot negotiation tricks and not take the bait over someone who doesn't, and who will go on to make further dumb maneuvers for the rest of their time as their employee Different companies need different things; if you're small you want multi-talented people, and some of them being talented negotiators will help you (for example, at least during hiring!) If you're a big soulless corporation that needs to just fit cogs into your inhumane machine then optimizing for cost instead of capability that you won't use anyway can be beneficial. (If you've read this thread this far, you probably don't need to work for a big soulless corporation that will fit you into their inhumane machine)
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Jan 21, 2020 19:29
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Suicide Watch posted:A company I'm looking at says this on their application form: "Top of the salary band." No idea if that's useful or not.
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Jan 23, 2020 04:07
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Not sure where else to post this, but here seems as good as any. Has anyone ever been told they were "afraid to take a step back to take a step forward"? First off, how do you interpret that? How much of a red flag is that?
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Jan 25, 2020 19:29
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Translation: “We’re looking for someone willing to be paid far less than they’re worth.”
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Jan 25, 2020 19:46
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That's how I read it, thanks for confirming. I asked around and most people I talked to had never heard of that before.
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Jan 25, 2020 19:57
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Mambo No. 5 posted:That's how I read it, thanks for confirming. I asked around and most people I talked to had never heard of that before. I also received some feedback recently about my "poor" interview performance. In this instance, "poor" means that I'm not saying yes to absolutely every question I'm being asked. I was given context for the feedback from a third party, who appreciates my honesty. I'm becoming more and more convinced that I need to move on from this organization, despite being told that my efforts have been noticed by the former CEO and the shareholders (no one else received this message at end of year to my knowledge). Sorry if this comes off as venty, I'm frustrated by circumstances and anxious about finding a new job. I am very thankful for finding this thread and all of the advice in the OP.
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Jan 25, 2020 20:11
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Interviewing for internal promotions is usually a massive waste of time and energy that is better spent seeking a different employer. In your case, having already done it for a while you've established it is definitely a waste. e: If it's known around your current company that you were in the former CEO's favor then the new CEO is probably going to view you as "[ex-CEO]'s guy" and never let you meaningfully advance
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Jan 25, 2020 21:03
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Eric the Mauve posted:Interviewing for internal promotions is usually a massive waste of time and energy that is better spent seeking a different employer. In your case, having already done it for a while you've established it is definitely a waste. I don't think it carries that much weight, we only have something like 60 employees in this hemisphere. I shook the guy's hand once, whereas I've had a beer and dinner with the new CEO. You're right though, this whole experience has taught me that I'm wasting my time.
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Jan 25, 2020 21:07
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I was just offered a job to be a Mechanical CAD Engineer, my interview was last Friday. I was caught off-guard because nothing has been solidly outlined yet. During my interview, when they asked why I had applied, I told them the truth and said that I had been calling businesses all over the city asking for vacancies. The interviewer referred to it as carpet bombing. The interesting situation comes from the fact that this job position didn't exist until I emailed them with my CV asking if they had any vacancies. Their lead designer wanted help with the workload and my CV happened to have the skills they were looking for. I went to meet the team during the interview and the lead designer made things much more clear for me in terms of job responsibility and day-to-day tasks I would be performing, whereas the guy conducting my interview kept trying to explain it to me but I couldn't understand what he was getting at. I meshed well with the team, and they told me that they had been planning on hiring an apprentice from college to do the job, but that was a few months down the line. I guess I just sped up the process. Anyway, they called me today and offered me the job and asked if I wanted to accept it and I said yes. They then asked me about the salary and said they were offering £22k. I told them honestly that I wasn't going to discuss a higher or lower salary and was happy to accept 22k (because I am desperate and scared and really can't afford not getting work), but feel now that in terms of BATNA I've screwed things up. The carpet bombing, my lack of experience, them knowing I've been job hunting for 6 months, it puts me in a weak position as they can probably tell I'm extremely desperate. I haven't received the job contract yet, though I am going to be contacted tomorrow and told a start date. Is there anything I can do to negotiate the salary or have I closed that door by saying I'll accept £22k? I was hoping to somehow broach the subject of doing 3 months probation and then being bumped up to a higher salary, but I have no idea what I should ask for. £25k is supposedly the median salary, but there's so much variation. Mechanical Engineers (which I am) get close to £30k, Creo designers get about the same. They're a family run business so should I just honestly tell them I have no idea what to ask for in terms of salary, or should I hit them with a ridiculous number like £35,000 and negotiate down? I feel like I'd get laughed at if I did that, especially considering I have zero work experience at all (even in customer service / entry level jobs). £30k a year seems like a fair valuation of my skills and what I could bring to the company. Qubee fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 18:53
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Qubee posted:I was just offered a job to be a Mechanical CAD Engineer, my interview was last Friday. I was caught off-guard because nothing has been solidly outlined yet. During my interview, when they asked why I had applied, I told them the truth and said that I had been calling businesses all over the city asking for vacancies. The interviewer referred to it as carpet bombing. The interesting situation comes from the fact that this job position didn't exist until I emailed them with my CV asking if they had any vacancies. Their lead designer wanted help with the workload and my CV happened to have the skills they were looking for. I went to meet the team during the interview and the lead designer made things much more clear for me in terms of job responsibility and day-to-day tasks I would be performing, whereas the guy conducting my interview kept trying to explain it to me but I couldn't understand what he was getting at. I meshed well with the team, and they told me that they had been planning on hiring an apprentice from college to do the job, but that was a few months down the line. I guess I just sped up the process.  ... Let me go ahead and spoil the fact that having entered this job on these terms it's going to be ages for you to be fairly compensated at this position, and you should be using this position and title in a reasonable time frame to negotiate for your next position where you're well paid. Otherwise what you're proposing is a 35% increase in salary having already shown a total lack of leverage or sophistication.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:09
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Qubee posted:I was just offered a job to be a Mechanical CAD Engineer, my interview was last Friday. I was caught off-guard because nothing has been solidly outlined yet. During my interview, when they asked why I had applied, I told them the truth and said that I had been calling businesses all over the city asking for vacancies. The interviewer referred to it as carpet bombing. The interesting situation comes from the fact that this job position didn't exist until I emailed them with my CV asking if they had any vacancies. Their lead designer wanted help with the workload and my CV happened to have the skills they were looking for. I went to meet the team during the interview and the lead designer made things much more clear for me in terms of job responsibility and day-to-day tasks I would be performing, whereas the guy conducting my interview kept trying to explain it to me but I couldn't understand what he was getting at. I meshed well with the team, and they told me that they had been planning on hiring an apprentice from college to do the job, but that was a few months down the line. I guess I just sped up the process. Congrats on getting a new job and no longer being unemployed! You need to do some homework before you're in a position to be helped. Your homework assignment is: Read this thread from OP to your post. While you are reading it, both focus on comprehension of the advice given (which you have demonstrated some good comprehension of already), AND think about the mindsets of the regulars in this thread. Pick ONE poster who has been a regular in this thread, and then write what you think their response to your post is. Post both the name of the poster you are going to emulate, and their response to your post, in this thread.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:36
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^^^ That seems like a put off but is actually good advice.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:54
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agreed but i don't think poster needs to read whole thread. 15-20 pages should do.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:39
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can we randomly choose posters to post as and follow the instructions also can zaurg as a horse be one of the posters
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Jan 27, 2020 21:48
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Qubee posted:I was just offered a job to be a Mechanical CAD Engineer, my interview was last Friday. I was caught off-guard because nothing has been solidly outlined yet. During my interview, when they asked why I had applied, I told them the truth and said that I had been calling businesses all over the city asking for vacancies. The interviewer referred to it as carpet bombing. The interesting situation comes from the fact that this job position didn't exist until I emailed them with my CV asking if they had any vacancies. Their lead designer wanted help with the workload and my CV happened to have the skills they were looking for. I went to meet the team during the interview and the lead designer made things much more clear for me in terms of job responsibility and day-to-day tasks I would be performing, whereas the guy conducting my interview kept trying to explain it to me but I couldn't understand what he was getting at. I meshed well with the team, and they told me that they had been planning on hiring an apprentice from college to do the job, but that was a few months down the line. I guess I just sped up the process. I don't want to beat you up too bad, but always negotiate, even when you're desperate. Negotiating makes you seem more valuable, even if you only ask for a couple extra thousand. You may think that if a company hires two guys to do the same job, one at 22k and one at 25k, they'll lay off the 25k guy before the 22k guy. That's wrong. They'll lay off the 22k guy because the 3k difference is insignificant to operations, and the 25k guy has higher perceived value. Also, if someone tries to punish you for negotiating, they're a complete rear end in a top hat who won't be any nicer to you when you're working for them. Even if you're completely desperate, a simple, "Thanks for the offer of 22k, but it appears the median salary for this position at my experience level is 25k. Can we make that work?" could be the easiest 3k/year you ever made. Don't make excuses or hem and haw or give ultimatums. Just ask politely. Also, read the negotiation thread. To add on, take the job, kill it for a year or two, make connections and learn how to work in a white collar environment. Then politely ask for a real salary or leave for a real salary with your experience and track record of performance. Strong lean towards leave for a lot of reasons that will become apparent as you read this thread. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 22:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:agreed but i don't think poster needs to read whole thread. 15-20 pages should do. In retrospect I agree. Read enough of the thread that you think you can post as a regular responding to your post. Or the whole thing. Whichever comes first.
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Jan 28, 2020 01:02
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Are you willing to lose the job entirely? Because normally gently caress any company that will punish you for negotiating, but in this case if I was hiring you I’d be extremely put off by you trying to reopen negotiations at this stage and would probably pull the offer. e: if 25k is the median salary, ask yourself if you, in your position of desperately needing a job and being pitched as an apprentice, should be paid above the median. Jordan7hm fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 04:13
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Jordan7hm posted:Are you willing to lose the job entirely? Pretty much this. I basically said this ship has sailed in the engineering thread. Take the job. Work hard and learn for 1-2 years and then go somewhere else.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:18
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Take the job and start interviewing for market rate positions elsewhere immediately.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:20
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Ultimate Mango posted:Take the job and start interviewing for market rate positions elsewhere immediately.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:25
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Sure. But I don't know why I am going to pay you the market rate (average) when you are right out of school for the position.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:30
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The assumption is the position is entry level?
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Jan 28, 2020 04:32
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Goodpancakes posted:The assumption is the position is entry level? Seems like. The poster said he himself had no job experience, ever: quote:I feel like I'd get laughed at if I did that, especially considering I have zero work experience at all (even in customer service / entry level jobs).
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Jan 28, 2020 04:46
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quote:considering I have zero work experience at all (even in customer service / entry level jobs). £30k a year seems like a fair valuation of my skills and what I could bring to the company. You've been looking for months and this was the first bite. Why do you think that? Yeah, it sounds like you could have gotten a bit more by negotiating better. Take that as a lesson for next time. You probably weren't going to get 30 though.
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Jan 28, 2020 05:16
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I appreciate all the advice. I've got a pay review in 6 months so I'm going to do my homework and read through this thread, and hopefully when it comes to negotiating I'll do a good job of it. Silver lining is I've got my foot in the door so the experience is definitely going to pay for itself down the line.
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Jan 29, 2020 14:08
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Qubee posted:I appreciate all the advice. I've got a pay review in 6 months so I'm going to do my homework and read through this thread, and hopefully when it comes to negotiating I'll do a good job of it. Silver lining is I've got my foot in the door so the experience is definitely going to pay for itself down the line.
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Jan 29, 2020 14:53
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Harsh reality is better than soft advice. Especially when it comes to stuff like this that's really important. Better to have it drilled in early than to make the mistake a few more times.
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Jan 29, 2020 14:54
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